M119 crank pulley out of time ?

[gerryvz]

You should focus on replacing 6, 8, 14, 16 and 26, yes. Those are the major ones and thankfully the most accessible, as well. The two lower rails (including the "banana" rail next to the chain tensioner don't wear as much as the upper rails do, and also require the engine's front cover to come off. That is pretty much an "engine-out" job. The lower rails get pretty well lubricated with engine oil.

Just get the parts from MB - all of them are relatively inexpensive and will be the best quality. DON'T go aftermarket on these chain rail parts.

If you page through the thread below, you'll find complete photos on all of the aforementioned upper rails.

RESTO PROJECT: M119 / W124 / E500 Engine Top-End Refresh | Member Roadtrips and Project Journals

What with the current "self quarantine" imposed, I thought it a good time to begin a very long-standing project -- the complete refresh and cleaning of the top end of my M119 engine. Note that my E500 has 143K miles on it. There was ZERO issue with running, other than the following small...

www.500eboard.co

A few specific posts relating to these rails are:

• Here
• Here
• Here
• Here
• Here

Chain rail part numbers are here.

 

[E420 97 W210]

You should focus on replacing 6, 8, 14, 16 and 26, yes. Those are the major ones and thankfully the most accessible, as well. The two lower rails (including the "banana" rail next to the chain tensioner don't wear as much as the upper rails do, and also require the engine's front cover to come off. That is pretty much an "engine-out" job. The lower rails get pretty well lubricated with engine oil.

Just get the parts from MB - all of them are relatively inexpensive and will be the best quality. DON'T go aftermarket on these chain rail parts.

If you page through the thread below, you'll find complete photos on all of the aforementioned upper rails.

RESTO PROJECT: M119 / W124 / E500 Engine Top-End Refresh | Member Roadtrips and Project Journals

What with the current "self quarantine" imposed, I thought it a good time to begin a very long-standing project -- the complete refresh and cleaning of the top end of my M119 engine. Note that my E500 has 143K miles on it. There was ZERO issue with running, other than the following small...

www.500eboard.co

A few specific posts relating to these rails are:

• Here
• Here
• Here
• Here
• Here

Chain rail part numbers are here.

Thank you very much for answering, I have a question: must the guides 8, 14 and 26 be broken so that they are out of sync ?

Wouldn't only guides 6, 16 broken be out of sync ?

I am sending you a video of something curious when I turn the crank manually after one or two complete turns the chain makes a pop and a small jump as you can see between the second 09 and 010, is this normal?

 

[gerryvz]

Have you checked your timing at the crankshaft numeric indicator? That should tell you how many degrees (if any) your engine is out of time. You have to "pin" your camshafts and then you can visually look at the timing numbers. If your timing is off, you can probably pin two or three of your four cams, but the others will be close but not able to be pinned.

Just from general experience, there is a good chance that one or both of the upper rails (8 and/or 14) are broken. This is for ALL of these engines. My engine had ~143,000 carefully maintained miles on it and in 2020 I found that I had a broken upper rail, as shown in the photos. #26 doesn't usually break, but should also be replaced.

A broken guide can cause a few degrees out of time.

I don't think that little "pop" is abnormal or bad, no. If I recall correctly, my own engine did this when I rotated it too.

I would ask that The @gsxr also chime in here with his opinion.

 

[E420 97 W210]

Have you checked your timing at the crankshaft numeric indicator? That should tell you how many degrees (if any) your engine is out of time. You have to "pin" your camshafts and then you can visually look at the timing numbers. If your timing is off, you can probably pin two or three of your four cams, but the others will be close but not able to be pinned.

Just from general experience, there is a good chance that one or both of the upper rails (8 and/or 14) are broken. This is for ALL of these engines. My engine had ~143,000 carefully maintained miles on it and in 2020 I found that I had a broken upper rail, as shown in the photos. #26 doesn't usually break, but should also be replaced.

A broken guide can cause a few degrees out of time.

I don't think that little "pop" is abnormal or bad, no. If I recall correctly, my own engine did this when I rotated it too.

I would ask that The @gsxr also chime in here with his opinion.

thank you for replying, yes the engine is out of sync, I've only opened the valve cover on the driver's side, I'm going to open it on the passenger's side to find out the state of the guides, can the broken upper guides (6 and/or 16) cause the lack of sync or would the lower guides (8,14,26) necessarily need to be broken as well ?

 

[E420 97 W210]

thank you for replying, yes the engine is out of sync, I've only opened the valve cover on the driver's side, I'm going to open it on the passenger's side to find out the state of the guides, can the broken upper guides (6 and/or 16) cause the lack of sync or would the lower guides (8,14,26) necessarily need to be broken as well ?

My question is why, even with poor visibility, with a flashlight I can see the guides 14 and 26 and as far as I can see they don't look broken.

 

[gsxr]

... can the broken upper guides (6 and/or 16) cause the lack of sync or would the lower guides (8,14,26) necessarily need to be broken as well ?

6 and 16 should NOT cause the camshafts to be out of time, unless somehow the chain was able to jump a tooth (unlikely, but may be possible).

8 and 14 are the primary causes of cams getting out of sync a few degrees (single digits, not double digits).

 

[E420 97 W210]

6 and 16 should NOT cause the camshafts to be out of time, unless somehow the chain was able to jump a tooth (unlikely, but may be possible).

8 and 14 are the primary causes of cams getting out of sync a few degrees (single digits, not double digits).


View attachment 199453

Wouldn't this small jump in the chain at the second 09 and 010 cause a tooth jump?

Is this normal?

 

[gsxr]

Yep, if you watch the video carefully, the chain DID jump 1 tooth. No, that is not normal. One tooth = 20° off at the crankshaft / balancer.

Do you have the chain tensioner loosened or removed?

 

[E420 97 W210]

Yep, if you watch the video carefully, the chain DID jump 1 tooth. No, that is not normal. One tooth = 20° off at the crankshaft / balancer.

Do you have the chain tensioner loosened or removed?

I didn't do anything to the chain tensioner, I just opened the valve cover and turned the crank by hand.

what could it be?

 

[gsxr]

I didn't do anything to the chain tensioner, I just opened the valve cover and turned the crank by hand.

what could it be?

Not sure, but you need to replace the chain rails and set all 4 camshafts in time per the factory procedure. With all new rails the chain will not jump.

 

[E420 97 W210]

Not sure, but you need to replace the chain rails and set all 4 camshafts in time per the factory procedure. With all new rails the chain will not jump.

Thank you very much for answering, but one more question: the crankshaft point value was made with the 6mm pin passing only in 1 of the cams pointed out in red, the other cam is never aligned so that I can pass both 6mm pins at the same time.

 

[gsxr]

Yes - each of the cams will be out of time differently. At this point it doesn't matter, you'll have to disassemble everything to replace the rails, then set all 4 cams pinned at the same time when re-installing the chain + tensioner.

 

[E420 97 W210]

Yes - each of the cams will be out of time differently. At this point it doesn't matter, you'll have to disassemble everything to replace the rails, then set all 4 cams pinned at the same time when re-installing the chain + tensioner.

thanks, can this whole procedure be done from the top without having to dismantle the front of the engine?

 

[R129 UK]

Yep, if you watch the video carefully, the chain DID jump 1 tooth. No, that is not normal. One tooth = 20° off at the crankshaft / balancer.

Do you have the chain tensioner loosened or removed?

This was my first thought seeing that and with it being directly above the chain tensioner.

 

[gerryvz]

thanks, can this whole procedure be done from the top without having to dismantle the front of the engine?

Yes. I did it in 2020, as shown in the thread / links that I referenced above. I even removed and reassembled the intake cam adjusters, removed all four cam sprockets, etc. Completely possible to do, but you WILL have to remove the front cylinder head covers on both sides (not the cover lower down on the front of the engine). Again.....everything is 100% detailed in my thread.

It's also very well documented in the factory service manual.

 

[E420 97 W210]

Yep, if you watch the video carefully, the chain DID jump 1 tooth. No, that is not normal. One tooth = 20° off at the crankshaft / balancer.

Do you have the chain tensioner loosened or removed?

If the chain tensioner uses oil pressure, wouldn't the fact that the engine is off for a long time cause the tensioner to lose oil pressure and cause the chain to jump?

Could the cause of the lack of synchronization just be the chain tensioner with a broken spring or no oil pressure?

 

[E420 97 W210]

benzsparts does not ship parts to brazil does anyone have a reliable supplier that does ship to brazil ?

 

[gsxr]

If the chain tensioner uses oil pressure, wouldn't the fact that the engine is off for a long time cause the tensioner to lose oil pressure and cause the chain to jump?

Could the cause of the lack of synchronization just be the chain tensioner with a broken spring or no oil pressure?

The chain tensioner is spring loaded in addition to using oil pressure. The chain should still not jump with no oil pressure.

I do not know why your chain jumped. I'd inspect the teeth of the sprocket for abnormal wear.

 

[gerryvz]

benzsparts does not ship parts to brazil does anyone have a reliable supplier that does ship to brazil ?

I believe that AutohausAZ.com or FCPEuro.com will ship internationally.