Any recommendation for winter tires?

[JCM1]

Hi all,
I'll need to use the '92 500E this winter and am based in the Vancouver, Canada area. The forecast is a La Nina bringing cooler than normal temperatures and higher than normal precipitation. I'm currently running Michelin 245/40/18 Pilot Sport A/S 3+ with M/S rating but want to switch to a "Winter" tire. I've done some shopping around and like the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R5. Does anyone have any experience with this winter tire?

All the best,


Joe

 

[geraniumtr]

Joe, A few years ago before I bought my Mini as a 2nd car I used my E320 year round. I ran Nokian Hakkas during the winter months here in upstate NY. Non studded in 195/65/15 size ( standard size for my E320). I also loaded the trunk with 3 50lb bags of rock salt. Car was unstoppable in snow. Never got stuck nor did I skid. Highly recommended. My wife's Volvo has Bridgestone Blizzaks which are also very good and my daughter's Tiguan runs Michelin Ice X, another excellent winter tire. The Nokian and Michelin are $$$.


Regards,


Peter Weissman

 

[M. Schneider]

Hey Joe,
I haven't had any experience with that model of winter Nokian tire; however, the studded winter Nokian on my GTI (225/45/17) was the cat's meow.

The 100 miles between Denver and Vail are suicide without dedicated M/S tires for seven months of the year. You got it right: The Michelin A/S 3+ is white knuckles in any amount of snow or ice. Ask me how I know. The A/S 3+ we once used in all the cars for summer use is now a Pilot Sport A/S 4, IIRC.

Our new '23 MB E-450 wagon and the '20 Subi Outback XT wagon are fitted with Michelin winter M/S ICE -X Snows... The MB is 245/40/19, and the Subi is 235/55/18. . This will be each tire set's second Vail winter season. .. Maybe 6K miles a season. .. A great winter tire!

 

[DerFuror]

My sister has lived deep within the Adirondack mountain region of New York State for decades. Her winter tires have always been Hakkas. She loves them.

I imagine she’ll be considering switching over to them next month.

 

[skikrazey]

Hi Joe,

I have used both tire brands listed below. The Vredestein is my 1st choice. The Nokian is a very close 2nd choice. These tires are developed by people that live with ice & snow most of the year. It is important to have a V speed rating or higher. A tire engineer told me that from V on up, the construction of the tire differs from that of H and lower. Your E5E will handle differently do to having a softer side wall if the speed rating is H or lower.

https://www.vredestein.com/car-suv-tires/products/1582-WINTRAC-PRO/?289=245&354=40&283_1=18&sizes=1

245/40R18 all-weather tires / Nokian Tires

 

[JCM1]

Joe, A few years ago before I bought my Mini as a 2nd car I used my E320 year round. I ran Nokian Hakkas during the winter months here in upstate NY. Non studded in 195/65/15 size ( standard size for my E320). I also loaded the trunk with 3 50lb bags of rock salt. Car was unstoppable in snow. Never got stuck nor did I skid. Highly recommended. My wife's Volvo has Bridgestone Blizzaks which are also very good and my daughter's Tiguan runs Michelin Ice X, another excellent winter tire. The Nokian and Michelin are $$$.


Regards,


Peter Weissman

Thanks Peter! I like the idea of addition weight over the rear tires!
Most appreciated.

Hey Joe,
I haven't had any experience with that model of winter Nokian tire; however, the studded winter Nokian on my GTI (225/45/17) was the cat's meow.

The 100 miles between Denver and Vail are suicide without dedicated M/S tires for seven months of the year. You got it right: The Michelin A/S 3+ is white knuckles in any amount of snow or ice. Ask me how I know. The A/S 3+ we once used in all the cars for summer use is now a Pilot Sport A/S 4, IIRC.

Our new '23 MB E-450 wagon and the '20 Subi Outback XT wagon are fitted with Michelin winter M/S ICE -X Snows... The MB is 245/40/19, and the Subi is 235/55/18. . This will be each tire set's second Vail winter season. .. Maybe 6K miles a season. .. A great winter tire!

Thanks Mike! I recall many terrifying drives on I 70 during the winter months when I lived in Denver and I hear you on the white knuckles with the Michelin A/S3+!

My sister has lived deep within the Adirondack mountain region of New York State for decades. Her winter tires have always been Hakkas. She loves them.

I imagine she’ll be considering switching over to them next month.

Thanks DerFuror! Apparently the new Hakkas A5 has an "ice" rating earning a second mountain icon in addition to the one for winter service [3PMS]

Hi Joe,

I have used both tire brands listed below. The Vredestein is my 1st choice. The Nokian is a very close 2nd choice. These tires are developed by people that live with ice & snow most of the year. It is important to have a V speed rating or higher. A tire engineer told me that from V on up, the construction of the tire differs from that of H and lower. Your E5E will handle differently do to having a softer side wall if the speed rating is H or lower.

https://www.vredestein.com/car-suv-tires/products/1582-WINTRAC-PRO/?289=245&354=40&283_1=18&sizes=1

245/40R18 all-weather tires / Nokian Tires

Hi skikrazey, Thanks for the suggestions. I have Vredestein Quatratrac Pro on my Tesla Model Y for one winter and they worked pretty well although on a trip to Whistler during a snow storm at just freezing temperature was sheer terror as we crept along at snail's pace. That was studded tires or stay home. I appreciate the comments on "v" rating!


Many thanks to you all,
Joe


.

 

[gsxr]

Thanks DerFuror! Apparently the new Hakkas A5 has an "ice" rating earning a second mountain icon in addition to the one for winter service [3PMS]

I didn't know this was a thing! Thanks for the heads-up. Took some searching but I found an article discussing the difference. Looks like this is a new thing from late 2023 and not many winter tyres in USA have the IGS rating yet.

https://www.kaltire.com/en/ice-grip-symbol.html

https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/what-is-the-ice-grip-symbol

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45861084/winter-tires-new-ice-rating-certification/

What do other tire symbols mean? ​

The ice grip symbol joins a handful of other sidewall symbols. Here’s a quick guide:

• Ice grip symbol [IGS]: Superior braking performance on ice.
• Three-peak mountain snowflake [3PMSF]: Strong performance on snow. Learn more in our article: What does the Mountain Snowflake Symbol mean?
• M+S / Mud and Snow: Reliable performance in shoulder seasons. This is technically a 3-season (all-season) tire that hasn’t passed the same snow traction test as a winter tire that bears the three-peak mountain snowflake symbol.

 

[JCM1]

Update!!
I bought the Hakkapellitta R5 winter tires last Wednesday and drove home with them. As is typical here in Vancouver, it was raining and about 11C (52F). On the drive home I passed through some deep water and almost lost control. The lack of surefootedness in the wet conditions scared me and once I returned home I contacted the seller, Kal Tire and explained what had happened. Kal Tire has a 30 day return policy and I asked to exchange the tires for Michelin CrossClimate 2 which was my second choice. The new tires were mounted yesterday and I again returned home in the rain. However, this time the car felt planted and I couln't be happier.

I found a very interesting YouTube veo on the tire that addresses the very same issue I experienced and as the video explains, the Hakkas are WINTER tires and perform verry well when the temperature is low but not so well when it's warmer. If you are considering winter tire beaware that they don't perform very well or at all in warm wet conditions.

All the best,

Joe

 

[gsxr]

Most 3PMSF rated tires are designed for below-freezing temps. Some may be designed for a broader temperature range, and perform reasonably well in 40-50F ambients... others, not so much. Definitely need to research the specific tire in question for the weather where you live, as performance may vary dramatically vs where other people live. Be careful when reading reviews, people's 5-star or 1-star ratings could depend on their location/usage.

I've had Nokian Hakkapellitta R2 SUV on our Land Rover since 2017 and they were pretty good through the snow-rated tread depth, although stopping distance on ice or packed snow was not great. After last winter they were nearing the end of their snow-service tread depth (roughly 50%) so I left them on all summer. They worked fine in summer, and have enough tread left to probably get through at least next summer as well.

Just ordered a set of new Blizzak DM-V2 for this winter ($$$$). Fingers crossed these will have better stopping performance on ice & packed snow... and that they'll be cromulent enough to run in summertime when they get below 50% tread depth.

 

[JCM1]

UPDATE - I've been driving on a new set of Michelin Cross Climate 2 for the last 3 weeks following my return of the Hakkapellitta R5 winter tire and I must say they have exceeded my expectations in our cold wet climate. We have had lots of rain (atmospheric river) with cool near freezing temps and the Cross Climate 2s have provided excellent traction and resistance to hydroplaning. They are rated as "Winter" tires and have the snowflake indicating they are a step up from M + S.

I am also surprised at how quiet they are despite the aggressive tread. I'm a believer so far.......

All the best,


Joe

 

[ace10]

Of course the Michelin is going to perform better in heavy rain. Just look at the design...it has huge continuous channels running from centerline to the shoulders. The Nokian doesn't have that, because it's a serious Winter (borderline Snow) tire. It's got blocky treads and siping for days.

 

[gsxr]

Of course the Michelin is going to perform better in heavy rain. Just look at the design...it has huge continuous channels running from centerline to the shoulders. The Nokian doesn't have that, because it's a serious Winter (borderline Snow) tire. It's got blocky treads and siping for days.

I think the issue here wasn't that the Cross Climate performed better, it was that the Hakkapellitta R5 performed so badly in standing water. I get that it wasn't really designed for standing water, but sheesh, I also expected better from Nokian.