SOLD 1992 500E, Pearl Black/Black, 107kmi, BaT auction (Neptune, NJ)

[Matt-R20]

This: ^^^

Dean has done a very good job with sourcing really nice cars, giving them an top-notch detail job, and doing the BaHaT presentation properly. I hadn't looked at his profile recently, he sells a LOT of cars now on BaHaT. Fourteen in the past 2 months. That's about 2 cars per week. Doing some maths, he's got a fantastic business model there.

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I think his rep is strong, but I don’t believe he’s quite EAG level at this point. They have a full in house team that mechanically ensures every car is perfect. They are also very particular about mileage and paint / damage. But all these folks have figured out how to find good quality stuff and maybe even some of it comes there way simply based on reputation.

 

[gerryvz]

You have to take all opinions here with a grain of salt. Opinions are like assholes Camaros -- everybody's got one.

Why would someone who already owns an E500E be "hating" on someone else's E500E? Doesn't make sense to me. I don't really see folks here who are established E500E owners "hating" on others' cars.

There is nothing wrong with critiquing and making observations about cars that come up for sale. Sports Car Market magazine has been doing this for over 20 years (albeit very briefly due to space constraints), and quite successfully I might add. SCM also makes notes about cars being well bought or over-paid for -- based on their analysis and market knowledge. It's one opinion/data point.

Not a lot of difference from this site, in my opinion.

Whether someone's opinion is whether a buyer overpaid or scored a screaming deal, the market is what the market is. If you buy a car and pay X for it, then you obviously felt it was a great deal for what you are getting -- a fair exchange. Otherwise, you wouldn't do the deal.

In the end, who gives a shit what anyone else thinks? If you feel you scored a great car, that's great. Nobody here carps about/critiques cars that are owned by other members. Only cars that come up for sale.

And, one other thing -- this site has documented for the past 13+ years cars that come up to market, often times the same car from multiple owners / sellers / flipper-dealers / auctions / venues. There is MUCH MUCH MUCH value in the tracking of cars over time and through multiple owners/sellers.

Over the years, PLENTY of folks here had avoided making bad buying decisions because of "historical" information on this site about non-disclosed previous accident damage, replaced/rolled odometers, poor repairs and maintenance, and so forth.

One last point: this site is free to everyone and anyone. NO MEMBER OF THIS SITE HAS EVER PAID ONE PENNY FOR ANY INFORMATION POSTED HERE, NOR HAD TO SUFFER ONE SINGLE ADVERTISEMENT, NOR BE SUBJECTED TO ANY TYPE OF SHAKEDOWN/REQUEST FOR MONEY. So, take the information offered here with that in mind -- it's free. How many good things come free in life? How many of you guys have received good value from this site, and never had to pay anything for it? You can thank the serious generosity and sharing by the knowledgeable people who frequent this site for any value you receive.

 

[maw1124]

I think his rep is strong, but I don’t believe he’s quite EAG level at this point. They have a full in house team that mechanically ensures every car is perfect. They are also very particular about mileage and paint / damage. But all these folks have figured out how to find good quality stuff and maybe even some of it comes there way simply based on reputation.

Yeah I almost bought an M3 from them but I found my exact spec elsewhere first. But when I did go check out the car they had, it was about $15k ($25k vs $39.9k) higher than it "should have" been in my view. But I really enjoyed what they had going on over there. Slightly off topic but I think the older brother was recently killed in a motorcycle accident. I want to say a couple months ago. I actually enjoy having people like them (and Dean, and this site, and the E46M guys, and the Porsche and RENNlist guys) in the ecosystem. It's once again, the fun of the game!

Cheers Gents!

maw

 

[Matt-R20]

Yeah I almost bought an M3 from them but I found my exact spec elsewhere first. But when I did go check out the car they had, it was about $15k ($25k vs $39.9k) higher than it "should have" been in my view. But I really enjoyed what they had going on over there. Slightly off topic but I think the older brother was recently killed in a motorcycle accident. I want to say a couple months ago. I actually enjoy having people like them (and Dean, and this site, and the E46M guys, and the Porsche and RENNlist guys) in the ecosystem. It's once again, the fun of the game!

Cheers Gents!

maw

Yeah Eric passed away. I was talking to him about my M2 CS literally the day before he passed. So shocking. They have a really interesting model. I think they are paving the way toward the future as the world changes. When everything is electric those shops won’t be able to maintain collector cars like the old days when you could take your muscle car to any old regular shop. Collecting will be much more specialized.

 

[TerryA]

Yorba Linda, north OC.

Nice to hear your here in the OC also. I’m not that far away in Garden Grove

 

[canyoncarco]

Yorba Linda, north OC.

Congrats @Matt-R20 on the new addition and welcome! I'm in Canyon Lake not that far from Yorba Linda.

Manny

 

[dbb7697]

Congrats Matt. I would say well bought! Happy buyer not matter what makes it a good buy. Enjoy the car. They are very good in a subtle way. If that makes any sense.

What I believe is needed is more "marketing" of this car. It should be in the spotlight more. Hagerty did a good job of that in the recent video they did. Views for that vid are quite high vs. the other videos in that playlist.

 

[Matt-R20]

Congrats @Matt-R20 on the new addition and welcome! I'm in Canyon Lake not that far from Yorba Linda.

Manny

Thanks Manny. Canyon Lake, had never heard of that before, but see where you are. Lots of new cities out that way.

 

[Matt-R20]

Congrats Matt. I would say well bought! Happy buyer not matter what makes it a good buy. Enjoy the car. They are very good in a subtle way. If that makes any sense.

What I believe is needed is more "marketing" of this car. It should be in the spotlight more. Hagerty did a good job of that in the recent video they did. Views for that vid are quite high vs. the other videos in that playlist.

I agree, Camissa's video was really well done and publicized what these are. Thanks!

 

[dbb7697]

You are welcome. All the best.

 

[captruff]

@Matt-R20 congrats on the car. Also located in orange county, Lake Forest.

Jeff

 

[Matt-R20]

@Matt-R20 congrats on the car. Also located in orange county, Lake Forest.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, nice to meet so many locals!

 

[Kevallino]

Congrats Matt - one more local-is here, we're in DTLA.

I have the exact same car as yours, built 5 months later. I remember when these came out and always wanted one - got mine about 6 years ago. It's awesome.

Cheers
Kevin

 

[maw1124]

Congrats Matt - one more local-is here, we're in DTLA.

I have the exact same car as yours, built 5 months later. I remember when these came out and always wanted one - got mine about 6 years ago. It's awesome.

Cheers
Kevin

You live among collectors or the others are yours?

maw

 

[Matt-R20]

T

Congrats Matt - one more local-is here, we're in DTLA.

I have the exact same car as yours, built 5 months later. I remember when these came out and always wanted one - got mine about 6 years ago. It's awesome.

Cheers
Kevin

Thanks! Nice to meet you Kevin, look forward to the journey….

 

[Kevallino]

My wife and I are both into cars - between us there's 5 Mercedes and 6 others. And 3 pairs of his-and-hers motorcycles too...

 

[Kevallino]

You live among collectors or the others are yours?

maw

See above, can't figure out how to delete the previous post!

 

[maw1124]

My wife and I are both into cars - between us there's 5 Mercedes and 6 others. And 3 pairs of his-and-hers motorcycles too...

Is that Shark an M? If so, how do you like it?

maw

 

[tanger]

What I believe is needed is more "marketing" of this car. It should be in the spotlight more. Hagerty did a good job of that in the recent video they did. Views for that vid are quite high vs. the other videos in that playlist.

+1 on the Hagerty vid, though I'm biased as the car featured is mine

I'm also in the general LA area, more out west in Manhattan Beach...

Welcome Matt!

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Gerry's comments about deferred maintenance spending not adding much to a car's selling price is pretty accurate. I sold a stunning 88k miles 560SEC 18 months ago on BaT and got $18.5k for it after Jono and I went through the car in exhausting and expensive detail to take care of most every maintenance item. The car should have sold for $5k more given the gem that it was (full disclosure - the interior was a complete swap out from grey to late Gen II palomino so I expected a lower result - if not for the interior color change, the car should have been high 20's). I installed brand new NLA SLS struts, new MB ball joints, new NLA heater valve, complete MB timing chain/tensioner/rails, every vacuum pod, and on and on. Most Sellers (particularly dealers) won't spend much more than an oil change and private owners generally cheap out using cheap aftermarket parts. I could have left everything as it was (aside from a leaking A/C compressor and water pump) and the car would have brought about the same price - and saved $5,000 in parts/labor costs. All the posts about wiring harnesses and timing chain rails posted by me and the usual choir generally have little impact, IMO. My SEC was bought extremely well and will provide worry free use for years.

Regarding this 500E, The "Dean" factor is a +$10k bump all day long. I've seen it dozens of times on his cars. He makes good cars look great, but doesn't do the costly deferred maintenance that all of these cars need. Why should he? Wouldn't bring much more in bids.

My advice for anyone on this board thinking of selling an .036 on an open auction - keep your stash of NLA or cherished/hoarded parts and sell these parts for market value (e.g. leave the older pitted correct headlights on the car and keep your NOS set). Make the car cosmetically great (paint correction, thorough cleaning, new mats) and sell it.

I've been up to Dean's a few times and driven several of his cars. Actually, he DOES do quite a bit of mechanical work on them, and keeps a Mercedes tech very busy updating things on the cars. His cars sell very well because of his reputation, for which he's worked hard, and because they show very well and drive very well. He virtually always sells at NR, so the market really does speak on his sales.

I think this was a fair deal all around- not a steal on either side, but a fair deal- and that the buyer will be pleased with the car and enjoy it. I'll admit to being glad I bought my 500E years ago, though.

 

[gerryvz]

I've been up to Dean's a few times and driven several of his cars. Actually, he DOES do quite a bit of mechanical work on them, and keeps a Mercedes tech very busy updating things on the cars. His cars sell very well because of his reputation, for which he's worked hard, and because they show very well and drive very well. He virtually always sells at NR, so the market really does speak on his sales.

I think this was a fair deal all around- not a steal on either side, but a fair deal- and that the buyer will be pleased with the car and enjoy it. I'll admit to being glad I bought my 500E years ago, though.

I think it depends on how far down the "mechanical work" rat-hole you want to go. Is Dean fixing obvious things, like oil leaks, or is he replacing things like fossilized 25-30 year old heater hoses and intake manifold rubber gaskets that are likely on the verge of needing replacement, if not already so?

I went into my COVID project in 2020 with a fairly small list of "issues," mainly to fix a long-leaking front crankshaft seal.

100+ hours, many thousands of dollars, and pretty much every soft-part-being-replaced-under-the-hood later (with more than a few things that I found needing replacement along the way - things that most owners, let alone Dean, would not bother fixing and/or not even know about - I can say that I am very sure that I likely performed $20-25K of "deferred maintenance" (by any dealer or indy shop's labor+parts costs) on an already WELL-RUNNING car that had been maintained during the previous 17+ years under my care, to a higher standard than most cars on this forum have been.

So I think it's relative.

I think what @AMG5PT4 and I were saying, is that sure, Dean is fixing obvious issues -- torn and worn rubber, major leaks, obvious mechanical issues, and so forth. But the goal of such work is preparation for a quick BaT flip/sale.

But I can GUARANTEE that Dean is not really getting into the major deferred maintenance that these cars have --

• $5K for cars with <100K miles;
• $10K for all cars with >100K miles;
• $15K+ for all cars with 175-200K+ miles

If he was, he'd have zero or negative profit margins.

I only WISHED that my eventual amount of work done & parts replaced, was as short as this original list (written in black text; blue text items added during project) I went into the project with:

 

[Jlaa]

I've been up to Dean's a few times and driven several of his cars. Actually, he DOES do quite a bit of mechanical work on them. His cars sell very well because of his reputation....

I think it depends on how far down the "mechanical work" rat-hole you want to go.
But I can GUARANTEE that Dean is not really getting into the major deferred maintenance that these cars have --

• $5K for cars with <100K miles;
• $10K for all cars with >100K miles;
• $15K+ for all cars with 175-200K+ miles

If he was, he'd have zero or negative profit margins.

It is fair to say that a very-maintenance-minded-owner will nearly always be more attentive to maintenance needs --- especially when the maintenance viewed by the owner as a hobby is, at the same time, viewed by a dealer as business expense.

I like to remind myself of the old adage that when buying cars, we buy the seller's reputation.

I wouldn't mind paying market-price for a Dean Laumbach prepared car. Of course I would do more maintenance on it after delivery. I would much rather buy a Dean L car (I noticed he put high quality Continental tires and MB brand tie rods) than the car listed here:

SOLD - 1994 E500, Pearl Black/Gray, 39kmi, $90k (Beverly Hills, CA) | Cars for Sale - 500E / E500 ONLY

ADMIN EDIT: For sale by new Flipper-Dealer™ July 2023. Thread title updated. See post 16 for details. VIN = WDBEA36E8RC084344 1994 E500, Pearl Black/Gray, 38kmi, $83k (Southampton, NY) https://www.instagram.com/aventuramotors_vintagecars/p/CYpOSLJPMVL/?utm_medium=copy_link...

www.500eboard.co

which is being sold by a dealer who saw it fit to put on "Starfire" tires..... which makes me wonder about any other shortcuts the selling dealer took.

 

[maw1124]

I like to remind myself of the old adage that when buying cars, we buy the seller's reputation.

I wouldn't mind paying market-price for a Dean Laumbach prepared car. Of course I would do more maintenance on it after delivery.

This part!

maw

 

[gerryvz]

Nobody is impugning Dean's reputation here. It's universally agreed that Dean secures, prepares and sells good product.

It's just the EXTENT of preparation, at least that I was commenting on. No online dealer is going to bend over backward to take care of things that don't absolutely REQUIRE it. It's why I'd much rather -- ANY DAY -- buy from a knowledgeable private seller, particularly here on the forum, someone like the @gsxr. Because you know the little things are going to be done right, and be taken care of, and paying much more for that detail and security is an amount I'd rather pay than an online dealer doing moderate "sale prep" mechanical work.

But that's just me.

 

[Jlaa]

It's why I'd much rather -- ANY DAY -- buy from a knowledgeable private seller, particularly here on the forum, someone like the @gsxr.

I don't think this is possible. There is only one "The @gsxr." That's why we call it "The GSXR." Anything else would be "GSXR-like." Things like:

• Cheese vs. Pasteurized Processed Cheese Food
• Salisbury Steak vs. Ribeye Steak
• Panda Express vs. Real Xiao Long Bao

.... come to mind...

 

[gsxr]

... It's why I'd much rather -- ANY DAY -- buy from a knowledgeable private seller, particularly here on the forum, someone like the @gsxr. Because you know the little things are going to be done right, and be taken care of, and paying much more for that detail and security is an amount I'd rather pay than an online dealer doing moderate "sale prep" mechanical work.

Thanks, Gerry & @Jlaa!

For anyone interested, my wife's 1992 500E (old pics here) will be listed for sale in the very near future. I'm been sorting out a bunch of piddly items over the past few months and it's almost ready for a photo shoot. It is not perfect cosmetically or mechanically, but I will try to point out all the known issues so there are minimal surprises. With 179k on the clock it would be an ideal daily driver. Weather permitting I may be able to get some teaser photos today, and have it listed in the forum classifieds by ±Feb-1, 2022.

 

[maw1124]

@gsxr you've been piddling away not listing that car for years... but that's a detail. Now @gerryvz and @Jlaa are telling you what I've been telling you since pre-Covid.

Luckily, used car inflation has kept your deserving prices on the table.

maw

 

[gsxr]

@gsxr you've been piddling away not listing that car for years... but that's a detail. Now @gerryvz and @Jlaa are telling you what I've been telling you since pre-Covid.

I know, I know... but I finally fished it out of storage and actually started work on it late 2021, and it's nearing completion! Previously I kept having other projects with higher priority but I was able to get somewhat caught up the past 2 years.

 

[Matt-R20]

500e is finally on its way from NJ. Can’t wait to drive this car…….

 

[Jlaa]

500e is finally on its way from NJ. Can’t wait to drive this car…….

View attachment 142315

Awesome! I bought my 500E without ever having driven one as well!

Just remember --- it is a cruise missile, not a "sports sedan". Outside of BMW ///M back then, there wasn't any template for "sports sedan." ....... So given that this was the "best sedan in the world" at the time, think of Chevrolet Celebrity except 1000x better. Or maybe think of Mercedes w123 but a bit more modern and all ate up with motor.

 

[Matt-R20]

Awesome! I bought my 500E without ever having driven one as well!

Just remember --- it is a cruise missile, not a "sports sedan". Outside of BMW ///M back then, there wasn't any template for "sports sedan." ....... So given that this was the "best sedan in the world" at the time, think of Chevrolet Celebrity except 1000x better. Or maybe think of Mercedes w123 but a bit more modern and all ate up with motor.

I did my HS driver’s ed in a Celebrity and I grew up working in a shop that fixed them all the time. If the 500 is 1000x better we have a problem, because those things start out negative, and 1000 times a negative number is worse…….

 

[Jlaa]

I did my HS driver’s ed in a Celebrity and I grew up working in a shop that fixed them all the time. If the 500 is 1000x better we have a problem, because those things start out negative, and 1000 times a negative number is worse…….

You grew up in a posh family. I did driver's ed in a Cavalier. OK OK maybe 1000 better than .... a Lumina?

 

[Matt-R20]

You grew up in a posh family. I did driver's ed in a Cavalier. OK OK maybe 1000 better than .... a Lumina?

 

[maw1124]

Yeah they were all such trash. The Pontiac 6000 was better but just barely. To be fair, the Benzes were just cooler but to my youthful experience didn’t drive any better. I wasn’t exactly thrashing customer cars around though.

This was the first Benz I drove that was different, and then came the ‘02 (pre Kompressor) AMG cars, E and S 55. All around the same period of life for me, mid to late 90’s (or 20s).

And then the Kompressor cars just went to a whole different planet in driving while retaining (for me anyway) a lot of that late 80’s, early 90’s Benz feel.

I’ll always remember this as the car that changed my thinking about Mercedes Benz though. Just different in terms of acceleration, balance and handling. “Goes like a Benz, handles like a Porsche.”

maw

 

[sheward]

A tip to help you become more acclimated with the car sooner. These cars were designed to be drama free. They do everything in a sedate kind of way unless you manually drive the transmission, and they respond very well to that. Even though there is plenty of torque at low rpm the transmission will always have the car in a higher gear quickly.
If you haven't already done so, read up a bit on getting the car to start in 1st gear and how ASR works. If you are already aware, just enjoy yourself when it arrives.

 

[maw1124]

On this point ^^^ the thread on tuning the transmission should be required reading.

Hotrodding the 722.3 transmission | Transmission and Driveline

From my archives - had been posted on Ecstasy, but that's been down for months (again). Anyway: ------------------------------ >From: "Satish Tummala" >Subject: [560SEC] Scott's Visit - (LONG-BUT GOOD) >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:49:19 -0400 > > > >Sorry for not posting lately guys but VERY...

www.500eboard.co

If this was a Board member's car it might be done already.

maw

 

[sheward]

Whoops, disregard. Wrong car

 

[Matt-R20]

I have plenty of stuff to rip around in, the intent with this car is to have a cruiser to eat up the highway.

 

[sheward]

Which is where you will surely experience hours of pleasure. Still, you may find yourself coming up alongside the blue haired old lady in her Camry at the front of the long line of cars wanting to merge...

 

[gerryvz]

the intent with this car is to have a cruiser to eat up the highway.

I just drove my E500 from my home in Annapolis, MD up to Wilmington, DE on Saturday morning to survey a boat we're looking at buying. It's 1.5 hours' drive up there, mostly via fairly rural highways on the Maryland Eastern Shore/Delmarva Peninsula.

Every time I get the car out on the open road, I fall in love with it all over again. Even after 18.5 years of owning it.

 

[maw1124]

Which is where you will surely experience hours of pleasure. Still, you may find yourself coming up alongside the blue haired old lady in her Camry at the front of the long line of cars wanting to merge...

Shit, there's one of those driving a RENNtech 500E in my neighborhood. She cracks me up every time I see her! I'm told my mom cracks people up driving mine.

maw