I think I need front LCAs

[Lavaone]

Lots of play in passenger front wheel when raised up. Clicking when steering side to side.

Can someone confirm part numbers and any other “while you’re there . . .” recommendations for other suspension and steering component gotchas.

1994 E500. 155k miles.
Are Lemforders okay?

Saw its recommended in threads to replace boots with genuine MB OEM so will do so.

Thanks in advance.

Charlie

 

[gsxr]

It's unlikely the LCA's are at fault, and the only thing which can fail are the ball joints. However the ball joint must be tested for vertical movement, which requires prying on the LCA with the weight of the car resting on the tire... difficult/impossible to do without a 4-post lift, or the front tires on ramps. Clicking while steering side to side would not be caused by either ball joints or LCA's.

Anyway. Clicking when steering side to side is typically something in the steering linkage: tie rod ends, drag link, or idler arm. Get underneath the car and inspect each of the 6 total joints while moving the wheel in/out (or, while having a friend turn the steering wheel back & forth).

 

[Lavaone]

Ah, thank you for the advice. Will do.

I think I could rationaize the lift, just not the new addition to house it in

 

[Surf Blau]

I literally have the exact same symptoms on my car (your description sounds exactly like I would describe it), and also initially feared the LCAs being at fault - I have since also moved my focus towards the steering linkage and will inspect these components shortly.

@gsxr; I assume these can be checked without load on the wheels, or are they like the LCAs?

 

[lowman]

I literally have the exact same symptoms on my car (your description sounds exactly like I would describe it), and also initially feared the LCAs being at fault - I have since also moved my focus towards the steering linkage and will inspect these components shortly.

@gsxr; I assume these can be checked without load on the wheels, or are they like the LCAs?

The balljoint needs to be compressed ,to check for play. Its a " need to know how it works"...kinda deal. The spring is pressing the LCA downwards....the shock is pulling the balljoint appart from the LCA....so this is why the balljoint needs to be compressed together to observe how much play there is in the balljoint.

 

[nocfn]

Original Idler arm is most likely shot, If you are factory original, I bet that all the steering linkage is gone. There is a nice write up by Ricardo about the Idler Arm in the HOW TO section.

 

[gsxr]

@gsxr; I assume these can be checked without load on the wheels, or are they like the LCAs?

All the steering links can be checked with the car in the air, thankfully... makes the job much easier. If the idler arm bushings are bad you'll see a lot of movement when yanking on it by hand. The idler kit is NLA but the bushings are still available separately (re-use the old hardware).

Note the primary test is checking for lateral (side to side) movement at any joint. You can also do the "squeeze test" with a yuge Channel-Lock type slip-joint pliers. Tie rods should always have zero vertical movement. However, a small amount of vertical movement is normal on the drag link ends - I'm not sure why.

I need to edit / replace the video below, the vertical movement shown in the drag link may be acceptable, as there was zero lateral movement. The video should show a bad tie rod end instead.

 

[Surf Blau]

The balljoint needs to be compressed ,to check for play. Its a " need to know how it works"...kinda deal. The spring is pressing the LCA downwards....the shock is pulling the balljoint appart from the LCA....so this is why the balljoint needs to be compressed together to observe how much play there is in the balljoint.

Understood - I think I can do this by placing the front wheels of the car on the lift and raising it up enough to crawl underneath with some tools.

All the steering links can be checked with the car in the air, thankfully... makes the job much easier. If the idler arm bushings are bad you'll see a lot of movement when yanking on it by hand. The idler kit is NLA but the bushings are still available separately (re-use the old hardware).

Note the primary test is checking for lateral (side to side) movement at any joint. You can also do the "squeeze test" with a yuge Channel-Lock type slip-joint pliers. Tie rods should always have zero vertical movement. However, a small amount of vertical movement is normal on the drag link ends - I'm not sure why.

I need to edit / replace the video below, the vertical movement shown in the drag link may be acceptable, as there was zero lateral movement. The video should show a bad tie rod end instead.

Great info, thanks! Based on my initial (and very much ad-hoc) inspection this weekend I have a strong feeling the tie rods are shot at least - I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the steering linkage needs replacement as well. I might just get all relevant rubber bits and do a full swap once I start working on it, as the car will need an alignment afterwards in any case.

 

[gsxr]

Understood - I think I can do this by placing the front wheels of the car on the lift and raising it up enough to crawl underneath with some tools.

FSM procedure for checking ball joints is at this link.

Great info, thanks! Based on my initial (and very much ad-hoc) inspection this weekend I have a strong feeling the tie rods are shot at least - I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the steering linkage needs replacement as well. I might just get all relevant rubber bits and do a full swap once I start working on it, as the car will need an alignment afterwards in any case.

Yeah, if any of the links are worn, and none are new/recent OE/OEM... I like to replace EVERYTHING. Both tie rod assemblies, drag link (OE only), idler arm bushings, and steering shock. One of the tie rod assemblies is NLA but they are interchangeable left to right, the only difference was the color and shape of the adjustment tube (round vs hex). Search the forum for past discussion on the steering links and part number interchange.

 

[Lavaone]

It's the steering linkage, specifically the right side tie rod end to the part connecting the center link ends. I am confused by the nomenclature. Parts diagrams I can view (I know, get access to the EPC/ISSP) don't even show an idler arm as I would recognize and don't come close to diagraming the steering linkage I see under my car.

Anyway, I'm about to order:

(2) 129-330-03-03 tie rod assemblies
(1) 24-460-14-05 center link
(1) 124-463-04-32-64 steering damper

from classicparts.mbusa.com as shown in the screen capture below.

Any gotchas re: R&R? I'm going to borrow/buy a real press removal tool and will not use a hammer to split ends.

I'm sure I'll need an alignment. Any pointers to a good 124/E500/500E alignment shop here in the North of Boston (Tewksbury) MA area?

As always, thanks in advance,

Charlie

 

[gsxr]

Glad you found the culprit! The idler arm is #8 in the EPC diagram (attached below). This is what the tie rod & drag link attach to on the passenger side (on the driver side, they attach to the steering gearbox Pitman arm). Click here for the HOW-TO on checking the idler arm bushings for play. If there is excess play, the idler arm bushing kit (#14) is NLA but you can order the bushings separately, p/n 129-463-00-50, qty = 2. They are $59 each, ~$45 discount, but may be special order from Germany - most RevParts dealers are showing these as "Currently Unavailable", which is code for "we don't have these in stock in USA".

R&R of tie rod ends & drag link ends is generally not fun. Try to use tools similar to the one shown in the attached photos. Pickle forks do not work well. The drag links tend to be the difficult ones because there isn't space for conventional separation tools, and the factory tool is crazy expensive.

Alignment - if there's an MB dealership near you, call them for a price. Up to around $200 is reasonable-ish today for a dealer alignment. My local dealer wants $300 which I refuse to pay. I found a local indy shop that is only $160. Alternately you can buy a Gyraline kit which claims to work fairly well.

Set the new tie rod assembly lengths as close to the old ones as possible. Even so the toe will be WAY off initially. Use a tape measure across the tire treads, front and rear, as high as you can get towards center. As a rough setting, adjust to zero to about 1/8" toe-in (front of tires closer together vs rear of tire). This measurement will change depending if the wheels are in the air, or on the ground. The measurement on the ground is more critical. Adjusting is a PITA since you need to jack the car up each time (or, raise it on a lift each time). You can measure this before starting to get an idea what the current toe is via tape measure... if you do this, measure both on the ground (before lifting the car), and again with the wheels in the air. Having a second person is very helpful.

 

[geraniumtr]

Lavaone, when I did some steering linkage work on my E320 I borrowed a tool from Autozone which worked quite well. Their version of the Klann tool pictured. Ball joint separator tool, #57308.

Be careful with any of these tools. The joints separate with a lot of force in an instant. Use your ratchet with the longest handle and turn the threaded rod slowly. Keep your body clear of the joint. Not a difficult job.

Regards,

Peter

 

[Lavaone]

Thanks for all the input guys.

I'll buy one of those tools. From what I've read about the idler arm bushings, I might tackle the tie rod ends & drag link ends first and do the bushing later separately. Am I correct that subsequently replacing the idler arm bushings will not require another alignment?

 

[gsxr]

Am I correct that subsequently replacing the idler arm bushings will not require another alignment?

Yes. Only replacing the idler arm bushings does NOT require another alignment.

Check the bushings first. If the end play is very small, you can leave them alone. If they are bad... just do them now. The job really isn't that bad. Last time I did it, with a lift and a beefy impact wench, it only took 45 mins with the car on a lift - details here.

 

[Lavaone]

It’s the lift I’m missing. I’m working under jackstands in a garage with 7-1/2 foot ceilings. At least I’m not in an icy puddle in the middle of a New England winter. It's been 50+ years since I had to do that.

 

[Surf Blau]

FSM procedure for checking ball joints is at this link.

Yeah, if any of the links are worn, and none are new/recent OE/OEM... I like to replace EVERYTHING. Both tie rod assemblies, drag link (OE only), idler arm bushings, and steering shock. One of the tie rod assemblies is NLA but they are interchangeable left to right, the only difference was the color and shape of the adjustment tube (round vs hex). Search the forum for past discussion on the steering links and part number interchange.

I just re-read this thread again, and noticed your specification of the tie rod assemblies being different (round vs hex). On my car one of them is indeed round and the other is hex-shaped - when inspecting I assumed this was due to one of them having been replaced at one point, but reading this it seems more to be the opposite; Them not having been replaced..

Anyway; I am working with my trusted parts dealer to find replacement parts, and they did indeed report the left tie rod assembly to be NLA. The right one is, so I should be good with 2x 1293300303, correct? They are looking into alternate parts from Lemförder, but haven't been successful so far.

They found the steering damper to be NLA as well, but can get me one from Stabilus which they say is the original manufacturer for this part.

For the idler arm kit, they haven't found an alternate source yet, but I'll check if they can just get me the rubbers - I assume the hard parts can be re-used then.

 

[gsxr]

Correct - the left and right tie rod assemblies are interchangeable. The FSM documentation does not adequately explain why MB chose to have a hex tube on one side, round on the other, in different colors as well (Black & Green). If your old hex tube is in good condition, you could swap the new tie rod ends onto the old hex tube.

Steering shock/damper 124-463-04-32 appears to still be available from MB (link), but is overpriced at $119 USD MSRP in USA. As you stated, this is made by Stabilus and available aftermarket for much less, about $30 in USA. I've never purchased the OE shock, always aftermarket Stabilus.

The idler arm kit has been NLA for years, you likely won't find one. Just buy the rubber bushings and re-use the hardware. Most of the hardware is available new if necessary, last I checked only one of the washers or heat shield was NLA in the kit (which is likely why the entire kit went NLA, due to the one small part).

 

[Surf Blau]

Great info, thanks a lot! I didn't inspect the condition of the hex-tube in detail, but that's good to know when I do the work

 

[Surf Blau]

Correct - the left and right tie rod assemblies are interchangeable. The FSM documentation does not adequately explain why MB chose to have a hex tube on one side, round on the other, in different colors as well (Black & Green). If your old hex tube is in good condition, you could swap the new tie rod ends onto the old hex tube.

Steering shock/damper 124-463-04-32 appears to still be available from MB (link), but is overpriced at $119 USD MSRP in USA. As you stated, this is made by Stabilus and available aftermarket for much less, about $30 in USA. I've never purchased the OE shock, always aftermarket Stabilus.

The idler arm kit has been NLA for years, you likely won't find one. Just buy the rubber bushings and re-use the hardware. Most of the hardware is available new if necessary, last I checked only one of the washers or heat shield was NLA in the kit (which is likely why the entire kit went NLA, due to the one small part).

My supplier is reluctant to order the bushings for the idler arm that you refer to further up (A1294630050) as their EPC says these were only used on the 129 chassis - is this correct, or is it just that they were never offered outside of the kit for the 124 chassis for some reason?

 

[gsxr]

My supplier is reluctant to order the bushings for the idler arm that you refer to further up (A1294630050) as their EPC says these were only used on the 129 chassis - is this correct, or is it just that they were never offered outside of the kit for the 124 chassis for some reason?

Your supplier is trusting the EPC too much, lol. In the EPC, for the 124 chassis, only the full kit is shown - not the bushings separately. The kit includes these bushings, which are also shown separately for the 129. Check the part number on the bushings in your car now, you'll see they match.

 

[Surf Blau]

Your supplier is trusting the EPC too much, lol. In the EPC, for the 124 chassis, only the full kit is shown - not the bushings separately. The kit includes these bushings, which are also shown separately for the 129. Check the part number on the bushings in your car now, you'll see they match.

Great, that's what I assumed as well when I saw that only the complete kit was listed for the 124

Thanks again, I'l tell them to proceed with the order then.