Engine oil recommendations

[gsxr]

It's fine .... Just change it at or before 5K intervals!

Correct. It's a decent Group III oil, but it should be changed at 3-5kmi intervals. Don't use it for extended drains.

 

[Wowek]

Oil I can recommend:
Fuchs TITAN SYN MC SAE 10W-40 it is semi synthetic. German one and very good quality, it has lot of recommendations - also the VW 505 that normally goes for full synthetic products.

For this year I have bought Valvoline Racng VR1 10w60 - to be tested.
s

I tested the Valvoline for 1 year - even in very hot days 30-34deg. C - this oil gives on idle 1,6-1,7 bar pressure.
It is synthetic-blend one. No oil consumption. Only thing is I do not use car in winter.

 

[Trae]

Redline 10w40 vs. 15w50- Not recommended for use in cold climates (-20C/-4°F for 15W50).

Which would you choose if the temperature NEVER got colder than 0 Fahrenheit on our 500Es?

 

[gerryvz]

I am perfectly happy using 20W-50 and 15W-40 oils in my 126 and 124.092 cars.

 

[Trae]

I am leaning toward Redline 15w50 for NC weather.

 

[gerryvz]

I am leaning toward Redline 15w50 for NC weather.

That oil will be My-Tee-Fine for your Southern weather.

 

[bgalakazam]

Oi, looks like I am due for a change. My last change was 167 859mi on 4/20/2013 and due to the cross-country trip and large distances here I am at ~178 500mi. I'll order another batch of Redline 10W-40 from Amazon Prime. The oil is not dark still, which is nice. I've only added 1qt during this time.

 

[savmjv]

I never thought to check Amazon for Redline, but I just did and it's a whopping $0.04 savings vs. my local shop. They make a delivery almost daily at our house, but I need a little better than that Mr. Bezos!

 

[Maui]

I recently ordered Mutol and filter from FCP euro. Decent price with 5% off coupon and free shipping.

 

[Kamylek]

What do you think about Shell Oil 10W60 for m119 engines ?

 

[195910]

Would not hurt, Though unnecessary as its designed for High Rev/stroke engines that consume oil.. Go with a 5W50 or 15W50 if you want a heavier more stable oil.

 

[savmjv]

I use the Redline 10W60 in my M3, but it's really only becuase Castrol 10W60 was originally "required" and what the dealership used while oil changes were included under warranty. Redline came out with their version about the time I hit 50,000 miles and the warranty/free service expired. I've been with it ever since (about to go over 100k). No issues with oil consumption between changes with either brand though.

 

[jmgoehr]

10W60!! Holy Crap. I've been reading a lot of the Bob Is The Oil Guy posts, and most over there seem to think it would be crazy NOT to put 0W-20 synthetic in every car. Extensive oil analysis shows no undue wear occurs. All the new cars use this and most old cars have been back spec-ed to this. Ford back spec-ed its crown vic V8s back to 1992 to use 0W-20! This is progress man; this is technology, film strength, film thickness.

I have not tried it yet but I will with the next oil change an I expect the following: better lubrication on startup, when most wear occurs; shorter time for oil and coolant to come up to temperature, because a thinner oil gathers and releases heat faster and because the the oil pump will be able to pump more oil for a given time; better gas mileage; and here is the best part, quicker revving.

Seriously, I've messed with pedal, cable, linkages, etc. trying to get a decent pedal feel and good revving- lubed, polished, replaced, remove the spring in the pedal And it has helped a little. Bit lighter oil should help some too. I also expect oil pressure to be lower at idle (650), but this shouldn't matter because I expect oil pressure to rocket well past max well before 1500 rpm.

 

[gsxr]

You'll also find that few, if any, of the BITOG crowd are referring to the M119 engine used in the E500E, or any Mercedes engine, for that matter. The viscosity charts published by Mercedes only show 0W-xx oils as needed for ambient temps colder than -4°F / -20°C. Even then, only 0W-30 and 0W-40 are approved, not 0W-20. MB doesn't approve anything thinner than xW-30, period. Newer oils have many benefits over older oil technology, but the emissions push has also made many newer oils worse by reducing anti-wear additives. And they can't change bearing clearances on 20+ year old engines, which are much different than clearances on new engines which were ORIGINALLY DESIGNED to use 0W-20 oils. The super-thin oils are largely used by mfr's today to help meet ever-higher fuel economy requirements, and they design the engines to work with the super-thin oils. The M119 was on the drawing board in the late 1980's. Different worlds.

For a bit more reading, click here, skip to the info in post #57 where the 0W-20 oils are discussed. The bearing clearance mentioned of 0.0018" is right smack in the middle of MB spec for the M119 crank & rod bearings (which vary from 0.0008 to 0.0022, min/max).

I'll stick with the 10W-40 that is MB-approved for temperatures above -4°F / -20°C, which is all I need where I live, year-round. I like esters, lots of ZDDP and moly, and minimal VII's. I don't need fuel-economy enhancing oils. Your needs may vary.

EDIT: Remind me again of all the fantastic reasons to use super-thin oils in Mercedes engines, despite the fact Mercedes has not approved use of these ultra-low viscosities? Bueller? Bueller....?

 

[clarkz71]

10W60!! Holy Crap. I've been reading a lot of the Bob Is The Oil Guy posts, and most over there seem to think it would be crazy NOT to put 0W-20 synthetic in every car. Extensive oil analysis shows no undue wear occurs. All the new cars use this and most old cars have been back spec-ed to this. Ford back spec-ed its crown vic V8s back to 1992 to use 0W-20! This is progress man; this is technology, film strength, film thickness. I have not tried it yet but I will with the next oil change an I expect the following: better lubrication on startup, when most wear occurs; shorter time for oil and coolant to come up to temperature, because a thinner oil gathers and releases heat faster and because the the oil pump will be able to pump more oil for a given time; better gas mileage; and here is the best part, quicker revving. Seriously, I've messed with pedal, cable, linkages, etc. trying to get a decent pedal feel and good revving- lubed, polished, replaced, remove the spring in the pedal And it has helped a little. Bit lighter oil should help some too. I also expect oil pressure to be lower at idle (650), but this shouldn't matter because I expect oil pressure to rocket well past max well before 1500 rpm.

Mercedes specifies 0W30 & 0W40 as the only 0W oils.

Spec 229.5

DO NOT use 0W20, stick with 5W40 or 0W40

These are not Ford or Toyota engines.

 

[gerryvz]

I have begun using RedLine 15W-50 motor oil in my E500.
Just ordered a new case last night via Amazon Prime, in fact.

 

[clarkz71]

Here's the current MB chart from WIS. As you can see, all weight oils on this chart are OK at -5°C (+23°f) and above.

 

[Maui]

I ordered some Mutol oil and filter from FCP on the 21st. It was supposed to arrive tomorrow but now I'm not to sure. UPS tracking seems a bit strange.

[TABLE="class: dataTable"][TR="class: odd"][TD="class: nowrap"]Minneapolis, MN, United States [/TD][TD="class: nowrap"]01/27/2014 [/TD][TD="class: nowrap"]10:00 P.M. [/TD][TD]Adverse weather conditions. [/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: nowrap"]Kastamonu, Turkey [/TD][TD="class: nowrap"]01/27/2014 [/TD][TD="class: nowrap"]10:00 P.M. [/TD][TD]Adverse weather conditions. [/TD][/TR][TR="class: odd"][TD="class: nowrap"]Hodgkins, IL, United States [/TD][TD="class: nowrap"]01/23/2014 [/TD][TD="class: nowrap"]8:39 P.M. [/TD][TD]Departure Scan [/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: nowrap"][/TD][TD="class: nowrap"]01/23/2014 [/TD][TD="class: nowrap"]6:58 A.M. [/TD][TD]Arrival Scan [/TD][/TR][TR="class: odd"][TD="class: nowrap"]Hartford, CT, United States [/TD][TD="class: nowrap"]01/21/2014 [/TD][TD="class: nowrap"]10:34 P.M. [/TD][TD]Departure Scan [/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: nowrap"][/TD][TD="class: nowrap"]01/21/2014 [/TD][TD="class: nowrap"]7:23 P.M. [/TD][TD]Origin Scan [/TD][/TR][TR="class: odd"][TD="class: nowrap"]United States [/TD][TD="class: nowrap"]01/21/2014 [/TD][TD="class: nowrap"]4:21 P.M. [/TD][TD]Order Processed: Ready for UPS [/TD][/TR][/TABLE]

 

[clarkz71]

I ordered some Mutol oil and filter from FCP on the 21st.

Which Motul oil?

I use this 5W40

 

[texas993]

Which Motul oil?

I use this 5W40

Clark,

I have started using it too. I was seeking one oil that I could use in all of my Mercedes vehicles. I purchased a case (4 X 5L) from Amazon. It is a good price for full synthetic. I hope that it is a good oil, but it is certainly better than the Mobil 1.

 

[clarkz71]

Clark,

I hope that it is a good oil, but it is certainly better than the Mobil 1.

It is a great oil.

I started using it after much research on the specs, TBN, Phosphorus & Zinc percentages, etc.

The shop I work at part time uses it in all the high end cars. And between service oil consumption
was greatly reduced from Mobil 1, which is a "good" oil for a group III.

And it meets MB spec 229.5 which is good enough for AMG 6.3 engines
as well as all current and past MB gas cars.

 

[Palmz]

Has anyone been using Castrol Magnatec 5w-40, or Castrol oils in general, in a m119? It does appear to meet MB 229.31.
I've used it for almost all of my previous cars and it's been a great oil. I'm not sure whether it's for sale in the US, but do the euro members have an opinion?

 

[Maui]

Which Motul oil?

I use this 5W40

5W40

 

[clarkz71]

Has anyone been using Castrol Magnatec 5w-40, or Castrol oils in general, in a m119? It does appear meet MB 229.31.
I've used it for almost all of my previous cars and it's been a great oil. I'm not sure whether it's for sale in the US, but do the euro members have an opinion?

If it meets MB spec, should be good. But keep in mind, 229.31 is a diesel spec, like 229.51

Gas engine would be 229.3 and 229.5

229.31 should be OK in a gas engine as it's before diesel particulate filters
so the Phosphorus and Zinc levels should be good.

I would not use a 229.51 "only" spec oil though as the "diesel benefit" over a gas oil is reduced.

5W40

That's a great weight oil for the M119

 

[szvook]

For those of you running Motul now (and future users), I'm curious to hear how your engine sounds and feels now?

 

[texas993]

Steve, mine runs great.

But I didn't notice a difference when I put the Motul in. I don't know what was in the car prior to the Motul as the previous owner changed the oil the day before my purchase. The oil brand was not printed on the receipt.

The non-technical reasons that I like Motul is:

I like the 5L jugs - size is nice.
Jugs have a handy spout that eliminates the need for a funnel.
Ease of ordering through Amazon Prime.
Price: $150 for 20L. $7.5 per L.
Can use it in all of my Mercedes vehicles, including my Mother In Law's E350. Less varied "inventory" in my garage.

 

[clarkz71]

For those of you running Motul now (and future users), I'm curious to hear how your engine sounds and feels now?

I've run several "good" oils, including Pentosin 5W40, Mobil 1 15W50 and 0W40.

The only difference I've noticed with the Motul 5W40 is oil pressure.

In gear, the idle @ 500rpm the gauge reads 1.5 bar even at 95°c.

With the other oils it was at 1.0 bar or slightly above.

In park @ 650rpm it's at 2.0 bar

Sending unit is new dealer part replaced in September 2011 after I bought the car.

 

[Trae]

Reline 15W50 protects down to -4F.
Here is what their site said:

Not recommended for use in cold climates (-20C/-4°F for 15W50)

 

[gerryvz]

I've become a big fan of RedLine Group IV/V synthetic oil. I do not think you can find a better quality oil anywhere. It is honest, real-deal stuff.
And am a big fan of Brad Penn semi-synthetic for my M117s.

 

[gsxr]

I think Motul 300V is about equivalent to Red Line, as both use Group V esters and have some moly content (depending on the viscosity). But there is a ~25% price premium for the Motul 300V, ouch. The Red Line 10W-40 has slightly better specs (VI index, HTHS, TBN, etc) than the Motul, and the Motul [300V] oddly doesn't seem to have API ratings. Given the price different, I'm using Red Line 10W-40. I should have two UOA's from Red Line in a few months (one with track use, one street use) which should be interesting.

Click below to read more on the Motul 300V that the Vookster is using:
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?1286-Anyone-using-Motul-oil

 

[bgalakazam]

I am satisfied with the 10W-40 RedLine. Like I said, I ran 10k miles and only had to add 1L to the engine. The oil is slightly darker than what it is new, but nowhere near as dark as Castrol GTX was on my 190E. Amazon Prime makes it a 2day delivery with free shipping for $11 so I am happy with the price. Maybe Motul is slightly better, but I don't think it's worth the premium.

 

[gsxr]

... Amazon Prime makes it a 2day delivery with free shipping for $11 so I am happy with the price. Maybe Motul is slightly better, but I don't think it's worth the premium.

That's my feeling as well. I'm curious to see how my UOA's turn out.

 

[jmgoehr]

It's not about fuel economy, it's about better wear protection, faster warm up, and more a responsive engine. I don't think MB 25 year old approvals of 25 year old oil tech. means anything. Ford's V8's had "official" oil specs just like MB for the M119, until Ford got around to revising these to reflect the new oil. Don't expect MB to every revise their M119 oil specs, it's not going to happen, but certainly does not mean 0W-20 would not be approve if they did. Even so, note that 0W-30 is on the old list and is the most versatile.

Also, the idea that a higher viscosity spread results in shearing does not apply to newer synthetic oils.

In general, you should use the thinnest oil that achieves the proper oil temperatures and oil pressures for the driving you do. For most, this means 0W-20. Yes, even in the m119. Designed clearance tolerance have not changed that much.

 

[gsxr]

The CURRENT Mercedes approvals still do not allow xW-20 viscosity. The 1994 approvals were even more restrictive, no 0W-xx oils were approved at all, and the thinnest (5W-30 and 10W-30) were not approved for ambient temps above 30°C/86°F, i.e. the thin stuff was only for cold climate use.

You still have not provided any solid evidence that thinner oils will provide better wear protection, faster warm up, or a more responsive engine. All of the above are highly subjective. I noticed that engine longevity wasn't mentioned.

If 0W-20 was all you and BITOG have cracked it up to be, Mercedes would be issuing TSB's to their dealers recommending its use for oil changes in all years/models. Oddly, this hasn't happened yet. Tell you what, you use 0W-20 in your M119 for the next 5 years in all different climates, including -10°F to +110°F ambients that we get here in Boise, and let us know how it works out. Include UOA's from various mileages, and monitor consumption as well. We'll be patiently waiting.

 

[gsxr]

BTW - just curious, do you own a 500E, jmgoehr?

 

[szvook]

Motul oddly doesn't seem to have API ratings.

If you are referring to the 300V oils, then yes, no API ratings are given...aside from this one "OEM Approvals: Above existing Motorsport standards", which works fine for me.

 

[clarkz71]

The CURRENT Mercedes approvals still do not allow xW-20 viscosity. The 1994 approvals were even more restrictive, no 0W-xx oils were approved at all

Well, probably because the 0W40 wasn't manufactured yet, however, 0W40 Mobil 1 was factory fill for Porsche in 1996

You still have not provided any solid evidence that thinner oils will provide better wear protection, faster warm up, or a more responsive engine. All of the above are highly subjective. I noticed that engine longevity wasn't mentioned.

I don't think he can, 0W20 is used in engine's designed around it, when I was at Lexus for a short time,
the new cars used 0W20.

All the older models received 5W30

If 0W-20 was all you and BITOG have cracked it up to be, Mercedes would be issuing TSB's to their dealers recommending its use for oil changes in all years/models. Oddly, this hasn't happened yet. Tell you what, you use 0W-20 in your M119 for the next 5 years in all different climates, including -10°F to +110°F ambients that we get here in Boise, and let us know how it works out. Include UOA's from various mileages, and monitor consumption as well. We'll be patiently waiting.

Good luck with that, I would never run a 20 weight oil.

The majority of MB spec oils are 40 weight. Whether it's 0/5/15/20W40.
It's the most recommended weight by spec.

Even though they allow all those other multi grade viscosity oils

 

[Glen]

Oil threads are almost never constructive. Like discussing politics or religion, it's generally not a good idea.

Fair warning: If things get out of hand, this thread will be closed.

 

[gsxr]

Oil threads are almost never constructive. Like discussing politics or religion, it's generally not a good idea.

LOL. Very true. Debates over recommendations that conflict with Mercedes specs should take place on BITOG, not here.

 

[clarkz71]

and the Motul oddly doesn't seem to have API ratings.

Yes, actually they do. At least the Motul "street oil" I use.

In fact, a very good API rating.

 

[clarkz71]

Oil threads are almost never constructive. Like discussing politics or religion, it's generally not a good idea.

Fair warning: If things get out of hand, this thread will be closed.

Other then the 0W20 issue, I think this oil thread has been productive.

I believe all the oils discussed, Red Line and Motul are both good.

Also the diesel oils Rotella and Delo have their place.

 

[Glen]

Other then the 0W20 issue, I think this oil thread has been productive.

I believe all the oils discussed, Red Line and Motul are both good.

Also the diesel oils Rotella and Delo have their place.

Yes, so far it's been fine. Hopefully it will stay that way.

 

[gsxr]

Yes, actually they do. At least the Motul "street oil" I use.

In fact, a very good API rating.

Sorry, I meant the 300V specifically.

 

[gerryvz]

Also the diesel oils Rotella and Delo have their place.

Aye, you are correct.

I have used DELO 400 15W-40 on my M104 for some years now, and you can see the result of the extra detergents in that oil when I tore down my cylinder head. I use a 2,000-mile oilchange interval on the DELO, and 3,000 miles on the 20W-50 Brad Penn that I use in my M117s.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Maui]

My Motul and filter arrived today. Most likely do the oil change this weekend.

 

[gsxr]

Remember to change the filter first, BEFORE you drain the oil (or at least, before you put the drain plug back in). When you remove the filter, it lets the filter housing drain into the sump. If you do it backwards, you end up leaving a half-quart of dirty oil in there.

 

[gerryvz]

Remember to change the filter first, BEFORE you drain the oil (or at least, before you put the drain plug back in). When you remove the filter, it lets the filter housing drain into the sump. If you do it backwards, you end up leaving a half-quart of dirty oil in there.

Are you making that recommendation to clarkz71, or to Maui?

 

[Maui]

Remember to change the filter first, BEFORE you drain the oil (or at least, before you put the drain plug back in). When you remove the filter, it lets the filter housing drain into the sump. If you do it backwards, you end up leaving a half-quart of dirty oil in there.

That's a useful piece of information. Generally I remove the drain plug and then the filter while the oil is draining.

 

[clarkz71]

Are you making that recommendation to clarkz71, or to Maui?

That post deserves a Chain Yank award.

I remove the filter first on all cannister housings
since The OM617 back in the 80's.

Common sense.

Also, there is still oil in the filter housing after draining.

Use a lint free shop towl or turkey baster to remove.

Sent from my SPH-M930BST using Tapatalk 2

 

[clarkz71]

That's a useful piece of information. Generally I remove the drain plug and then the filter while the oil is draining.

That's fine, I also remove the oil filler cap first.

Allows the oil to drain faster.

Sent from my SPH-M930BST using Tapatalk 2