Anyone done an M119 Megasquirt or any standlone

[nasscmw]

Hi guys,

I am thinking of purchasing an M119 for my car and would really want a standlone, so just wondering has anyone ever done it before?

 

[gsxr]

Yes, it has been done, but it's pretty rare. What car would you plan to install the M119 in?

 

[nasscmw]

I am planning to put it into my 190E. So far I have found one person who has done it DIY and is from UK. It was a pretty awesome build because he managed to put together the height adjustable suspension as well. Before that i have seen pictures of another 190E in an outstanding bodykit with an M119 as well, I think this was from Germany.

Any information on when the M119 started using coil on plugs? Just a speculation that if i get these engines it would be easier to do a standalone. Today I did go to the junkyard to check out an M119 front clip from an SL, unfortunately it was the one with the distributor so i told the guy I'd think about it, i.e. if my assumption is correct that post 1994 had coil on plugs....Could anyone confirm on this? Thanks!

 

[gsxr]

The 119 had LH injection and distributors through 1995. From 1996-up it was coil-on-plug. I too would prefer that if possible. Keep in mind that the standalone injection will need to deal with the variable valve timing, this could be very difficult to dial in from scratch... but then again programming the entire fuel curve is going to be a nightmare anyway, plus ignition curve, knock sensors, etc.

 

[jhodg5ck]

Tim w/ his racing SEC has done a full stand alone setup on a 119, it's a Beast!


Where is this SL and what year? What do they want for the engine?

Stand alone systems are Very smart these days, they have base maps that will get the car running. My dyno shop down here does a LOT of full stand alone systems and if you have one that is moderately powerful currently it shouldn't take more then a few hours on the dyno to tune it in rather well. With wide band O2's and computers being as powerful as they are it's taken a LOT of the guess work out

Jonathan

 

[nasscmw]

Cool, I shall be on the look out for 1996 M119s then....

Any information on that SEC with the M119?

 

[jhodg5ck]

what would you like to know about it..?P

 

[nasscmw]

Oh just about anything and everything? ha ha!

Just the standalone build up process and what was required...

 

[jhodg5ck]

Well, to start, no stand alone on this setup. this SEC is running a 500SL .960 and all the various bits/wiring off of it.

Since this install was done I've found that you can make a 960 work w/ an M117 front cover which would simplify things in that you wouldn't have to clearence the frame rails for all the accessories, you can use all the stock SEC bits w/ some work. You'll lose the VVT on the intake cam, or had thoughts of hooking up an MSD which can be set to trigger various items @ certain RPM. but stand alone would make this all a None issue.
Using SL headers in the SEC you have to get creative w/ the power steering pump attachment. I think investing in an appropriate header would be Wise. This car still retains the tandem pump and SLS, if I was going to do the swap again and still use the SL accessories I'd ditch the tandem and SLS, they handle better sans SLS anyway. Also, the tandem pumps are something of a liability in comparision to the std single/power steering pump.

As for stand alone, MSIII is quite powerful and will teach itself a Lot before you have to sit down @ the dyno and start tweaking. Wolf EMS also makes a nice, reasonably priced unit.

I'm not Sure, but if the later .970 fuel rail will swap onto a 960 intake manifold that would make take a decent chunk out of the R&D. Only nice bit would be to have an adjustable FPR in place of the stock/static bit.

Not sure where you are located, but if you would like to chat about the car/sound board, give a ring 404 805 1357

Jonathan

 

[nasscmw]

Hi,

Oh sorry forgot to mention, I'm Malaysia. Thanks for the advice , at the moment I will be looking out for the 1996 M119 and since a few people have mentioned in using the MegaS, think I'll get that as well. My 190E is just sitting duck at the moment while i collect all the parts I need to build it as how i want it to be. My aim? Small car, big engine, inspired by Shelby.. HAH!!

Anyway below is a link of the pic I saved of the 190E with the m119, there are more pics on second link on the build and stuff, pretty good stuff! I think you have to register to see it...but just in case the site goes down like ecstacy, I saved whatever information I can.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/60647855@N07/5529971086/

s14.zetaboards.com/mercedes_190_club/topic/227323/5/

 

[Jord]

You're not limited to a 96+ engine. Just remove caps and let it run. I'm running on Ms3x and literally only wired up the firing order, told it the engine specs, set timing, and set desired AFR's and let tuner studios do it's thing.



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[samiam44]

That's cool. Jorg, 5.0 with a turbo? Please share.

 

[jhodg5ck]

You're not limited to a 96+ engine. Just remove caps and let it run. I'm running on Ms3x and literally only wired up the firing order, told it the engine specs, set timing, and set desired AFR's and let tuner studios do it's thing.
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You should see SIGNIFICANT gains once you get on a dyno w/ a tuner that knows his $h*t. Tuner studio is nifty but it def leaves power and efficiency on the table!

 

[Jord]

Oh yeah for sure. Tuner studios is just there to keep it from blowing up while I finish the build and cruise to the dyno.

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[Raffaelli]

Hi,

Oh sorry forgot to mention, I'm Malaysia. Thanks for the advice , at the moment I will be looking out for the 1996 M119 and since a few people have mentioned in using the MegaS, think I'll get that as well. My 190E is just sitting duck at the moment while i collect all the parts I need to build it as how i want it to be. My aim? Small car, big engine, inspired by Shelby.. HAH!!

Anyway below is a link of the pic I saved of the 190E with the m119, there are more pics on second link on the build and stuff, pretty good stuff! I think you have to register to see it...but just in case the site goes down like ecstacy, I saved whatever information I can.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/60647855@N07/5529971086/

s14.zetaboards.com/mercedes_190_club/topic/227323/5/

Hotrodding a 190e is a lot bigger undertaking than most people think. I've had two of them. Suspension wise it's a breeze to make it handle awesome. But as far as fitting a m119, it won't be easy. I've seen it done, and it's cool as hell, but lots of cutting. I wouldn't want to give up the hvac fan if that's what it took for an engine swap.

Back in the day I had fit a small block ford in one, much more space, and the exhaust is the other big issue with a 190e swap. In that instance, a passenger side turbo would simplify that issue.

My 400E is sitting in the garage, and I'm pretty sure I will just build a small block ford for it. Blasphemy for most, but the m119 is just a pain in the D to work on. And the Benz transmissions are rubbish.

I had bought a ms3x and powered up tuner studio for the m119. Never ran it though. It's a kick ass computer that will do a ton. And for the $6-800 that it cost is a great bargain.

 

[Jord]

Mercedes actually makes some nice transmissions. I mean turbo bandits is putting what like 1400hp through a 722.6?

And I like working on an M119. The turbo drain was super easy to make by removing the lower pan lol.

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[Jord]

That's cool. Jorg, 5.0 with a turbo? Please share.

It's a 4.2 for the time being.

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[maw1124]

Mercedes actually makes some nice transmissions. I mean turbo bandits is putting what like 1400hp through a 722.6?

Is that a built .6?

I ask because part of me says exactly what you say, the boxes are VERY stout. They kept the .6 in the S65 W221 for ‘07 because it was the only trans that could handle the torque. The W221 S63 got the 7GTronic, but the S65 kept the 5-Speed .6. Yet, I see a lot of tuned 65 cars (S and SL) needing transmissions, as if the box couldn’t handle the slightly higher power. Way short of 1400hp I assure you.

Part of this could be the torque management during shifts that get changed during the tune. But I’d have to think 1000hp comes with more than 700 ft lb of torque. So I wonder what gives...

But all that said, I’ve had Getrag and ZF units in BMW and Audi performance cars, and I’ll take an MB trans every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I see why MB keep it in house.

maw

 

[Jord]

Is that a built .6?

I ask because part of me says exactly what you say, the boxes are VERY stout. They kept the .6 in the S65 W221 for ‘07 because it was the only trans that could handle the torque. The W221 S63 got the 7GTronic, but the S65 kept the 5-Speed .6. Yet, I see a lot of tuned 65 cars (S and SL) needing transmissions, as if the box couldn’t handle the slightly higher power. Way short of 1400hp I assure you.

Part of this could be the torque management during shifts that get changed during the tune. But I’d have to think 1000hp comes with more than 700 ft lb of torque. So I wonder what gives...

But all that said, I’ve had Getrag and ZF units in BMW and Audi performance cars, and I’ll take an MB trans every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I see why MB keep it in house.

maw

I think he rebuilds them with stock internals from V12 cars. That's what he did with the 722.3 iirc. He uses the Ofgear tcu which my brother uses as well. The Ofgear tcu gives you full control. The tcu fixes the known "flare" in the smaller .6's as it gives you the ability to control pressure. I'm currently looking for a 722.6 and an Ofgear tcu for my turbo car because the 722.3 doesnt like to keep ATF fluid in it. And it just decided it likes 2nd gear only...

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[masterolsen]

How do you do the crankcase ventilation?


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[Jord]

Venting to atmosphere for the time being.

How do you do the crankcase ventilation?


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[BigWillieStyle]

You're going to want to read this thread, gives a good but brief idea on how to manage intake side VVT.

http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?t=22669

 

[M119Sleeper]

You're not limited to a 96+ engine. Just remove caps and let it run. I'm running on Ms3x and literally only wired up the firing order, told it the engine specs, set timing, and set desired AFR's and let tuner studios do it's thing.

View attachment 101851

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Here I am so many years later.

I have a 400e and a ms3x set up. I'm going to do the Kangaroos team manual conversion and a 5.0 swap at the same time. I'm trying to get a parts list together, but I'm struggling to understand what I need. I've read so much encouraging me to use the later engines because it will be easier to set up the sequential ignition, but the earlier engines have larger valves and double springs. So I guess my question is, can I use the trigger wheel and valve covers from the newer engines and use an older m119 5.0 from an early w140?

 

[gsxr]

...but the earlier engines have larger valves and double springs.

Double valve springs were only used through USA model year 1992.

Larger valves were used on all M119.97x engines (through USA model year 1995). There was no reduction in power rating with the smaller valves.

So I guess my question is, can I use the trigger wheel and valve covers from the newer engines and use an older m119 5.0 from an early w140?

Yes, you can convert the late valve covers and distributor-eliminating front plate from the .98x engine along with the .98x exhaust cam sprockets. Not sure if it makes any difference which intake cam sprockets you use, but those are different... and the sprocket bolts are different between .97x and .98x engines.

 

[M119Sleeper]

Double valve springs were only used through USA model year 1992.

Larger valves were used on all M119.97x engines (through USA model year 1995). There was no reduction in power rating with the smaller valves.



Yes, you can convert the late valve covers and distributor-eliminating front plate from the .98x engine along with the .98x exhaust cam sprockets. Not sure if it makes any difference which intake cam sprockets you use, but those are different... and the sprocket bolts are different between .97x and .98x engines.

I live in the US so getting the 119.97x engine will be fairly easy. Whats much harder is locating the 716.654 transmission that I'd like to use for the manual swap. I've read that some have used the Audi R8 coils, I need to wrap my head around what parts I'll need to talk to the MS3x now that I've sorted which engine I'll start with. Thanks for the help!