722.6 transmission - original oil (yellow 236.10) never changed from new

[voytec]

Hello Folks,

I must admit that this is my very first time like I am joining online forum, usually I was able to work out things myself and with my mechanics, until now...
I have searched through many records but still cannot pull out anything that would clarify in 100%, therefore could you please help, and if I missed anything on forum, could you please drop me a link or clue, or both

I have a 722.6 transmission that needs:
a) immediate fluid top up due to pulsating noise when cold, which almost goes away when warm
b) entire fluid change (have appointment in 2 weeks) as it has never been done in my opinion, but there are questions appearing with no answers so far

I have just purchased Febi dipstick and checked the level, which is clearly 2 - 2.5 cm below required level, gears are incredibly smooth but pulsating noise is assisting when accelerating. I was looking to make a top up and here is where the problem starts.

Fluid is light yellow in color, almost clear, which would indicate that 236.10 oil is been used from the day 1 and possibly never changed over 20 years.
There are no yellow in color fluids available around in Ireland after initial search - I have been thinking to let my mechanic perform static change, using identical color and specification fluid.

Would anyone know where could I purchase such oil.
Can I use different color fluid with the same specs of 236.10 for top up and static change.

Or do I need to tie up with MB for dynamic change and hope they would have 236.10. And does it matter if new 236.10 will be in red, with no harm to the gearbox.

I would prefer to avoid using thinner ones.

Please advise.

Thanks in advance.

 

[voytec]

apologies for small mistake in post title, should be 236.10 obviously..

 

[Markus-MD]

on the dippstick are two marks.one sign the stand with 25 grad and the other with 85 grad. The tempertur is only see with stardiagnos in D or R not in P or N.And you cant take the Enginewatertemp .The gearbox are with normal drive a lizzle bit cooler.Maybe after an 30min drive are equal.
Mb Changes the fluid often.Take one with MB spec for 722.6 and good.Wich Mark is your choise.
Its the same as good whisky or i prefer Portwine. what do you prefer take it.

 

[gsxr]

Fluid is light yellow in color, almost clear, which would indicate that 236.10 oil is been used from the day 1 and possibly never changed over 20 years.
There are no yellow in color fluids available around in Ireland after initial search - I have been thinking to let my mechanic perform static change, using identical color and specification fluid.

Would anyone know where could I purchase such oil.

I'm not aware of any source for the original, undyed, yellow-color fluid. I'm also not sure if that was ever sold by Mercedes, all the fluids I remember seeing were dyed red.

Can I use different color fluid with the same specs of 236.10 for top up and static change.

Absolutely. No issues mixing the fluids.

Or do I need to tie up with MB for dynamic change and hope they would have 236.10. And does it matter if new 236.10 will be in red, with no harm to the gearbox.

The fluid spec is the important part, not the color. There will be no harm to the gearbox switching to 236.10 fluid dyed red.

I would prefer to avoid using thinner ones.

I feel the same way and also prefer the original, thicker, ~7.5 CSt viscosity 236.10 fluid spec. You will need to review the spec sheets of various fluids that are "suitable for" or "compatible with" 236.10 spec. Mercedes superceded to 236.12 and then 236.14 specs, both of which are thinner viscosity, for fuel economy... and they say to use the new thinner fluid. I've been using Red Line D4 for my 722.6 but that may be very expensive in UK, I'm sure you can find other suitable 7.5 CSt fluids locally.

Don't forget to check / replace the electrical connector at the transmission during the fluid change. Only use the OE/dealer filter, which I believe is still made in Germany, while the aftermarket ones are Chinese. Ditto for the pan gasket, OE/Genuine only. And, open up the TCU (computer) and make sure it's not filled with fluid wicked up the wiring harness... this is a common problem.


BTW, welcome to the forum!

 

[voytec]

Thanks for a quick reply Markus-MD.

the main part of my concern is whether I can perform static change, where not all the oil will be drained, and having older and thicker oil still in the system, I would assume I should go with the same specification oil at least, otherwise I will have 2 completely different oils, not the same grade and different color, I am guessing this is not good combination for transmission.

I wonder whether there is an oil available currently such as 236.10, preferably yellow or clear, if not available, can I use any other, no matter what color, as long as it meets 236.10 criteria.

can I top up existing yellow 236.10 with a bit of red 236.10?

To use any type of oil recommended by MB, I would have to go for full drain by dynamic change more likely.
Most of senior MB techs does recommend to use older type 236.10 as that one was designed for these gearboxes in 90s.
MB usually recommends newer types of oil as that is what they have in stock, doesn't meant they are 100% good for your transmission.

I haven't mentioned, but I owned/restored several (15+) Merc cars (out of nearly 50 in total) and I am familiar with oil checks etc. I just never had yellow 236.10 in the transmission before surprisingly.

thanks again!

​

 

[gsxr]

can I top up existing yellow 236.10 with a bit of red 236.10?

Yes - no issues with this at all. The yellow fluid is just lacking the red dye. The first car I bought years ago with a 722.6 also had yellow fluid still in the pan. Come to think of it, the second one I bought also still had the factory yellow fluid.

To use any type of oil recommended by MB, I would have to go for full drain by dynamic change more likely.
Most of senior MB techs does recommend to use older type 236.10 as that one was designed for these gearboxes in 90s.
MB usually recommends newer types of oil as that is what they have in stock, doesn't meant they are 100% good for your transmission.

I agree 100%. The 722.6 was originally designed for the thicker 7.5 CSt 236.10 fluid, the later/thinner fluids were introduced to meet government fuel economy requirements. The thinner fluid is ok, but the EGS adaptations should be reset after changing to a different viscosity fluid, so the TCU will re-learn adaptations.

I haven't mentioned, but I owned/restored several (15+) Merc cars (out of nearly 50 in total) and I am familiar with oil checks etc. I just never had yellow 236.10 in the transmission before surprisingly.

Wow! That's a lot of cars! Have you met your neighbor @JC220 who is also a Merc enthusiast?

 

[TerryA]

@voytec,

WHAT MODEL MB is your 722.6 trans attached to?

When you order the new trans filter get the one from the 500SL or SL500 it has a different pickup that slides and is supposed to be better. I don’t know the part number but it was recommended by my Trans Guy who has since retired. Somebody here will know the part number.

If you’ve restored around 50 MBs you have a lot in common with @JC220 also from Ireland. He is very knowledgeable on MBs.

Hope you stick around and participate.

Take Care

 

[voytec]

Yes - no issues with this at all. The yellow fluid is just lacking the red dye. The first car I bought years ago with a 722.6 also had yellow fluid still in the pan. Come to think of it, the second one I bought also still had the factory yellow fluid.

I agree 100%. The 722.6 was originally designed for the thicker 7.5 CSt 236.10 fluid, the later/thinner fluids were introduced to meet government fuel economy requirements. The thinner fluid is ok, but the EGS adaptations should be reset after changing to a different viscosity fluid, so the TCU will re-learn adaptations.

Wow! That's a lot of cars! Have you met your neighbor @JC220 who is also a Merc enthusiast?

Hi gsxr,

Many thanks for brilliant reply. I managed to pull out some info about color coded oils, where color itself should not have any effect other than visiual. Just need to double check with an experts I regret I haven't joined forum earlier

No, I haven't meet such neighbor, I am afraid that UK is showing on my account as I used company laptop which is automatically assigned to UK, but I am based in Ireland, originally from Poland, which was always flooded with German cars, as well as my dad used to drive Merc mainly.
that is where my weakness for certain models come from
started as a kid with 190s, then W123, multiple W124s, W210, c klass, e klass etc
Currently restoring 2003 smart cabrio brabus and w220 v6

Thanks again!

 

[voytec]

@voytec,

WHAT MODEL MB is your 722.6 trans attached to?

When you order the new trans filter get the one from the 500SL or SL500 it has a different pickup that slides and is supposed to be better. I don’t know the part number but it was recommended by my Trans Guy who has since retired. Somebody here will know the part number.

If you’ve restored around 50 MBs you have a lot in common with @JC220 also from Ireland. He is very knowledgeable on MBs.

Hope you stick around and participate.

Take Care

Hi TerryA,

Thanks for reply.

I have done around 15 MB cars but the rest was a mixture of many other makes. Some regular cars some more interesting. Few BMWs and my new love now - Japanese cars best I had was 1989 Supra 7m gte I suppose, I was an idiot to sell it

Transmission we are discussing belongs to 2005 s280 entry level but lovely car, found it in Dublin few weeks ago with only 90k miles so could not resist to take it. But I will be aiming to go bigger and vintage, will see how it goes.

Thanks for highliting better filter, will look into that.

Cheers

 

[gsxr]

No, I haven't meet such neighbor, I am afraid that UK is showing on my account as I used company laptop which is automatically assigned to UK, but I am based in Ireland, originally from Poland, which was always flooded with German cars, as well as my dad used to drive Merc mainly.
that is where my weakness for certain models come from

Joe is also in Ireland! Yous guys really are neighbors!

Here's a link to his profile:

https://www.500eboard.co/forums/members/jc220.5617/

 

[voytec]

Joe is also in Ireland! Yous guys really are neighbors!

Here's a link to his profile:

https://www.500eboard.co/forums/members/jc220.5617/

I undestand now, UK flag was showing on the day 1, I thoght it will stay this way, but it changed to proper location after a while.

Thanks for clarifying

I have ordered 236.10 Febi fluid by the way, will keep you updated about the progress.
Cheers

 

[JC220]

Hi there - I responded to your PM adding here for posterity

The 722.6 transmissions are generally very reliable so as others said the first step is to get known good fluid, new filter and correct level in there. I use Fuchs Titan fluid I can get the exact type of it. It is the recommended fluid and identical to MB. Sometimes MB dealers will give you the wrong stuff for these older cars so be careful.

Have you got access to Star Diagnostics? On that era of car with 38 pin connector that's the only way you will be able to read and clear all codes. Then with the trans serviced and fluid level etc correct take it for a drive and see what, if any codes come back. It may well be happy after the service and require nothing further.

Caveat is the conductor plates do go in these with age and they are not vin coded so you may want to save going into the trans twice and replace that when at it. Some ebay UK vendors offer quality aftermarket conductor plates. Personally that's what I would do - conductor plate and full service. Clear codes, reset adoptions and see how it does.

 

[voytec]

Hello Lads,

I hope you are well.
I am still struggling with my transmission fluid change. Top up done with Febi 22806 which was described as 236.10, it came however with 236.13 on the label and many other specs below .10, there was no .14 or higher, so assumed I can use it.

Improvement is hardly noticeable, depending on how I drive, temperature etc..

I tried to source original parts from local MB dealer in Galway, but I came across a horror type customer service and after 3 weeks of waiting I still have no parts, only goosebumps when I only think of them. If you have time for horror stories, please see online review in the attachment

Would anyone know the difference between:
1) Febi 236.10, code 30018
2) Febi 236.10, code 22806
I am going bananas with getting this right. Specs looks the same.

Thanks & regards,

P.S. - I reached out to JC220. Brilliant chat so thanks to All again!

 

[JC220]

This is the oil I use for 722.6 FWIW:



This is one of the limited applications where I use Febi parts to service 722.6's with success. So use genuine parts or Febi. (From what I understand you are struggling to get your MB dealer to provide the service parts so ebay or autodoc will have these Febi parts)

Febi filter kit is ref Febi 10098 which contains this:



The electrical bushing should also be replaced any time the transmission is getting serviced. It is Febi ref 36332. Some places are out of stock at the moment so you can also search the MB ref for this part which is: A2035400253



Do you have any means of reading fault codes on your S280 w220? That car would have 0b2 port. There are half decent scanners available such as Foxwel which has about the same functionality as MB star. It will allow you to read and clear any transmission error codes yourself.



I am curious if your car is logging codes and you would want to check this before servicing it with the above parts. For example if speed sensor errors are being logged then the conductor plate would be suspect.

 

[gsxr]

Would anyone know the difference between:
1) Febi 236.10, code 30018
2) Febi 236.10, code 22806
I am going bananas with getting this right. Specs looks the same.

Appears the only difference is the container size, 1L vs 5L.

https://media.partauto.fr/download/BGIF300834_D.pdf

 

[voytec]

Appears the only difference is the container size, 1L vs 5L.

https://media.partauto.fr/download/BGIF300834_D.pdf

Great, thanks for verifying.

 

[voytec]

This is the oil I use for 722.6 FWIW:

View attachment 195142

This is one of the limited applications where I use Febi parts to service 722.6's with success. So use genuine parts or Febi. (From what I understand you are struggling to get your MB dealer to provide the service parts so ebay or autodoc will have these Febi parts)

Febi filter kit is ref Febi 10098 which contains this:

View attachment 195143

The electrical bushing should also be replaced any time the transmission is getting serviced. It is Febi ref 36332. Some places are out of stock at the moment so you can also search the MB ref for this part which is: A2035400253

View attachment 195144

Do you have any means of reading fault codes on your S280 w220? That car would have 0b2 port. There are half decent scanners available such as Foxwel which has about the same functionality as MB star. It will allow you to read and clear any transmission error codes yourself.

View attachment 195145

I am curious if your car is logging codes and you would want to check this before servicing it with the above parts. For example if speed sensor errors are being logged then the conductor plate would be suspect.

Thank you for detailed support. I will order parts today. Just need to find out whether any of the workshops can help me out with full drain, if they can, I can use recommended Titan, otherwise I will stick to 236.10 Febi.

I have a file saved on my mechanics interface, with rather long list of old stored errors, and few current ones. I will definately study that today before parts are purchased. Thank you for reminding about conductor plate and speed sensor tip. Good to know.

 

[voytec]

I know I am drifting away from transmission fluid subject, but I have found below video long time ago when started working with Merc Smart Brabus, showing simple test of different engine oils and the difference in wear of the part. My concern at the time was the turbo, I expected that thinner oil will not grease enough on cold start as it takes a moment to deliver to turbo, I changed back to 10w40, performance is much better.

Just wondering if the same rule applies to transmissions regarding the wear, or will I stop thinking of it and move on... is it really that much important, thinner/thicker when talking about this particular transmission.

 

[JC220]

I know I am drifting away from transmission fluid subject, but I have found below video long time ago when started working with Merc Smart Brabus, showing simple test of different engine oils and the difference in wear of the part. My concern at the time was the turbo, I expected that thinner oil will not grease enough on cold start as it takes a moment to deliver to turbo, I changed back to 10w40, performance is much better.

Just wondering if the same rule applies to transmissions regarding the wear, or will I stop thinking of it and move on... is it really that much important, thinner/thicker when talking about this particular transmission.

I wouldnt speculate much on it to be honest.

The "yellow" fluid you mentioned may appear yellow on the dipstick but when it is drained and viewed in a larger sample it may be red turned a brown tint with normal wear. (Old Red ATF never looks bright red anymore) It normally comes out brown or even black depending on how many miles on the fluid. I think you may be seeing that on the dipstick.

Service it with known good fluid, clear codes and see how it does then.

 

[voytec]

I really wish things were so simple

I will compare colors after the change obviously for learnig purposes

It is really far from brown or red as you can see in the attachments, but it does not mean it wasn't red initially, time can have serious impact after 19 years and all the work transmission has done, car has only 90k miles done though, not sure if that matters much.

The main reason I assesed the initial oil was 236.10 were records that I've found online saying that in 90s MB did not use red fluids, only clear or yellow. And that what it looks like in my case. Fuel filter that I replaced was from 2004, so I thought the fluid hasn't been changed too.

I wish I could spend more time on studying this but I have so much going on, and I work with boats too, working with small outboard engines in meantime, upgarding my 5th dinghy, won't meantion regular job. That is why I keep 'ennoying' you.

I checked all errors this morning, nothing wrong regarding transmission or speed sensor. Some errors related to overhead temp sensor or sensor fan and dash errors, even though everything is working 100%. I will look at that later.

I should have another update in 2 weeks time.

Many thanks for getting back to me. I really appreciate your help.

Chat soon.

 

[gsxr]

The main reason I assesed the initial oil was 236.10 were records that I've found online saying that in 90s MB did not use red fluids, only clear or yellow. And that what it looks like in my case. Fuel filter that I replaced was from 2004, so I thought the fluid hasn't been changed too.

I believe MB may have used non-dyed fluid to determine (for warranty purposes) if 722.6 fluid had been changed, as it was initially marketed as lifetime fill (yes, we now know that was ludicrous).

I think clear/yellow fluid was only available as factory fill? And only red-dyed fluid was available to dealerships for maintenance / repair?

 

[voytec]

Exactly, I cannot recall that MB ever admitted that fluid change is necessary, I think they were rather confident saying there is no need.

Thay gave us cars that were too good at some point, and generally speaking, the quality has dropped after a while in my opinion, just to make sure poeple will buy newer or new cars, what is the point of running such buisness otherwise.

By the way, when I read what I wrote previously, I see errors and letters missing, english is my 4th language so apologies clearly a result of tiredness too

Cheers

 

[voytec]

Hello Lads,

I hope you are keeping well,

after many weeks of trying to source and install broken roof in my Smart Brabus, I finally had time to deal with W220 gearbox yesterday.
Little Merc purchased by Irish music legend, Joe would probably know straight away funny story with that sale, but anyway...

full drain done, all original MB parts and fluid used (236.14), conductor plate changed as well as you suggested, transmission/engine mounts done too by the way, so vibration is gone. Well, conductor plate is Febi, not MB, MB part was 4 times the price of Febi (800 euros!)

Pulsating noise coming from transmission, when accelerating, is completely gone.
I can drive my Merc now as normal with no hesitation

Many thanks for your help and guiding me through it. It was really great.

Best regards!