Engine oil recommendations

[550Maranello]

Folks,

I have been using Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic oil 10W-30 since I bought my car.

It is time for an oil and pan gasket change - 1993 w/99545 miles - and would like to know if there is a better or improved oil to use since we will be moving to Miami in October and the weather will be much hotter in the summer.

Kind regards,

Orazio

 

[samiam44]

All the oils have been reformulated through the years.

In the mobil-1 lineup, I would use 5W40 synthetic diesel oil.


Michael

 

[gsxr]

10W-30 is thinner than what MB recommended for these cars, I would not use that - especially in a warm climate! You want an xW-40 or xW-50 oil, and preferably not a 'zero' weight (i.e., not 0W-40). [Edit: As Klink has mentioned here, 0W-40 is ok IF, and only IF, the oil is formally approved by MB with the appropriate 229.x specification. I still don't like zero-weight fuel-economy oils though, but that's just my personal preference.]

As Michael said, the M-1 5W-40 Turbo Diesel Truck oil is pretty good stuff, and affordable too - available at select Wal-Marts for ~$22/gallon. I would not use the M-1 15W-50 as it appears Mobil changed to a cheaper group III base stock (i.e., fake synthetic) a few years ago. [Edit: The Turbo Diesel Truck also changed to Group III base stock around the same time, with the change from CI-4 to CJ-4 rating.] It's probably ok if you change your oil every 3-5kmi, but it won't handle extended drains. If your budget is larger, check out Red Line 10W-40, but that is ~$11/qt at the moment. Red Line is proper Group IV/V base stock (true synthetic) and can handle extended drains with no problem (7.5-15k intervals are fairly common).

Look for an oil with adequate levels of ZDDP (zinc/phosphorus), and maybe decent moly content. The Red Line non-diesel formulas mostly have both; their diesel formulas recently removed the moly to meet newer diesel emission requirements. Mobil doesn't list moly in their specs, but they do list Z&P; you generally like to see a number over 1000. Unfortunately they will never admit to what Group the base stock is, you have to do research to figure that out.

Several years worth of Mobil spec sheets are posted here:
http://124performance.com/docs/general/Mobil/

Note the 15W-50 looks great on paper but what you don't see is the cheap Group III base stock. Sure, it's great for racing applications as they claim, because race engines get the oil changed after every race or track session (or darn close to it). But the viscosity starts to shear down after 3-4kmi and oil consumption shoots up... not good. BT, DT. The M-1 5W-40 appears to still be a Group IV/V base stock, at least for now.

 

[550Maranello]

Thanks much folks.

I used Redline in my Maserati but never thought to use it in my 500E.

Have a nice Memorial Weekend.

Orazio

 

[szvook]

I switched from M1 0W40 to Motul 300V Power 5W40 recently and the car is loving the new juice. True synthetic, group V base stock oil with more then needed ZDDP and Moly levels. No more Mobile or anything else for that matter from now on, only the best for my car.

 

[samiam44]

Interesting.. I thought all the Motul products were blends?

Dave, How long do you leave the truck and SUV 5W40 in your engines?


Michael

 

[gsxr]

Dave, How long do you leave the truck and SUV 5W40 in your engines?

For normal street use / daily driver, generally 10kmi, with oil analysis to verify the 10k interval is safe.

Since my 500's see a fair amount of track use, those get changed at 5kmi or less, also with oil analysis. That means an oil change about once every 2 years as the 500's only get 2-3kmi per year on them.

 

[szvook]

Interesting.. I thought all the Motul products were blends?

The 300V oils are 100% synthetic ester based nowadays.

 

[Christian_K]

I use a true Full Synthetic Oil from Addinol Germany in 5W40. Its a rather small refinery/oil manufacturer with a lot of traditions, but their products rock.
The Product i use from them is called "Super Light MV 0546" in 5W-40.
The ZDDP Level according to their mails is "way above" 1000ppm, still they always match the newest API classifications with this product and getting the highest ratings in the toughest oil-testing, which is at Mercedes-Benz. Getting the MB 229.3 and highest Porsche approvals without issues.

Price is a joke, i pay 60€ for 20Liters (21,13 Quarts)! (3€/Liter)
Using this Oil in all family cars since around 7+ years. After re-oiling my old MB 190E 2.6 around 7 years ago from mineral-crap 15W-40 which was used before, after a motor-clean, then used the Addinol MV 0546, the engine stayed totally clean after every 10.000KM oil-change interval. No black burned residue from mineral-crap oil anymore like before in the cylinder-head since then. Fuel-consumption lowered by 0.5L/100km, hydro-element ticking was gone since using this oil and so on.

Though, if the Motul 300V Power 5W40 wouldn't cost like 15€/Liter! here in Germany, i would probably try that too. More in the 5€/Liter area would be acceptable for me.

 

[JordiC]

The local Walmart is no longer carrying M1 5w-40 turbo diesel. M1 10w-40 high mileage is at $26 per jug. Found a VOA at this site:

[url]http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2330033

[/URL] Certainly not the promised levels I was expecting. Any thoughts on switching to this for my over 170k mile 036? Try and find the better stuff at a higher cost?

 

[gsxr]

Yeah, the M-1 10W-40 is probably a cheap Group III oil, same as the 15W-50. It's getting harder to find the "good stuff" without paying a small fortune. It's ok as long as you don't run it past 5kmi. If you're picky, go with anything from Red Line, or select Amsoil products... all of which are available online in the US without much fuss. More exotic stuff like Motul or Repsol will require more research. If you hunt around you may be able to still find the M-1 5W-40... if there are several Mall-Wart stores in your area, check all of them. Of the 5 in my area, only 1 carries it!

 

[szvook]

If one has a good motorcycle shop in their area that also sells European bikes, you'll probably find Motul products. Here in Los Angles you can find Motul in bike stores rather in auto stores, or tuner shops, in my case.

 

[JordiC]

if there are several Mall-Wart stores in your area, check all of them. Of the 5 in my area, only 1 carries it!

Good call Dave. A new Wallymarty just had a grand opening last month. I went there yesterday and guess what? They had 4 jugs of the M1 I was looking for!!I'm thrilled as this new store is actually 15 minutes away from home.

 

[samiam44]

I think Motul are available through the NAPA autoparts chain nation wide in the USA.

 

[szvook]

I think Motul are available through the NAPA autoparts chain nation wide in the USA.

It's not. They do not carry any Motul products, I checked online and called a few stores for good measure...one guy tried to tell me to use Valvoline instead - no thanks.

 

[akuatika]

On the mercedes sprinters turbo diesel the best oil i found so far is shell Rotella T 15-40, this is hot climate use, very good results compared to penzoil, valvoline or mobil.

 

[gsxr]

Rotella is decent stuff for dino oil, although I'm a bit partial to Delvac 1300 15W-40 (also dino HD diesel oil). I'm not a big fan of Pennzoil and have not used any in probably 15+ years.

 

[gerryvz]

Chevron DELO 400 LE 15W-40 is also excellent oil for dino, right in there with the Rotella and Delvac. It's commonly available -- I actually can get it at O'Reilly in 5-gallon pails for around $55 on sale; it's more commonly available for about $70-80 at normal price.

Any Chevron station will carry it in 1-gallon jugs and quarts but the 1-gallon jugs are well over $20, making the 5-gallon pails a much better deal .. getting the equivalent of at least a gallon free and when on sale, more than 2 gallons free....

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[brent mosing]

Anyone know the specs on Royal Purple?

 

[Cadence]

Try Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 synthetic!

 

[gsxr]

Dunno about Rotella T6, but the previous Rotella Syn 5W-40 was a Group III "fake" synthetic base stock (hydrocracked dino oil). Sadly, most "synthetics" on the market today have the same cheap base stocks. It's getting harder to find "true" synthetics with Group IV/V base stocks. Red Line is one of the few that have all "true" synthetics, AFAIK. Mobil has cheaped out and I believe much of the Mobil-1 line is now Group III. Amsoil has both and as always, it's difficult to find out which is which.

Dunno much about Royal Purple, sorry, Brent. Welcome aboard though! Sorry you had to join for an oil thread (the automotive equivalent of religion & politics).

 

[J-Sauce]

I also use Delvac 1300 Super 15w-40. Available at most autozones and o'reillys, as well as Wallymart! Usually not too much $$ either.

 

[DerFuror]

Anyone know the specs on Royal Purple?

http://500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?597-Royal-Purple&highlight=royal+purple
The Search function. An awesome thing. The Internet is pretty cool for info, too.

 

[jano]

Bumping old thread, mostly looking for where I could get amsoil.

I've drinking the amsoil cool-aide per my mechanic's recommendations on synthetic, but now I'm wondering how much of what they do is marketing fluff... it reminds me almost of amway stuff, their "dealer locator" shows a bunch of personal emails and phone numbers? Hmmm.. maybe I'll find something else.

 

[gsxr]

Yeah, my gripe with Amsoil is their marketing, which is somewhat annoying. You also have to be careful which specific product of theirs to use... watch out for "racing" or motorcycle formulas which may contain additives that damage catalytic converters, and some "Euro" formulas may be watered down to meet tree-hugger specs. It's becoming more of a PITA to find a good oil, if you're picky/anal like me (or you can just run Pennzoil dino juice and change it every 2k/6mo, lol).

From a quick look, I think you'll want either Amsoil's (AME) or (AMO) oil. They like to use a three-letter code to further mystify their product. Skip the European (AFL) stuff, the TBN is too low for my comfort level. You can buy direct online, and save a bundle if you sign up for their "preferred customer" deal. Order a couple cases to make it worth your while.

 

[Cannoli]

The Indy shop that has been servicing my cars has convinced me to use Total (formally Elf - pronounced "Toe-Tal") 10W50 Racing Synthetic. In my RUF Dakara (twin turbo 4.5L V8) I was consuming about a liter of Mobil1 0W40 Synthetic (recommend by Porsche) every other tank of gas. Granted I drive this vehicle hard, but the oil consumption seemed high even for a turbo engine. Since converting to Total, the SUV burns at least 50% less.

Since having the timing chain replaced (~165K miles) in the 500E, we have switched over to the Total 10W50 Racing Synthetic. So far so good.

 

[szvook]

Well, so far I have ran 4K miles using Motul 300V-Power 5W40. Ran the car at the ¼ mile track for 4 events (two of which were in quite hot weather and I ran more then ten times per event, one event was 15 runs with 8 or 9 hot laps within a 45 minute time-frame) and no oil loss at all – same level as when was filled. Me quite happy!

 

[gsxr]

10 to 15 runs per event...? Damn. Eric better quit whining about your track. I'm thrilled if I can get more than 5-6 runs per event...!

 

[szvook]

Those were two unique days where no one broke down, not too many cyclists taking up too much time, the weather was hot and people stayed away from the track. But more so, Eric and I were the only nutjobs lining up to run over and over until the time was up.

If anything, it gave me a chance to push the car in hot weather and test the new oil, as well as the car.

 

[TerryA]

I use Royal Purple 20-50 and it seems to do a great job. I just did my second oil change at a 119,600 miles with RP and after 6,000 miles I had not added any extra oil. The oil was only down an 1/8" on the dipstick. Only problem is cost the damn stuff is $9.25.

Also all of my minor seepage leaks have stopped. There is no oil drips on my bottom tray after 6,000 miles.

I would recommend RP to anybody.

 

[bing]

Just had an oil change after 8000km , 90% highway driving/long trips. Was on mobil 1 0w/40 and not once I had to top up! Now switched to Mobil1 5w/40 truck oil as one of the recommendations here.

Out of interest, how much oil do you guys like to see on your dipstick? What is the recommended level - Halfway in between min and max mark or just below max (3/4) ?? In the past I found MB dealers here never go above halfway, which to me personally should be 3/4. Maybe a personal thing ?

Cheers!
Bing

 

[gsxr]

The official word from MB:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/oil_level_checking.pdf

"Ideally, the engine oil level should be around halfway between the MAX and MIN marks on the oil dipstick."

 

[Jelmer]

Does anyone know if the USA oil differs from the European oils? It seems my car got BP 5000 in it at the start, which is 5W40. Then it's unknown (didn't specify in the book, dumb nuts) and after getting to NL they stuffed it full with 10W40. Then, after I got it, the Merc dealer put 5W30 in it, and my current shop puts 10W40 in it. The shop I just visited is adamant that these engines are high-performance engines and should get nothing else than fully synthetic 5W40. They also said it might explain the slightly higher temperatures, since my current oil is thicker.

My last oil change was only 1kKM ago, so I'm not going to make them replace it just now, but I'm definitely thinking about it... (when the other issues are resolved).

 

[gsxr]

Yes, USA oils are generally not the same as European oils, for various reasons.

That said, MB specifies an xW-40 or xW-50 oil for the M119 when operated in warm climates. Either a 5W-40 or 10W-40 is fine, that is what I use in all my M119's. The 10W-30 is acceptable in cold climates but I personally wouldn't use it at all, there's no need if you have fully synthetic oil, as the 10W-40 will pour just as easily in sub-freezing temps as 10W-30, so there's nothing to be gained by using the thinner stuff.

 

[Jelmer]

Besides the thickness of the oil, there's a difference in fully synthetic and semi-synthetic, other than just operating in different temperatures, isn't there?

 

[gsxr]

Besides the thickness of the oil, there's a difference in fully synthetic and semi-synthetic, other than just operating in different temperatures, isn't there?

Yes. And in the USA, there can be differences between different oils labeled 'Fully Synthetic'... some may be true synthetics (Group IV/V base stocks) while others may be hydrocracked dino oils (Group III base stocks), which are not true synthetics. However in Europe, I believe that legally only Group IV/V oils can be labeled 'Fully Synthetic'. I'm not positive though.

I have a hard enough time keeping track of USA oils, so I have no clue what is or isn't good stuff in Europe.

 

[samiam44]

I switched mine from Mobil 5W40 over to redline 15W40 about 1500 miles ago. Engine seems to like it better. On M-1, it seemed to have a very slight noise cold. I was hoping the diesel rated oil would be higher in ZDDP than the redline 10W50, 10W60 oils.
Michael

 

[993]

Hi guys!!
I use Valvoline VR1 10w60 on my 500E (it's very hot in Spain)
What do you think about this oil?
Thanks in advance

 

[superstar]

Yup same in here, I live in extremely hot climate where temperature all year around is around 100-125 F (35-50 C) . Which oil grade do you guys recommend for our beloved M119 engine in such extreme heat?
I am currently using Liqui Moly10W-40
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/...ndocument&land=GB&voilalang=e&voiladb=web.nsf

 

[195910]

In our Hellish Summer (+55C) I used the following Oils on the 500E:

- Mobil1 0W40
- Mobil1 5W50
- Mobil1 15W50

Highest Oil Pressure in the Summer is with the 15W50 (During Idle), though all go to 3 on acceleration.
No oil consumption with All three.

Now using LQ 5W40 on the E550, doing well and cheaper than M1

 

[gsxr]

In very high ambient temps, I'd use a top notch (Group IV/V base stock) synthetic just for the extra safety margin, especially if your engine temps are in the 100-110°C range. I wouldn't use anything thinner than 10W-40 in that heat. 10W-60 should be ok though. I have no idea if those oils are synthetic, or Group IV/V, so you'll need to do some research. All Red Line oils are Group IV/V and some Amsoil are as well (I'd use Amsoil AMO, ARO, or AME).

In the USA, most Mobil-1 formulas are now a cheaper Group III base stock, which is not a true synthetic. The Mobil-1 formulas sold in Europe are different and I'm not sure what those are. I would stick with 15W-50 for Mobil-1 and not attempt extended drains without oil analysis that included TBN levels.

 

[Christian_K]

This depends on various factors.
US 500E don't have an oil-cooler, is that correct? Also depends on what you temperatures are in your area.
In Germany the M119s get from the Dealer a 5W-40 Semi-Synthetic Oil with named approval of MB Sheet 229.3. We have an oil-cooler in our M119s.
Brands are various, depending on the dealer, mostly its Castrol, Fuchs-Titan or Mobil1 here in germany.

In Germany we have Winter-Temps down as much as -25°C/-13°F, So this is why you need here at least a 5W-XX or better a 0W-XX Viscosity Oil - for quick through-oiling at cold-starts.
Summer temps here are rarely exceeding 35°C/95°F and given the Oil-Cooler, a XXW-40 is optimal here.

I would never use a xxW-30 or even a xxW-20 Oil with the M119s, unless you're living in arctic regions.

By the way, a good Synthetic 10W-40 or 15W-40 is as thin as a 0W-40 at 100°C (Temps you only get at the piston-rings/cylinder-walls).
However in Germany there isn't a single 10W-40 or 15W-40 synthetic available - they are >90% mineral based and won't even get/have the necessary Mercedes 229.3 approval - So their bad base-oils tend to thin-out over the 100°C mark much much more than with a good synthetic 5W-40 or 0W-40.

Another exapmple in Germany are the BMW M5 (E39), they get so hot temperatures at the piston-rings/cylinder-walls that they HAVE TO use a xxW-50 Oil for it (Full-Synthetic 5W-50 Castrol is used by the BMW Dealers on those engines). Various People in German Forums have made the bad experience that with xxW-40 Oils (independent if synthetic or mineral-based) their M5s got worn-out Oil-rentetion rings pretty quick, which is a costly repair.

 

[gsxr]

USA and Japan-spec 124.036's DO NOT have a factory engine oil cooler. Euro models all have the engine oil cooler.

Oil types (base stocks, viscosities, additive packages, etc) can vary quite a bit between USA, Europe, and other places so you'll need to do some homework on what's available in your local area. In the USA, there are zero issues with xxW-40 viscosities if changed at appropriate intervals for the oil type being used.

 

[superstar]

I have JDM imported (without oil cooler) in very hot climate. My oil pressure drops below 1 and slightly above 0 when idle and that’s during the summer days (+45C) with 0W-40- or even 10W-40. So what do you guys think the appropriate oil that i should use in this heat?
Fully synthetic 10W-60?

 

[Jelmer]

Is that idle in neutral or in gear? In D it shouldn't get much below 1, I believe the docs said 0.5 was the minimum?

Could it also be that there's something else wrong? Sender, gauge, oil tubes, etc?

 

[195910]

I have JDM imported (without oil cooler) in very hot climate. My oil pressure drops below 1 and slightly above 0 when idle and that’s during the summer days (+45C) with 0W-40- or even 10W-40. So what do you guys think the appropriate oil that i should use in this heat?
Fully synthetic 10W-60?

That's too low! danger !

The lowest I got on the 0W40 is 1.25 bar and that's in 52C, with slight RPM increase (near 1000rpm) it should reach 3 bar.
I inspected a lot of the JDM cars and they do have low oil pressure due to clogged oil passages and oil pump, due to lack of maintenance.

Export sales manager and the technicians at Liqui Moly recommended the 5W40, as 10W60 grade is too heavy and untested for the M119. Its used for high revving racing engine with high oil consumption (e.g M5/M6 Engines).

 

[gsxr]

If the pressure is just above zero at hot idle, that isn't good. It may just be a faulty sender, click here for details. I'd try replacing the sender first. And at the next oil change, do not use oil that is 0W-xx. Yes, you should use fully synthetic, and at least a 10W-40 viscosity, if not higher. The 1994 service products brochure (attached) did show 10W-60 as acceptable in warm climates.

 

[bing]

USA and Japan-spec cars DO NOT have a factory engine oil cooler. Euro models all have the engine oil cooler.

And the reason for this??

 

[Jelmer]

Lower speedlimits, iirc?

 

[Christian_K]

And the reason for this??

Yes that makes sense