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Mojave Mile - May 5+6, 2012
- Thread starter gsxr
- Start date
Eric, the other 124 in the photo is Jano's Euro 200E with the body kit. That car didn't run as it would have been too slow, although it would have been fun anyway. The 210 ran a best of 155, btw. I figured Jano had the .036 covered and I'd bring down something different to play with!
So Jano brought TWO cars? How? Why? And you told me in the drag racing thread that that 200E is a bad ass turbo car!?! Why is it "slow" now? Were you just pulling my leg?
The 210 spanked the 036 by 10 MPH?!?!? Am I the only one here who spotted that? OK Dave, spill it! What's the full story on that W210?! It clearly has more than just the E55's suspension!
Regards, Eric
Eric, I had originally planned to just go watch with one car, but Dave convinced me a couple months ago to try it out, and glad I did! Since I had that weekend free, I brought the e500 to go fast in, and the project w124 just to show any one who stopped by; I would have loved to try it on the track, but we're still in the Dali phase, dealing with the backfiring and melting cats.
Dave's results weren't so much of a spanking, as much as they were a solid manly smack on the ass. The w210 is a different class of car, that's for sure, but I'm not sure he got the fanfare deserved by the regulars present -- I was a little giddy and a bit out of my element. How can you blame me, I went 145 and am still grinning ear to ear
Dave's results weren't so much of a spanking, as much as they were a solid manly smack on the ass. The w210 is a different class of car, that's for sure, but I'm not sure he got the fanfare deserved by the regulars present -- I was a little giddy and a bit out of my element. How can you blame me, I went 145 and am still grinning ear to ear
That wasn't meant as a dig against you or your car, it was meant as a: "Hey, that 210 shouldn't have been able to even be in the same league as that 036! An 034 maybe, but not an 036! Something's up!"
We've been under the impression around here that that thing is only a stock 4.3 M113! Something's up I say! Spill it Dave!
Regarding the your 200E, is there a build thread somewhere? Maybe some of the technogy could be applied to my 88 300E!
Regards, Eric
We've been under the impression around here that that thing is only a stock 4.3 M113! Something's up I say! Spill it Dave!
Regarding the your 200E, is there a build thread somewhere? Maybe some of the technogy could be applied to my 88 300E!
Regards, Eric
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Sounds like great fun was had by all! The 1.5 mile is surely the distance to go for and the only chance at hitting the limiter ;-) A one mile "shoot-out" is included in the Silver State Classic program but all I could wring out of need2speed was 135mph and still pulling. Adding to the W210 bashing, as my first M-B I was severely disappointed with it's highway manners - wandered and has loose steering - and traded for the E500 after only 7 months ownership.
No worries, Eric, wasn't taken as a "dig". It would've been a spanking if we had been racing against each other, with his skill and ET, Dave's got experience; I'm still learning about cars, but maybe something to do with a chip, maybe ebay or something. 
N2s, 135 mph in a mile? Do you have a different diff or maybe conditions? I agree, the 1.5 mile would be fun, the car was still pulling at the 1 mile mark, I glanced down at the speedo (I know that's a no no) and it was still climbing, albeit slowly.
N2s, 135 mph in a mile? Do you have a different diff or maybe conditions? I agree, the 1.5 mile would be fun, the car was still pulling at the 1 mile mark, I glanced down at the speedo (I know that's a no no) and it was still climbing, albeit slowly.
Someone mentioned that Rik's car only did 130-something at the Silver State Classic standing mile... not sure if Rik did that, or of someone got confused with Dean. One difference is elevation... the Classic is something like 4000'+ above sea level, right? I'm also not sure if the Classic Mile is a perfectly flat road, if it slopes up a bit, that will also affect things. Weather conditions could have been worse, we had low 70's for ambient temps in Mojave and pretty decent barometric pressure.
Also, Dean's car is a bit modified (wider wheels = more drag, roll bar = more weight, larger brakes, etc) which can all add up a bit. If Dean had a full tank of fuel and spare tire, that was a solid 125 lbs of ballast which Jano did not have. Jano's car is stock except for the LH module, btw. To answer the question about the '97 W210, it's got a RENNtech airbox and chip, which obviously makes a lot more difference with ME injection than with LH. Pretty cool, huh? Still an M119 though, no M113's for me. Just say no to SOHC!
Also, Dean's car is a bit modified (wider wheels = more drag, roll bar = more weight, larger brakes, etc) which can all add up a bit. If Dean had a full tank of fuel and spare tire, that was a solid 125 lbs of ballast which Jano did not have. Jano's car is stock except for the LH module, btw. To answer the question about the '97 W210, it's got a RENNtech airbox and chip, which obviously makes a lot more difference with ME injection than with LH. Pretty cool, huh? Still an M119 though, no M113's for me. Just say no to SOHC!
Ooohhh.. yes, that could add up, I gained a couple mph by simply removing the spare. Although if I recall, Dean removes a lot from the inside, and has different seats for the races, so maybe that balances out. Or I've got a really fast example for an e500
<--- this this this! It's special. Like me 200E. 
Several people asked if my EVO II rims were stock. Am I supposed to answer yes or no? It's really more of a semantics issue, I answered "yes". *shrug*gsxr said:
Po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe. The Evo rims are technically not stock, but they are a factory accessory, and were original equipment (stock) on the Limited models. So I guess the correct answer would be "sort of", although for non-MB folks, "yes" is close enough to reality. Oh, btw, easy way to see if your car is quicker than other 500's would be to square up against Steve, Justin, and Eric at the dragstrip if/when it re-opens. Now that would be interesting!!
Photos below. Additional photos at this link.
More info about the videos available if you click the link to view on YouTube (expanded description).
In-car video (short version):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJcNSVSWjmw
[video=youtube;GJcNSVSWjmw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJcNSVSWjmw[/video]
In-car video (view of gauges):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht2wq8KxBGM
[video=youtube;Ht2wq8KxBGM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht2wq8KxBGM[/video]
More info about the videos available if you click the link to view on YouTube (expanded description).
In-car video (short version):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJcNSVSWjmw
[video=youtube;GJcNSVSWjmw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJcNSVSWjmw[/video]
In-car video (view of gauges):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht2wq8KxBGM
[video=youtube;Ht2wq8KxBGM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht2wq8KxBGM[/video]
Attachments
We might have to nudge Eric towards attaining a 036 in order for that to happen. I do hope the ¼ mile strip in Fontana opens up, but I feel we’ll have a better chance of meeting at the next Mojave Mile event than in Fontana. So head to head racing might have to wait, unless the 1/8 mile track is of any interest. Not sure what other tracks in SoCal hold street legal races on the weekends, maybe Eric or Justin know. I don’t think the Pomona track holds street legal races on the weekends, or at all.
I’m just looking towards to the Mojave Mile dates in September, to hopefully test my 036 against other 036’s, that is if anyone else will partake. I’ve already got a helmet and gloves picked out and will buy them next month. I need SPEED!
Still an M119 though, no M113's for me. Just say no to SOHC!
It's an M119! Well that explains it's performance!
Steve, Dave, don't forget that we did our best and tried for a LONG time to get Jano to join us at Fontana while it was still open. Jano, you had plenty of chances!
Regards, Eric
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Jano got the speed bug and it might be tough to bring him down to a measly 98-100mph 1/4 mile times. Granted, drags events are a different animal and we do get to compete head to head, but to go from 145.7mph 1 mile race (and a 1.5 mile option) to a ¼ mile 100mph race, might be like going from shooting heroin to smoking cigarettes.
Given, the 1/4 mile races have a much lesser impact on the wallet, but higher levels of adrenalin are worth the price of admission and do stay with you much longer. I bet Jano still can’t stop grinning ear to ear and is counting down the days till the next event…I know I am. Although I have yet to run the Mojave Mile, I’m already thinking ahead to the next type of track I want to run, twisties at the open track racing at the Willow Springs raceway http://www.opentrackracing.com/ The cost is $155.00 (by mail) or $160.00 (online) but they don’t seem to have any weekend events, only Wednesdays for open track racing. I’m planning to go on the November 14, 2012 date. The track is 81 miles north of Los Angeles in Rosamond, CA and is just 15 miles shy of the Mojave Mile location. The event hours are 8am to 4pm for the sessions (everyone will receive 5, 30 minute track sessions totaling 2 1/2 hours of track time) and I just need to confirm the actual date. When I spoke with a rep form Willow Springs, he mentioned to have Open Track Racing confirm the date, cause Willow Springs have November 7[SUP]th[/SUP] as the event date.
Time to see what the Silver Arrow brakes are capable of. This event should be a blast, which will test the car and driver all around. Can't wait.
Given, the 1/4 mile races have a much lesser impact on the wallet, but higher levels of adrenalin are worth the price of admission and do stay with you much longer. I bet Jano still can’t stop grinning ear to ear and is counting down the days till the next event…I know I am. Although I have yet to run the Mojave Mile, I’m already thinking ahead to the next type of track I want to run, twisties at the open track racing at the Willow Springs raceway http://www.opentrackracing.com/ The cost is $155.00 (by mail) or $160.00 (online) but they don’t seem to have any weekend events, only Wednesdays for open track racing. I’m planning to go on the November 14, 2012 date. The track is 81 miles north of Los Angeles in Rosamond, CA and is just 15 miles shy of the Mojave Mile location. The event hours are 8am to 4pm for the sessions (everyone will receive 5, 30 minute track sessions totaling 2 1/2 hours of track time) and I just need to confirm the actual date. When I spoke with a rep form Willow Springs, he mentioned to have Open Track Racing confirm the date, cause Willow Springs have November 7[SUP]th[/SUP] as the event date.
Time to see what the Silver Arrow brakes are capable of. This event should be a blast, which will test the car and driver all around. Can't wait.
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No need for one. I doubt I'll be hitting 150mph, plus the 300V Motul oil I'm running now is for track use as well, so I'm good to go.
For Mojave, no, the oil cooler isn't really needed. You're at full throttle for probably 40 seconds max then you have a leisurely cool-down trip back to the pits.
For road course racing (i.e., Willow Springs)... I would recommend it, particularly if racing in summer heat. You spend a lot more time at WOT on the road course and it can be for 20-30 mins at a time, if not longer. However, you could always try the first track event without it, and keep an eye on engine temps. If they are hanging out in the 100-110C range, then I'd definitely shell out for the engine oil cooler. If temps stay under 100C the whole time, you can save the $$$$ and spend it on sticky gooey R-compound track tyres instead.
For road course racing (i.e., Willow Springs)... I would recommend it, particularly if racing in summer heat. You spend a lot more time at WOT on the road course and it can be for 20-30 mins at a time, if not longer. However, you could always try the first track event without it, and keep an eye on engine temps. If they are hanging out in the 100-110C range, then I'd definitely shell out for the engine oil cooler. If temps stay under 100C the whole time, you can save the $$$$ and spend it on sticky gooey R-compound track tyres instead.
I would never track my car on a twisty track in the Summer, maybe 1/4 drags or the standing mile, but not the twisties. The Willow Springs event I want to attend is mid November, so the weather heat shouldn't be an issue.
Sticky tires would be good to try and since I do have the cool harness, I should be fine with keeping the car cooler at higher speeds. If anything, I would slap on new R4-S brake pads from Porterfield.
Sticky tires would be good to try and since I do have the cool harness, I should be fine with keeping the car cooler at higher speeds. If anything, I would slap on new R4-S brake pads from Porterfield.
Disclaimer: Porterfield R4 are the "race" pads. They are dirty, dusty, not rotor-friendly, and don't work when cold... need a few corners (or laps) to get them heated up. But once warmed up, they should kick serious booty on the track! You will NOT want to use them on the street, other than to drive to the track & back home. I've read nothing but good things about them on the track though.
Not from what Porterfield told me earlier, as well as feedback from a few racers who been using R-4's on the track, on various cars. The bed-in period for cast iron and steel alloy rotors is minimal. A lot of racers also mentioned that the warm up time is minimal in between sessions. Regardless, I plan on installing the R-4 pads a week prior to the track date and drive to Willow Springs and back with R-4's. A few racers mentioned that the R-4 pads felt good driving to the track, tracking and driving back home with them on. Some even went as far as keeping the R-4's for street use.
Porterfield told me that the R-4 pads are rotor friendly and they are a bit more dusty than the R4-S pads, but the dust is as easily removed as from R4-S pads.
I wouldn't be surprised.Wow. That is VERY different from what I had been told a few years ago. Maybe they changed the compound or something...
"With use of the latest ceramic technology, the Carbon based semi-metallic R-4 materials allow the pads to absorb tremendous amounts of heat and dissipate it at a very even rate, while at the same time insulating excessive heat from calipers. Another inherent characteristic of our carbon kevlar material is how quickly the pads warm up to race temperature which is quite helpful during restarts, and when track time is limited."
When I asked them about the rotor life, they pretty much quoted their statement from their compound specs sheet:
"Another benefit of our R-4 compound is that even with the high friction levels and broad temperature ranges, the unique properties of our compound allows the rotors life to be extended to the maximum. This is truly the most rotor friendly racing brake pad material ever."
Btw, did you speak with Porterfield directly back then?
yup, no more major warm up needed..the First push on cold/cold pads & rotors reminds you that they are track only pads, but after that they're OK. I've been bombing around in the track rat on the street..R4's all around. No complaints, aside from they make my street tyre conti's Cry for mercy left @ right..
All I can say is if you are going to track a car this heavy to Not spend up for some Quality R spec rubber would be a waste....you'll destroy your street tyres and won't have nearly as much fun...!!
Run ducts to your brakes for willow...I'd also go SRF on your fluid.
jono
All I can say is if you are going to track a car this heavy to Not spend up for some Quality R spec rubber would be a waste....you'll destroy your street tyres and won't have nearly as much fun...!!
Run ducts to your brakes for willow...I'd also go SRF on your fluid.
jono
I've considered brake ducts and my tuner has some ideas, but I'm not sure if I really want to modify the car. I'm already running cross drilled Brembo rotors for more cooling and my wheels allow good air flow to the calipers, but I'm still debating the ducts mod. As far as fluid, I'll be using Motul.
For the street, I currently run Motul DOT 5.1. For the track, I'm thinking of running either Motul's RBF 600 or RBF 660, although I don't think 600 or 660 are ABS safe, they flow a bit thicker. I've contacted Motul and I'm waiting to hear back. My tuner is in Mexico, so I'll wait to hear back from him as well. Some Mustang owners who tracked their cars had no issues with ABS and RBF 600, but their ABS and our ABS systems are not alike. Online, a tech from Motul did indicate that for Mustangs there are no compatibility issues between RBF 600 and ABS systems.
My current Silver Arrow set up; with crossed drilled rotors, R4-S pads, SS brake lines and Motul DOT 5.1 is way more brakes than the street needs. So my track set up to Willow Springs should only need a few items to upgrade.
My current Silver Arrow set up; with crossed drilled rotors, R4-S pads, SS brake lines and Motul DOT 5.1 is way more brakes than the street needs. So my track set up to Willow Springs should only need a few items to upgrade.
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Ok, got off the phone with Motul and a few other tuners I know and the RBF 600 is safe to use with ABS, for all cars, the flow is not too thick. The ABS pump will be lubricated and will not deteriorate the seals on the calipers and the master cylinder. So for Willow Springs, RBF 600 it is. I was also considering getting titanium brake heat shields/shims.
I'm very much looking forward to Willow Springs - 1/4 mile drags and the Mojave Mile are foreplay.
I'm very much looking forward to Willow Springs - 1/4 mile drags and the Mojave Mile are foreplay.
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I ran 660 in one of my cars..can't remember which one.. buying a case of SRF solved my problem/concerns. Not sure about the Motul but the SRF you can leave alone for a number of years w/o worry of moisture...works out pretty well
Are you running a Quaife/LSD of any sort?
jono
Are you running a Quaife/LSD of any sort?
jono
What was the problem/concern with 660? I will not be leaving racing brake fluid in after the track, brakes will be bled and DOT 5.1 will go back in. No LSD on my car, this is my DD and I'm not trying to turn it into a track car.I ran 660 in one of my cars..can't remember which one.. buying a case of SRF solved my problem/concerns. Not sure about the Motul but the SRF you can leave alone for a number of years w/o worry of moisture...works out pretty well
Are you running a Quaife/LSD of any sort?
jono
No concern really, just a bunch of Old Timers/Vintage racing guys swearing up and down that SRF was gods gift to racing..
Unless you boil it I can't see any Good reason to go backwards, these systems aren't That sensitive like SBC cars etc.. Most of my cars have SRF, All the warmed up AMG's, my SEC's.. when it comes time I just go and drop in SRF, I don't have to worry about it for a While that way which is Mighty nice..!
IMHO, the BEST mod I made for the track was the Quiafe, w/ R spec rubber disabling the ASR as I thought I would have to in order to get a Good drive out of a few of the slower corners was a non-event. Only once when I was late on the apex into turn 7 @ Road Atlanta did the ASR light give me a one or two blinks. [The Quaife] really lets you get the power Down... I'd say @ an auto X a proper LSD would be paramount!
Jono
Unless you boil it I can't see any Good reason to go backwards, these systems aren't That sensitive like SBC cars etc.. Most of my cars have SRF, All the warmed up AMG's, my SEC's.. when it comes time I just go and drop in SRF, I don't have to worry about it for a While that way which is Mighty nice..!
IMHO, the BEST mod I made for the track was the Quiafe, w/ R spec rubber disabling the ASR as I thought I would have to in order to get a Good drive out of a few of the slower corners was a non-event. Only once when I was late on the apex into turn 7 @ Road Atlanta did the ASR light give me a one or two blinks. [The Quaife] really lets you get the power Down... I'd say @ an auto X a proper LSD would be paramount!
Jono
Official May 2012 results are in - link below, PDF file also attached:
http://mojavemile.com/images/pdf/MM5_results.pdf
From previous MM's, here are the two other MB's that have shown up since they started MM in spring 2010:
2010 March - 2008 Mercedes CLK Black Series (Red), James Brady, Orange CA - 155.0, 158.5 (best), 154.0
2010 September - 1986 Mercedes 560 SEC (Charcoal), Scott Gregory, Santa Clarita CA - 134.9 (best), 133.8, 134.4, 134.2
There were no Mercedes present at either of the 2011 dates. I'm pretty happy that my old W210 was able to almost keep up with the CLK Black series. Not too shabby!
http://mojavemile.com/images/pdf/MM5_results.pdf
From previous MM's, here are the two other MB's that have shown up since they started MM in spring 2010:
2010 March - 2008 Mercedes CLK Black Series (Red), James Brady, Orange CA - 155.0, 158.5 (best), 154.0
2010 September - 1986 Mercedes 560 SEC (Charcoal), Scott Gregory, Santa Clarita CA - 134.9 (best), 133.8, 134.4, 134.2
There were no Mercedes present at either of the 2011 dates. I'm pretty happy that my old W210 was able to almost keep up with the CLK Black series. Not too shabby!
I'd expect that mid-130's is just about right for a stock, US-spec 560SEC/SEL. Of course Jono could tune/tweak it to do better, but from the factory, that's probably about right. Remember the W126 weighs more, has less power, and worse aerodynamics compared to the 500E/E500, so I wouldn't expect a stock one to get anywhere near Jano's 142-145 numbers. Now of course with a DOHC M117, that'd be a different story! Jono, you should bring one of your Hammers to a standing mile shootout... would be cool to see what they'll do!
hell, I'll go measure off nice straight/flat mile on the interstate, bring the GPS and log it one night.. Maybe if I work it just right I'll find a cop right @ the end of the run and he can give me a verification of my terminal velocity..;-)
Agreed, dude w/ SEC was about right, but I still think I could have gotten more from her.
Are you running a/f meters in any of your cars..??
tonight's fun you ask??...mucking about w/ a recalcitrant CISE M119..Wooo!!! @ least I have WOT performance back and my artificially low redline solved. Now to see why part throttle is lack luster. Going to go add an extra O2 bung in a bit once she cools down..
jono
Maybe if I work it just right I'll find a cop right @ the end of the run and he can give me a verification of my terminal velocity..;-)Agreed, dude w/ SEC was about right, but I still think I could have gotten more from her.
Are you running a/f meters in any of your cars..??
tonight's fun you ask??...mucking about w/ a recalcitrant CISE M119..Wooo!!! @ least I have WOT performance back and my artificially low redline solved. Now to see why part throttle is lack luster. Going to go add an extra O2 bung in a bit once she cools down..
jono
prolly, he should have short shifted around 5500 is he was stock..that last 500 these cars REALLY have to WORK through..@ least compared to when things are opened up.
Usually gearing changes result in a bigger change in ET, not as great an effect on trap speed.
Usually gearing changes result in a bigger change in ET, not as great an effect on trap speed.
LOL! That's hard core Jono!
Is it true what they say that CIS-E cars are habitually rich at cruise and idle, and habitually lean at WOT?
BTW, thanks again for sharing that "T-bar" mod with me back in the day over on the old site! I'm now getting consistent second gear chirps from both my 89 300E and my 93 400E! (Along with some pretty stellar E/Ts too!)
Regards, Eric
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CISE Can be well rounded, but everything needs to be on point..and the diag trees in the service manuals are ridiculous..
That said, w/ my duty cycle/ohm meter/fuel pressure gauges/wide band O2/mA tester I can nail them down Pretty solid.
MY white 91 idles around high 14's..cruises in 15's. WOT is mid 12's...they LIKE fuel.
NP w/ the modulator tweak...you couple that with some valve body mods and you'll have bang screech All Over.. The 500E track rat is the most positive shifting .3 I've ever set up, basically my Max Everything in thrown @ the VB along with B& trick shift. I just got a Beautiful set of Kent Moore transmission gauges which are Especially nice when you want to fine tune shifting on these boxes. My last set of glycerin filled trans gauges grew legs....grrrrrrrrr............
jono
That said, w/ my duty cycle/ohm meter/fuel pressure gauges/wide band O2/mA tester I can nail them down Pretty solid.
MY white 91 idles around high 14's..cruises in 15's. WOT is mid 12's...they LIKE fuel.
NP w/ the modulator tweak...you couple that with some valve body mods and you'll have bang screech All Over.. The 500E track rat is the most positive shifting .3 I've ever set up, basically my Max Everything in thrown @ the VB along with B& trick shift. I just got a Beautiful set of Kent Moore transmission gauges which are Especially nice when you want to fine tune shifting on these boxes. My last set of glycerin filled trans gauges grew legs....grrrrrrrrr............
jono
Yes, it was absolutely distance limited! Almost all stock MB's will need much more than 1 mile to achieve top speed. The gearing is almost irrelevant, that will only change the time required to hit the mile, while having almost negligible effect on the trap speed.
Mid-130's in the standing mile for a stock 560SEC/SEL is just about right. Actual top speed could be significantly higher, given another mile or two...
In what way? Could you please elaborate? I'd like to know what parts I need to be suspicious of.
The word on the street used to be that B&M Trick Shift was/is essentially Ford type F trans fluid. What's your take on that? The word also used to be that if you ran type F fluid in a trans designed for Dexron, you would shorten your tran's friction material's life. What's your take on that? Do you need to run different friction materials before you use Trick Shift fluid?
Regards, Eric
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I'm still in shock- maybe the world does end this year !!
" My 210 has a full E55 suspension which is very firm (much firmer than the 500E or any 124 Sportline) ".
Dave selling his W124.034 for a W210? A W210 without a M119 motor!! Are you feeling ok there in Bosie?
Michael
" My 210 has a full E55 suspension which is very firm (much firmer than the 500E or any 124 Sportline) ".
Dave selling his W124.034 for a W210? A W210 without a M119 motor!! Are you feeling ok there in Bosie?
Michael
Very, VERY slow. The more I drive the W210, the more I like the 722.6 transmission, and the less I like the W210 overall. The E55-K might get my attention, or one of the new 63's (E63, etc), or any twin-turbo V12. But all of the above are out of my price range by an order of magnitude or more. If anything, I'll be adding to my 124 collection!!
