500E My front side drivers wheel came off while driving. Need help with part numbers etc and advice on repair shops in Portland OR.

[LONDONER_BENZ]

Hello. Well this wasn't the first post I wanted to write but, it is what it is. I recently bought a high milage 1993 500E on BAT auction site. [Moderator edit - it is the car documented in this thread.]

After having it serviced, I had 500 lovely miles driving it, until I had what I think is called a catastrophic failure of the wheel bearings and hub assembly. Out of the blue, yesterday the car started vibrating and then shaking wildly as I was taking it out for a leisurely spin. I first thought the engine was freezing up. I pulled over and the front drivers side slumped down. Luckily I did not crash or scrape the underside of the car at all.

I got out and saw two lug nits strewn on the ground. The front drivers wheel was attached but missing all the plug nuts and had dropped from the hub assembly. A couple of the lug nuts have snapped in the hub itself. I discovered also that the wheel has a spacer.

The car came with 18″ BBS AMG Aero II two-piece wheels. one came uncoupled. the other three are still attached. I had the car towed home. they could not attach the spare wheel as there was damage to the hub assembly. I am going to take it to a shop on Monday. I have a bunch of questions as I am new to being a vintage Mercedes owner.

I don't know if any of the axle or suspension or brake calibers were damaged but the wheel was still in place when I stopped, so I am hoping for the best.

I am attaching some images of the wheel and the hub assembly. Does anyone know what the OEM part numbers are for what I would need to replace, and if they are discontinued or not, so where I might look to find the parts? Also does the wheel look like it could be repaired or would it need replacing? how will I know if the remaining wheels are safe from a similar incident?

Does anyone have a recommendation for a garage in Portland Oregon that knows their stuff with older Mercedes especially 500E ? I was thinking Hartmann Motors. a few people with older Mercs have mentioned them but it's always good to hear from forum members.

I read somewhere in a thread about different size wheels on a 500e and spacers and the importance of the right lug nut size etc, but I can't seem to find it. Any advice would be gratefully received and appreciated.

Cheers.

 

[Jlaa]

Ugh I am sorry. There looks to be a whole bowl of wrong there - the 66.6mm hub portion of the wheel looks all chewed up, the hub grease cap should not just fall off like that, there is red and not OE green grease there, there looks to be threads cut into the wheel holes which is not right, and those are cone style lug bolts - should they be ball style?

I would pull off all the other wheels and inspect carefully —- are the other wheel sitting on a proper hubcentric spacer? Or are the wheels not supported by the tiny hub and are the lug bolts actually taking the load?

Can we get more pictures to further diagnose?

 

[LONDONER_BENZ]

@Jlaa
Thanks for the reply. I will definitely have the other wheels inspected. I will upload some more pictures. Is there anything specific you were looking to see?

 

[gsxr]

Yikes - that is scary stuff. You are VERY lucky you stopped before the wheel actually detached from the car, which could have damaged the (NLA) fender beyond repair, along with other potential serious damage.

Jlaa is correct, this is a whole bowl of wrong. For starters, those wheels are the wrong offset for the E500E, and someone really wanted to fit these wheels on the wrong application. I think those are 8.5x18 ET44 and meant for the 140 chassis (S-class). So, the PO used a "pass through" type spacer shown in your photos. I'm guessing it's 10-12mm thick? This is a Bad Idea for a number of reasons, one of which is the grease cap won't fit properly. It looks like the spacer may have been hubcentric, but the lip was worn off when the bolts loosened.

Where the PO went wrong (or his shop went wrong - not sure who did this), is they used cone-seat lug bolts instead of the proper ball-seat bolts required for those AMG wheels. Cone seats are found on aftermarket wheels, ball seats are used on all MB and AMG wheels. Also, if those wheels are designed for an S-class with M14 bolts, you would need a hybrid bolt with M12 thread and R14 ball seat. THe ball seat radius (shape) is different between M12 and M14 bolts. Need the MB part number off the back of the wheel to confirm. The wrong lug bolt seat eventually wore the cone-to-ball interface enough to loosen the bolts, with the result shown in your photos.

On the bright side, the brake rotor and hub may be fine. It looks like the primary damage was to the wheel. The wheel may not be repairable, depending how bad the damage is to the center bore (as Jlaa noted), and also how bad the damage is to the ball seat on the 5 lug holes. Bottom line, I would remove those wheels and install a set of wheels/tires in the proper size / offset, a set that does NOT require spacers. And be very, very careful to verify the proper bolts are used. Any wheels from newer chassis with M14 lug bolts will require the special, hybrid M12/R14 bolts mentioned earlier.

Congrats on the purchase, btw, and welcome to the forum! Hopefully your ownership experience will improve going forward, after the wheel issue is sorted. You can start a new "OWNER" thread as well.

 

[gsxr]

UPDATE: On second look at the photos, it seems the spacer was stuck to the brake rotor with black RTV or similar sealant? Why?

Also, check out the wear pattern on the bolts. That tiny contact patch, about 1mm wide, is all that was touching between the wrong cone-seat lug bolt and the wheel's ball seat.

The second photo shows a similar scenario where the wrong ball seat (R12) is used on a wheel that requires R14 lugs. Note the same lack of contact area. As Londoner found out, this is dangerous stuff. Don't screw it up.

 

[steve h]

Hello. Well this wasn't the first post I wanted to write but, it is what it is. I recently bought a high milage 1993 500E on BAT auction site. [Moderator edit - it is the car documented in this thread.]

After having it serviced, I had 500 lovely miles driving it, until I had what I think is called a catastrophic failure of the wheel bearings and hub assembly. Out of the blue, yesterday the car started vibrating and then shaking wildly as I was taking it out for a leisurely spin. I first thought the engine was freezing up. I pulled over and the front drivers side slumped down. Luckily I did not crash or scrape the underside of the car at all.

I got out and saw two lug nits strewn on the ground. The front drivers wheel was attached but missing all the plug nuts and had dropped from the hub assembly. A couple of the lug nuts have snapped in the hub itself. I discovered also that the wheel has a spacer.

The car came with 18″ BBS AMG Aero II two-piece wheels. one came uncoupled. the other three are still attached. I had the car towed home. they could not attach the spare wheel as there was damage to the hub assembly. I am going to take it to a shop on Monday. I have a bunch of questions as I am new to being a vintage Mercedes owner.

I don't know if any of the axle or suspension or brake calibers were damaged but the wheel was still in place when I stopped, so I am hoping for the best.

I am attaching some images of the wheel and the hub assembly. Does anyone know what the OEM part numbers are for what I would need to replace, and if they are discontinued or not, so where I might look to find the parts? Also does the wheel look like it could be repaired or would it need replacing? how will I know if the remaining wheels are safe from a similar incident?

Does anyone have a recommendation for a garage in Portland Oregon that knows their stuff with older Mercedes especially 500E ? I was thinking Hartmann Motors. a few people with older Mercs have mentioned them but it's always good to hear from forum members.

I read somewhere in a thread about different size wheels on a 500e and spacers and the importance of the right lug nut size etc, but I can't seem to find it. Any advice would be gratefully received and appreciated.

Cheers.

If you need a replacement front hub, I have one off a 1993 model & it is mint

 

[gsxr]

UPDATE 2: Forgot to mention - if there is any contamination in the wheel bearing grease, at a minimum the hub should be removed to have the bearings cleaned, inspected, and re-greased. New bearings are dirt cheap and would be a good idea anyway. If the hub needs replacement (if the bolt threads are damaged beyond repair), install new bearings in the donor hub. Make sure the shop uses the OE/Genuine Mercedes neon-green wheel bearing grease.

 

[LONDONER_BENZ]

If you need a replacement front hub, I have one off a 1993 model & it is mint

hi Steve, thanks for the note. I imagine I will need a new front hub. It's drivers side. I am hopefully taking the car in to a repair shop today to have it inspected, but the hub looks pretty mangled to my untrained eye.

 

[LONDONER_BENZ]

UPDATE 2: Forgot to mention - if there is any contamination in the wheel bearing grease, at a minimum the hub should be removed to have the bearings cleaned, inspected, and re-greased. New bearings are dirt cheap and would be a good idea anyway. If the hub needs replacement (if the bolt threads are damaged beyond repair), install new bearings in the donor hub. Make sure the shop uses the OE/Genuine Mercedes neon-green wheel bearing grease.

@gsxr thank you so much for your help and advice.
I have a spare set of wheels that the PO included in the sale, will take some photos of those and post them later when I get home.

 

[steve h]

hi Steve, thanks for the note. I imagine I will need a new front hub. It's drivers side. I am hopefully taking the car in to a repair shop today to have it inspected, but the hub looks pretty mangled to my untrained eye.

I have both sides, off a low mileage 500E. Even the bearings would not need changing. See attached photo

 

[gsxr]

hi Steve, thanks for the note. I imagine I will need a new front hub. It's drivers side. I am hopefully taking the car in to a repair shop today to have it inspected, but the hub looks pretty mangled to my untrained eye.

The photo only shows the wheel bearing clamp nut, and the bolt holes. The surface/flange is the brake rotor, not the hub.

I'm not seeing any obvious damage to the hub, assuming the broken lug bolt can be extracted. A competent shop will let you know for sure. Just make sure it's not the type of shop that will tell you to replace everything to help pay for their kid's college tuition.

 

[LONDONER_BENZ]

Really appreciate the information and advice. Here's some photos of the wheel and some more photos of the area. Hoping together the car towed to a shop today. I also have a spare set of wheels that came with the car too. Will post them later. Hopefully they are a decent option until I decide on the ultimate set up.

 

[LONDONER_BENZ]

@gsxr these are the spare set of wheels. doing some digging to see if they are the proper size/offset.

 

[gsxr]

Spare set of wheels are original / correct for the car! Just make sure to use the factory lug bolts (M12x1.5 thread, 40mm shank length, ball seat - standard MB lugs).

The 18" AMG wheels are designed for the S-class (140 chassis) and are meant for M14 bolts, so they should have used the hybrid lug bolts I described earlier.

 

[maw1124]

A few pics of the standard wheel on the car, to save you some looking. There are plenty of other pics around here.

Cheers and welcome to the forum

maw

 

[LONDONER_BENZ]

@maw thanks for posting. think I am going to go with the standard and then figure out what set up will be on my Wishlist.
cheers. Curious to know what's your poison when it comes to wheels?

 

[doolar]

@maw thanks for posting. think I am going to go with the standard and then figure out what set up will be on my Wishlist.
cheers. Curious to know what's your poison when it comes to wheels?

Sorry to see this happening to you and your car, but you got away ”lucky” if I may say so here. Glad the damages seems reasonable.

The tires on the AMG wheels seems to be winter tires too, so unless you’re heading for some snow driving you’ll be glad to see them gone I bet.

Regarding wheels a lot of us here went through phases of having lower cars with bigger wheels to ending up with the stick 16” wheels you have. I’m myself there, but it’s all what you think look good and gives the desired road feel and grip. It’s all compromises.

I would stay away from any wheels that require spacers. Spacers alter the suspension setup in a way that was never intended. Sure, a 5 mm spacer probably won’t affect things much.

The Evo2 wheels are very nice on our cars, 17”, wider than stock and contemporary. A great looking wheel. This is my car with the Evos:



I’ve sold them and are now running the stock wheels, I really like the ride and the look:



If I were you, I’d fit the stock wheels you have, the tires on them are Contis manufactured in 2021 from what I can tell, so as long as they’re well balanced, (I’ve never owned any car that’s so sensitive to unbalanced wheels as the W124, 5 grams off may be felt) they will be excellent. Try it out and see what you think, not only in looks, but how the car drives on them.

 

[maw1124]

@maw thanks for posting. think I am going to go with the standard and then figure out what set up will be on my Wishlist.
cheers. Curious to know what's your poison when it comes to wheels?

Do what you like, stay away from spacers if possible, 18" is probably the largest diameter, I prefer square over staggered, and I try to keep AMG wheels off nonAMG cars, having owned a separate AMG car longer than this one.

But I think literally everyone here may have different opinions. Here's a good starter thread ... Wheel preferences that look good on e500/500e | Wheels and Tires

GL and enjoy!

maw