Yea, this is b.s. (the description as E36, painting over a chrome E36 badge to color match, screwing metal pedals directly on to rubber ones). No way AMG would do any of this. I was going to post something on BAT but I think they need the full @ace10 treatment - he's better at exposing this stuff than me. His slow water torture method is more effective and far more entertaining than my blunt instrument approach.
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Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?
- Thread starter ace10
- Start date
Looks like BaT is in the shipping game. Read-time GPS trackers on your new car...
View attachment 125733
Announcing: Bring a Trailer Shipping!
Learn more about Announcing: Bring a Trailer Shipping! on Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online.bringatrailer.com
Bring A Trailer Announces That Actually You Don't Need To Bring A Trailer Anymore | Carscoops
Bring a Trailer adds function to get a shipping quote to make the process of buying easier and smootherwww.carscoops.com
Full disclosure... I didn't read it all, but this is a pretty significant move. If BaH is trying to stand this up on their own, I wish them the very best.
Without really thinking this through, my initial conclusion is that this will cost them sales dollars. Knowing shipping costs upfront will take the wind out of the sails of some inexperienced bidders. Scare them off from placing some stupid bids.
Shipping cars is a nightmarish business. The brokers I use answer their phones at all hours of the days. They never give me a price without looking at current comps. Sure this could all be done with technology, but you can be damn sure that BaH will be building in mega huge markups to cover any risk in their predictive pricing, if in fact they are "guaranteeing" rate quotes.
I think it's optional. You can use your own shipper, but they are trying to make it easy for n00b buyers who have never (or rarely) shipped a car in the past, and don't know how to play the broker game, or who to contact
I was poking around on that "AMG" S124 and tried a couple of things with the shipper tool.
First off, it appears to be entirely based on distance. Didn't try a super short haul to see what their base charge would be, but here's what I did, because I KNOW there isn't any real intelligence built into the quote tool.
The two destinations are VERY similar in terms of miles hauled, but Pikeville KY is couple of hours off a major interstate. While Charleston WV is right on I64. And it's on the way to I64 and the I95 corridors.
Truckers HATE venturing off the interstates. They want to be compensated for doing so. They've got to burn possibly half a driving day for that diversion into the middle of nowhere.
So I don't know if BaH has developed this "tool" in vacuum, but I can tell you that it doesn't align with my personal experiences or what brokers and drivers have told me over the years.
First off, it appears to be entirely based on distance. Didn't try a super short haul to see what their base charge would be, but here's what I did, because I KNOW there isn't any real intelligence built into the quote tool.
The two destinations are VERY similar in terms of miles hauled, but Pikeville KY is couple of hours off a major interstate. While Charleston WV is right on I64. And it's on the way to I64 and the I95 corridors.
Truckers HATE venturing off the interstates. They want to be compensated for doing so. They've got to burn possibly half a driving day for that diversion into the middle of nowhere.
So I don't know if BaH has developed this "tool" in vacuum, but I can tell you that it doesn't align with my personal experiences or what brokers and drivers have told me over the years.
Rates are highly variable based on location and time of year, too. I've got a great shipper (broker) I've used for years that does a really good job and has gotten me some crazy deals ($1200 from AZ-FL in an enclosed truck!) on occasion. He also gives me insight into what the going rate is and why, since there are so many variables that play into it.
$1800 for LV to KY or WV seems high to me. I would expect it to be more around $1200-$1500 based on my experience. It could have something to do with the route, though. That's where my shipper guy comes in, as he explains the reasoning behind the prices he's getting.
If anyone needs a good shipping broker, let me know and I'll share his information.
Dan
$1800 for LV to KY or WV seems high to me. I would expect it to be more around $1200-$1500 based on my experience. It could have something to do with the route, though. That's where my shipper guy comes in, as he explains the reasoning behind the prices he's getting.
If anyone needs a good shipping broker, let me know and I'll share his information.
Dan
Dan nailed it. There is soooo much more involved than just miles. I'm curious to hear how it works out. High-dollar buyers may opt for the BaH broker just for ease of use, I mean they're less likely to spend time on the phone to save $500 on a $50k car, than someone who just bought the no-reserve 300D for $5k.
I remember a couple years ago when I was looking for transport to Boise (forget from where), some major carriers responded with "sorry, that's off our normal route, we won't do it."
Exactly. Another "for instance" is the eastern seaboard routes, which are highly seasonal even to this day. Snowbirds ship cars back and forth based on the seasons, and if you're going the opposite way it can be as much as double the other direction's price because people aren't looking for loads to go north (or south, depending on the time of year.) The east/west I-10 corridor is another one.
Something else I learned is that the time between Thanksgiving and Christmas is difficult at best to get things moved. A lot of carriers use that time to go home and perform annual maintenance because demand is low. When I had my 220SEb in Tucson and needed it in Tampa I was ready to go the week after Thanksgiving, but it took until the week before Christmas before we could find a ride. That was when he found an enclosed carrier with an open spot coming out of LA that went for our bid of $1200. A wild chance, but we got it.
-D
Something else I learned is that the time between Thanksgiving and Christmas is difficult at best to get things moved. A lot of carriers use that time to go home and perform annual maintenance because demand is low. When I had my 220SEb in Tucson and needed it in Tampa I was ready to go the week after Thanksgiving, but it took until the week before Christmas before we could find a ride. That was when he found an enclosed carrier with an open spot coming out of LA that went for our bid of $1200. A wild chance, but we got it.
-D
Wanted to test something else on the BaH shipping quote tool.
Found a seller with multiple listings.
A Land Cruiser Toopy, a Jeep Grand Wagoneer and a Porsche 944.
bringatrailer.com
The tool priced all three exactly the same.
Again, that's not how it works in real life. A small 2500lb sports car will ship for a lower fee than an SUV that is feet longer and double the weight.
Did they put any thought into this?
Found a seller with multiple listings.
A Land Cruiser Toopy, a Jeep Grand Wagoneer and a Porsche 944.
The best vintage and classic cars for sale online | Bring a Trailer
Bring a Trailer Auctions is the best place to buy and sell vintage and classic vehicles - Porsche, BMW, Land Rover, and more.
bringatrailer.com
The tool priced all three exactly the same.
Again, that's not how it works in real life. A small 2500lb sports car will ship for a lower fee than an SUV that is feet longer and double the weight.
Did they put any thought into this?
Didn't anyone tell you - if you live in the Bay Area and work for a tech company and can write a little javascript or java code - you can quickly become better at anything and better than everyone that has years of experience and proper education in that same field: medicine, politics, environment, energy etc.Wanted to test something else on the BaH shipping quote tool.
Found a seller with multiple listings.
A Land Cruiser Toopy, a Jeep Grand Wagoneer and a Porsche 944.
The best vintage and classic cars for sale online | Bring a Trailer
Bring a Trailer Auctions is the best place to buy and sell vintage and classic vehicles - Porsche, BMW, Land Rover, and more.
The tool priced all three exactly the same.
Again, that's not how it works in real life. A small 2500lb sports car will ship for a lower fee than an SUV that is feet longer and double the weight.
Did they put any thought into this?
The only thing in my favor is I'm 6 miles off the interstate exit, with a straight shot (same road) to my development, and a car carrier can pull in & exit without any hassles turning around. But that won't help if you can't get a driver going through Boise on their way to NoVA.
Gotta find a non-running project and see how they price that. lol
Anecdotal story... I bought a Land Cruiser from a widow in LA. The truck was pristine but hadn't been running in years. I had it quoted as a runner but call me if there was a problem.
Turned out that the housing development was a crazy maze where the 18 wheeler couldn't get near the house. The truck wouldn't start, either. The driver called me and we worked out a side deal for him taking care of the situation and troubling the woman as little as possible.
He ended up fitting a bulb into the fuel line and forcing some fuel into the carb. Used a jump box to get the spark. The truck sputtered it's way to his rig. He had to rearrange his trailer to get my truck forward so he didn't have to mess with it until east coast. It wasn't his first rodeo.
I think I gave him $200 for his efforts. Cash in his pocket.
Funny thing is that he ended up bringing another truck to me from AZ the next month. Totally random, too. I used a different broker and didn't know who was hauling my stuff until he called me well after pick up.
Anecdotal story... I bought a Land Cruiser from a widow in LA. The truck was pristine but hadn't been running in years. I had it quoted as a runner but call me if there was a problem.
Turned out that the housing development was a crazy maze where the 18 wheeler couldn't get near the house. The truck wouldn't start, either. The driver called me and we worked out a side deal for him taking care of the situation and troubling the woman as little as possible.
He ended up fitting a bulb into the fuel line and forcing some fuel into the carb. Used a jump box to get the spark. The truck sputtered it's way to his rig. He had to rearrange his trailer to get my truck forward so he didn't have to mess with it until east coast. It wasn't his first rodeo.
I think I gave him $200 for his efforts. Cash in his pocket.
Funny thing is that he ended up bringing another truck to me from AZ the next month. Totally random, too. I used a different broker and didn't know who was hauling my stuff until he called me well after pick up.
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To @msq 's point...
Another shipping story where I cannot imagine how useless BaH would have been...
Bought a Land Cruiser in San Jose CA. I knew the seller from forums. Truck was immaculate. Seller documented every square inch of the truck and the loading.
It got here with a couple of not-insignificant scratches on the front end.
Driver swore up and down there were there. But nothing noted on his report and the seller has already sent me a copy. And pics.
Driver wanted his money and was really agressive about it. Called everyone liars. Cheats, etc.
He made a mistake though... he unloaded the truck without payment. So I jumped inside the truck and called the broker. This was near midnight.
We worked it out where I would get one estimate from my body shop and I would then forward payment for the net difference and the broker would be the middle man.
Took a month or two to get it sorted out. But driver got paid his fair fee. I got my truck fixed and the broker really earned his fee. Broker also made the driver write an apology to me in order to avoid getting dinged on his uShip account.
Try that with a tool on a Hearst website.
Another shipping story where I cannot imagine how useless BaH would have been...
Bought a Land Cruiser in San Jose CA. I knew the seller from forums. Truck was immaculate. Seller documented every square inch of the truck and the loading.
It got here with a couple of not-insignificant scratches on the front end.
Driver swore up and down there were there. But nothing noted on his report and the seller has already sent me a copy. And pics.
Driver wanted his money and was really agressive about it. Called everyone liars. Cheats, etc.
He made a mistake though... he unloaded the truck without payment. So I jumped inside the truck and called the broker. This was near midnight.
We worked it out where I would get one estimate from my body shop and I would then forward payment for the net difference and the broker would be the middle man.
Took a month or two to get it sorted out. But driver got paid his fair fee. I got my truck fixed and the broker really earned his fee. Broker also made the driver write an apology to me in order to avoid getting dinged on his uShip account.
Try that with a tool on a Hearst website.
The actual logistics are handled by Run Buggy. RunBuggy is an open car transportation marketplace
Bring a Trailer didn't start a shipping company from scratch overnight.
Look like they started two years ago. Basically a startup.
I've posted my thoughts about how realistic some of the pricing activity is or isn't. It's up to them to deliver, so to speak.
Non runner in Wash State
bringatrailer.com
$2210 and $3316 to my location.
Porsche 912 in Oregon
bringatrailer.com
$2251 and $3376 to my location.
They're quoting a non-runner (including an uninstalled engine not even on a stand) shipping for same fee as a fully function automobile.
That defies logic.
No Reserve: 1967 Chevrolet Chevy II Nova Coupe V8 Project
Bid for the chance to own a No Reserve: 1967 Chevrolet Chevy II Nova Coupe V8 Project at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #43,070.
Porsche 912 in Oregon
1969 Porsche 912 Coupe 5-Speed
Bid for the chance to own a 1969 Porsche 912 Coupe 5-Speed at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #43,037.
They're quoting a non-runner (including an uninstalled engine not even on a stand) shipping for same fee as a fully function automobile.
That defies logic.
Hope they fix the Title/Listing desc. in this one. This does not sound like an E36, sounds like E320 and I highly doubt AMG put on some of these AMG parts (take a look at the pic of the brake & accelerator pedals....someone screwed onto the rubber some metal AMG ones....no way AMG Japan does anything like that).
No Reserve: Japanese-Market 1995 Mercedes-Benz E320 Wagon
Bid for the chance to own a No Reserve: Japanese-Market 1995 Mercedes-Benz E320 Wagon at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #43,275.bringatrailer.com
View attachment 125776
Don't you get it? It's an E36 because... wait for it... stickers.
I was trying to be measured and fair in my response, but it gets more difficult with that kind of response from the seller (i.e. it has AMG engine stickers type of response that also includes some pictures of engine stickers and AMG body emblems).
Maybe it is a real 3.6 AMG engine, maybe it isn't, I don't know, but I don't understand how BAT leaves the heading description of the car as an E36 AMG all while the seller says: “If not mistaken it is a 3.2 sorry about the error.”
After you buy this perhaps they steer you to their sister site BAE: Bring an Engine
Very strong possibility it's a 3.2L engine. I'm not certain how to prove it's a 3.6L, I don't know the M104's very well.
On the M119 on the camshaft on real AMG engine there are AMG stampings. I don't know if this holds true for the M104 @jhodg5ck may know.
latest from the seller:
"yea on that topic. I answered it was a 3.2 thinking that’s what it came with due to the export Cert saying it 3.2. and being I’m not that knowledgeable about how to tell if it’s a 3.2 or 3.6 I just blurted out 3.2, Since that was the safest answer and I didn’t want to lie to the people"
This may inspire a lot of confidence in a potential buyer.
"yea on that topic. I answered it was a 3.2 thinking that’s what it came with due to the export Cert saying it 3.2. and being I’m not that knowledgeable about how to tell if it’s a 3.2 or 3.6 I just blurted out 3.2, Since that was the safest answer and I didn’t want to lie to the people"
This may inspire a lot of confidence in a potential buyer.
Well, here goes nothing. This is the first time I've tied to sell a car in about fifteen years ......
bringatrailer.com
24k-Mile 2006 Volvo V70R
Bid for the chance to own a 24k-Mile 2006 Volvo V70R at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #43,481.
@Jlaa I zoomed in on my browser on your license plate and spotted a speck of dust under the "C" in California.....can you please explain yourselfWell, here goes nothing. This is the first time I've tied to sell a car in about fifteen years ......
24k-Mile 2006 Volvo V70R
Bid for the chance to own a 24k-Mile 2006 Volvo V70R at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #43,481.
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@Jlaa, good luck collecting top $$$. Without exaggeration, I believe this is the top-est example of R70 in the USA. You should post pictures of your other cars and their condition, in the comment section so that potential buyers can appreciate even more what kind of car they are buying from what kind of guy
saw the UHT comments on BAT 10 minutes ago and about spit my coffee on the screen!
Where on the engine is that AMG stamping on your old E36?
.....not sure how BAT can let this "E36" auction still stay up there:
- Owner said it was E36, then later said it was 3.2L, then later said he just "blurted out" 3.2 because he doesn't know, but now is "leaning towards" 3.6L
- The fake AMG stickers (I was going to comment yesterday since they look like none of AMG stickers for the '90's I ever saw)
- The pedals that were clearly not put on by AMG
- The peeling E36 rear emblem that looks like someone just bought a chrome one and painted over it
- The falsification of mileage in the BAT desc
- not a single iota of proof yet that its a real 3.6L AMG engine (again, maybe it is, but more and more its getting more difficult to believe that) @ccrelan 's point is a good one, at min there should be an AMG stamping on the engine. Who knows, maybe the seller can produce a photo of one (correction: C36 had an engine stamping, not sure if E36 did.....@ccrelan was your picture from your C36 or did you have an E36 and it was from that?)
....this is the beginning of a dumpster fire
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I took those pictures when we had the C36 engine out of the engine bay of my w124 wagon. Stampings should be on all M104 engines in same places.
I just commented on BAT thread with exact location of one of the stamping numbers- behind the air pump and alternator just above oil pan.
I just commented on BAT thread with exact location of one of the stamping numbers- behind the air pump and alternator just above oil pan.
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This "E36 AMG" on BAT is getting really odd. The seller was asked a question on how the car was advertised on the auction site and apparently he doesn't remember and since he replaced his phone he doesn't have any of the documents. 
He also doesn't seem to be willing to address the question of how the cars export document show 205,600km (128,500 miles) in 2018 and now is being advertised as 36K mile car.
Maybe he drove it in reverse for 90,000 miles.....doesn't that make the speedometer go backwards, or perhaps the car was previously owned by Mr. Peabody and got to spend some time in the "Wayback Machine". Not quite sure which of these is the cause of this, but either make this very explainable.
Anyone want to take a guess on odds BAT Withdraws this auction?
He also doesn't seem to be willing to address the question of how the cars export document show 205,600km (128,500 miles) in 2018 and now is being advertised as 36K mile car.
Maybe he drove it in reverse for 90,000 miles.....doesn't that make the speedometer go backwards, or perhaps the car was previously owned by Mr. Peabody and got to spend some time in the "Wayback Machine". Not quite sure which of these is the cause of this, but either make this very explainable.
Anyone want to take a guess on odds BAT Withdraws this auction?
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Reading through this auction of the "E36 AMG" on BAT, it strikes me that there is such a wide disparity in seller behavior on BaT. Some folks are as transparent as possible (and I can think of so many sellers of E500Es who sold on BaT) and put every piece of documentation up.....This "E36 AMG" on BAT is getting really odd. The seller was asked a question on how the car was advertised on the auction site and apparently he doesn't remember and since he replaced his phone he doesn't have any of the documents.
He also doesn't seem to be willing to address the question of how the cars export document show 205,600km (128,500 miles) in 2018 and now is being advertised as 36K mile car.
......
.... and then there are those sellers who treat the whole selling experience as a "text-message / virtual TINDR swipe" of finding cars to buyers with a cavalier / informal attitude of "yea, sorry, I was under the weather / don't know what the motor is actually" attitude.
The poor sellers make it worse for the sellers who are trying to do the right thing; and the poor sellers' behavior only encourages trolls/haterzzz to hate on EVERYTHING and EVERYONE, because Internet / Yelp / Twitter / Anonymous effect + Jealousy.
Trying to give the seller of that "E36" ( No Reserve: Japanese-Market 1995 Mercedes-Benz E36 AMG Wagon ) the benefit of the doubt, but found this, this does not look good:
(just put this on BAT)
This shows that it was up for auction a number of times in Japan as an E320 and was unsold and then the entry (the top one) of when it sold, it sold as an E320. So someone bought this at auction in Japan as an E320.
https://aaajapan.com/car-history?chassis=WDB1240922F302779&max_date=&year=0
........
He claimed he did not recall what he bought the car as and had none of the documentation.
(just put this on BAT)
This shows that it was up for auction a number of times in Japan as an E320 and was unsold and then the entry (the top one) of when it sold, it sold as an E320. So someone bought this at auction in Japan as an E320.
https://aaajapan.com/car-history?chassis=WDB1240922F302779&max_date=&year=0
........
He claimed he did not recall what he bought the car as and had none of the documentation.
You know well @JAB12 how much work one has to do when buying a '90's AMG to validate it.
BAT just "updated the text" on the auction. Minor discrepancies like, it's not an AMG, it's not an E36 and it has a minimum 90K more miles than represented.
The seller has sold other vehicles on BAT. I wonder if they would have treated an individual seller the same way they treated this dealer?
BAT just "updated the text" on the auction. Minor discrepancies like, it's not an AMG, it's not an E36 and it has a minimum 90K more miles than represented.
The seller has sold other vehicles on BAT. I wonder if they would have treated an individual seller the same way they treated this dealer?
@msq all a thankless job only self rewarded when one is behind the wheel. Highly unlikely that if this would have been a 'regular joe' first time or single time seller, the treatment would have been the same. I suppose listing down and/or suspension or even banishment from BAT would have been in the works. The entire thing is pathetic. They still left the 'AMG pedals' did not correct to 'AMG-style'. Folks. I know this for a fact that AMG in those days did not make OEM metal sport pedals for W124s. MB did and they are unmarked. Those are the ones I sourced and installed in my car. Dead footrest pedal not included. Never existed.
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I wrote a comment @BaH this morning challenging them to, at a bare minimum, correct the copy to reflect the inaccuracies which have come to light. It was worded rather strongly and would never have been published. While I don't think that is what got them off their asses, I do think it may have been a bit jarring for them to read.
This is my 3.6 engine:
Also if you look close the back of the cylinder head is also stamped HWA
I'm sure there were more markings too. That's just off the top of my head. My E36 project car is more authentic than this BAT "E36"
E320 Wagon Listing was just withdrawn by HAT:
bringatrailer.com
No Reserve: Japanese-Market 1995 Mercedes-Benz E320 Wagon
Bid for the chance to own a No Reserve: Japanese-Market 1995 Mercedes-Benz E320 Wagon at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #43,275.
bringatrailer
Hello everyone,
We have been watching this auction closely and appreciate the community weighing in. This is precisely how BaT was designed to work, and our users’ wealth of knowledge never ceases to amaze.
We agree that the best thing to do here is withdraw the car for now so that the seller can verify the engine displacement and mileage. We have been in discussion with him for the last few days, and we hope to re-list the car once some of the question marks have been addressed.
Thanks to the community for sharing your expertise and expressing your thoughts. We apologize for any inconvenience the withdrawal might cause.
-BaT
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