A Rare W124 E60 AMG V8 6.0L Supercharged Engine for Sale

[superstar]

While I was googling around, a came across this rare AMG V8 6.0L supercharged engine from Japan, at price tag of $25,000!
This is very interesting, and I thought we could share some infos about it.
Any Japanese translators? Please chim. in, and shed the light about this beast... What a beauty!!

http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e120770170

 

[Jelmer]

I see a module hooked up to the pully, that would imply it's a supercharger/compressor, wouldn't it?

 

[gsxr]

Yes, it's a supercharger... probably an Albrex kit as described in the auction listing. Looks like different engines in the photos to me though. And the oil pan is missing in the frontal view. And it's a 1992 motor with the early timing cover, so it WILL NOT work in 93-up chassis with the automatic belt tensioner, unless you also replace the timing cover with the late style. Pretty bizarre listing if you ask me...

 

[bing]

Bizarre indeed and 25k smackers!!!

 

[500AMM]

Hi.

This is a Albrex set-up, quite similar to mine regarding the supercharger assy. But the system else is a bit different.

It looks like the tension roller is missing?! That roller is placed on the upper loop on the belt close to the charger pulley, just because the slack remains there when the engine is running. It's done that way on my König set-up, and the reason is obvious. If that tension roller is not in place, the belt will slip and eat the teeths/ribs on the belt really fast. (..ask me how I know). So the belt needs to be quite tensioned.

25k USD is a lot of money, but if the 6.0 is documented, everything is complete and in working order - it is worth every penny.

-arnt-

 

[Jelmer]

If that tension roller is not in place, the belt will slip and eat the teeths/ribs on the belt really fast

How do you know?

The missus just went out buying clothes, so the 25K is a bit steep for me, but it's still a good price, isn't it? The 6.0L conversion alone costs 10k+!

Help me out here, how do I explain my boss that this would be a good investment? ;-)

 

[500AMM]

When I got my SuperMerc no maintenance instructions for the supercharger did follow, no manuals, no notes etc.. I talked to Mr.Gruber (Albrex founder) on phone but he didn't say much. I also talked to König, who fitted the supercharger, but they did neither have any instructions. So I ran with a belt tension based on my engineer sence and practice. When the belt got a slight slack it slipped under hard revs, which was hard to see or hear. This increased the slack gradually - more slip - more slack and so on. Suddenly were all teeths eaten in just some minutes.

As for the value and cost. In my previous post I said "IF"...the 6.0 is documented, everything is complete and in working order...THEN it is worth every penny. The pics presented on that engine doesn't convince me, sorry. But who knows, it can be bad pics only.

-arnt-

 

[Ron500E]

Help me out here, how do I explain my boss that this would be a good investment? ;-)

Hello Jelmer:

I can do no better than to quote a famous fellow Chicagoan, Alphonse Capone. "Never complain, never explain." By invoking Mr. Capone one rises above the unpleasantness of providing an explanation to the unworthy.

However, and this is a BIG however... if "The Boss" is also known as "The Misses" then perhaps a change of tactics is in order -- lest one's automobile registration plate also becomes ones home address and the en suite master bathroom has a big yellow Shell sign outside.
6.0L is nice, VERY nice, but living in a car, 6.0L or not, really doesn't make up for it. 7.3L on the other hand.... never mind.
Kind Regards,

Ron

 

[samiam44]

Some one should enquire about the 6.0 liter documentation. Does the engine have an AMG serial number?

 

[jhodg5ck]

drop the lower oil pan, you can get up in there well enough to measure the bore!

 

[gsxr]

drop the lower oil pan, you can get up in there well enough to measure the bore!

Jono, what tool do you use to measure the bore through the oil pan opening? Got a brand/model/etc? I'm guessing a bore gauge of some sort, with a really long shaft...?

 

[samiam44]

A 2 prong bore gauge would work- even a cheap one. I'd guess if you'd seen inside a real AMG 6.0 - then you'd know what the relief should look like in the bore bottoms. Heck, maybe just looking at the rod bolts counterbores and measuring that with a dial caliper.

Wonder what it came out of.. My Japanese is rusty. Does that come with the ECU/EZL and delivery at that price.. by super models.
You have to lower the compression for installation - isn't what the owner of one in Houston said?

 

[gsxr]

A 2 prong bore gauge would work- even a cheap one.

From up top, sure, no problem. Space from the bottom is pretty tight and I'm just not seeing how you could get anything perpendicular across the bore. The rod is in the way most of the time.

I'd guess if you'd seen inside a real AMG 6.0 - then you'd know what the relief should look like in the bore bottoms. Heck, maybe just looking at the rod bolts counterbores and measuring that with a dial caliper.

Ah, now that's a good idea... but that would only verify the stroke, not the bore. The block reliefs and rod bolt mods are needed for the stroker crank, not the larger bore.

Wonder what it came out of.. My Japanese is rusty. Does that come with the ECU/EZL and delivery at that price.. by super models.
You have to lower the compression for installation - isn't what the owner of one in Houston said?

The compression has to be lowered if you want high boost. I believe stock compression ratio is fine up to about 5psi? Maybe Arnt can verify that.

 

[500AMM]

Hello.

I don't have any exact figures about the boost pressure and compression on mine. But what I recall from talking with Walter König, it has 0.35 bar (approx.5 psi), and the decompression was done by turning down the pistons (..the stock E60 pistons in my case). That's what they mostly did on their M119 supercharging. I will try to get more exact information from König sometime in the near future. But it's no guaranty they'll give it out, but we can hope.

Regarding this Japan engine, has anyone managed to get some translation of the text? USD25k could be a good price, I hardly believe it's possible to come around this much cheaper - for the supercharger kit alone! The missing roller on top of the belt must be added to prevent slip, I'll try to snap some pickies of mine tonight to show. Gerry - if you read this, did the TG Auto (?) car have two tension rollers?

 

[gerryvz]

I didn't look that close to see what the arrangement of the tensioners was. Next time I see the car I can look though, and ask Hans the owner. Or if you want to call him directly, you could do this. Their contact information is at www.t-g-a.com

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

Next time I see the car I can look though, and ask Hans the owner.

Next time you see the car, bring a DSLR and take about 300 photos of all the blower-related items!!

 

[500AMM]

Hi.

I took a couple of 60 seconds video clips of my supercharger running. They are 114 and 118Mb, so it won't go posting them here directly I guess. How shall I do that?

 

[Jelmer]

create dummy account on youtube and upload them, works fantastic.

 

[gerryvz]

Or if you want, create a free dropbox.com account (2GB storage) or Google Drive account (5GB storage) and post them there.

 

[Taxi Driver]

From up top, sure, no problem. Space from the bottom is pretty tight and I'm just not seeing how you could get anything perpendicular across the bore. The rod is in the way most of the t


Ah, now that's a good idea... but that would only verify the stroke, not the bore. The block reliefs and rod bolt mods are needed for the stroker crank, not the larger bore.



The compression has to be lowered if you want high boost. I believe stock compression ratio is fine up to about 5psi? Maybe Arnt can verify that.

Looking at the pictures from Behrnads 6.0 rebuild you can see the pistons protroud quite alot and meassure the dia.
5.6 crank you can tell by counting counteweights they are all over.

"I don't have any exact figures about the boost pressure and compression on mine. But what I recall from talking with Walter König, it has 0.35 bar (approx.5 psi), and the decompression was done by turning down the pistons (..the stock E60 pistons in my case). "
OOH that hurt, cutting 6.0 pistons is like cutting diamonds, could it not be done by makinr room in the combustion chamber?

Now I have to ask when this subject i up, superch. in this and arnt's case by beltdrven turbo type charger, the question is, do they all blow through the ETA and where are the air flow meter situated? Are there any pop off valves or recirculated blow by when the throttle is closed at speed, are there no compensating for boost by raising the fuel pressure?

 

[500AMM]

From what I understand it's no need for a pop off valve or wastegate on belt driven turbos, because they slow down when the engine revs down, hence it's an immediate pressure reduction accordingly. The entire airflow goes through the stock flowmeter and ETA. On mine it's any A/F adjustment valve, all is preset by "programmed ECU" said by Mr.König. (I see the Albrex set-up differs from König, and have an additional nozzle and other flow meter). I have no more info so far, but I'll try to find out more.

About turning down the E60 pistons for decompression; I commented that to Mr.König, but he was relaxed on that and said it was normal routine for M119 engines, due to oversized pistons having high capability. My car was supercharged back in 1996, and at that time it was neither any worries about spare parts I guess. But I agree, today I would have used other forged pistons of any kind. I would neither enhanced the chambers in the stock E60 heads, that's even worse.

Regarding avilability of KITs and prices. The .036 was expensive cars, at the same price level as the S-class and SLs, and even higher. Adding supercharging on top on those M119 powered cars, and probably along with other nice mods, made those cars VERY expensive! So which people had the necessary funds for these cars? Money people and big spenders! But where are these cars today? I guess it wasn't that many build of them, and I hardly believe all are toast and left on the breakers, if so they would have shown up around, so they have to be somewhere. I think many of them are living a quiet life in car collections around, seldom driven and in good shape. So why should the owners take out the KIT and sell it - for the money? Nope! This is exactly where my car came from, a money guy with several high end cars in the stable.

Based on this assumption I think the shortcut for a supercharger KIT of this type, may be to buy a complete car or engine.