Rising Values

[colombian_gringo]

There is an interesting article in the April 2015 issue of Grassroots Motorsports about the rising values of older enthusiast cars. They source the values from Hagerty Insurance and compare the values of specific cars in 2012 to 2014. The 1992 Mercedes Benz 500E is one that seems to have appreciated extremely well. I listed a few of the other notables as well. In a separate article they listed the Mercedes 190E 2.3-16 as a great buy that has the potential to appreciate.

Car 2012 Value 2014 Value

'92 Mercedes 500E $7,800 $36,700 (http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vbe=119008)

'88 BMW M3 $17,300 $44,000

'77 Porsche 911 Turbo $44,300 $130,000

'91 Acura NSX $29,700 $39,800

'88 BMW M5 $12,600 $20,200

'93 BMW M5 $13,500 $21,800

 

[Maui]

I have my 500E insured through Haggerty and just up'ed the agreed value to from $25,000 to $30,000 a few days ago. They indicated I could go as high as $45,000 for a concourse car.

I also did a little comparison just for curiosity sake.

1992 Camaro Z28: MSRP $21,230 Average value $13,496 Concourse value $26,000

1992 500E: MSRP $80,000 Average value $25,276 Concourse value $45,800

I find it striking that a Camaro Z28 appears to be a better investment than a 500E. The 1992 Camaro, which I have owned, is a piece of crap compared to a 1992 500E. The Camaro in concourse condition is worth more than it cost new while the 500E is worth about half of what it sold for.

Will the E500E ever be worth what it sold for new?

 

[captruff]

There is an interesting article in the April 2015 issue of Grassroots Motorsports about the rising values of older enthusiast cars. They source the values from Hagerty Insurance and compare the values of specific cars in 2012 to 2014. The 1992 Mercedes Benz 500E is one that seems to have appreciated extremely well. I listed a few of the other notables as well. In a separate article they listed the Mercedes 190E 2.3-16 as a great buy that has the potential to appreciate.


Car 2012 Value 2014 Value

'92 Mercedes 500E $7,800 $36,700 (http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vbe=119008)

'88 BMW M3 $17,300 $44,000

'77 Porsche 911 Turbo $44,300 $130,000

'91 Acura NSX $29,700 $39,800

'88 BMW M5 $12,600 $20,200

'93 BMW M5 $13,500 $21,800

I would really like to read the article about the 190E 2.3-16 So few of these are in good condition.

Jeff

 

[gsxr]

Will the E500E ever be worth what it sold for new?

Maybe it's just me... but I'd rather own/drive a Hagerty-condition-4 car (solid, reliable, etc) than a concours piece of crap. Sedans in general are not good investment cars, IMO. I'd love to do cross-country trips in an 036, can't say the same about the 92 Z28...

 

[Maui]

Certainly not advocating for the Camaro or putting down the E500E, just making an observation. Trust me you don't want to do a cross country trip in a 1992 Z28.

 

[maw1124]

Trust me you don't want to do a cross country trip in a 1992 Z28.

I don't want to go across town in a '92 Z28.

That said, I think we have to be careful of the mathematics, more for what they hide than for what they reveal. How much of the fact that the Z28 is now worth its MSRP is because the MSRP was so low to begin with? And how much of the "appreciation" spread between average and concourse has anything to do with value, really? Finally and most obviously, the whole American collector car market (Hagerty's market) seems skewed toward American cars to me -- Euros don't do well, Germans don't do well, sedans don't do well as a general matter.

But to answer your question, I think when (or if) a worldwide collector market emerges, then these cars will do better. Technology is helping that movement along. How many international AMG cars have we been looking at lately? Not so 10 years ago. But until then, not enough American car collectors even know the car exists, to really drive up demand (and prices).

Thanks for the data though.

Cheers,

maw

 

[600Eric]

I don't want to go across town in a '92 Z28.

 

[AMGTesTDriverNJ]

I would really like to read the article about the 190E 2.3-16 So few of these are in good condition.

Jeff

+1 on that. A lot of these are in terrible shape. Please do scan that article if you are able to. You might try this handy app called Genius Scan I use on my iPhone. Its free and easy. Thanks!

 

[gsxr]

I don't want to go across town in a '92 Z28.

I remember the 92's... unfortunately.

Now, a 2015 Z/28... sign me up! Although, apples to apples, a 2015 E63 S-model... hmmm... tough choice, but I'd take the E63 for street use. Might go for the Zee on a road course though.

 

[colombian_gringo]

Grassroots Motorsports 190E 2.3-16 article:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4Dq7P90cBSoVW1uSXlESkdxX0E/view?usp=sharing

 

[maw1124]

I remember the 92's... unfortunately.

Now, a 2015 Z/28... sign me up! Although, apples to apples, a 2015 E63 S-model... hmmm... tough choice, but I'd take the E63 for street use. Might go for the Zee on a road course though.

Look out for Top Gear tonight and tomorrow. I think they're comparing these very two.

maw

 

[gsxr]

Look out for Top Gear tonight and tomorrow. I think they're comparing these very two.

US or BBC version?

 

[maw1124]

Sorry Dave, that's a very old video. 2010. Different cars altogether.

Cheers,

maw

 

[Maui]

I remember the 92's... unfortunately.

Now, a 2015 Z/28... sign me up! Although, apples to apples, a 2015 E63 S-model... hmmm... tough choice, but I'd take the E63 for street use. Might go for the Zee on a road course though.

I would take the E63 S over the 2015 Z28 and I have driven neither. I do think the E63 will depreciate faster but it is the superior car by far. The dealer had one for sale when I bought the E550 but at $80,000 I had to say no, but I was tempted.

 

[emerydc8]

I find it striking that a Camaro Z28 appears to be a better investment than a 500E.

My '92 Z28 is my daily driver. I bought it new for about $18,000 in May 1992 and it probably has about 250,000 miles on it now. It is a completely different animal than a Mercedes. It's funny, though, that I get compliments on the Z just about every week. Even though it rides like a go-cart, it still puts a smile on my face when I step on it.

 

[maw1124]

What I always find interesting about this is how the appreciation curves tend to follow a similar pattern. I cite the Hagerty tool on the '88 BMW M3 (the notorious E30 that put that car on the map) and the '78 Porsche 911 Turbo, as examples. Basically flatline for the first 30 years, then huge jumps at 35 and 40 years, respectively. We would expect to see the same in our cars, except the first bump came sooner, at 20 years. I expect to see similar bumps at 25 years and 30 years. Based on "older" car examples, I would call this "buying ahead of the curve."

But yet I wonder if there's something deeper fueling this shift to the left in years for appreciation. Like, (1) we now have more available tools to track such activity (big data, internet of things); (2) which also means the market is larger and more connected, nationally and internationally (still more data and activity); and finally (3) the advent of leasing and "throw away" cars makes a 20 year old car today as special as a 30 year old car was yesterday. Hmmmm.

Obviously, the arc of these trends is long. But I wonder if that's in fact what we're seeing here -- an explainable trend, as opposed to (or in addition to) a special car -- through the 500E appreciation curve. Because if it is a trend, the term "modern classics" might go away in favor of "classics".

Worth a thought. Cheers,

maw

 

[gerryvz]

My '92 Z28 is my daily driver. I bought it new for about $18,000 in May 1992 and it probably has about 250,000 miles on it now. It is a completely different animal than a Mercedes. It's funny, though, that I get compliments on the Z just about every week. Even though it rides like a go-card, it still puts a smile on my face when I step on it.

A lot of bang for the buck there, no question.

I think the prices for them are just based on desirability among American audiences. More people are familiar with these cars because they had them or lusted after them back in the 1980s and early 1990s (my generation, basically) and thus the demand is significantly higher. People don't make decisions based on the quality of the car (look at the build quality of a Porsche 356, as an example of this ... not that great at all) they make decisions based on emotions and their experiences earlier in life.

In this country MBs were considered cars for the old, the rich and plutocrats back in the day, and the biggest cultural exposure that most people had to them was on "Miami Vice" back in the mid 1980s. Which is why pre-merger AMGs have become so lusted-after by a few folks. But in terms of what "average" American buyers want, it's really and honestly just not MBs and BMWs.

I do find it interesting that the muscle car craze is starting to cool down a bit, now that many the Baby Boomers are getting older and are getting more concerned with retirement, maintaining their health into their golden years, retirement finances, etc. I think in the coming 10-15 years we're going to see a HUGE drop of interest in muscle cars from the 1950s-early 1970s and we will see a rise in interest in cars like these F-body Camaros and Fireturds, and Fox-body Mustangs like the early GTs and SVOs, etc. These muscle cars from the 1960s and early 1970s will always be collectible because they are Americana, but I think the market is really going to cool down as the Baby Boom begins to decline and the Generation X and Y move into their prime money-making and success years where the Baby Boomers have been for the past 20 years.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[alabbasi]

I must say that the 500E is somewhat of a strange animal to me when it comes to value. While it certainly a desirable car with pedigree, and I expect to see nice low mileage examples sell for premium prices. I'm perplexed by the cars with 150+k miles and in mediocre condition that are selling, no..... offered at $15k or more.

As some have already indicated, these cars need a minimum of $5k in differed maintenance and for that kind of money, you can buy you an W211 E55k in good shape with under 100k miles all day and all night.

 

[gerryvz]

I agree Al. I think many sellers (perhaps propelled a bit by this forum and various price guides out there) have over-inflated ideas of prices for these cars, thinking they are highly collectable "neo-premerger AMG" models. But you remember what happened about 5-7 years ago with the 6.3 market .... after many years of relative stagnation, it started climbing all of the sudden, and MB started cashing in on the "Rote Sau 6.8" nostalgia craze and some PR for the 6.3 to amplify values.

The 500E is going to be very very analogous to the 300SEL 6.3 in terms of price trends. It's got quite a ways to go before values start really climbing. Meanwhile the condition of many cars is going to deteriorate, along with prices. Some cars will be maintained, and a few will be restored, and far fewer preserved in near-perfect shape.

But no matter what, and I've said this since the get-go ... the appeal of the 500E is ALWAYS going to be limited for the simple fact that it has four doors. Look at the prices of 111/112 convertibles (particularly the M116-based models) over the 6.3 from the same era. Oy !!! Even the "pedestrian" 111 coupes are fetching higher bucks than 6.3s are.

I know that a lot of folks just don't have much interest in the 55 AMG 211 and 210 models though. Including me. There's more to the 500E than just going fast ... if that's all that is desired than I agree a 211 E55 is a great buy (I do have a soft spot for an AMG C63 though....that's the ONLY modern car on my bucket list).

 

[gsxr]

My '92 Z28 is my daily driver. I bought it new for about $18,000 in May 1992 and it probably has about 250,000 miles on it now. It is a completely different animal than a Mercedes. It's funny, though, that I get compliments on the Z just about every week. Even though it rides like a go-card, it still puts a smile on my face when I step on it.

Jon, that engine bay looks decidedly non-stock. What kind of power is it making now? I remember in stock form they were not bad compared to other US cars, but nowhere near M119 levels. Do you have the 305 or the 350?

 

[KarlC]

There is an interesting article in the April 2015 issue of Grassroots Motorsports about the rising values of older enthusiast cars. They source the values from Hagerty Insurance and compare the values of specific cars in 2012 to 2014. The 1992 Mercedes Benz 500E is one that seems to have appreciated extremely well. I listed a few of the other notables as well. In a separate article they listed the Mercedes 190E 2.3-16 as a great buy that has the potential to appreciate.

Car 2012 Value 2014 Value

'92 Mercedes 500E $7,800 $36,700 (http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vbe=119008)

They have them all, 92, 93, 94, at the Value even a 95 Limited Edition

 

[alabbasi]

But no matter what, and I've said this since the get-go ... the appeal of the 500E is ALWAYS going to be limited for the simple fact that it has four doors. Look at the prices of 111/112 convertibles (particularly the M116-based models) over the 6.3 from the same era. Oy !!! Even the "pedestrian" 111 coupes are fetching higher bucks than 6.3s are.

Totally agree, the 500E seems to be appreciating unlike any other Mercedes Benz sedan, more like a coupe or convertible (certainly better then any R129). I have two medioucre 6.3's. If I could get $15k for each of them, I'd be doing the happy dance.

 

[txbrit]

I agree Al. I think many sellers (perhaps propelled a bit by this forum and various price guides out there) have over-inflated ideas of prices for these cars, thinking they are highly collectable "neo-premerger AMG" models.

I think a lot of recent prices have been down to a combination of the MBCC Car - although I notice the $45K+ cars are thin on the ground right now - AND people reading the Wikipedia Article and going ZOMG! Porsche! 18 Days to build! Wolf in Sheep's Clothing!

But no matter what, and I've said this since the get-go ... the appeal of the 500E is ALWAYS going to be limited for the simple fact that it has four doors.

Not only this, MB did too good a job of making the 500E, the 6.3 and the 6.9 similar to the rest of their respective model lines - at the end of the day a lot of drivers want everyone to know they have the bigger, more powerful, top of the range model and a simple badge on the back isn't going to do.

As for convertibles - I can't speak to Mercedes, but the Soft Top MG's and Triumphs were priced lower new than their hard top counterparts

Call it Vanity :-D

I know that a lot of folks just don't have much interest in the 55 AMG 211 and 210 models though. Including me. There's more to the 500E than just going fast ... if that's all that is desired than I agree a 211 E55 is a great buy (I do have a soft spot for an AMG C63 though....that's the ONLY modern car on my bucket list).

To me its a simple case of Build Quality - when I was looking for what became my 500E, I was looking at W211's, I lost count of how many I looked at, coast to coast. I am not THAT picky, but I never found a 211 I was happy with and I certainly did not feel they were as well put together. I drive my 500E almost everyday at the moment and for me its still better engineered than anything put out by Mercedes since.

 

[600Eric]

...and the biggest cultural exposure that most people had to them was on "Miami Vice" back in the mid 1980s. Which is why pre-merger AMGs have become so lusted-after by a few folks.

Yep I am definitley one of those people

I do find it interesting that the muscle car craze is starting to cool down a bit, now that many the Baby Boomers are getting older and are getting more concerned with retirement, maintaining their health into their golden years, retirement finances, etc. I think in the coming 10-15 years we're going to see a HUGE drop of interest in muscle cars from the 1950s-early 1970s and we will see a rise in interest in cars like these F-body Camaros and Fireturds, and Fox-body Mustangs like the early GTs and SVOs, etc. These muscle cars from the 1960s and early 1970s will always be collectible because they are Americana, but I think the market is really going to cool down as the Baby Boom begins to decline and the Generation X and Y move into their prime money-making and success years where the Baby Boomers have been for the past 20 years.

I agree with this theory 100%. Although I think the Blue chip 60's - Very Early 70' very rare / low production number cars (Ex. Shelby Anything, COPO & Yenko Camaros, Hemi-Cudas, Etc.) will always hold their value I too think the majority of that muscle car market will cool off considerably in the near future for exactly the reasons Gerry has stated.

 

[gerryvz]

Yes, the small-volume stuff will always be huge interest because of rarity, but your "typical" Goats, Mustangs, 350 Novas and even RoadRunners and the like are going to cool down.

Honestly, they are just not great cars to really drive hard and enjoy. They're more of a "cruise" and "be seen in" type of car for stoplight drag races. I do love the aftermarket and ease of working on them, though. And the muscle cars are very accessible/affordable for a BROAD range of folks of various incomes and all walks of life. So it's a very "democratized" thing, which is cool.

The whole "Cruise-in" scene is huge down here in Texas - people show up in their Deuces and 1964.5 Mustangs and 57 Chevys. But these aren't folks who are in their 30s and 40s like me. These are near-geriatric folks with wavy/long gray hair, beer guts, and big mustaches wearing "Harley of Houston" and "Rat Fink" T-shirts.

 

[gerryvz]

Totally agree, the 500E seems to be appreciating unlike any other Mercedes Benz sedan,

I don't think they're appreciating as much as folks think they are ... and they are definitely NOT appreciating like 111 coupes (even the 6-cylinder models). At some point I think the SECs and even the 124 coupes/cabs will become more collectible than the E500E and 2.3-16s simply because they have two doors and/or drop-tops. It's going to take some time though...that's all it is, just time.

 

[Klink]

I think a lot of recent prices have been down to a combination of the MBCC Car - although I notice the $45K+ cars are thin on the ground right now - AND people reading the Wikipedia Article and going ZOMG! Porsche! 18 Days to build! Wolf in Sheep's Clothing!

Bingo was his name-o!!!

While those of us "in the know" do not overplay Porsche connection, I am absolutely certain that the current Porsche madness has been a, if not THE major factor attracting attention to these cars, and driving a significant portion of the recent rocketing of asking prices. THAT is what has caused people to take some notice, do some research and then publish this recent spate of "future classic" articles, etc. By extension, people researching.036 are now discovering the M100 cars, 4 valve 190s, and so on. I'm not by any means saying that these cars did not have great intrinsic value, I'm just saying it's the P thing that has caused people to do research and then write about them to the point where countless "car guys" as opposed to a tiny subset of "marque fetishists" like us now know about them. Now add to that the current "hard asset / collectibles" chase driven by recent economic factors, or at least common perceptions about those economic factors, and you have the recipe for what we've got on these price charts. And yes, I still think there is an enormous gaping chasm between ask prices of these excellent condition vehicles, and what they actually sell for, if they ever actually sell at all, which is something else that I am convinced they don't actually do...

 

[Ntrepid]

I wish there was a forum like this one for the 2.3-16v. I have a '86 US automatic (rare I'm told as only 75 were made in the 2 years it was imported) with heated seats (a custom option not offered. It would be great to get some help as well as sourcing of parts.


Robert

 

[colombian_gringo]

I think the internet and youtube have been instrumental in propelling the values of specific cars. DRIVE, Jay Leno's Garage, Petrolicious, Jalopnik, Magnus Walker, German Cars For Sale Blog, Bring a Trailer, etc. They sensationalize specific cars and their values escalate.

I've seen Mike Spinelli and the guys from Classic Car Club Manhattan do multiple episodes on DRIVE about what cars to buy now before they go up. The week after those episodes those cars mentioned are then selling a premium.

 

[gerryvz]

I wish there was a forum like this one for the 2.3-16v. I have a '86 US automatic (rare I'm told as only 75 were made in the 2 years it was imported) with heated seats (a custom option not offered. It would be great to get some help as well as sourcing of parts.


Robert

Why don't you start a forum? It's not hard. The phpBB forum software is free, and easy to use. You just get a hoster (say for $40-50 a year) and install the software, and away you go. Advertise your specialist forum on a few other forums and then focus on having good discussions and posting quality information, and you're rockin' and rollin'. It takes about 2-3 years to start hitting critical mass though -- for folks to discover the site, for the search engines to index it thoroughly, and so forth. But the 2.3-16 community is specialized enough that you SHOULD start your own forum !!

 

[captruff]

I wish there was a forum like this one for the 2.3-16v. I have a '86 US automatic (rare I'm told as only 75 were made in the 2 years it was imported) with heated seats (a custom option not offered. It would be great to get some help as well as sourcing of parts.


Robert

Robert:


There were technically only 3 options for the NAM 16Vs*

1. heated seats
2. rear headrests
3. automatic transmission which was available at no extra cost

*leather, AC and the sunroof were non deletable options

Not certain about the production numbers for the automatic 16Vs, but I have parted out at least 4 automatics

Jeff

 

[emerydc8]

Jon, that engine bay looks decidedly non-stock.

I could never find out how much power mine had because I never put it on a dyno, but IIRC the Granatelli group at Paxton published figures for the 5.7L with the 7 psi boost at around 360 HP (I think the stock torque is already close to that) and a 12.1 second 1/4 mile.

I installed a Thrush CVX exhaust and Edelbrock tubular headers too (changing plug wires every few years now because of it). In 1994 I had Paxton modify the impeller on the blower to bring it up to 11 pounds of boost. The compression ratio was already high, so adding 11 PSI to the intake caused all kinds of bad problems. I had to hook a sensor up to my intake manifold that turned on the windshield washer reservoir motor and sprayed water directly into the intake (you can see the hose). Also, I had an MSD Boost Timing Retard that would retard the time as a function of boost, just to keep the engine from detonating. The 5.0 L mustangs dealt with the Paxton so much better than the Camaros. All they had to do was get a bigger fuel pump.

When I had the blower on the car, there was nothing that I ran across (willing to race me) that could beat it. I have since sold the blower after shattering two input clutch housings inside of a few months. Changing transmissions gets old and I got tired of spending every day working on the car. It just wasn't designed for that kind of HP. I had to replace the transmission mount almost every few weeks, sometimes sooner. I could hear the tail housing break away from the mount and hit the bottom of the transmission tunnel, usually when it downshifted from third to second at WOT.

 

[gerryvz]

Dang! Ouch !!

 

[alabbasi]

To me its a simple case of Build Quality - when I was looking for what became my 500E, I was looking at W211's, I lost count of how many I looked at, coast to coast. I am not THAT picky, but I never found a 211 I was happy with and I certainly did not feel they were as well put together. I drive my 500E almost everyday at the moment and for me its still better engineered than anything put out by Mercedes since.

Built quality is kind of a hot topic for me as I think a lot of people mistake the heaviness of an older Mercedes with quality. Just recently, I moved shops and had to cart off a bunch of sheet metal parts. Loading 107, 126 and 116 doors is back breaking work as they're about 3 times as heavy as the spare 210 door that I have. I don't think however that a 210 is a lower quality vehicle as I've owned that body style for 12 years consecutively and they've been super reliable. They are most certainly lighter and it is noticeable, but not because of any cost cutting measures.

I ran across a review that indicated that a C215 CL500 is about 700lbs lighter then the C140 it replaced, unlikely to be solely due to cost cutting even though the W140 was massively over engineered.

The odd thing about the 500E's is that even salvage prices are through the roof. The last 500E that I saw go through the salvage auction in Dallas was blasted beyond any economical repair and yet managed to bring a silly price during the pre-bid.

Too much money for a parts car.

 

[Klink]

Built quality is kind of a hot topic for me as I think a lot of people mistake the heaviness of an older Mercedes with quality. Just recently, I moved shops and had to cart off a bunch of sheet metal parts. Loading 107, 126 and 116 doors is back breaking work as they're about 3 times as heavy as the spare 210 door that I have. I don't think however that a 210 is a lower quality vehicle as I've owned that body style for 12 years consecutively and they've been super reliable. They are most certainly lighter and it is noticeable, but not because of any cost cutting measures.

I ran across a review that indicated that a C215 CL500 is about 700lbs lighter then the C140 it replaced, unlikely to be solely due to cost cutting even though the W140 was massively over engineered.

The odd thing about the 500E's is that even salvage prices are through the roof. The last 500E that I saw go through the salvage auction in Dallas was blasted beyond any economical repair and yet managed to bring a silly price during the pre-bid.

Too much money for a parts car.

That is a fascinating topic for me too, Ali, and that was an absolutely epic post. A homerun of actual experience based truth, with the bases loaded.

 

[txbrit]

Built quality is kind of a hot topic for me as I think a lot of people mistake the heaviness of an older Mercedes with quality. Just recently, I moved shops and had to cart off a bunch of sheet metal parts. Loading 107, 126 and 116 doors is back breaking work as they're about 3 times as heavy as the spare 210 door that I have. I don't think however that a 210 is a lower quality vehicle as I've owned that body style for 12 years consecutively and they've been super reliable. They are most certainly lighter and it is noticeable, but not because of any cost cutting measures.

I ran across a review that indicated that a C215 CL500 is about 700lbs lighter then the C140 it replaced, unlikely to be solely due to cost cutting even though the W140 was massively over engineered.

The odd thing about the 500E's is that even salvage prices are through the roof. The last 500E that I saw go through the salvage auction in Dallas was blasted beyond any economical repair and yet managed to bring a silly price during the pre-bid.

Too much money for a parts car.

I didn't mention the 210 - the 210 just isn't my cup of tea, although I will concur they also seem to last to intergalactic mileages similar to a w124.

Indeed I had a relation who loved their E320 - and I have had 2 cars with the M112 that we covered a combined 250,000 miles in.

But funnily enough i wasn't thinking about the exterior and/or the "Bank Vault" door shut – more the integrity of the interior – no wear, rattles, shakes or squeaks, everything electrical works as it should, the switch feel, for want of a better term.

That was something I never found on any 211 I looked at.

 

[gerryvz]

Build quality is a very, very subjective term. In my view, it has multiple dimensions, not just one. I realize that many folks if not most folks here will not agree with what I say below.

I have always tended to think of "build quality" in terms of the following dimensions:

• Quality of materials used: plastics, leather, thickness of metal. Do the materials wear well? Are they long lasting and solid to the touch?
• Assembly: Is the assembly of the components (inside and outside) precise? Are the panel gaps (inside and outside) between components even? Are there burrs or other obvious visual defects where things are mis-aligned? Do parts fall off easily or components come apart with very little use/wear? Do welds and joints look of high quality and are made with care?
• "Feel" of components: Do doors close solidly and have a solid heft? Do interior components feel flimsy or have visual waves or imperfections? Do plastic exterior components line up with their metal neighbors?
• Defects: Does the car have a lot of initial defects based on poor assembly or overlooked steps that require trips back to the dealer in the first 10-20,000 miles to fix? Do rattles and squeaks appear on the interior quickly?
• Component quality & operation: Do the components and sub-assemblies come from quality suppliers? Do they fit and work together well? Does operating the car's switches, dials, levers and controls provide positive, solid feedback rather than flimsy, non-feedback?

 

[gsxr]

But funnily enough i wasn't thinking about the exterior and/or the "Bank Vault" door shut – more the integrity of the interior – no wear, rattles, shakes or squeaks, everything electrical works as it should, the switch feel, for want of a better term.

That was something I never found on any 211 I looked at.

I haven't looked at any 211 chassis yet... but my 210 fits the wear/rattle/shake description. IMO the W210 is closer to a hotel in-bathroom mini-safe, compared to the W124/W140/W126 as Fort Knox.

 

[Klink]

I haven't looked at any 211 chassis yet... but my 210 fits the wear/rattle/shake description. IMO the W210 is closer to a hotel in-bathroom mini-safe, compared to the W124/W140/W126 as Fort Knox.

Well, I suppose that's better than a mini-fridge...

 

[alabbasi]

I have always tended to think of "build quality" in terms of the following dimensions:

• Quality of materials used: plastics, leather, thickness of metal. Do the materials wear well? Are they long lasting and solid to the touch?

Maybe...Higher quality materials tend to be more fragile and deteriorate quickly if neglected. This is not typically seen on coveted cars like Rolls Royce or Bentley's but common on examples like Jaguars and Porsche 928's.

A 928 with full leather interior that sat out in the sun all it's life is a sad sight. My 99 Chevy 3/4 ton on the other hand looks as bad today as it did when it rolled out of the factory

 

[gsxr]

Well, I suppose that's better than a mini-fridge...

I believe that would be the A-class.

 

[gerryvz]

Don't knock the A-Class. I've spent some serious seat time in them (including driving from Munich up to Belgium and back, and from southern Germany into Poland and back on another trip) and they are not bad for what they are. I'd rather drive one of those than a generic Toy-ota or Chivy econo-fridge.

 

[Klink]

I believe that would be the A-class.

Mit klima!
Canadian version is the Eh-class...

 

[Klink]

Don't knock the A-Class. I've spent some serious seat time in them (including driving from Munich up to Belgium and back) and they are not bad for what they are. I'd rather drive one of those than a generic Toy-ota or Chivy econo-fridge.

I'd sure rather experience a collision from inside an A-class than in any of its "competitors"...

 

[gerryvz]

Mit klima!
Canadian version is the Eh-class...

Obviously, Klink, gsxr's never seen/driven a Brabus or Väth A-Klasse.....

 

[Klink]

Or the twin engine 168s that I actually saw while visiting AMG

http://www.oocities.org/motorcity/speedway/5350/atwin.htm

 

[alabbasi]

Obviously, Klink, gsxr's never seen/driven a Brabus or Väth A-Klasse.....

If that's the new A class it's pretty neat. The only ones look like minivans

 

[gerryvz]

Yes those are the new A-Class models and replace the small funky old city cars. These things are selling like HOTCAKES in the Fatherland.


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[alabbasi]

I can see why, they'll compete well with the GTI/A3 and up market Ford Focus. I'm guessing that their front wheel drive?

 

[emerydc8]

I have always tended to think of "build quality" in terms of the following dimensions:

Quality of materials used: . . .

Assembly: . . .

"Feel" of components: . . .

Defects: . . .

Component quality & operation: . . . .

Wow, Gerry. You sure put a lot of thought into this stuff! Are you sure you didn't clerk for a judge at some point in your career? This looks like every court opinion I've ever read where the judge comes up with some five-pronged balancing test to justify ruling for a position that he already made long before applying the "test." Impressive.