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Sorry guys. I meant Smart... the A-class is a medium-size fridge.
Smart is the mini-fridge... or maybe a foam cooler?
Robert:
There were technically only 3 options for the NAM 16Vs*
1. heated seats
2. rear headrests
3. automatic transmission which was available at no extra cost
*leather, AC and the sunroof were non deletable options
Not certain about the production numbers for the automatic 16Vs, but I have parted out at least 4 automatics
Jeff
Obviously, Klink, gsxr's never seen/driven a Brabus or Väth A-Klasse.....
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I can see why, they'll compete well with the GTI/A3 and up market Ford Focus. I'm guessing that their front wheel drive?
Don't knock the A-Class. I've spent some serious seat time in them (including driving from Munich up to Belgium and back, and from southern Germany into Poland and back on another trip) and they are not bad for what they are. I'd rather drive one of those than a generic Toy-ota or Chivy econo-fridge.
I wish there was a forum like this one for the 2.3-16v. I have a '86 US automatic (rare I'm told as only 75 were made in the 2 years it was imported) with heated seats (a custom option not offered. It would be great to get some help as well as sourcing of parts.
Robert
One of my mechanic friends in Sarasota (old school track guy), who used to drive a 190E Cosworth back in the day bought a CLA 45 -- the car blew my mind, again "for what it is." Definitely on the radar if you like smaller performance cars.
maw
... but my 210 fits the wear/rattle/shake description. IMO the W210 is closer to a hotel in-bathroom mini-safe
Sorry guys. I meant Smart... the A-class is a medium-size fridge.
Smart is the mini-fridge... or maybe a foam cooler?
![]()
No love for poor W210....
I know right?! Funny. They give zero fuxxx about modern Benzes around here. I cringe when I mention my S55 cuz it's a "cheap" W220.
maw
I give that an 8.4Oh man, you are petting my peeve there! The "anything newer than the particular car I own is garbage" peeve. It's like I have pointed out before, most of us here are bat shit goofy over 124s, and I very much include myself in that "goofy" group, but I know other older car people that wouldn't own one of these plastic bumpered, plastic radiatored, plastic interiored pieces of crap if you handed him one free of charge. Seriously!
I was an employee at the dealer watching the first 124 roll off of the truck in late '95, and except for that idiot Klink, oh wait, that's me, just about everyone present attempted to outdo everyone else, as if they were in a contest to see who could come up with the most derisive comments.
There is a cult around 190's now, as well there should be. Its chassis engineering represented a complete breakthrough not even possible before their were Cray supercomputers to crunch the math. Yet it was commonly thought of as the worst possible thing ever, designed only to cater to noobs and boobs that had no idea what a Mercedes Benz should be.
I've had an "expert" show me and tell me that a Ponton was the last real Mercedes-Benz as he went between his round body 190 and his fintail 190 and pointed out to me how he could not flex the bumpers on the ponton with his bare hands, but he could on the finnie, the true usefulness of bumpers relative to energy absorbing crumple zones be damned.
I've got an older friend that truly is an MB expert, and was a fabulous mechanical mentor, and I remember him absolutely having a cow upon seeing the power seat switches as the first 126 was coming off the truck. Upon seeing the plastic radiator, exactly like in that "garbage" 123, he was done with it. The 126 and 124 are his favorite MBs today, and yes, they are the last ones that were "worth a damn".
I have a similarly minded older friend and mentor up north, and just a couple of years ago he got his first 210 station wagon. He loves it. But he is having absolutely no truck with that "crap 220 or 211", that's for sure.
I've said it before, and I will say it again: If I live long enough I am going to hear some "expert" say that the CLA was the last MB that didn't suck, as he elaborates, "That was when they knew how to make a good electric steering rack!" He will be impressing himself, and mistakenly thinking that he is impressing me with that observation...
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I give that an 8.4
Oh man, you are petting my peeve there! The "anything newer than the particular car I own is garbage" peeve. It's like I have pointed out before, most of us here are bat shit goofy over 124s, and I very much include myself in that "goofy" group, but I know other older car people that wouldn't own one of these plastic bumpered, plastic radiatored, plastic interiored pieces of crap if you handed him one free of charge. Seriously!
I was an employee at the dealer watching the first 124 roll off of the truck in late '95, and except for that idiot Klink, oh wait, that's me, just about everyone present attempted to outdo everyone else, as if they were in a contest to see who could come up with the most derisive comments.
There is a cult around 190's now, as well there should be. Its chassis engineering represented a complete breakthrough not even possible before their were Cray supercomputers to crunch the math. Yet it was commonly thought of as the worst possible thing ever, designed only to cater to noobs and boobs that had no idea what a Mercedes Benz should be.
I've had an "expert" show me and tell me that a Ponton was the last real Mercedes-Benz as he went between his round body 190 and his fintail 190 and pointed out to me how he could not flex the bumpers on the ponton with his bare hands, but he could on the finnie, the true usefulness of bumpers relative to energy absorbing crumple zones be damned.
I've got an older friend that truly is an MB expert, and was a fabulous mechanical mentor, and I remember him absolutely having a cow upon seeing the power seat switches as the first 126 was coming off the truck. Upon seeing the plastic radiator, exactly like in that "garbage" 123, he was done with it. The 126 and 124 are his favorite MBs today, and yes, they are the last ones that were "worth a damn".
I have a similarly minded older friend and mentor up north, and just a couple of years ago he got his first 210 station wagon. He loves it. But he is having absolutely no truck with that "crap 220 or 211", that's for sure.
I've said it before, and I will say it again: If I live long enough I am going to hear some "expert" say that the CLA was the last MB that didn't suck, as he elaborates, "That was when they knew how to make a good electric steering rack!" He will be impressing himself, and mistakenly thinking that he is impressing me with that observation...
![]()
No love for poor W210....
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Thanks Ken. I know the W210's don't get a lot of love and trust me I hear it from both Captruff and Matt who like a lot of MB mechanics believes the W124 was the highwater mark for Benz. That said the more I'm seeing and learning about these cars through my current 500E restoration it would definitely be pretty tough to argue against that perspective. However even with that being the case I just still like W210's, always have. In addition I love the OM606 turbo, it makes for a great driver and unlike most "normal" people I like all the clatter it makes. Anyways just my 2 cents....I love yours. The car looks amazing and had me wanting one.
Needs a little work as to flow, it's a bit "jumpy" and would have been better to start out with the 190s/Finnies, then progress to the 123, then 126, then 190 and then 124. But not bad.
It's not that I think other models are not as good, it's simply that they do nothing for me, design-wise.
I never miss a chance to bust Jeff's balls about 210's because for a guy who is also not a big fan of them he arguably has not one but two of the rarest (and probably most expensive) examples in the country. [emoji38]
I know the W210's don't get a lot of love and trust me I hear it from both Captruff and Matt In addition I love the OM606 turbo, it makes for a great driver and unlike most "normal" people I like all the clatter it makes. Anyways just my 2 cents....
[emoji38]
No love for poor W210....
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...Did I mention that they are big?
I love yours. The car looks amazing and had me wanting one.
I would love to own yours Eric. I was shocked how nice it looked.
Then, there is my personal fave of 210s, the wagons. So big, comfortable, and versatile. Tracks like a laser and pounds any highway flat at extra legal speeds, yet it never feels lumpish or heavy, and under those conditions it still returns mileages on premium in the high twenties. It also reaches the automotive ideal of feeling and behaving the same in any condition of load or speed. Did I mention that they are big? Out of the 6 current cars in the fleet (I know, I know...), it's the first one we grab for almost any use.
I'd love me some 210 E55 wagon!! Watched them being assembled in late '97. I may build one in the future, as it's an almost 100 percent bolt on, minimal modification job.
If I had to buy a 210, it would be the exact turb'diesel model that you own, 600Eric.
IMHO the E55 AMG W210 is nothing special. There was no special engineering that went into it like was done with the .036. It's a "bolt on parts" special. And I've mentioned it before, but I actually saw an E55 210 in Belgium that was on its THIRD M113 because the previous two engines had failed. How many 500Es out there do you see on their third engine?
We all like to be nostalgic about our cars, but progress is a reality. The W210 E55 is a beast of a car that's very easily to live with daily. The AMG 5.4 engine is special in itself and it's what makes the car. It's hugely powerful and even though I love the M119, there is no doubt that M113 is a far more reliable motor as I've had zero trouble with my E55 mechanically.
It may not do anything for you, but given that the design is 10 years newer then the 124, it going to be a better car, as the 211 betters it and a 212 betters the 211.
Unfortunately there's not much love for 202s/208s/210s and early 203s/209s due to rust issues. And that's the stigma especially here in the UK. The AMG variants of such series are probably the only ones that are worth a drive and owning nowadays (forgive me, I'm talking UK/Euro trend here) since other pedestrian models have rusted away and no real value. Certainly these late 90s AMGs , 55s/32s the like, are best bang for buck, or a lot of car for the money as we say , if you want an entertaining drive and easy to live with. A well maintained AMG55 is worth just about the same as GVZ's deferred maintenance cost on a 036, so to me they make nice DDs , left on the street and not worry about it too much type of semi high performance car.
My CLK55 is starting to show a bit of rust spots here and there but I'm not overly concerned as it will never be a collector IMO, and as Al says "it's the 5.4 what makes the car itself" , for me anyway. Plus I'm not really sure how long I'm gonna keep it. Can't really comment on the reliability of the M113 (yet) since I've only done 1kmiles and it's currently reading 80kmiles 2001 model, but service records shows only 1 major item replaced - water pump. Oh I've since replaced Valve cover gaskets which apparently is common on M113s to seep oil from. Feel wise, i still prefer the rawness of the M119. And boy, I've never known a V8 to stumble so much at idle , what's with that , Al , Klink ?? So far all I get is, "oh they all do that!" Right , Trae ?![]()
Unfortunately there's not much love for 202s/208s/210s and early 203s/209s due to rust issues. And that's the stigma especially here in the UK. The AMG variants of such series are probably the only ones that are worth a drive and owning nowadays (forgive me, I'm talking UK/Euro trend here) since other pedestrian models have rusted away and no real value. Certainly these late 90s AMGs , 55s/32s the like, are best bang for buck, or a lot of car for the money as we say , if you want an entertaining drive and easy to live with. A well maintained AMG55 is worth just about the same as GVZ's deferred maintenance cost on a 036, so to me they make nice DDs , left on the street and not worry about it too much type of semi high performance car.
My CLK55 is starting to show a bit of rust spots here and there but I'm not overly concerned as it will never be a collector IMO, and as Al says "it's the 5.4 what makes the car itself" , for me anyway. Plus I'm not really sure how long I'm gonna keep it. Can't really comment on the reliability of the M113 (yet) since I've only done 1kmiles and it's currently reading 80kmiles 2001 model, but service records shows only 1 major item replaced - water pump. Oh I've since replaced Valve cover gaskets which apparently is common on M113s to seep oil from. Feel wise, i still prefer the rawness of the M119. And boy, I've never known a V8 to stumble so much at idle , what's with that , Al , Klink ?? So far all I get is, "oh they all do that!" Right , Trae ?![]()
Grassroots Motorsports 190E 2.3-16 article:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4Dq7P90cBSoVW1uSXlESkdxX0E/view?usp=sharing
Yes, there has definitely been a rise in the prices of the 2.3-16 and especially the rarer 2.5-16 and Evo II models (not available in the US).
It will be interesting to see what that does to both values, and supply/demand, in USA and elsewhere.They are available now...a guy in New York just imported an Evo II now that they are 25 years old.