OK, I'll go downstairs to the garage and try it now
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200,000 mile service 1994 E500
- Thread starter ltpowers
- Start date
OK, I'll go downstairs to the garage and try it now
Yes, I believe so...
Usually, it makes starting difficult but not impossible according to the theory. It can keep a distributorless engine (Bosch ME) from starting because it can't immediately allocate ignition timing, but a distributor car will usually start after multiple attempts if the cam sensor is the only fault. It will randomly try different injector firing order starting points with each key cycle until it starts. The distributors obviously distribute to the correct cylinders, and which coil to fire is determined by the magnet inserts in the flywheel segments. If the motor does start, it will usually run poorly due to the likelihood of the injectors not being perfectly sequenced to the valve openings unless it "lucks" into it, and the EZL will impose limp home timing curves at higher loads because it won't "know" what cylinder it is actually firing, rendering the individual ignition maps for knock avoidance impossible to use...
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That's why I'm "Lord Vader", right again.___
The car starts fine, cranking time is extended maybe 4 seconds
Engine starts and runs fine________
Vader 1
Klink/gsxr 0
I think I should get half a point! I said it would start, just maybe not on the first try...
Maybe that only works on the 034
Okay, I have to give credit where credit is due, and it is certainly due on that one !
Have a yoink on me!
I think I should get half a point! I said it would start, just maybe not on the first try...
Upon further review,
Vader 1
Klink 0.5
gsxr 0
Good to see you guys being so helpful and having some fun !!!
Thanks for the re-evaluation.
Hey, fair is fair...
LOL! OK - seriously - has anyone tried unplugging the CMP and then seeing if the car will start/run? I have not tried this myself, and I've not yet had a CMP fail, so I'm not certain of the possibilities. I thought I remembered reading that the engine management required the CMP signal (and that it could not interpolate it from other signals), but I might be wrong...
LOL! OK - seriously - has anyone tried unplugging the CMP and then seeing if the car will start/run? I have not tried this myself, and I've not yet had a CMP fail, so I'm not certain of the possibilities. I thought I remembered reading that the engine management required the CMP signal (and that it could not interpolate it from other signals), but I might be wrong...
Distributor ignition cars will start, just not always on the first key cycle. LH uses it for synching the nozzles to the open valves. EZL uses it for cylinder identification to enable the building of individual anti knock timing maps. Both are accomplished in the first turn or so of cranking. After that point, it's just along for the ride...
Yes, I have_____
if a member is diagnosing a "no start" conditionand asks if the CMP will keep the engine from starting, don't guess
I remember from factory traning, based on the LH default fuel map
the instructor unplugged the MAF, CMP and 4 pin CTS
A basic map with average reading is used so the car will drive normally
Only fuel economy is affected
Not "may be wrong", are wrong
Anyone can go out to their car now and try it.
Went to the local dealer this morning for lower wire harness and cam sensor. Wire harness is only from Germany and 10 days out, $243. Cam sensor is tomorrow and $220. I have a request in to Lionel and hopefully he can come up with something sooner.
I hooked up an old timing light to the coil wire at the distributor and there is no spark. Where do I go from here? I have been avoiding thinking about the expensive electronic boxes as I don't have spares to try to isolate the issue. Any fuses that could cause problems?
I hooked up an old timing light to the coil wire at the distributor and there is no spark. Where do I go from here? I have been avoiding thinking about the expensive electronic boxes as I don't have spares to try to isolate the issue. Any fuses that could cause problems?
And a better price with FREE shipping, 2 day Fed Ex
I better not guess anymore.
Lol, just a little chain-yanking.
As far as spark, start at the source.
The crankshaft position sensor (CKP)
Unplug it at the EZL, check resistance. Should be between 800 to 1100 ohms
Then switch the meter to AC voltage low range. Crank the engine and see if the CKP is producing voltage.
.700 mv to 1 volt
I checked to resistance of the crank sensor and it was 812. Then to check the crank voltage I went to the trunk to connect the negative wire to the terminal (I only disconnect the negative). While there I felt the small positive wire, it was loose, real loose. The battery had been replaced in VA and they must have forgot to tighten it. I did tighten it and the cars started right up. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! you saved me from so much anxiety as to the solution to the problem. It is funny how these things happen. The car ran for 2 weeks at least, then dies when I do the plugs etc. 
Congratulations, nothing like the feeling of finding the problem, and hearing that M119 fire up.____
There is a bleeding procedure in the FSM...generally a good idea to do this after the system has been depressurized. See Section A, pages 1-5:
http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB CD/W124/w124CD2/Program/Chassis/32-0630.pdf
Yes, this wire supplies direct power off of the battery to the CAN (control computer) box underhood. I too once had a starting and slight running problem with this wire being loose, and since I found that problem I have advised everyone with electrical and running problems to check it for integrity and proper electrical flow (and the battery terminals for corrosion) ever since as a first troubleshooting step.I checked to resistance of the crank sensor and it was 812. Then to check the crank voltage I went to the trunk to connect the negative wire to the terminal (I only disconnect the negative). While there I felt the small positive wire, it was loose, real loose. The battery had been replaced in VA and they must have forgot to tighten it. I did tighten it and the cars started right up. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! you saved me from so much anxiety as to the solution to the problem. It is funny how these things happen. The car ran for 2 weeks at least, then dies when I do the plugs etc.
Here's my saga: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1776
Congratulations on the fix and finding the cause for that problem.
Cheers,
Gerry
This is the forth incident I've heard of with that wire
First time for me was in 1998 on a 500SL
Another tech in the shop replaced the battery and left that wire loose
Car was towed in a few weeks later
I spent a few hours on that car when I remembered the basics and checked the battery & teminals
Bingo, car started.
First time for me was in 1998 on a 500SL
Another tech in the shop replaced the battery and left that wire loose
Car was towed in a few weeks later
I spent a few hours on that car when I remembered the basics and checked the battery & teminals
Bingo, car started.
I read the instructions and they say to bleed if the tube from the reservoir to the control unit was emptied of fluid. The tube and the reservoir kept fluid in them while I was working. I would have air in the system from the accumulators back to the shocks. Air may have been forced back into the rest of the system when weight was placed on the wheel and the shocks compressed. I was thinking of loosening the hoses into the shocks to get out the air from a high spot where it would rise to.
Note that I thanked that post as soon as I saw it hours ago!
That little number is on countless MBs over the decades, no one's alone on that one. My first "lesson" with it was in '82 on a then 10 year old '72 280 4.5. On those, it feeds the fuel injection...
Best example I've seen with this fault though was on a 140. Here's the story kind of backwards:
The battery is in a trunk tray just like on a 124 V8. We found that the small wire was loose on the + terminal, the mickey mouse battery was too small for the tray, and there was no battery holding hardware. Rectifying those conditions fixed the car.
The customer complained that the car would stall then crank but not restart after he braked hard. The car started and ran fine when it got to the shop, but every system was loaded with fault codes. He said that we were like the third shop to attempt a fix. He said that the car always stalled under hard braking, and would always start after it got on the flat bed. Then the idea hit me out of the blue and I looked at the battery...
There was the loose wire and the sliding battery. When the battery slid forward, the wire loosened enough to stall the engine. When the battery slid backwards, it pulled the wire tighter and operation was restored until the next braking incident. Lather, rinse, repeat...
That little number is on countless MBs over the decades, no one's alone on that one. My first "lesson" with it was in '82 on a then 10 year old '72 280 4.5. On those, it feeds the fuel injection...
Best example I've seen with this fault though was on a 140. Here's the story kind of backwards:
The battery is in a trunk tray just like on a 124 V8. We found that the small wire was loose on the + terminal, the mickey mouse battery was too small for the tray, and there was no battery holding hardware. Rectifying those conditions fixed the car.
The customer complained that the car would stall then crank but not restart after he braked hard. The car started and ran fine when it got to the shop, but every system was loaded with fault codes. He said that we were like the third shop to attempt a fix. He said that the car always stalled under hard braking, and would always start after it got on the flat bed. Then the idea hit me out of the blue and I looked at the battery...
There was the loose wire and the sliding battery. When the battery slid forward, the wire loosened enough to stall the engine. When the battery slid backwards, it pulled the wire tighter and operation was restored until the next braking incident. Lather, rinse, repeat...
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Geez Klink, if you liked that situation, you're going to love this one that I had on my 560SEC ....
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1183
Today was the first time in a week that I looked under the car. There is a puddle of ATF under the transmission. The fluid appears to be coming from the right side of the tranny. While under there I scoped out the job of removing the transmission. It appears that the exhaust needs to be removed first. Is that true?
Yes. Removing exhaust isn't as daunting a job as it seems. I did it with my E320 wagon up on jack stands earlier this year. It's a good time to replace a few things like rubber exhaust hangers and the oxygen sensor, and the transmission tunnel blanket, and the flex discs, as they'll never be that accessible again....
This is not a V-8 engine transmission drop, but close enough.....
This is not a V-8 engine transmission drop, but close enough.....
Oh, good times indeed! I had one with a similar affliction on that same harness many years ago. That one intermittently ruined a succession new fuel pump relays over a couple years time...
Reading Sun Valley Transmission fine print, It says to Please review error codes (if applicable to this transmission type) before installing our transmission. Damage to transmission due to faulty electronic transmission controls not warranted As I don't have a code reader, do I need to bring the car to someone to check the transmission codes?
No. That particular warning is not applicable to your transmission. If you are installing an SV transmission it should shift faultlessly from the first test drive. If it doesn't, come back here with a report. There are a couple of minor vehicle malfunctions external to the transmission that can make it shift poorly or erratically, and those may cause you to think that you have major transmission faults.
Good to know I don't have to worry about codes.
Back to removing the transmission... I looked down at the back of the engine and can see a couple of bell housing bolts. Wouldn't it make sense to remove these before lifting the car to work underneath? Is there anything else to remove from the top?
Back to removing the transmission... I looked down at the back of the engine and can see a couple of bell housing bolts. Wouldn't it make sense to remove these before lifting the car to work underneath? Is there anything else to remove from the top?
It's all in the factory service manuals. Take a look at the detailed HOW-TO that I wrote on removing a transmission from a six-cylinder motor. It's basically exactly the same. You have to disconnect the control pressure cable, and you remove all of the bell housing bolts except the two bolts at the "3" and "9" o'clock positions. Then you support the transmission from underneath, remove those two final bolts, and slowly lower it down.
It's all in the HOW-TO, if you care to read it. I don't know how much more people can add verbally above and beyond a detailed, photo-illustrated HOW-TO article, combined with the information from the factory service manual.
Cheers,
Gerry
It's all in the HOW-TO, if you care to read it. I don't know how much more people can add verbally above and beyond a detailed, photo-illustrated HOW-TO article, combined with the information from the factory service manual.
Cheers,
Gerry
I have found a local transmission shop with a great reputation and upstanding owner. He has experience with Mercedes transmissions and uses OEM parts to do the rebuild. Are OEM parts equal to Mercedes parts? I know they are not boxed Mercedes but will they perform the same? He does warrantee his work for 1 year. and the price is good.
In THEORY, most OEM parts should be equivalent to OE (Mercedes). It's difficult to say for sure, especially if you are not personally buying the parts and can check for name brands, country of origin, etc.
I'd lean towards Sun Valley in SoCal for a tranny, or BlueRidgeMB in Hotlanta, or shell out for the MB dealer transmission. The local guy would have to be awfully convincing to get my business.
I'd lean towards Sun Valley in SoCal for a tranny, or BlueRidgeMB in Hotlanta, or shell out for the MB dealer transmission. The local guy would have to be awfully convincing to get my business.
I know for sure that Sun Valley uses gen-yoo-whine MB parts. I saw tons of MB parts boxes around their shop when I was there earlier this year. Marc says that's one reason they can do good rebuilds for cheaper than competitors ... they get parts from MB at volume discounts.
