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Electric car impact on fuel availabilty and pricing in future(?)
- Thread starter JC220
- Start date
CA Electricty rates are wild, especially in the Bay Area. That's like 2x Texas and >3x Ontario, insane. They....need to figure this out.
That said....$3 for 40 mi is pretty hard to beat with Bay Area gas prices - you need 50MPG real world and <$5/gal which we haven't seen much. Even if you lose a bit on insurance, you probably win on depreciation (recently that's been appreciation) so total cost of ownership you likely still win. Although maybe your starting price was higher, etc, etc.
That said....$3 for 40 mi is pretty hard to beat with Bay Area gas prices - you need 50MPG real world and <$5/gal which we haven't seen much. Even if you lose a bit on insurance, you probably win on depreciation (recently that's been appreciation) so total cost of ownership you likely still win. Although maybe your starting price was higher, etc, etc.
Auto executives are less confident in EV adoption than they were a year ago
For the U.S., the median expectation for EV sales was 35% of the market by 2030 — down from 65% a year earlier.
KEY POINTS
- KPMG reports automotive executives are less bullish than they were last year about the adoption of electric vehicles.
- The survey found 76% are concerned that inflation and high interest rates will adversely affect their business next year.
- For the U.S., the median expectation for EV sales was 35% of the new vehicle market by 2030 — down from 65% a year earlier.
Reality is slowly, very slowly, setting in. Amazing that otherwise intelligent people seriously believed EV sales could be two-thirds of the market by 2030. The key point here is, by 2030. Sure, maybe a couple decades beyond that...
A ticking milesI keep wondering when my 2015 KIA Optima will grenade itself. It has a 100K mile/10 year power train warranty. So far at 82K miles it’s been bulletproof. I keep thinking that if and when I hit 100,001 miles everything is going to start breaking.
I have had two friends with the same powertrain grendade themselves in the past year. One at 105k / another at 160k. Both had their motors replaced by Kia. Seems like you'll be safe for now, but give it some time and you'll get some fresh metal under the hood...I keep wondering when my 2015 KIA Optima will grenade itself. It has a 100K mile/10 year power train warranty. So far at 82K miles it’s been bulletproof. I keep thinking that if and when I hit 100,001 miles everything is going to start breaking.
Better hope your KIA does not have the THETA 2.4L engine. We had this in our Hyundai Tucson and it lunched itself @ 120K km. Total rod bearing failure. We had a knock down drag out fight with Hyundai Canada but eventually came out somewhat on top. Nightmare I tell ya. Check for recalls on your engine and make triple sure you follow all the recall advice to the letter. It was the only thing that saved our a$$...I keep wondering when my 2015 KIA Optima will grenade itself. It has a 100K mile/10 year power train warranty. So far at 82K miles it’s been bulletproof. I keep thinking that if and when I hit 100,001 miles everything is going to start breaking.
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Listing parts in Sweden for Kia Optima K5 2.4 Gasoline.
Waterpump: https://www.autodoc.se/sealey/15182006 966,50 Swedish krona converts to 92.59 U.S Dollars
Bearing Kit: https://www.autodoc.se/kolbenschmidt/12973332 643.11 Swedish krona converts to 61.61 U.S Dollars
It's not so bad afterall.
Waterpump: https://www.autodoc.se/sealey/15182006 966,50 Swedish krona converts to 92.59 U.S Dollars
Bearing Kit: https://www.autodoc.se/kolbenschmidt/12973332 643.11 Swedish krona converts to 61.61 U.S Dollars
It's not so bad afterall.
I'm still kinda shocked Kia/Hyundai hasn't gotten more flack for that engine thing. From what anecdata I've seen it seems like it's pretty bad - like tons of engines sploding randomly regardless of owner care. Maybe because those cars are pretty anonymous, but it seems like it's way worse then the Porsche 996 IMS Debacle, and probably worse than the Ford Dual clutch thing.
I know I'm way off topic, but I just had to post this, I laughed my ass off:
www.thedrive.com
600K-Mile Kia Sorento Driver Milks 10-Year Warranty for 9 Engines
A viral Reddit post about the high-mile Sorento only tells part of the story.
www.thedrive.com
I’ve only received 1 recall. Can’t recall the mileage probably around 60K. All they did was de-tune the engine a little. I think they retarded the timing. That’s it.
Dang…. Just catching up on threads after a two month hiatus…
Finally got the invitation to place an order for an F-150. Was hoping for a $40k - $7500 subsidy funded by y’all peasants turns out to be a $80k truck because ford limited the lower trim levels and raised prices. And, with the winter weather, people are reporting 100-150 mile range on 80k trucks and that too with Ford’s advice on not to use the heat and instead rely on ass warmer and heated steering (which they are removing because of chip shortages).
Fook that…. I’ll keep driving my beater Ford at 10mpg.
But the acceleration and the handling on the electric f-150 is insane. So looking forward to electrification but not at the schedule that king Inslee or Grandpa Joey or uncle newsom are pushing for….
Finally got the invitation to place an order for an F-150. Was hoping for a $40k - $7500 subsidy funded by y’all peasants turns out to be a $80k truck because ford limited the lower trim levels and raised prices. And, with the winter weather, people are reporting 100-150 mile range on 80k trucks and that too with Ford’s advice on not to use the heat and instead rely on ass warmer and heated steering (which they are removing because of chip shortages).
Fook that…. I’ll keep driving my beater Ford at 10mpg.
But the acceleration and the handling on the electric f-150 is insane. So looking forward to electrification but not at the schedule that king Inslee or Grandpa Joey or uncle newsom are pushing for….
An article worth reading:
https://archive.ph/pcjK3
By Allysia Finley
Dec. 25, 2022 6:20 pm ET
A Tesla Model 3 at a charging station in Colonie, N.Y., Nov. 22.
PHOTO: PAUL HENNESSY/ZUMA PRESS
Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda recently caused the climate lobby to blow a fuse by speaking a truth about battery electric vehicles that his fellow auto executives dare not. “Just like the fully autonomous cars that we were all supposed to be driving by now,” Mr. Toyoda said in Thailand, “I think BEVs are just going to take longer to become mainstream than the media would like us to believe.” He added that a “silent majority” in the auto industry share his view, “but they think it’s the trend, so they can’t speak out loudly.”
The Biden administration seems to believe that millions of Americans will rush out to buy electric vehicles if only the government throws enough subsidies at them. Last year’s infrastructure bill included $7.5 billion in grants for states to expand their charging networks. But it’s a problem when even the states are warning the administration that electric vehicles aren’t ready to go mainstream.
Maine notes in a plan submitted to the Federal Highway Administration this summer that “cold temperatures will remain a top challenge” for adoption, since “cold weather reduces EV range and increases charging times.” When temperatures drop to 5 degrees Fahrenheit, the cars achieve only 54% of their quoted range. A vehicle that’s supposed to be able to go 250 miles between charges will make it only 135 miles on average. At 32 degrees—a typical winter day in much of the country—a Tesla Model 3 that in ideal conditions can go 282 miles between charges will make it only 173 miles.
Imagine if the 100 million Americans who took to the road over the holidays were driving electric cars. How many would have been stranded as temperatures plunged? There wouldn’t be enough tow trucks—or emergency medics—for people freezing in their cars.
The Transportation Department is requiring states to build charging stations every 50 miles along interstate highways and within a mile of off-ramps to reduce the likelihood of these scenarios. But most state electrical grids aren’t built to handle this many charging stations and will thus require expensive upgrades. Illinois, for one, warns of “challenges related to sufficient electric grid capacity, particularly in rural areas of the state.”
Charging stations in rural areas with little traffic are also unlikely to be profitable and could become “stranded assets,” as many states warn. Wyoming says out-of-state traffic from non-Tesla electric vehicles would have to increase 100-fold to cover charger costs under the administration’s rules. Tesla has already scoped out premier charging locations for its proprietary network. Good luck to competitors.
New Mexico warns that “poor station maintenance can lead to stations being perpetually broken and unusable, particularly in rural or hard to access locations. If an EV charging station is built in an area without electrical capacity and infrastructure to support its use, it will be unusable until the appropriate upgrades are installed.”
Arizona says “private businesses may build and operate a station if a grant pays for the first five years of operations and maintenance” but might abandon the project if it later proves unprofitable. Many other states echo this concern, noting that federal funds could result in stranded assets.
The administration aims to build 500,000 stations, but states will likely have to spend their own money to keep them running. Like other federal inducements, these grants may entice states to assume what could become huge financial liabilities.
Federal funds also come with many rules, including “buy America” procurement requirements, which demand that chargers consist of mostly U.S.-made components. New Jersey says these could “delay implementation by several years” since only a few manufacturers can currently meet them. New York also says it will be challenging to comply with the web of federal rules, including the National Environmental Policy Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Uniform Relocation Assistance and Real Property Acquisition Policies Act of 1970, and a 1960 federal law that bars charging stations in rest areas.
Oh, and labor rules. The administration requires that electrical workers who install and maintain the stations be certified by the union-backed Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Training Program. New Mexico says much of the state lacks contractors that meet this mandate, which will reduce competition and increase costs.
Technical problems abound too. Virginia says fast-charging hardware “has a short track record” and is “prone to malfunctions.” Equipment “previously installed privately in Virginia has had a high failure rate shown in user comments and reports on social media,” and “even compatibility with credit card readers has been unexpectedly complicated.”
A study this spring led by University of California researchers found that more than a quarter of public direct-current fast-charging stations in the San Francisco Bay Area were unusable. Drivers will be playing roulette every time they head to a station. If all this weren’t disconcerting enough, Arizona warns cyber vulnerabilities could compromise customer financial transactions, charging infrastructure, electric vehicles and the grid.
Politicians and auto makers racing to eliminate the internal-combustion engine are bound to crash into technological, logistic and financial realities, as Mr. Toyoda warned. The casualties will be taxpayers, but the administration doesn’t seem to care.
https://archive.ph/pcjK3
Not So Fast on Electric Cars
Toyota’s CEO delivers a timely warning, and many states echo it.
By Allysia Finley
Dec. 25, 2022 6:20 pm ET
A Tesla Model 3 at a charging station in Colonie, N.Y., Nov. 22.
PHOTO: PAUL HENNESSY/ZUMA PRESS
Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda recently caused the climate lobby to blow a fuse by speaking a truth about battery electric vehicles that his fellow auto executives dare not. “Just like the fully autonomous cars that we were all supposed to be driving by now,” Mr. Toyoda said in Thailand, “I think BEVs are just going to take longer to become mainstream than the media would like us to believe.” He added that a “silent majority” in the auto industry share his view, “but they think it’s the trend, so they can’t speak out loudly.”
The Biden administration seems to believe that millions of Americans will rush out to buy electric vehicles if only the government throws enough subsidies at them. Last year’s infrastructure bill included $7.5 billion in grants for states to expand their charging networks. But it’s a problem when even the states are warning the administration that electric vehicles aren’t ready to go mainstream.
Maine notes in a plan submitted to the Federal Highway Administration this summer that “cold temperatures will remain a top challenge” for adoption, since “cold weather reduces EV range and increases charging times.” When temperatures drop to 5 degrees Fahrenheit, the cars achieve only 54% of their quoted range. A vehicle that’s supposed to be able to go 250 miles between charges will make it only 135 miles on average. At 32 degrees—a typical winter day in much of the country—a Tesla Model 3 that in ideal conditions can go 282 miles between charges will make it only 173 miles.
Imagine if the 100 million Americans who took to the road over the holidays were driving electric cars. How many would have been stranded as temperatures plunged? There wouldn’t be enough tow trucks—or emergency medics—for people freezing in their cars.
The Transportation Department is requiring states to build charging stations every 50 miles along interstate highways and within a mile of off-ramps to reduce the likelihood of these scenarios. But most state electrical grids aren’t built to handle this many charging stations and will thus require expensive upgrades. Illinois, for one, warns of “challenges related to sufficient electric grid capacity, particularly in rural areas of the state.”
Charging stations in rural areas with little traffic are also unlikely to be profitable and could become “stranded assets,” as many states warn. Wyoming says out-of-state traffic from non-Tesla electric vehicles would have to increase 100-fold to cover charger costs under the administration’s rules. Tesla has already scoped out premier charging locations for its proprietary network. Good luck to competitors.
New Mexico warns that “poor station maintenance can lead to stations being perpetually broken and unusable, particularly in rural or hard to access locations. If an EV charging station is built in an area without electrical capacity and infrastructure to support its use, it will be unusable until the appropriate upgrades are installed.”
Arizona says “private businesses may build and operate a station if a grant pays for the first five years of operations and maintenance” but might abandon the project if it later proves unprofitable. Many other states echo this concern, noting that federal funds could result in stranded assets.
The administration aims to build 500,000 stations, but states will likely have to spend their own money to keep them running. Like other federal inducements, these grants may entice states to assume what could become huge financial liabilities.
Federal funds also come with many rules, including “buy America” procurement requirements, which demand that chargers consist of mostly U.S.-made components. New Jersey says these could “delay implementation by several years” since only a few manufacturers can currently meet them. New York also says it will be challenging to comply with the web of federal rules, including the National Environmental Policy Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Uniform Relocation Assistance and Real Property Acquisition Policies Act of 1970, and a 1960 federal law that bars charging stations in rest areas.
Oh, and labor rules. The administration requires that electrical workers who install and maintain the stations be certified by the union-backed Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Training Program. New Mexico says much of the state lacks contractors that meet this mandate, which will reduce competition and increase costs.
Technical problems abound too. Virginia says fast-charging hardware “has a short track record” and is “prone to malfunctions.” Equipment “previously installed privately in Virginia has had a high failure rate shown in user comments and reports on social media,” and “even compatibility with credit card readers has been unexpectedly complicated.”
A study this spring led by University of California researchers found that more than a quarter of public direct-current fast-charging stations in the San Francisco Bay Area were unusable. Drivers will be playing roulette every time they head to a station. If all this weren’t disconcerting enough, Arizona warns cyber vulnerabilities could compromise customer financial transactions, charging infrastructure, electric vehicles and the grid.
Politicians and auto makers racing to eliminate the internal-combustion engine are bound to crash into technological, logistic and financial realities, as Mr. Toyoda warned. The casualties will be taxpayers, but the administration doesn’t seem to care.
Also tangentially related:
https://archive.ph/Nyi0l
www.wsj.com
By The Editorial Board
Dec. 26, 2022 4:48 pm ET
As temperatures plunged this weekend, Americans in much of the country were told to turn down their thermostats and avoid using large appliances to prevent rolling blackouts. The cascading grid stress came at an awful time but was all too predictable to anyone paying attention.
The interconnected U.S. grid is supposed to be a source of resilience, but the government’s force-fed green energy transition is creating systemic vulnerabilities that politicians don’t want to acknowledge. Utilities and grid operators weren’t prepared for the surge in demand for natural gas and electricity to heat homes, which occurred as gas supply shortages and icy temperatures forced many power plants off-line.
The PJM Interconnection, which provides electricity to 65 million people across 13 eastern states, usually has surplus power that it exports to neighboring grids experiencing shortages, but this time it was caught short. Gas plants in the region couldn’t get enough fuel, which for public-health reasons is prioritized for heating.
Coal and nuclear plants can’t ramp up like gas-fired plants to meet surges in demand, so PJM ordered some businesses to curtail power usage and urged households to do the same through Christmas morning. Rolling blackouts were narrowly averted as some generators switched to burning oil. Americans in the southeast weren’t so lucky.
The Tennessee Valley Authority and Duke Energy in the Carolinas ordered rolling blackouts as demand for heating surged. Two-thirds of the South relies on electricity for heating. While gas-power generation doubled in the TVA and tripled in the Carolinas, this wasn’t enough to keep the lights on and homes heated.
The climate lobby wants to force all homes and buildings to shift to electric heating even though it is less efficient than gas furnaces in frigid weather. When temperatures fall below freezing, heat pumps consume more and more power. “With a generation fleet that is more nat gas heavy than ever before, we are using twice as much gas to heat homes through electricity as we do with gas furnaces,” former Federal Energy Regulatory Commission Chairman Pat Wood told Bloomberg.
Population growth in the Sun Belt has increased the strain on the grid—even as large numbers of coal and nuclear plants that provide baseload power have shut down owing to competition from heavily subsidized renewables and cheap natural gas. The Texas grid has become especially dependent on wind and gas.
Natural gas is usually a reliable power source that can ramp up when demand increases or wind power flags. But in very cold temperatures pipes can freeze and gas is diverted for heating. On Friday morning, wind power and temperatures in Texas both plunged. As electric demand hit a winter record, gas power generation doubled.
Worries about a gas shortage spurred the U.S. Department of Energy on Saturday to declare a grid emergency in Texas and ease emissions standards to allow gas plants to burn oil if necessary. Don’t tell hapless Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm, but oil comes to the grid’s rescue during extreme weather—not lithium-ion batteries, which can’t discharge power for more than a few hours.
New England leaned on oil to generate 40% of its power this weekend even as its grid operator pleaded with customers to conserve power. New York’s embargo on gas pipelines limits supply to New England, which depends on gas for heating and increasingly electricity as coal and nuclear plants have closed. But the region can’t import enough liquefied natural gas in a pinch.
While there wasn’t a single cause for the power shortages, government policies to boost renewables snowballed and created problems that cascaded through the grid. The North American Electric Reliability Corporation warned about these system-wide grid vulnerabilities in a report last month, as did a study commissioned by the Trump Department of Energy in 2017.
The climate lobby dismisses such warnings and blamed the weekend’s power outages on the “bomb cyclone” supposedly caused by climate change. But storms happened before climate change became the default political explanation for everything. The Christmas emergency was a near-run disaster, and unless the political class wakes up, next time may be worse.
https://archive.ph/Nyi0l
Opinion | The Christmas Electric Grid Emergency
Strain caused by climate policies left too many Americans shivering over the weekend. Worse is coming.
www.wsj.com
The Christmas Electric Grid Emergency
Strain caused by climate policies left too many Americans shivering over the weekend. Worse is coming.
By The Editorial Board
Dec. 26, 2022 4:48 pm ET
As temperatures plunged this weekend, Americans in much of the country were told to turn down their thermostats and avoid using large appliances to prevent rolling blackouts. The cascading grid stress came at an awful time but was all too predictable to anyone paying attention.
The interconnected U.S. grid is supposed to be a source of resilience, but the government’s force-fed green energy transition is creating systemic vulnerabilities that politicians don’t want to acknowledge. Utilities and grid operators weren’t prepared for the surge in demand for natural gas and electricity to heat homes, which occurred as gas supply shortages and icy temperatures forced many power plants off-line.
The PJM Interconnection, which provides electricity to 65 million people across 13 eastern states, usually has surplus power that it exports to neighboring grids experiencing shortages, but this time it was caught short. Gas plants in the region couldn’t get enough fuel, which for public-health reasons is prioritized for heating.
Coal and nuclear plants can’t ramp up like gas-fired plants to meet surges in demand, so PJM ordered some businesses to curtail power usage and urged households to do the same through Christmas morning. Rolling blackouts were narrowly averted as some generators switched to burning oil. Americans in the southeast weren’t so lucky.
The Tennessee Valley Authority and Duke Energy in the Carolinas ordered rolling blackouts as demand for heating surged. Two-thirds of the South relies on electricity for heating. While gas-power generation doubled in the TVA and tripled in the Carolinas, this wasn’t enough to keep the lights on and homes heated.
The climate lobby wants to force all homes and buildings to shift to electric heating even though it is less efficient than gas furnaces in frigid weather. When temperatures fall below freezing, heat pumps consume more and more power. “With a generation fleet that is more nat gas heavy than ever before, we are using twice as much gas to heat homes through electricity as we do with gas furnaces,” former Federal Energy Regulatory Commission Chairman Pat Wood told Bloomberg.
Population growth in the Sun Belt has increased the strain on the grid—even as large numbers of coal and nuclear plants that provide baseload power have shut down owing to competition from heavily subsidized renewables and cheap natural gas. The Texas grid has become especially dependent on wind and gas.
Natural gas is usually a reliable power source that can ramp up when demand increases or wind power flags. But in very cold temperatures pipes can freeze and gas is diverted for heating. On Friday morning, wind power and temperatures in Texas both plunged. As electric demand hit a winter record, gas power generation doubled.
Worries about a gas shortage spurred the U.S. Department of Energy on Saturday to declare a grid emergency in Texas and ease emissions standards to allow gas plants to burn oil if necessary. Don’t tell hapless Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm, but oil comes to the grid’s rescue during extreme weather—not lithium-ion batteries, which can’t discharge power for more than a few hours.
New England leaned on oil to generate 40% of its power this weekend even as its grid operator pleaded with customers to conserve power. New York’s embargo on gas pipelines limits supply to New England, which depends on gas for heating and increasingly electricity as coal and nuclear plants have closed. But the region can’t import enough liquefied natural gas in a pinch.
While there wasn’t a single cause for the power shortages, government policies to boost renewables snowballed and created problems that cascaded through the grid. The North American Electric Reliability Corporation warned about these system-wide grid vulnerabilities in a report last month, as did a study commissioned by the Trump Department of Energy in 2017.
The climate lobby dismisses such warnings and blamed the weekend’s power outages on the “bomb cyclone” supposedly caused by climate change. But storms happened before climate change became the default political explanation for everything. The Christmas emergency was a near-run disaster, and unless the political class wakes up, next time may be worse.
Tangential is being kind IMO. I don’t think the two issues are connected at all, really.
I also don’t think trying to make BEV travel anywhere near as ubiquitous as 50 state car travel anytime soon is a worthwhile goal. For me, BEV cars make sense in urban areas for short haul multiple run situations (work commute, kid duties, groceries, etc. — daily life shit, not driving across the country.) And MAYBE for long haul semis that can carry much larger batteries with them. Maybe.
We should focus on bulletproofing those use cases first (all chargers in cities working per 99% SLA, etc.) and deal with rural areas last. And the reason is simple — urban areas are where most of the travel, congestion and environmental impact occurs. Fixing that alone will accomplish most climate goals. The rest can wait. Trying to BEV grid the whole country is silly, again IMO.
I also doubt that’s what the administration is actually trying to accomplish. It’s just that when the federal government hands out money, it has to at least be written like every state can theoretically take advantage, even if they only want certain high population states to really use the money. If they limited the funds to states with metropolitan statistical areas in excess of 2 million people, we could all see it being hung up in court.
maw
I also don’t think trying to make BEV travel anywhere near as ubiquitous as 50 state car travel anytime soon is a worthwhile goal. For me, BEV cars make sense in urban areas for short haul multiple run situations (work commute, kid duties, groceries, etc. — daily life shit, not driving across the country.) And MAYBE for long haul semis that can carry much larger batteries with them. Maybe.
We should focus on bulletproofing those use cases first (all chargers in cities working per 99% SLA, etc.) and deal with rural areas last. And the reason is simple — urban areas are where most of the travel, congestion and environmental impact occurs. Fixing that alone will accomplish most climate goals. The rest can wait. Trying to BEV grid the whole country is silly, again IMO.
I also doubt that’s what the administration is actually trying to accomplish. It’s just that when the federal government hands out money, it has to at least be written like every state can theoretically take advantage, even if they only want certain high population states to really use the money. If they limited the funds to states with metropolitan statistical areas in excess of 2 million people, we could all see it being hung up in court.
maw
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Another twist. Now your choice in EV could be viewed as a political statement? 
** Correction to John's article: No tailpipe emissions is not the same as no carbon emissions. EV's still pollute, they just pollute elsewhere, and hopefully less overall.
Op-Ed: I bought a Tesla to help the environment. Now, I'm embarrassed to drive it
Opinion by John Blumenthal"Because of the recent revelation of Elon Musk’s political views — all of which I abhor — I’m starting to worry about what sort of political statement the car is making. Will people see me as ... a living oxymoron?
I don’t know whether to sell, but I do know that I’m just not as comfortable driving it anymore. It’s a beautifully designed car with no carbon emission**, and initially, I was proud of owning it and being seen driving a vehicle that displayed my concern for the environment. But ... if Musk’s politics don’t change radically for the better, driving a Tesla will become, at least for me, as hypocritical and untenable as driving a gas guzzler was."
** Correction to John's article: No tailpipe emissions is not the same as no carbon emissions. EV's still pollute, they just pollute elsewhere, and hopefully less overall.
whenever i pullup to a tesla (usually some young, boring looking mfk'er) on the highway, i always let'em know what a real car sounds like as i zip passed themAnother twist. Now your choice in EV could be viewed as a political statement?
I do notice alot more EVs on the road here in Ireland.
One thing I find slightly bizarre is that many of these have alot of LED day time running lights up front, during the day. This appears somewhat vein and unnecessary to me. I mean it must also reduce the car's range having these all on during the day.
It's kind of like a ICE car going around with a flare alight on the bonnet - totally useless!
One thing I find slightly bizarre is that many of these have alot of LED day time running lights up front, during the day. This appears somewhat vein and unnecessary to me. I mean it must also reduce the car's range having these all on during the day.
It's kind of like a ICE car going around with a flare alight on the bonnet - totally useless!
I have been recently enjoying watching these YouTube videos from "Out of Spec Reviews" which cover various roadtrips across the USA with a video journal of the charging station experience for EVs. The vehicles range from Tesla to Rivian to Porsche and everything in between. What is fascinating to me is the practical experience of long range roadtripping with a BEV.
Right now, if you go to any gas station you know 91 Octane gas is 91 Octane gas. In general you don't have to think about gas "quality" or how fast the gas pump operates. These videos show the practical side of road tripping in a BEV from say San Diego to Denver or doing an East Coast trip from New York to Florida (which is now a massively improved experience). Some of the videos show that it can be a crapshoot to find the "fastest" charger and one that is working. There there is the issue of the Charging Network Operator (e.g. Electrify America) vs the hardware manufacturer of the charger, vs the peak KW charge rating of the particular charger you are at. My wife would kill me if I put her through some of the BEV experiences captured in these videos.
For my wife I am considering replacing my wife's 2014 MB E350 with an electric vehicle but her vehicle usage is 99% within a 100 miles from home so my garage charger will be her primary recharge experience. But this keeps me firmly in the ICE camp for a vehicle intended for road tripping (S63 AMG Coupe for me please). For now, my wife and I will pursue what we call Plan B = do nothing, her Mercedes is operating just fine. It has been a great CPO purchase for us.
This year end summary and overview of the charging networks over Xmas break (a peak travel event in frigid temps) is an informative snapshot of the current state of the USA charging networks (no surprise that Tesla is best-in-class as their charging network is 100% vertically integrated).
EDIT: to start the video at the most informative section on the status the Electrify America CCS charging network
Right now, if you go to any gas station you know 91 Octane gas is 91 Octane gas. In general you don't have to think about gas "quality" or how fast the gas pump operates. These videos show the practical side of road tripping in a BEV from say San Diego to Denver or doing an East Coast trip from New York to Florida (which is now a massively improved experience). Some of the videos show that it can be a crapshoot to find the "fastest" charger and one that is working. There there is the issue of the Charging Network Operator (e.g. Electrify America) vs the hardware manufacturer of the charger, vs the peak KW charge rating of the particular charger you are at. My wife would kill me if I put her through some of the BEV experiences captured in these videos.
For my wife I am considering replacing my wife's 2014 MB E350 with an electric vehicle but her vehicle usage is 99% within a 100 miles from home so my garage charger will be her primary recharge experience. But this keeps me firmly in the ICE camp for a vehicle intended for road tripping (S63 AMG Coupe for me please). For now, my wife and I will pursue what we call Plan B = do nothing, her Mercedes is operating just fine. It has been a great CPO purchase for us.
This year end summary and overview of the charging networks over Xmas break (a peak travel event in frigid temps) is an informative snapshot of the current state of the USA charging networks (no surprise that Tesla is best-in-class as their charging network is 100% vertically integrated).
EDIT: to start the video at the most informative section on the status the Electrify America CCS charging network
TLDR: Tesla remains the only reliable long distance BEV charging network, unless you are an early adopter geek, hold off on your BEV purchase for long distance road tripping, unless you want a Tesla.
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Over on the audi etron forum, this gentleman documented a one month, 9400 mile circuit of the USA.
www.e-tronforum.com
Sure, the Telsa Supercharger network is best in class for availability and locations, but the charging speeds aren't. And the Tesla's in-car GOM (range estimator a/k/a guess-o-meter) truly sucks.
Bottom Line: It ain't always easy being green.
Cross-Country Road Trip
The countdown is on! I start my cross-country road trip next Sunday, June 5. All in, it looks like I will cover about 8500 miles [ABRP map summary below]. It’s been a while since I’ve done a long road trip in any car, let alone an EV. The longest I did in either the RS7 or the R8 was about 1500...
Sure, the Telsa Supercharger network is best in class for availability and locations, but the charging speeds aren't. And the Tesla's in-car GOM (range estimator a/k/a guess-o-meter) truly sucks.
Bottom Line: It ain't always easy being green.
Tesla's Good
www.kron4.com
Tesla's Bad
nypost.com
Tesla's Ugly
EDIT: Just to add some personal commentary:
The first story has to be one of the most incredible auto-related incidents I've ever read. The whole thing. Surviving a 250 ft drop. The incredible rescue. OMG.
The Autopilot thing bugs me nearly every time I venture out. SO many idiots think that system is there for them to read books or do their nails. IMO, the system should be called Tesla Sideswipe, because I cannot count the number of times Tesla idiots have regained "control" of their cars and promptly switched lanes into me.
Finally, a big shout out to all the TSLA humpers who were trying to keep that run past 1200 going.
Two children, two adults rescued after Tesla travels off cliff at Devil's Slide
SAN MATEO COUNTY, Calif. (KRON) — Four people were rescued after a Tesla they were traveling in careened off a roadway in San Mateo County on Monday afternoon, according to a statement from C…
www.kron4.com
Tesla's Bad
Sleepy driver puts Tesla on autopilot, sends police on high-speed chase in Germany
A drowsy driver in Germany had his license revoked after he fell asleep behind the wheel of his Tesla — which had been driving on autopilot and accidentally led police on a 15-minute pursuit.
nypost.com
Tesla's Ugly
EDIT: Just to add some personal commentary:
The first story has to be one of the most incredible auto-related incidents I've ever read. The whole thing. Surviving a 250 ft drop. The incredible rescue. OMG.
The Autopilot thing bugs me nearly every time I venture out. SO many idiots think that system is there for them to read books or do their nails. IMO, the system should be called Tesla Sideswipe, because I cannot count the number of times Tesla idiots have regained "control" of their cars and promptly switched lanes into me.
Finally, a big shout out to all the TSLA humpers who were trying to keep that run past 1200 going.
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This isn't a good user experience either:
www.washingtonexaminer.com
December 25, 2022 05:58 PM
A Virginia radio host didn't get exactly what he asked for this Christmas.
Domenick Nati, 44, shared a video on social media on Christmas Eve, showing viewers that his electric car from Tesla would not charge despite being plugged in. To make matters worse, it was 19 degrees Fahrenheit outside when the vehicle first refused to charge on Friday.
When Nati saw that his Tesla S battery was at 40% on Friday, he stopped to plug it in. However, he explained that "two hours went by and not much changed."
"It was very slow, and the numbers got lower as the temperature dropped. Eventually, it stopped charging altogether," he added.
On Christmas Eve, he decided to try and charge the vehicle again, to no avail. "Battery is heating — keep charge cable inserted," he recalled the car saying. The battery had gained no charge an hour later.
"I have no other vehicle, so I decided to see if it just needed more time. Hours went by, and with only 19 miles left to empty, I chose to leave the car plugged in and get a ride back to my house," Nati continued.
He also claims Tesla's customer support did not respond to him about the issue.
Ultimately, he was forced to cancel his holiday plans because the car would not charge and there were no available rideshares in his area.
WATCH: Tesla owner documents being stranded on Christmas Eve when car wouldn't charge
A Virginia radio host didn't get exactly what he asked for this Christmas.
www.washingtonexaminer.com
Tesla owner documents being stranded on Christmas Eve when car wouldn't charge
by Julia Johnson, Trending News EditorDecember 25, 2022 05:58 PM
A Virginia radio host didn't get exactly what he asked for this Christmas.
Domenick Nati, 44, shared a video on social media on Christmas Eve, showing viewers that his electric car from Tesla would not charge despite being plugged in. To make matters worse, it was 19 degrees Fahrenheit outside when the vehicle first refused to charge on Friday.
When Nati saw that his Tesla S battery was at 40% on Friday, he stopped to plug it in. However, he explained that "two hours went by and not much changed."
"It was very slow, and the numbers got lower as the temperature dropped. Eventually, it stopped charging altogether," he added.
On Christmas Eve, he decided to try and charge the vehicle again, to no avail. "Battery is heating — keep charge cable inserted," he recalled the car saying. The battery had gained no charge an hour later.
"I have no other vehicle, so I decided to see if it just needed more time. Hours went by, and with only 19 miles left to empty, I chose to leave the car plugged in and get a ride back to my house," Nati continued.
He also claims Tesla's customer support did not respond to him about the issue.
Ultimately, he was forced to cancel his holiday plans because the car would not charge and there were no available rideshares in his area.
Ugh - looks like the Tesla driver is gonna go to prison for attempting to kill everyone in the car by driving off the cliff?
CHP says Tesla plunge at Devil's Slide was intentional, driver arrested for attempted murder
The driver has been placed under arrest for attempted murder and child abuse after intentionally driving off the cliff in his car with one adult and two kids inside, the CHP said.
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Personally I think alternative energy vehicles (not necessarily battery electric) will gain widespread adoption if two things happen:
1). The price point goes down from being “plaything of rich liberal coastal elites” to mass market pricing [like usd 30-35K)
2). The charge speed and range is not inferior to similarly priced Gasoline Electric hybrids (like the new 2024 Prius)
We need less virtue signaling like this guy : Commentary: I bought a Tesla to help the environment. Now, I’m embarrassed to drive it
and more mass market efforts like this (bravo GM) GM targets the masses with its $30,000 all-electric Chevrolet Equinox SUV
1). The price point goes down from being “plaything of rich liberal coastal elites” to mass market pricing [like usd 30-35K)
2). The charge speed and range is not inferior to similarly priced Gasoline Electric hybrids (like the new 2024 Prius)
We need less virtue signaling like this guy : Commentary: I bought a Tesla to help the environment. Now, I’m embarrassed to drive it
and more mass market efforts like this (bravo GM) GM targets the masses with its $30,000 all-electric Chevrolet Equinox SUV
Chargepoint is going to have to level up their game to be taken seriously. At present, they're the punchline to a terrible joke. Their idea of a DC Fast Charge is anything above 25kw or thereabouts. Which is basically unusable unless you're at an office or a hotel.
Ugh - looks like the Tesla driver is gonna go to prison for attempting to kill everyone in the car by driving off the cliff?
CHP says Tesla plunge at Devil's Slide was intentional, driver arrested for attempted murder
The driver has been placed under arrest for attempted murder and child abuse after intentionally driving off the cliff in his car with one adult and two kids inside, the CHP said.abc7news.com
Death penalty. End of story.
I know it won't happen, but that's the appropriate punishment.
I'll take them as hotel and office runners in urban settings only, for starters. Roll out from there. Too many people drive from house to office to school to grocery store in a 20 mile radius, day after day after day after year, to ignore that benefit. All arguments to the contrary are more political than pragmatic.
maw
THIS use case is the perfect candidate for an EV: ^^^
Well, as long as you have a dirty carbon-spewing fossil burner, for when you need to travel outside the 20-mile radius.
This is exactly what I do and I represent the perfect use case …. But I will not spend $60K plus (that’s serious money) for this use case!!!!
$25K or maaaaaaaybe $30K and I would spend it, provided I could drive the thing into the ground over a 10 year period.
If you're driving 20 miles per day and you own a BEV, then you can easily get by with a Level 1 home charger plugged into a regular outlet.
It's 25 miles roundtrip into a town with a Walmart. And I don't exactly live in flyover country.
@Jlaa, nobody is owning a BEV beyond the eight year battery warranty period. It would be financial suicide. You need to adjust that cocktail napkin analysis just a bit.
The goal for MB is to try and have a network of reliable DC fast chargers, up to 350kW, across the USA where MB owners have premium access with reservation capabilities and tie it into the vehicle navigation software. Press release says goal to complete 400 hubs by 2027. Now we just need to sit back and see if they can execute and make network as reliable and convenient as Tesla's. As others have noted, ChargePoint's network is a bit of a joke right now.
Mercedes-Benz to launch global branded high-power charging network, starting in North America
Mercedes-Benz to launch global branded high-power charging network, starting in North America
I watched Matt Farah do his thing with a new Merc EQE AMG. I was very surprised to learn that its onboard charger is limited to 170kwh (this is charge rate, not capacity, not range). Which isn't anywhere close to the best out there.
Mercedes is selling a pipe dream, IMO. It's going to be a whole another generation before they get this fast charging thing figured out.
He spends precious little time actually addressing the question posed in the video title
Mercedes is selling a pipe dream, IMO. It's going to be a whole another generation before they get this fast charging thing figured out.
He spends precious little time actually addressing the question posed in the video title
Hmmm. I wonder the the warranties will go longer in the future. I buy new daily driver cars on a ten year cycle. Any more frequent for me is being wasteful with my shekels.If youre driving 20 miles per day and you own a BEV, then you can easily get by with a Level 1 home charger plugged into a regular outlet.
Its 25 miles roundtrip into a town with a Walmart. And I dont exactly live in flyover country.
@Jlaa, nobody is owning a BEV beyond the eight year battery warranty period. It would be financial suicide. You need to adjust that cocktail napkin analysis just a bit.
Why do we need BEVs to go hundreds of miles? Why not just have BEV for the in town stuff, and a plug in hybrid for roadtrips?
I think I read that that would the biggest bang for our “environmental dollars” given the finite amount of resources to make batteries on the earth …. That allocating our finite battery making resources to 100K cars with 350mile range is, wholistically, a lot less efficient than spreading out those resources to lots and lots of cheaper and lesser range cars (when it comes to being green).
The Bill Gates quote seems applicable here: “Most people overestimate what they can do in one year and underestimate what they can do in ten years.”
I think in 10 years or less these reliable DC fast charging networks will exist. But definitely won't be there next year.
@Jlaa you're at the extreme tail end of the financial literacy curve, so you're not anyone's core customer. Your financial competency hurdles are too high. You should just buy the USED BEV for that use case, or reverse engineer the battery tech, or find a startup to refurbish them, or something.This is exactly what I do and I represent the perfect use case …. But I will not spend $60K plus (that’s serious money) for this use case!!!!
$25K or maaaaaaaybe $30K and I would spend it, provided I could drive the thing into the ground over a 10 year period.
maw
EDIT... word on the street is the real competition for Teslas comes from the Uber drivers. If I hear another Uber driver telling me how much financial sense the car makes...
If you throw enough money at the infrastructure problem it could be solved. But Mercedes is selling cars today that won't be able to take advantage of true high rate charging. That's the problem.
Tesla charges at 250kw. My Audi can run at 270kw. Lucid Air goes 297kw.
These are the specs that will matter to informed BEV buyers who are going to actually rack up the miles on their cars. IMO.
Charging away from home is a truly miserable activity.
I have a basic question because I am completely inexperienced at this. If charging away from home is miserable, then how come I see so many people doing it?
Like, if I go to some rando strip mall thing in the suburbs here (like Best Buy off US101 just north of Mountain View, CA) the Tesla charging stations, like all 12 of them, are always all totally full and at least half of the charging Teslas have owners who are not actually shopping but are standing around, in their full Tesla-bro glory, in weird dorky poses, just …… waiting around …….waiting ……… waiting ……… like wth man?
. Don’t these guys just charge at home??? Is this some weird rite of passage / flex thing to stand around in a parking lot, awkwardly, while waiting for electrons to do their thing?Like it happens everywhere. I go to Lucky supermarket in SF at lakeshore, BAM, tesla bros and VW ID4 bros standing around.
Safeway supermarket on Taraval - same - Tesla and ID4 bros, standing around. ???
I mean I can understand standing around awkwardly at the gas station to fill up your car ……. But standing around awkwardly in a suburban setting (not roadtrip bufu area) to charge?!?!?!?!?!
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Ace,
Thanks for sharing, I just figuring out these details, because the cars themselves are beautiful but the actual charging experiences on long distance trips is a crap shoot involving so many variables. I just looked up the Taycan and...
"Porsche Taycan models with the larger 93.4 kWh battery are capable of ultra-rapid charging at up to 270 kW DC, and Taycan models with the 79.2 kWh battery are able to charge at up to 225 kW DC"
Thanks for sharing, I just figuring out these details, because the cars themselves are beautiful but the actual charging experiences on long distance trips is a crap shoot involving so many variables. I just looked up the Taycan and...
"Porsche Taycan models with the larger 93.4 kWh battery are capable of ultra-rapid charging at up to 270 kW DC, and Taycan models with the 79.2 kWh battery are able to charge at up to 225 kW DC"
I have no idea. But you'll have to trust me on this... it's absolutely miserable. No protection from the elements. Cables that are dirty as hell from laying on the ground. Time ticking by.... just waiting for the software to decide you've reached the limit.I have a basic question because I am completely inexperienced at this. If charging away from home is miserable, then how come I see so many people doing it?
Like, if I go to some rando strip mall thing in the suburbs here (like Best Buy off US101 just north of Mountain View, CA) the Tesla charging stations, like all 12 of them, are always all totally full and at least half of the charging Teslas have owners who are not actually shopping but are standing around, in their full Tesla-bro glory, in weird dorky poses, just …… waiting around …….waiting ……… waiting ……… like wth man?
Maybe it's a hookup spot? I don't really don't know.
Oh dear SHOTS FIRED!!!!
. I rode in a Uber Tesla the other day too. Was the driver competing with himself? 
I mean if you are a dorky male software engineer looking for love amongst other dorky male software engineers then I guess so?
Jiaa,
If you are not in a Tesla you are venturing into a bit of a crapshoot. Wouldn't be a problem for you but for a normal person (i.e. my wife) she would kill me if I forced her into an experience like that.
Jlaa, from that YouTuber I follow, with Tesla, no problem. They have a reliable charging network and charging hardware, properly maintained.
If you are not in a Tesla you are venturing into a bit of a crapshoot. Wouldn't be a problem for you but for a normal person (i.e. my wife) she would kill me if I forced her into an experience like that.
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