W124 Hammer?

[Goran124]

Not sure if there is already a thread like this, but I couldn’t find one.

I was wondering which pre-Hammer and Hammer versions were actually produced.
We all know about the 6.0-4V M117, but there were also 5.4L and 5.6L versions. I can’t find reliable information on whether those engines were also 4-valve per cylinder conversions, or if they remained the standard 2-valve setup.

I recently found a 1986 W124 with an M117 5.6L 2-valve engine. The car shows many typical Hammer-specific modifications (rear axle, firewall, interior and other details), but it is clearly not a 4-valve engine and would require a full restoration.
I would really appreciate any detailed information about these 2-valve Hammer / pre-Hammer versions.

Thanks in advance.

 

[AMG5PT4]

5.4L was pre-1986 M117, so no Hammers were made at this displacement. I believe the very first Hammer was a 5.6L and all the rest were 6.0L (except one US Hammer that was 6.6L). Hammers by definition are W124 sedan/coupe/wagon with the 32-valve 4 cam M117 engine. Any other engine is not a Hammer.

 

[Goran124]

I know what a Hammer is, but this ‘thing’ I found is interesting — and it’s not a 4-valve.
On top of that, it also has armored windows…

 

[gsxr]

5.4L was pre-1986 M117, so no Hammers were made at this displacement. I believe the very first Hammer was a 5.6L and all the rest were 6.0L (except one US Hammer that was 6.6L).

The 6.6L is news to me... I was not aware of anything over 6.0-6.1L built in the 1980's. Is there any printed info on this unicorn?

Hammers by definition are W124 sedan/coupe/wagon with the 32-valve 4 cam M117 engine. Any other engine is not a Hammer.

10000% correct!!! 2-valve heads are just 124's with a V8. I've seen the term "mallet" used with these, lol.

Edit: GSXR's definition of a Hammer is any 1980's-built 124 chassis (W124, C124, S124) with M117 DOHC engine. Whether the smaller 5.6L DOHC qualifies or not for the "Hammer" moniker, may be splitting hairs.

 

[WDB748372]

The 6.6L is news to me... I was not aware of anything over 6.0-6.1L built in the 1980's. Is there any printed info on this unicorn?

I remember seeing the 6.6L at the AMG gathering in Chicago over the summer. I believe the thread is here on this forum.

 

[gerryvz]

Yes, the “Hammer-creep” phenomenon has always irked me. People calling 2V M117s in W124s Hammers, or 5.6L or 6.0L engines (2V or 4V) in W124 and W/C126 chassis cars as Hammers.

Even a 560SEC/SEL with a 6.0 4V AMG M117 **IS NOT BY DEFINITION, A HAMMER.**

A “Hammer” by the classic 1980s definition is a W124 sedan (and perhaps a coupe or a certain wagon or two) with a 4V, 6.0L displacement AMG M117 engine in it. Not an AMG M119, not a 5.6L 2/4V AMG M117, not an M117/9 hybrid ….. strictly a 124 chassis with an AMG 4V 6L M117.

 

[weide1]

I recently found a 1986 W124 with an M117 5.6L 2-valve engine. The car shows many typical Hammer-specific modifications (rear axle, firewall, interior and other details), but it is clearly not a 4-valve engine and would require a full restoration.
I would really appreciate any detailed information about these 2-valve Hammer / pre-Hammer versions.

Show us some images please. Thanks in advance.

 

[gsxr]

I remember seeing the 6.6L at the AMG gathering in Chicago over the summer. I believe the thread is here on this forum.

Thanks for the link! I forgot about that car. AFAIK, it was NOT built as a 6.6L originally. It's possible that the engine was rebuilt later on in larger displacement. However I've seen zero evidence that this particular Hammer has 6.6L of displacement. I'd love to see proof though.

 

[alibo70]

While it may not be a Hammer, the Mallet and potentially this car could have the subframe, GT rear end, battery relocated etc., do you call it a baby Hammer? Interesting these builds show up and also maybe more Hammers slipped through than we know.

 

[gerryvz]

The number of true "Hammers" (i.e. W/C/S124 with 6.0L four-cam AMG-fettled M117) is pretty well known and documented. It's even well documented here on this forum, and there are a number of expert members on 500Eboard, both in Germany and the US. Not to mention people like Hartmut Feyhl, of RENNtech, who worked for AMG and AMG North America back in the day when all Hammers were built.

I don't think there are any true "undiscovered" Hammers that slipped through the cracks. @jhodg5ck? @2phast? @weide1? Any thoughts or input on this?

There was even a recent thread here containing photos of AMG Hammer data plates.

And some interesting context here.

 

[puchak]

I saw that "6.6L" as well in Chicago, I don't recall it being that big. I want to say it was a 6.2L. The car was with We Are Curated, they don't seem to show it much anywhere on the internet. One of the brothers over there has worked on it, and @jhodg5ck definitely knows a thing or two about it.

I was told that the engine that was swapped in failed or something, so it got rebuilt in the 6+ liter configuration. It is definitely not a 6.0L, I know that for a fact. It also had custom valve covers.

 

[gsxr]

I was told that the engine that was swapped in failed or something, so it got rebuilt in the 6+ liter configuration. It is definitely not a 6.0L, I know that for a fact.

Right - it's entirely possible that it could be 6.1-6.6L today, after a rebuild with modifications.

But there was NEVER any 6.6L built in the 1980's by AMG.

 

[puchak]

I dug around a little more, there is this video but he doesn't seem to talk about any higher displacement?

There is also a photo of the car found here, with the badge having 6.6 on it. I want to say it was modified way down the line but honestly I'm way out of line talking here lol.

 

[weide1]

I dug around a little more, there is this video but he doesn't seem to talk about any higher displacement?

There is also a photo of the car found here, with the badge having 6.6 on it. I want to say it was modified way down the line but honestly I'm way out of line talking here lol.

And that's exactly what's happening now.
There are certain people who know exactly what Hammer models and their specifications are.
But they don't want this information shared online.

 

[gsxr]

I dug around a little more, there is this video but he doesn't seem to talk about any higher displacement?

There is also a photo of the car found here, with the badge having 6.6 on it. I want to say it was modified way down the line but honestly I'm way out of line talking here lol.

I vaguely recall @jhodg5ck mentioning a 6.6L build, but this was a full-custom deal done very recently - like, in the last 3-5 years.

 

[AMG5PT4]

The one of one 6.6L Hammer Coupe is alive and well at Jono’s shop and is owned by one his clients. It was built by AMG N America and the customer had a custom crankshaft commissioned. Signal Red over Palomino. Just saw it yesterday. The car was tucked away in a long time owned collection and came to surface 3-4 years ago

 

[Goran124]

The 6.6L is news to me... I was not aware of anything over 6.0-6.1L built in the 1980's. Is there any printed info on this unicorn?

Never heard of 6.6L

 

[Goran124]

Does anyone have reference photos of the modifications AMG carried out on the W124 when fitting the M117 engine?
I’m specifically looking for details related to the rear axle, suspension, firewall, and structural reinforcements.

Unfortunately, the seller has not given permission to share the photos publicly. I am only allowed to send the images directly to AMG for verification.

Any original documentation or reference images would be greatly appreciated.

 

[weide1]

@Goran124 Try Jonathan. He has internal documents. Instagram

"Unfortunately, the seller has not given permission to share the photos publicly. I am only allowed to send the images directly to AMG for verification".​

Yes. It's becoming more and more limited. I've had to give my word to certain people not to post publicly, otherwise they won't send me pictures anymore.

I always thought that owners of very special cars wanted to show them off to the world. Especially to the enthusiasts on the forums.

I was wrong.

 

[WDB748372]

I recently found a 1986 W124 with an M117 5.6L 2-valve engine.

I'm guessing it's the following car. Incoming inventory to GarageCurrent.

Which looks to be the car from this thread

 

[Otrebla49]

Information contained on AMG catalogues for 1987 show following data:

AMG 1987

AMG 1987 (USA)

1. Europe/Germany was offered 5.6 version of M117 with 4-valve heads on the W124 but requiring heavy body/chassis modifications (good for 360PS and 188mph/304kph)

2. Compatibility of M117 with 2-valve (5.0/276PS just with reworked ports/valves - 5.6/320PS and 6.0/330PS with bored/exchange block) heads aimed solely to W/V/C126-R107 (4-valve versions 5.0/340PS-5.6/360PS-6.0/375PS needing adaptation/enlargement of engine compartment, and only available for S-Class sedan/coupé)

3. US market selling "Hammer" variant, with standard 5.6L and optionally (bored block from a 'M117.968/560er') the 6.0L with output values of 360bhp and 375bhp respectively

===
Text in DE from picture #1 reads (and translated into EN):

Die Daimler-Benz-Modelle der Baureihe W 124 zählen zweifellos zu den besten Serien-Automobilen, Ein so gutes Fahrzeug noch weiter zu verbessern, stellt für AMG einen besonderen Anreiz dar.
Dazu bedarf es der Spitzentechnik in Motorenbau, Fahrwerk und Karosse-rie. AMG-Kunden können unter zahlreichen Ausführungen wählen-mit vier, sechs oder acht Zylindern unter der Haube. Die 304 km/h schnelle Top-Version vereinigt die Vorteile einer familientauglichen Limousine mit Leistungswerten, denen selbst exotische Sportwagen kaum gewachsen sind. Dafür sorgen der 5,6-Liter-V8-Motor der Mercedes-S-Klasse mit dem von AMG entwik-kelten Vierventil-Zylinderkopf. Das Fahrwerk mit der elektronischen Regelung der Stoßdämpfer-Kennung entspricht dem Leistungsvermögen des Triebwerks. Die bei AMG entwickelten Aerodynamik-Teile sorgen für den sensationell niedrigen Luft-widerstands-Beiwert von 0,25.
Kurz: ein AMG-Automobil, das neue Maßstäbe setzt. Das Kraft, Eleganz und Funktion mit Spitzen-Technologie vereint.

The Daimler-Benz models of the W 124 series are undoubtedly among the best production automobiles. To further improve such a good vehicle is a special incentive for AMG.

This requires cutting-edge technology in engine construction, chassis and body work. AMG customers can choose from numerous versions - with four, six or eight cylinders under the hood. The 304 km/h fast top version combines the advantages of a family-friendly sedan with performance values that even exotic sports cars can hardly match. This is ensured by the 5.6-liter V8 engine of the Mercedes S-Class with the four-valve cylinder head developed by AMG. The chassis with the electronic control of the shock absorber identification corresponds to the power of the engine. The aerodynamics developed at AMG ensure the sensationally low air resistance value (Cd) of 0.25.

In short: an AMG car that sets new standards. That combines power, elegance and function with cutting-edge technology.

===
Alberto

 

[Goran124]

Thats not the car but that is great post with lot of info…
Thx

 

[weide1]

2. Compatibility of M117 with 2-valve (5.0/276PS just with reworked ports/valves - 5.6/320PS and 6.0/330PS with bored/exchange block) heads aimed solely to W/V/C126-R107

I've seen it on image in a 1988 C124 too.
It's #11 on this list. North America AMG Hammer Registry | Curated

I've seen images of W124 with 5.4 in both 16V and 32V. And of W124 5.0-32V.
And heard of W124 with 5.2-32V. The person that said this was active at 233west event. Therefore i consider it reliable.

 

[Goran124]

By Vin the car is 230E from 1986-04

 

[Otrebla49]

Thats not the car but that is great post with lot of info…
Thx

My pleasure, Goran..

Here are a few more details as to 5.0 32V being offered for the W124 in 1986, as by information contained in AMG press release for the IAA in Frankfurt.

I'm sure about comments added by @weide1 being correct too, since in that era owners were likely to have wanted getting their W124s tuned/modded with various power-plants which had been available from other MB models in the range (as M117 2V in different engine capacities, with aforementioned displacements - 5.2/5.4/5.6/6.0)

Alberto

=====

AMG Presse IAA 1986 (D)

** Press information from AMG for the IAA from 1986 **

An alternative to the Daimler-Benz series program developed by AMG should arouse great interest: The middle of the three Mercedes-Benz body versions (W 124) was combined with the large 5-liter V8 four-valve engine from AMG. This vehicle has no less than 340 hp compared to the standard power of the 300 E with 190 hp. The four-valve technology not only allows higher speeds and more power, but also offers high pulling force in the lower speed range and also reduces fuel consumption such as pollutant emissions. This AMG version offers extreme driving performance in conjunction with the space of a comfortable five-seater with high comfort.

In a new development area of AMG, a 500 hp 5.4-liter boat engine was created, which is used in off-shore raceboats. This boat class is considered Formula 1 on the water, and here the world championship is similarly hard fought as on the racetrack. The three engines per boat are exposed to the highest loads, as they are kept at maximum speed almost permanently. The AMG engines owe their high performance not only to their four-valve cylinder heads but also to their high-performance ignition - developed together with Bosch - which is also used in a similar design in Grand Prix sports.

* Development of the AMG 5.0-32 V *

In the present project, AMG for the first time took up the idea of using the AMG four-valve engine in the new passenger car series W 124 from Daimler Benz. The engine is the now well-known variant based on the Mercedes-Benz engine M 117, as it is installed in the S-Class from Daimler-Benz. The engine is characterized by the light metal cross-flow cylinder heads with two overhead camshafts and four valves per cylinder as well as by the roof-shaped combustion chambers with central spark plug position. In the early summer of this year, the first considerations regarding the prototype development were made. After extensive investigations into engine and aggregate installation, the construction and conversion measures followed. This concerned vehicle, engine, power transmission and chassis components. Compared to the normal version of the AMG four-valve engine, the engine also receives a different exhaust manifold system and modified oil return lines. The battery is also moved into the trunk for space reasons. Thus, the oil separators of the crankcase ventilation can be placed in the freed room. To make matters worse, the larger S-Class water cooler also had to be installed and additionally took up space. Due to the significantly increased driving performance, it has become necessary to reinforce or modify drive, brake and chassis units. Thus, front and rear axle springs with modified progressive characteristics were installed.

An adapted cardan shaft and a rear axle differential from the S-Class are used in the drive train. In order for this differential to be used, the rear axle carrier must be changed. At the same time, this construction is reinforced by welding in struts. In accordance with the increased driving performance, the front axle brakes will be replaced by a new construction. The use of these brakes is not possible with the previous light alloy wheels, as AMG rims must be combined with sufficient freedom at the same time. The wheels have a diameter of 17 inches and Michelin mounts tires accordingly. The body attachment kit consists of the normal AMG parts program, as it is available for the W 124 series. Further technical details can be seen from the following information.

====

 

[weide1]

By Vin the car is 230E from 1986-04

This one's a former 230E too. FS: 1986 AMG HAMMER SEDAN, Black/Gray, 23.3kmi, $135,000 (Rye, NH) | W124 AMG & Tuner Cars

It is a bit visible here.

 

[hAMGurger]

 

[Goran124]

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Diff looks modified like that, battery is also relocated…

 

[gsxr]

Diff is a 210mm from a 126 chassis with custom subframe mounting / reinforcement. At the time, nothing larger than a 185mm diff had been used in the 124. The 210mm didn't show up in the 124 from the factory until late 1989 with the introduction of the M104 engine.

 

[gerryvz]

This one's a former 230E too. FS: 1986 AMG HAMMER SEDAN, Black/Gray, 23.3kmi, $135,000 (Rye, NH) | W124 AMG & Tuner Cars

It is a bit visible here.

That's a 5.6 liter four-cam motor, though, not a 6.0? If it's not a 6.0, four cam, then it's technically NOT a Hammer.

 

[weide1]

Whether it's a Hammer or not, for me it was just a nice bridge to mention it being a 230E with 5.6 4 cam.
Since the OP mentions a 230E 5.6 2 cam.

 

[Goran124]

Yup, 230E 5.6 2cam with diff looking like that on pics, also battery relocated, 300km/h speedometer, classic hummer door paneling…
Everything like hummer but not 4V 6.0

 

[hAMGurger]

@Goran124 some helpful photos for you.

In my experience, AMG replaced 32V engines under warranty with M119s and M119/7 engines. We've seen that many times.
But hypothetically, it seems reasonable (NOT verified!) that if an earlier Hammer was getting a warranty replacement engine then a 6.0 SOHC could fit the bill. I don't know, just a guess. Either way you'd have to figure out what the engine actually is.
I've not seen subframe reinforcement on a car that wasn't originally built as a Hammer.

As an aside for others in this thread; all the AMGNA 'stroker' motors like 6.2 up to 6.6 were out-of-warranty as they were obviously not official AMG creations. They were extreme engines done upon request and no recompense was offered if something went wrong down the line.

 

[weide1]

As an aside for others in this thread; all the AMGNA 'stroker' motors like 6.2 up to 6.6 were out-of-warranty as they were obviously not official AMG creations. They were extreme engines done upon request and no recompense was offered if something went wrong down the line.

Never heard of a 6.2 AMGNA M117.
Is this with the 105 mm stroke crank from the 6.6?

As far as I know, this KLS is the only 6.2 M117 I know of.

 

[gsxr]

The only 6.2L that I've heard of were all 102mm bore with standard crank/stroke. The 102mm bore was not reliable, according to the rumor mill. RENNtech only built a couple of these but I recall stories of abnormal wear / oil consumption / etc. IMO the cylinder wall is too thin beyond the 100.5mm overbore that AMG specs allowed on the 6.0L.

 

[alibo70]

Yup, 230E 5.6 2cam with diff looking like that on pics, also battery relocated, 300km/h speedometer, classic hummer door paneling…
Everything like hummer but not 4V 6.0

It wouldn't be a stretch the car lost it's heads at some point. Pre 6.0 cars were known for cam bearing failures. Also the engine mounts and radiator mods would be same as a "Hammer" with M117. Curious minds want to know, maybe the mystery car will come to surface one day.

 

[Otrebla49]

That's a 5.6 liter four-cam motor, though, not a 6.0? If it's not a 6.0, four cam, then it's technically NOT a Hammer.

Gerry, I would like to add a bit of my opinion.. as I have a different conception of the 'Hammer' requirements to be met for it being considered legit.

On these two reports from C&D the magazine and its editors wrote =>

1. They use only 'Hammer' as to referring to the first test of the 5.6 M117 quadcam unit (355bhp / 178mph - Test 12/1986) - pleass see the denomination on the boxes for comparison with rival models at the right side of the page.

2. But for the 300TE 6.0 wagon (M117 sohc / 310bhp / 153mph - Test 02/1990) following text was shown:

"We love the AMG 300TE 6.0, even though it is 49 percent more obscenely expensive than the car that initially rolled into Buxbaum's garages. Strangers pull alongside and shout, "Wow, is it a Hammer" ("Yes," we always replied, lying.)
But we also love the stock 300TE (C/D, August 1988), which costs a "mere" $50,880 and certainly would not have exhibited eight defects in the first 5000 miles of its life."

Alberto

 

[gerryvz]

You are not incorrect, but......I would call a 6.0L four-cam W124 a "true Hammer" per the classic understanding of the term; I would call a 5.6-liter version of same, more of a "pre-Hammer."

The very earliest versions tested by the magazines did indeed use the 5.6-liter, four-cam version of the M117. However, the 6.0-liter version of this four-cam engine pretty quickly replaced the 5.6L, and I do think it pretty safe to say that the classic definition of the AMG Hammer would be a W124 model, with the 6.0-liter version of the engine. Also, a bit more than double the number of 6-liter cars were produced as compared to the 5.6-liter cars.

I think the real issue isn't necessarily 5.6 vs. 6.0 on the M117 four-cam engines, it's more the "Hammer" moniker being applied to 2V M117 engines of various displacements, or W/C126 models. For example, @AMG5PT4's former 5.4L "Euro" 500SEL, which had a 5.4-liter version of the two-cam M117, I would NOT consider, or call, an AMG Hammer.

However, many people out there WOULD and DO call a car of this type, a Hammer, simply because it has a pre-merger AMG-fettled M117 engine in it.

 

[gsxr]

I had forgotten that AMG USA let C&D test drive a lemon. Sheesh. How embarrassing for them.

 

[hAMGurger]

Never heard of a 6.2 AMGNA M117.
Is this with the 105 mm stroke crank from the 6.6?

As far as I know, this KLS is the only 6.2 M117 I know of.

Sorry @weide1, i meant 6.3 (well actually 6.29 blah blah blah). same idea though!
AFAIK (so take with grain of salt!) the 105mm custom crank was the basis for all the experimental Chicago builds. I could be wrong, I'm just trying to connect the dots like you are. or maybe a 102mm crank also?

We can move these notes to another thread as I don't think this is the place for this reply/conversation to continue BUT....

Perhaps this is non-sense math....
If i have a 105mm crank and I don't touch the stock 5.6 bore then i'll have a 6.2 engine.
98.5mm bore yields a 6.4.
If I do a full bore out to 100mm then I've got a 6.6.

If I have a 102mm and I don't touch the stock 5.6 bore then I'll have a 6.0 engine.
98.5mm bore yields a 6.2
If i do a full bore out to 100mm then I've got a 6.4.

 

[weide1]

Indeed all correct.
96.5 x 105 = 6144 cm³
98.5 x 105 = 6401 cm³
100 x 105 = 6597 cm³

96.5 x 102 = 5968 cm³
98.5 x 102 = 6218 cm³
100 x 102 = 6409 cm³

From what i heard from Jono and Stephen the 6.6 indeed has 100 x 105.

@Goran124 Your 1986 5.6 2V might have these specs.
Got this overview from Otfried Schneider from AMG Owners Club years ago.

 

[hAMGurger]

@weide1 might be helpful for @Goran124 if you posted some 16v AMG piston heads pictures, if you had any. I only posted photos from my Hammer and 32V engine folders.

 

[hAMGurger]

not 16v, i mean 8v or SOHC. aka 16v for the entire engine.

 

[Goran124]

Hi, here are some pics. The mats you see under the car are probably some kind of bulletproof floor protection, as the car has bulletproof windows and was built for a wealthy, well-known person back in 1986.

I don’t think the car was ever a Hammer, and I believe it never had a 4V engine.

 

[Otrebla49]

Thanks for sharing these photos @Goran124

On number 18 of these, the sticker placed at front cross beam (for radiator fitting) just shows information for performing ignition time checking (and emission test in Germany).

And it relates to the M117.968 E56 in KAT version - aka, two possibilities (if stock engine from a 560/126S-Class was used):

Edit: I also saw the exhaust piping with cat-delete, and most likely tri-Y manifold/headers (as used on previous ECE-versions with 300PS - given it had the 10,0:1 compression ratio and correct camshafts!)

242PS/238bhp prior to 09/1987 with compression 9,0:1
- or -
279PS/275bhp after 09/1987 with AKR/10,0:1 compression

Alberto

 

[weide1]

Good to have the Kat and Non Kat.
Most likely no AMG. Otherwise it would have had this sticker, i suppose.

But still, BR124 with M117 sure is special.

 

[Goran124]

I think stickers are not important! Rear axle, sunspension, engine bay…those modifications are important…

 

[weide1]

You are right ofcourse. I just took the opportunity to show these images.

You might even consider it an encouragement to show more.

 

[gsxr]

Never seen a photo of this reinforcement bar before. Interesting modification.

 

[Goran124]

The car also has Kevlar ballistic bulletproof mats underneath the car and in the floor inside the cabin. It also has bulletproof windows.