500E engine cutting out and stalling. Assistance please!

[Cadence]

Today was a somewhat auspicious start to W124036 ownership! I have only driven it approx. 5 miles because I fear it might leave me stranded!

I just took delivery of a really nice 1993 500E with 116k miles. It has been dealer serviced and clearly well looked after but I don't have any of the service records or the ability to speak with the previous owner.

There are plenty of new parts under the hood including fluid reservoirs, hoses and an upper wiring harness with a 2006 date marking.

The engine starts fine hot or cold and settles into a typical 500E idle (smooth with the occasional miss) and drives well for short periods until the engine power cuts out very abruptly. The engine seems to cut out in the 1500 - 2500rpm range but I don't know if this means anything. After one cut out session the ASR light stayed on but went off after I cycled the ignition key on and off. The problem seems to occur more during acceleration than at steady-state cruise. The car stalled a couple of times just off idle when I was leaving a stop sign but after the restart it was happy to go WOT through 2nd and 3rd gears to 6000rpm. Talk about Jekyll and Hyde!

I know the first rule of 500E troubleshooting is PULL THE CODES but I am not currently a code reader owner Can the forum experts point me in the direction of some of the most probably causes?

Nothing looks odd under the hood, the battery terminals are tight and there is lots of fresh fuel in the tank.

EZL?
ETA?
ECU?
LH module?
Green relay under the back seat?


UPDATE - I removed the airbox to inspect the ETA but couldn't find any markings or date code on it, mostly due to the fact that it was absolutely covered in grime and grit which leads me to believe that my ETA has never been replaced. At this point I am probably going to bite the bullet and send it to Beckmann for a rebuild rather than continuing to troubleshoot the problem. Fingers crossed

During the ETA inspection process I put my hand on the plastic tube that goes to the brake booster and cracked it so 'while I am in there' replacing the ETA I want to replace a bunch of the old rubber and plastic hoses, tubes and lines. Is there a post anywhere that lists all of the normal suspects to be replaced after 21 years?


UPDATE in post # 17


FIXED! Updated in post # 50

 

[baviking1]

Today was a somewhat auspicious start to W124036 ownership!

I just took delivery of a really nice 1993 500E with 116k miles. It has been dealer serviced and clearly well looked after but I don't have any of the service records or the ability to speak with the previous owner.

There are plenty of new parts under the hood including fluid reservoirs, hoses and an upper wiring harness with a 2006 date marking.

The engine starts fine hot or cold and settles into a typical 500E idle (smooth with the occasional miss) and drives well for short periods until the power cuts out abruptly. When the power cuts out the dash lights up like a Christmas tree and then a moment later everything goes back to normal. After one cut out the ASR light stayed on but went off after I cycled the ignition key on and off. The car even stalled once just off idle when I was leaving a stop sign but after the restart it was happy to go WOT through 2nd and 3rd gears to 6000rpm. Talk about Jekyll and Hyde!

I know the first rule of 500E troubleshooting is PULL THE CODES but I am not currently a code reader owner Can the forum experts point me in the direction of some of the most probably causes?

Nothing looks odd under the hood, the battery terminals are tight and there is lots of fresh fuel in the tank.

EZL?
ETA?
ECU?
LH module?
Green relay under the back seat?

I'll get in before everyone else here: congrats on your 036!!

Now its time to get your own fishing pole (instead of just a fish ). Build your own blink code reader (parts are $10-15 bucks at Radio Shack), and then follow the instructions here:

HOW-TO: Checking DTC's (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) on the 500E/E500 .

Here is a link that shows you how to build the reader (or there should be one on this forum, which is a much better forum anyway) http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140...ode-reder.html .

Just remember that the procedure is simple: put your red & black leads in pins 1 & 3, then the test lead in each & every applicable pin. Which pins you have to test depends on whether your car has ASR or not (read the guide). Hold the button down for 2-3 seconds, release it, and then count the following blinks. Any more than 1 blink = a "DTC code", and its basically telling you what is/has been wrong with your car. Write them down (i.e "pin 4, 3 blinks"), and then clear each code that comes up by holding the button again 6-7 seconds (no more or less) and releasing it. When the codes are clear on that particular pin, you will only get one blink (after pressing the button 2-3 seconds) and you can move to the next one. You will probably have a lot of stored codes, so clear them and drive the car to see what comes back (and therein lies your problem). Once you see which codes have returned, you can post them here for diagnosis attempts.

It sounds/looks more intimidating than it is; once you have it down, you will have taken a quantum leap towards self-sufficiency. The guys here are unbelievably helpful, and can guide you above & beyond once you have the codes.....

 

[jhodg5ck]

Sounds very ETA'ish to me. Even if the wiring is Good doesn't mean the unit is OK. Regardless, I would carefully cut back some of the insulation and have a look. If the wiring is indeed bad that's an excellent starting point...

@ the shop we won't do any further work on gremlins if there is faulty wiring..be it upper/lower or ETA harness.

Jonathan

 

[gsxr]

Check the date codes on both the ETA... there are pictorials in the Wiki which show how to locate, and translate, the date codes. If it is original, it's definitely suspect.

When the problem occurs, do ALL lights turn on in the cluster, or only the ABS/ASR lights? This is important...

 

[Cadence]

Thanks for the speedy replies!

I drove the car again today and updated my original post to describe a few more things I noticed.

gsxr - Today I noticed that none of the dash warning lights come on while the engine is cutting out, everything inside the car appears normal. The dash 'Christmas tree' that I mentioned earlier must have been after the engine stalled.

Hopefully pulling the airbox and locating the ETA wiring and date codes is fairly easy.

 

[gsxr]

Whew. OK - that is good news. I've never heard of the dash lighting up while the engine cut out, but it's normal when it stalls.

Pulling the airbox is easy... remove the hoses, lift the front "slotted" cover out of the way, then lift upward at the FRONT of the airbox... when it's loose, pull it forward and up/out. It may snag on the black vacuum pipe on the driver side, watch out for that. Once removed, hopefully you can see the date code on the sticker of the ETA with a flashlight. Worst case you'll need to carefully (!!!) slice the insulation on the ETA wire and check it the hard way.

 

[Klink]

My apologies in advance to the posters here. I'm new here and I don't currently have the time to figure out how to do this forum thingie just right just yet. If it should be posted elsewhere or in a different manner, and you find the info useful, I'm hoping that one of you that actually know your way around here will post it in a manner that is most useful or accessible.

I'm not actually commenting much on the main topic of this thread, because you guys are firmly on it and will have it sorted in no time. (sounds ETA to me too, no shock there). Other rare possibilities that are occasional zingers include overvoltage due to a defective regulator. Just rev the engine with a volt meter connected, make sure it stays well below 15v. Seen a few lately, and the result was a stalling engine on acceleration along with all manner of strangeness and every fault code imaginable. This is sometimes also caused by loose and / or corroded connections at the battery terminals and / or ground straps, these likely also causing voltage spikes.


What really caught my eye here was this phrase "The engine starts fine hot or cold and settles into a typical 500E idle (smooth with the occasional miss)" (my bold highlight). Again, if what I'm about to say is well known here, I'm sorry for wasting your time, but after talking with some other people lately, it dawned on me that something I thought was common knowledge apparently isn't. And that thing relates to these annoying individual idle "bump" misfires that so many of these engines are prone to. Years ago (like early '80s) I noticed that so many customers and hobbyists complained that this phenomenon started just after a spark plug change. Sometimes they actually changed the plugs hoping to cure this syndrome only to find that it got even worse.

As far as 119 engines go, it is far more common on the 93 and later cars because whether intentionally or not, the hot idle was speed was tweaked downwards in the E-Gas on 124 and 129 LH motors. Most of these 93 and later cars hot idle in the extremely low 500 to high 400(!) rpm range. There just isn't enough flow velocity to mix things well at those speeds, and the mixture at the plug gap is sometimes just too lean to light off.

The factory warranty fix at the time was simply to replace the E-Gas unit, as the replacement units were calibrated about 50rpm higher. Obviously it worked superbly, and just as obviously, you don't want to do that ($$$).

Here's something that cures that syndrome with 100% success in my own experience. This fix assumes a faultless secondary ignition system. It doesn't have to be all new components, but none of them can be deficient in any of the normal ways that occur, and that you're all already familiar with. And it assumes the non resistor plugs that these days are often only available at the dealers. Fortunately, those are still dirt cheap.

The fix is this: Open the plug gaps to about 1 to 1.1mm. Get some more fuel molecules in the gap and the misfires no longer occur. I have tried this on every MB 2 valve 4 and 6 cylinder engine ('86 through '89 103s love this), and every 2 and 4 valve V8. It is completely tolerated even at high speed and load. The only engine that didn't like it was my old 6.3. It misfired at high rpm full load with anything over about .7mm. YMMV, but if you've got this bugaboo in your car it's a cheap and easy thing to try and/or to undo if you don't like it.


Happy Motoring

Klink

 

[jhodg5ck]

The fix is this: Open the plug gaps to about 1 to 1.1mm. Get some more fuel molecules in the gap and the misfires no longer occur. I have tried this on every MB 2 valve 4 and 6 cylinder engine ('86 through '89 103s love this), and every 2 and 4 valve V8. It is completely tolerated even at high speed and load. The only engine that didn't like it was my old 6.3. It misfired at high rpm full load with anything over about .7mm. YMMV, but if you've got this bugaboo in your car it's a cheap and easy thing to try and/or to undo if you don't like it.


Happy Motoring

Klink

I'm with Klink...been opening the gap on these cars for years now. 1.1 is my pref'd. I have yet to find a down side...but you Must keep track of how many miles are on those plugs...riding them out past the 10-15K mark and you'll have Quite the gap/make that coil Work..!

I like that tidbit of info on the Egas modules..I learned something so I can go home now..especially handy being the first day back after the flu had it's way with me...Meh.

jono

 

[Glen]

I've never tried it on the M119 but have gapped my M103 at 1.0 mm for years.

 

[Klink]

I'm with Klink...been opening the gap on these cars for years now. 1.1 is my pref'd. I have yet to find a down side...but you Must keep track of how many miles are on those plugs...riding them out past the 10-15K mark and you'll have Quite the gap/make that coil Work..!

I like that tidbit of info on the Egas modules..I learned something so I can go home now..especially handy being the first day back after the flu had it's way with me...Meh.

jono

Thanks Jono,

I forgot to mention that. Yes, you'll definitely need a plug replacement or re-gap by 15K miles at the latest if you're doing this.


Glad you're feeling better.

Klink

 

[gsxr]

Veddy intevesting. We should probably start a new thread (or migrate Klink's post into a new thread and link to that from here). I've always gapped at the factory 0.8mm but have wondered if it there was any advantage to a wider gap. Think I'll fiddle with that next time I encounter one that has the occasional hiccup issue!

 

[texas993]

Veddy intevesting. We should probably start a new thread (or migrate Klink's post into a new thread and link to that from here). I've always gapped at the factory 0.8mm but have wondered if it there was any advantage to a wider gap. Think I'll fiddle with that next time I encounter one that has the occasional hiccup issue!

Me too!

 

[Cadence]

Updated my first post. It looks like my ETA is original from 1993.

Klink, thanks for the tip re the plug gap. If gapping a new set of plugs from 0.8mm to 1.0mm or 1.1mm cures the common 036 idle miss I will be very happy and grateful! On that note I noticed that my car seems to idle very low; wish there was a way to crank it up 50-75rpm.

 

[Allgonquin]

I can vouch for the low idle. My '93 is a tick over 500 RPM and I'd prefer if it was a bit higher. I have the occasional miss at idle. And I have experienced a few instances of the stumbling idle for no apparent reason, but knock wood it has fixed itself so far.

 

[gsxr]

I can vouch for the low idle. My '93 is a tick over 500 RPM and I'd prefer if it was a bit higher. I have the occasional miss at idle. And I have experienced a few instances of the stumbling idle for no apparent reason, but knock wood it has fixed itself so far.

FYI... the spec for idle RPM in gear is right around 500rpm. In P or N, it should be low 600's, but in gear, 500 is correct. It's in the FSM somewhere (sorry, forget where exactly).

If the wider plug gap helps, that would be awesome news. New ignition components (caps, rotors, plugs, etc) usually takes care of 90% of the issue but that last 10% can be a real bugger!

 

[gsxr]

UPDATE - I removed the airbox to inspect the ETA but couldn't find any markings or date code on it, mostly due to the fact that it was absolutely covered in grime and grit which leads me to believe that my ETA has never been replaced. At this point I am probably going to bite the bullet and send it to Beckmann for a rebuild rather than continuing to troubleshoot the problem. Fingers crossed

During the ETA inspection process I put my hand on the plastic tube that goes to the brake booster and cracked it so 'while I am in there' replacing the ETA I want to replace a bunch of the old rubber and plastic hoses, tubes and lines. Is there a post anywhere that lists all of the normal suspects to be replaced after 21 years?

You will probably need to replace ALL of the PCV tubes... they are supposed to be soft rubber, and I bet yours are all fossilized and feel like brittle plastic.

About $200 for all of them, diagram & part numbers are in post #6 in this thread:
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?1488-breather-hose-(-)-replacement

Pretty common repair item, once replaced, they should last another 15-20 years. The large tube (of the three which go to the passenger side valve cover) which connects to the ETA, requires removal of the ETA to replace. Convenient time to do all this while the ETA is out. Oh, plan on the black plastic tube that goes from the driver's fender through the intake, to the "smaller" PCV hoses... and the EZL vac tube which goes to the rear of the intake behind the ETA. All easy access while the ETA is out, and the tubing is cheap. Well, relatively.

 

[Cadence]

UPDATE…but not the one I was hoping to post!


I sent the ETA to Beckmann and they confirmed that is was the original 1993 unit and pretty much DOA. Their service and turnaround time was excellent.

When the rebuilt ETA was installed I also replaced all the PCV hoses, some of the vacuum lines and connectors, including one to the EZL that was previously broken in half, and a new FPR to replace the old one that was leaking internally.

The car stumbled to life but settled into a nice idle after about 30 seconds. I drove the car on approx six short (>5 mile) trips over a two day period and it drove perfectly…until today!!

Today on a short trip the engine completely lost power (momentarily) three separate times. These power 'cut outs' are quite violent, not just a small hesitation or drop in power, and I believe that the engine is essentially shutting off briefly. It seems like the rebuilt ETA and other maintenance items have improved the situation but not cured the problem.

To recap, the cutting out has thus far only occurred at part-throttle while in the 1500-2500rpm range, usually right around the time that you expect the transmission to shift from 2nd to 3rd. I am 99.9% sure this isn't a transmission problem.

Now I need to start digging deeper and replacing more parts Here is my list of suspects:

-Rear crank position sensor
-Fuel pump
-Fuel pump relay (is this only operational during start-up ?)
-EZL
-LH Module
-E-Gas module

 

[Klink]

UPDATE…but not the one I was hoping to post!


I sent the ETA to Beckmann and they confirmed that is was the original 1993 unit and pretty much DOA. Their service and turnaround time was excellent.

When the rebuilt ETA was installed I also replaced all the PCV hoses, some of the vacuum lines and connectors, including one to the EZL that was previously broken in half, and a new FPR to replace the old one that was leaking internally.

The car stumbled to life but settled into a nice idle after about 30 seconds. I drove the car on approx six short (>5 mile) trips over a two day period and it drove perfectly…until today!!

Today on a short trip the engine completely lost power (momentarily) three separate times. These power 'cut outs' are quite violent, not just a small hesitation or drop in power, and I believe that the engine is essentially shutting off briefly. It seems like the rebuilt ETA and other maintenance items have improved the situation but not cured the problem.

To recap, the cutting out has thus far only occurred at part-throttle while in the 1500-2500rpm range, usually right around the time that you expect the transmission to shift from 2nd to 3rd. I am 99.9% sure this isn't a transmission problem.

Now I need to start digging deeper and replacing more parts Here is my list of suspects:

-Rear crank position sensor
-Fuel pump
-Fuel pump relay (is this only operational during start-up ?)
-EZL
-LH Module
-E-Gas module

The first 500E that I sold to a friend around '97 had started acting that way last year or so. My other friend and best friend since high school has my second 500E. He has some electronics background. He told me that the electrolytic capacitors in either E-gas or the LH or both were failing as is common for a big European electrolytic capacitors. He replaced those capacitors in either one or both of those units. I think the car has been fine since then. It may take some time but I will try to get a report on that situation from him.

 

[jhodg5ck]

@ Cadence Just for S&G's, unplug the pass front wheel speed sensor....I'm curious if ASR isn't Freaking out and doing something Weird, so if it shuts itself down due to a "non functional" sensor...IDK. it's cheap/easy and quick..and well, I would give it a Try if the car were here.

@Klink, would be novel if your best friend still offered that service...;-)

Jono

 

[gsxr]

Cadence, can you clear all codes and then report what codes appear after the engine cutout? The codes may provide a clue as to the cause. Based on what you describe I would guess it is not the EZL or fuel pump relay, but remember, it's easy to diagnose from a thousand miles away behind a keyboard.

Klink, so far, the only symptom of the electrolytic caps failing on the LH modules is the "fuel pump relay clicking at idle", which has been reported many times. I've experienced it myself with several modules. All of them had the engine run perfectly even with the relay clicking away. I've opened up the E-GAS module but I don't recall many (if any) large caps... but I need to take another look. The E-GAS module is a relatively rare failure so far, but the more these cars age, that may change...

UPDATE: There are a few caps in the E-GAS module too, just not as many as in the LH module. However the E-GAS module is more difficult to disassemble as the transistor heat sinks are pressed into the housing. Way easier to just swap in another module, as long as they are still available for cheap.

 

[Cadence]

@ Cadence Just for S&G's, unplug the pass front wheel speed sensor....I'm curious if ASR isn't Freaking out and doing something Weird, so if it shuts itself down due to a "non functional" sensor...IDK.

Interesting idea. The cutting out feels more violent than when the ASR kicks in but as you said it is free and easy to try! Thanks

 

[Cadence]

Based on what you describe I would guess it is not the EZL or fuel pump relay, but remember, it's easy to diagnose from a thousand miles away behind a keyboard.

If neither of those do you think it could be one of the other items on my list?

-Rear crank position sensor
-Fuel pump
-LH Module
-E-Gas module

Please don't shoot me but I still don't have a code reader. Between work and family I have just about zero time to build one. Is there some place I can buy the correct code read/reset tools?

 

[gsxr]

If neither of those do you think it could be one of the other items on my list?

-Rear crank position sensor
-Fuel pump
-LH Module
-E-Gas module

What you describe sounds like the engine is shutting off briefly, so I'd look more at items which affect engine operation, not throttle control. ETA/E-GAS issues should (in theory) only feel like you took your foot off the pedal, not turned the key off. I've never heard of an LH module, E-GAS, or EZL fail how you describe. I could imagine a failing fuel pump as a possibility, or maybe the rear crank sensor. Also could be a bad connection somewhere. Codes would definitely help. One other question - when the engine cuts out, does the system go into limp mode, with ASR+ABS lights coming on and staying on until you re-start? If not, are there any idiot lights on the dash at all, during the engine cutout?

Please don't shoot me but I still don't have a code reader. Between work and family I have just about zero time to build one. Is there some place I can buy the correct code read/reset tools?

Yep, there's a guy on eBay who sells them. Fiddling with the 1mm pins through the cap in the CAN box isn't fun, if it's in the budget, I'd highly recommend getting a "breakout box" with numbered 4mm sockets, so you can use the code reader with 4mm banana plugs instead. Click here for eBay seller's warez. Remember to toss out the code list which he includes, and only use the PDF files attached in this thread.

 

[gerryvz]

Make sure you check the power wire that goes straight from the battery + terminal to the CAN box. That powers all of the modules there and when I had a bad connection at the battery, I also suffered a few occasional 1/2 second "shutdowns" of the engine.

 

[Klink]

Make sure you check the power wire that goes straight from the battery + terminal to the CAN box. That powers all of the modules there and when I had a bad connection at the battery, I also suffered a few occasional 1/2 second "shutdowns" of the engine.

 

[Klink]

My friend Tom told me that he'd come on line and share his experience with the capacitor thing shortly.

 

[J-Sauce]

What did they end up charging for a rebuild? I may have to do this soon.

 

[tcg1122]

Re: Engine pulsating when stopping

I just talked to Klink and he asked me to do a short post on what I did to cure a hard starting and drive ability issue I had on my 500E. The issues in this thread could be related.

The car over time got harder to start and would not accelerate smoothly. After a while it was very difficult to start. I noticed the fuel pumps would chatter and sometimes cutout for a short time (sub second). After a lot of banging my head against the wall I decided to replace all the electrolytic caps on the LH module. I ordered long life, high temp caps from Mouser ( or try Digikey, or Allied).

This not only solved my problems but the car never ran better (didn't own it when it was new, Klink did). Electrolytics go bad over time, I replace them all the time in Audio equipment. The under the hood environment is very hostile for electronics and it is certainly not surprising the caps were bad.

Just a couple of tips:

Use long life caps, I like Nichicons but Panasonics are great too.
If you find a Frako, replace it. If its not bad today it will be bad tomorrow.
If I remember correctly. quantity 6 100uf at 50 volt radial
4 22uf at 50 volt radial
2 47uf at 50 volt axial

The top of a bad cap will usually have a rounded look, but not always. If you replace one, replace them all.

There is a lot of copper in the boards so it takes a very good soldering station to heat the joints up to remove the old caps.

Good luck, Ill be glad to help if I can.

Tom (tcg1122)

 

[gsxr]

Previous discussion on this topic. Note that the symptom always present (thus far) is the clicking relay under the rear passenger seat:

http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?4554-No-fuel-pump-and-buzzing-relay

 

[Klink]

So, there you are guys. He confirms what gsxr said earlier. I was remembering that he also had a "complete drop out for a split second" issue as well, and that this may have fixed that too. I'll recheck. and re-report.

 

[KarlC]

Re: Engine pulsating when stopping

(snip)
The top of a bad cap will usually have a rounded look, but not always. If you replace one, replace them all.

There is a lot of copper in the boards so it takes a very good soldering station to heat the joints up to remove the old caps.

I don't have this issue, but I would LOVE to see a DIY step by step photo doc on this, maybe we could all benefit with a bit better running cars ?

 

[Cadence]

Make sure you check the power wire that goes straight from the battery + terminal to the CAN box. That powers all of the modules there and when I had a bad connection at the battery, I also suffered a few occasional 1/2 second "shutdowns" of the engine.

Sounds like this is worth looking into. I know the battery terminals are clean and secure but are you suggesting checking the cable that run through the chassis or just where it enters the CAN box?

 

[gerryvz]

Sounds like this is worth looking into. I know the battery terminals are clean and secure but are you suggesting checking the cable that run through the chassis or just where it enters the CAN box?

Check the end of the cable at the battery for connection tightness and corrosion.

Check the other end of the cable at behind the CAN box for connection tightness and continuity.

 

[gsxr]

Sounds like this is worth looking into. I know the battery terminals are clean and secure but are you suggesting checking the cable that run through the chassis or just where it enters the CAN box?

The positive battery terminal has two nuts... a 13mm which clamps the terminal to the battery, and a 10mm on the other end which clamps the CAN feed wire to the terminal. If either is loose, you will have problems. Double-check that BOTH nuts are tight on the positive terminal. There is usually no issue with the cable otherwise. Also never hurts to check for a loose nut behind the wheel (often found in my cars).

 

[Cadence]

What you describe sounds like the engine is shutting off briefly, so I'd look more at items which affect engine operation, not throttle control. ETA/E-GAS issues should (in theory) only feel like you took your foot off the pedal, not turned the key off. I've never heard of an LH module, E-GAS, or EZL fail how you describe. I could imagine a failing fuel pump as a possibility, or maybe the rear crank sensor. Also could be a bad connection somewhere. Codes would definitely help. One other question - when the engine cuts out, does the system go into limp mode, with ASR+ABS lights coming on and staying on until you re-start? If not, are there any idiot lights on the dash at all, during the engine cutout?



Yep, there's a guy on eBay who sells them. Fiddling with the 1mm pins through the cap in the CAN box isn't fun, if it's in the budget, I'd highly recommend getting a "breakout box" with numbered 4mm sockets, so you can use the code reader with 4mm banana plugs instead. Click here for eBay seller's warez. Remember to toss out the code list which he includes, and only use the PDF files attached in this thread.

After the cut out happens the car returns to totally normal behavior, no limp mode and none of the warning lights are on. I can't recall seeing any lights on during the cut outs but my focus is generally on where I will be able to pull off the road if the car actually dies

The cut out sensation does feel like some kind of bad connection but it will cut out on perfectly smooth roads and drive great over rough sections so it doesn't seem like a loose wire.

I will buy one of the ebay code readers with the 4mm plugs but where do I get the "breakout box"?

 

[Klink]

Previous discussion on this topic. Note that the symptom always present (thus far) is the clicking relay under the rear passenger seat:

http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?4554-No-fuel-pump-and-buzzing-relay

I knew that this issue had been addressed here before and that you guys knew about the caps as far as the the FP relay flicker went. I didn't know that it was my friend Tom that had posted it here before...

I need to get out more often...

 

[gsxr]

After the cut out happens the car returns to totally normal behavior, no limp mode and none of the warning lights are on. I can't recall seeing any lights on during the cut outs but my focus is generally on where I will be able to pull off the road if the car actually dies The cut out sensation does feel like some kind of bad connection but it will cut out on perfectly smooth roads and drive great over rough sections so it doesn't seem like a loose wire.

OK - sounds like you are NOT getting limp mode, which rules out a number of things. It's pointing more towards engine management (LH, EZL) and away from throttle control (E-GAS, ASR). Just my $0.02.

I will buy one of the ebay code readers with the 4mm plugs but where do I get the "breakout box"?

The MB one is $300+ from your favorite dealer, or you can get clones from China for about 1/10 that much. I've not used the ChInese ones, hopefully they work as advertised!

 

[Cadence]

The MB one is $300+ from your favorite dealer, or you can get clones from China for about 1/10 that much. I've not used the ChInese ones, hopefully they work as advertised!

Can anyone help with the Mercedes-Benz part # for the breakout box tool? My friendly dealer can't locate what I need.

 

[gsxr]

Can anyone help with the Mercedes-Benz part # for the breakout box tool? My friendly dealer can't locate what I need.

Make sure you are sitting down before the dealer quotes a price. USA dealer cost is up to $256, some dealers can charge 50%-100% more depending how greedy they are:

http://www.trademotion.com/parts/in...rcedes-Benz&action=oePartSearch&siteid=214089


The price in the photo below is many years old...

 

[Klink]

Do you know what every dealer tech on the face of the earth called that thing? Really, you didn't? It's called the Magic Mushroom !!!

 

[Glen]

With a little work, you can build one yourself. Here's one I built with an eBay 38-pin cable, a small box, and some banana receptacles...total cost about $30 and a couple hours.

 

[gsxr]

I wish I had bought another one as a spare back when they were ~$175. Ugh!

 

[Klink]

I wish I had bought another one as a spare back when they were ~$175. Ugh!

If it's only you using it, it will last forever. Most techs bought their own. The public property one always seemed to get dropped, then just put back on the special tool board for the next guy to find. Absolutely infuriating...

 

[baviking1]

Can anyone help with the Mercedes-Benz part # for the breakout box tool? My friendly dealer can't locate what I need.

Seriously Cadence; if I can build a $15 blink code reader in less than an hour, ANYONE can do it. You absolutely HAVE to start there with a W124; no ifs, ands, or butts (ha) about it. BTW using the pins isn't really that big of a deal if you can see them OK; I wouldnt worry about the breakout box (too much added cost/time for a minor convenience).

That being said, once you have it built and clear codes, the guys posting here are the best 036 minds you could ask for on a forum. They'll find your problem once you give them the raw data.....

 

[baviking1]

With a little work, you can build one yourself. Here's one I built with an eBay 38-pin cable, a small box, and some banana receptacles...total cost about $30 and a couple hours.
View attachment 29580

I must say, that is pretty freakin trick......

 

[Maui]

Will this one work? http://www.toolsource.com/mercedes-breakout-adapter-p-119347.html

 

[Cadence]

Enough peer pressure I just ordered the ebay/porscheapriliafan code reader version for use without the breakout box.

Hopefully this version works just as well as the real deal, even if it is a bit more finicky to check the various pins.

 

[Klink]

Will this one work? http://www.toolsource.com/mercedes-breakout-adapter-p-119347.html

Yep, it's one of the nicer ones I've seen.

 

[Klink]

Enough peer pressure I just ordered the ebay/porscheapriliafan code reader version for use without the breakout box.

Hopefully this version works just as well as the real deal, even if it is a bit more finicky to check the various pins.

Let us know how it is. Looks like a really good deal if it isn't junk.
Thanks

 

[Cadence]

FIXED!

I know some of you will be disappointed that I didn't diagnose the root cause correctly but I REALLY wanted the problem cured so I had my shop change a huge list of parts.

New:
Coils, plugs, wires, caps & rotors
1992 LH unit from gsxr
Coolant temp sending unit
Neutral Safety Switch
Fuel filter
Rear crank position sensor *I suspect this was the cause. The CPS in the car was original, had some cracks on the outer casing and we discovered the bolt holding in down was loose!

Now my 500E drives like Mercedes-Benz and Porsche intended it to