Becker 1432 and aftermarket external amplifiers and speaker?

[Jlaa]

I may be met with crickets on this one. I love the Becker 1432. I love the inscrutability of the controls. The cryptic iconagraphy. The volume bar. The head unit has so much character - I never want to replace it.

I am, though, not overly fond of the sound of the system. The whole sound I find sounds excessively warm and lacks dynamic range. FWIW I have Rainbows in the dash and and playing music from my phone through the CD inputs.

Anyways - has anyone ever heard of someone replacing just the amps (with their oe equalization) and the speakers?

In my view that would be really choice - OE head unit with modern amplification and modern speakers - maybe even Jehnert door boards.

 

[LWB250]

Are your amps original? I ask because the sound quality will improve with rebuilt amps. How much to your liking is difficult to say, but they will be noticeably better based on my experience.

Another alternative if you're willing to go this far is to approach one of the aftermarket vendors who gut vintage head units and install modern components. Not sure if that's an option, but it's something you might want to check into. It's fairly common in the hot rod/restomod community.

Dan

 

[northNH]

I like retaining that head unit as much as you, and have dash Rainbows as well. In my coupe I also find the sound with FM news/talk/music to be as you describe...better than decent, but not great.
However, with actual CDs from the (Alpine) changer in the trunk, and nice clean inter-component electrical connections I’m audiologically satisfied.

I recently pulled a complete 1432 system from a 400E; the fiddler/solderer in me looks forward to what you might come up with.

 

[gsxr]

I don't know if it's realistically possible to retain the 1432 head unit, and have it drive external amplifiers. You'd have to experiment and see if you can extract a line-out signal from the 1432 which would have an adequate signal for an aftermarket amp. Some sort of converter might be required. I don't know of anyone who has done this. (Disclaimer - I dislike the 1432 so I've done very little research into the upgrade. I love volume knobs, preferably analog, not rotary encoders.)

 

[Jlaa]

Are your amps original? I ask because the sound quality will improve with rebuilt amps. How much to your liking is difficult to say, but they will be noticeably better based on my experience.

Yes, my amps are original. Wow - rebuild makes a big difference? Im assuming the rebuild replaces some crappy degraded capacitors inside the amps? That’s what I am assuming goes bad inside those amps. I can’t imagine transistors would have a “time degradation curve...”

I like retaining that head unit as much as you, and have dash Rainbows as well. In my coupe I also find the sound with FM news/talk/music to be as you describe...better than decent, but not great.
However, with actual CDs from the (Alpine) changer in the trunk, and nice clean inter-component electrical connections I’m audiologically satisfied.

I recently pulled a complete 1432 system from a 400E; the fiddler/solderer in me looks forward to what you might come up with.

Yeah, I play my phone’s music through a CD changer emulator which has bluetooth connections, so essentially I am playing “CDs”. This definitely sounds waaaaaaay better than cassette or FM, but the whole sound I find is overly mellow and lacks punch.

I think route could be to figure out the pinouts of the DIN cable to the amps and then build an adapter to interface the output of the trunk tuner unit with modern amps.

Another route might be to take the speaker level outputs of the becker ampliers, run them through a de-equalization processor at speaker level and convert to line-level for modern amplifiers .... but that seems inelegant and not how I like to do things.

I have a couple of spare becker amplifiers in my parts stash. Perhaps I will take one apart.

 

[northNH]

“Yeah, I play my phone’s music through a CD changer emulator which has bluetooth connections, so essentially I am playing “CDs”.

—I wonder if there is perhaps a significant difference between CDs in the changer and “CDs” through bluetooth?
(Back in the 20’s, when asked what he thought about the newfangled thing called Radio, Will Rogers said “I don’t trust furniture that talks”).

“I think route could be to figure out the pinouts of the DIN cable to the amps and then build an adapter to interface the output of the trunk tuner unit with modern amps.”

—Agree; this is the straightforward part, but I can’t imagine anything other than trial-and-error will point to improved amp choice(s).

 

[LWB250]

Yes, my amps are original. Wow - rebuild makes a big difference? Im assuming the rebuild replaces some crappy degraded capacitors inside the amps? That’s what I am assuming goes bad inside those amps. I can’t imagine transistors would have a “time degradation curve...”

I know a couple people with late W126 cars that use the same setup that had their amps rebuilt, and they said the difference was quite noticeable. I would expect that the caps in these are dried out and pretty much toast by now. I know from direct experience with recapping Bose amps in the W140s and R129s that new caps make a big difference.

You could drop Becker a note and ask them exactly what they do for a rebuild. I would expect that they replace all of the caps, however, whatever else they do I have no idea. Tom or Ed would certainly give you the details if you asked, I'm sure, presuming they still rebuild these.

No reason why you couldn't recap them yourself, I would guess.

Dan

 

[Jlaa]

Is there a writeup some on how the 1432 system works / which amplifier drives what? I found this on another board — a little unclear but better than nothing! Because I want to retain the OE front end (HU, fader wheel, etc.) I think I will use the JL FIX to “reassemble” the original signal after the becker amps...
https://www.jlaudio.com/fix-86-car-audio-processors-system-tuning-98103

 

[LWB250]

Might want to look this over.

Dan

 

[gsxr]

Note: There are 2 different audio systems for each head unit type (either 1432, or 1492).

"Active bass" or "Active loudspeaker system" is a lower-end setup used on entry-level chassis (diesels, etc). These have a SINGLE, large amplifier.

"Sound system" is the higher-end setup optional on lower models, and standard equipment on the .034/.036. These have TWO, smaller amplifiers. Also, the dual amps are different p/n's between 1432 and 1492 systems.

The post from Jim (jcyuhn) references the Active Bass system, which is not identical to Sound System, so be careful if modifying things related to the trunk parts.

 

[maw1124]

Is there a writeup some on how the 1432 system works / which amplifier drives what? I found this on another board — a little unclear but better than nothing! Because I want to retain the OE front end (HU, fader wheel, etc.) I think I will use the JL FIX to “reassemble” the original signal after the becker amps...
https://www.jlaudio.com/fix-86-car-audio-processors-system-tuning-98103

You might check with the folks at Audison before choosing a JLAudio signal processor. Being a German Company, Audison may pay more attention to applications such as yours. It’s the only one I ever consider for my cars (all German), although never for this one (I yanked it all out before even considering options). “Warm and fuzzy” is not exactly how I like my music. I’m more into “Live”.

maw

 

[Jlaa]

In my other German fun car, I just junked an Audison bit ten processor. It was only 4 years old / 8000 miles on it. What would happen is an intermittent slow drop out of the front left channel that was super intermittent. It took me forever to find the problem ... had to first rule out speakers/amp/crossovers/Rcacables/headunit. I replaced the Audison with a JL Audio TWK DSP - so far so good.

In fact this troubleshooting is how I ended up w an extra pair of nearly new 6.5” focal drivers .... hence me wishing to reuse them in the 500E. BTW --- all this signal processing / equalization / time alignment of drivers make a super small cockpit sound FANTASTIC. I wish to do the same thing in the 500E.

 

[Jlaa]

BTW, The gsxr pointed me to the ETM for my query about how the Grand Prix 2000 (BE 1432) Sound System is configured --- so I'll post the applicable ETM page here for posterity. The fader is before the two amps, and the two amps seem to be 2 channels each.

Left Amp drives
- channel 1 - Left dash speaker + door speaker in parallel
- channel 2 - Left rear shelf speaker (two tweeters & a mid with built in x-over)

Right Amp drives
- channel 1 - Right dash speaker + door speaker in parallel
- channel 2 - Right rear shelf speakers (two tweeters & a mid with built in x-over)

If you look @ the ETM carefully, you will find that the thickness of the right side wire from the amps to the door speakers are half the thickness (0.75m2 [18 gauge]) as compared to the left side (1.5mm2 [14 gauge]) Weirdness.

 

[gsxr]

If you look @ the ETM carefully, you will find that the thickness of the right side wire from the amps to the door speakers are half the thickness (0.75m2 [18 gauge]) as compared to the left side (1.5mm2 [14 gauge]) Weirdness.

Thanks for extracting the PDF page! The wire diameter mismatch could be a typo; or it was reduced size if only carrying signal over short distance to one speaker. (?)

Schematics for 1994-up systems with 1492 head unit attached for reference as well. These have the fader built into the head unit, no console wheel.

 

[northNH]

In fact, the 1432 ETM page shows the different wire gauges L vs R of the COMMON feed for both the dash and door speaker circuits from CH 1...This makes no sense, and is in fact incorrect. Errors are on both sides of the schematic.

I just checked the harness-to-amp connectors on both my 1432 CE and parts 400. Both output pairs for each side, identical for L/R, consist of a 14ga supplying + and an 18ga —...That’s what makes sense, and that’s what’s out there here.

@Jlaa...If you still think you could make good use of them, I’d cut them parts car connectors out and send ‘em over.
Doubt I’ll regret it in the future, unless someone needs an intact 1432 F-R harness real soon...

 

[Jlaa]

In fact, the 1432 ETM page shows the different wire gauges L vs R of the COMMON feed for both the dash and door speaker circuits from CH 1...This makes no sense, and is in fact incorrect. Errors are on both sides of the schematic.

I just checked the harness-to-amp connectors on both my 1432 CE and parts 400. Both output pairs for each side, identical for L/R, consist of a 14ga supplying + and an 18ga —...That’s what makes sense, and that’s what’s out there here.

@Jlaa...If you still think you could make good use of them, I’d cut them parts car connectors out and send ‘em over.
Doubt I’ll regret it in the future, unless someone needs an intact 1432 F-R harness real soon...

Yes please! I would be much obliged if you cut them out with several inches of wire! I will send you a private message - maaany thanks!!!

 

[northNH]

Freshly cut, still oozing electrons and on their way to that bastion of Western Liberalism...

 

[Jlaa]

Thank you!!!!

 

[Jlaa]

Freshly cut, still oozing electrons and on their way to that bastion of Western Liberalism...

BTW - I have sent you a “conversation” (with this new board software I guess it is a “conversation” and not a “private message”) with reiumbusement and address details. Many many thanks again from the bastion of Western Liberalism (oh boy )

 

[maw1124]

First I’ve heard of Audison problems... good to know. My alpine had unit had all that time alignment, etc. + around 50W per channel (power pack amp, mated to the head unit), which made the cockpit (and extra thick glass) sound very good, though not enough bass to sound “Live.” And that’s where the real problem with these cars’ sound systems lie. I like JLA for subs and had considered them a close second behind Audison. R&D budget rules the day once again.

maw

 

[Dunnik]

I'm going the refurb and restomod route with my Becker 1492 system: have Becker Auto Sound refurbish the amps and the headunit, while also adding Bluetooth audio and AUX.

 

[gsxr]

I'm going the refurb and restomod route with my Becker 1492 system: have Becker Auto Sound refurbish the amps and the headunit, while also adding Bluetooth audio and AUX.

The 1492 system is soooo much easier to upgrade. A newer Harman-Kardon TrafficPro in-dash CD player is 100% plug+play, same connectors and everything. All my 94-95 cars get TP's. The aux input is available via dongle, but no blue teeth available.

 

[darek_u]

My $0.02 that may help you Jlaa. I have Euro car with Becker Mexico 2000 that is an Euro name for 1432 I believe. I have only radio and tuner/amp part in the trunk - this is a version for peasants but here in Europe it was a standard, extra amps in the trunk or sound system were paid options. I love the look of the stock system, just like you I cannot stand any modern audio in the classic car. But I like it to sound decent on the other hand... So here is my plan. I leave Becker untouched in place. I replaced front speakers with Rainbows but drive them directly from the amp - I bypassed the infamous fader by simply soldering the wires going from the trunk to the front speakers. I left the fader knob with light attached for stock look. I know I lost the rear speakers but here is part 2 of my plan. I purchased small D class Focal amplifier that I'm going to place in the trunk just next to the stock amp. It will get the low level signal from the socket on the back of it. I studied a little the schematics for the amp and I figured out that there is a low level signal taken directly from the amplifier chip provided on the back of the unit. I have picture and pinout in the office, I can post these later if anybody is interested in. So my plan is to get the low level signal from the Becker amp and feed it to the 4 channel Focal amplifier, run new wires to rear speakers (I'll replace them with 130mm Morel 2 way speakers) and move the front speakers wiring from Becker amp to 2nd pair of output from Focal. At the end I'll have Becker amp serving as pre-amp only, sound will be produced by modern amp. Minimum wiring is required - new wires for rear speakers are really easy to run, front ones will use existing wiring with little modification.
I tried to write it as simple as possible I have a feeling that I failed miserably here...

 

[Jlaa]

My $0.02 that may help you Jlaa. I have Euro car with Becker Mexico 2000 that is an Euro name for 1432 I believe. I have only radio and tuner/amp part in the trunk - this is a version for peasants but here in Europe it was a standard, extra amps in the trunk or sound system were paid options. I love the look of the stock system, just like you I cannot stand any modern audio in the classic car. But I like it to sound decent on the other hand... So here is my plan. I leave Becker untouched in place. I replaced front speakers with Rainbows but drive them directly from the amp - I bypassed the infamous fader by simply soldering the wires going from the trunk to the front speakers. I left the fader knob with light attached for stock look. I know I lost the rear speakers but here is part 2 of my plan. I purchased small D class Focal amplifier that I'm going to place in the trunk just next to the stock amp. It will get the low level signal from the socket on the back of it. I studied a little the schematics for the amp and I figured out that there is a low level signal taken directly from the amplifier chip provided on the back of the unit. I have picture and pinout in the office, I can post these later if anybody is interested in. So my plan is to get the low level signal from the Becker amp and feed it to the 4 channel Focal amplifier, run new wires to rear speakers (I'll replace them with 130mm Morel 2 way speakers) and move the front speakers wiring from Becker amp to 2nd pair of output from Focal. At the end I'll have Becker amp serving as pre-amp only, sound will be produced by modern amp. Minimum wiring is required - new wires for rear speakers are really easy to run, front ones will use existing wiring with little modification.

Bravo. I would love to see how you accomplish fetching low level inputs from the Becker amps. I can see the Becker amps use a ST Semiconductor TDA7232 chip the preamp stage, but the actual wires coming out the Becker amps in the car wiring harness for the low level seem veeeeeeery tricky to manipulate. Firstly, both L and R channels share the same ground, and secondly, the signal wires are jacketed by a coax cable type arrangement where the shield itself is connected to something. I am loath to touch it and am thinking to use speaker level from the Becker amps to drive aftermarket amps. Also, I am hoping to keep the fader.

 

[darek_u]

I just double checked and my radio is 1460 not 1432 but it doesn't matter - they are quite similar and I have schematics for both. I have limited knowledge of electronics and car audio, just an average amateur DIYer so please forgive me if the below information is wrong...
Here we go with the low level output. 1432 schematic extract:



Pins designation - please note that it's hard to judge from the drawing which one is #1 and which one is #6 - it shouldn't be a problem to figure it out on the live unit itself by detecting the +12V signal as it is either #3 or #4

NFMAS - AF ground (whatever AF means)
UBARA - +12V switched
NFSOR - AF sound right
NFSOL - AF sound left
MUTES - Mute line out (amp)

Picture of the line out socket:



Same for 1460:



There is a common ground for both channels, I'm not sure if this is going to be a problem...

 

[Jlaa]

I like retaining that head unit as much as you, and have dash Rainbows as well. In my coupe I also find the sound with FM news/talk/music to be as you describe...better than decent, but not great.
However, with actual CDs from the (Alpine) changer in the trunk, and nice clean inter-component electrical connections I’m audiologically satisfied.

I recently pulled a complete 1432 system from a 400E; the fiddler/solderer in me looks forward to what you might come up with.

I don't know if it's realistically possible to retain the 1432 head unit, and have it drive external amplifiers. You'd have to experiment and see if you can extract a line-out signal from the 1432 which would have an adequate signal for an aftermarket amp. Some sort of converter might be required. I don't know of anyone who has done this. (Disclaimer - I dislike the 1432 so I've done very little research into the upgrade. I love volume knobs, preferably analog, not rotary encoders.)

.... though not enough bass to sound “Live.” And that’s where the real problem with these cars’ sound systems lie. I like JLA for subs and had considered them a close second behind Audison. R&D budget rules the day once again.

maw

Update -

Let’s hope this works! Recap - I am trying to get the becker 1432 with "Sound System" (NOT "Active Bass")*** working with aftermarket amplification. My initial strategy was to make wiring harness adapters that fit between the car’s wiring and the becker amps. @northNH was gracious enough to donate two spare car-side wiring harness plugs to the cause. I took apart two spare becker amps to try and salvage the socket side but I destroyed both — gave up. The socket is too hard to salvage as it is soldered in so many places and there are so many little pins / traces.

Plan B - Signal level goes from becker tuner module in trunk —> fader wheel —> becker amps —> factory speakers. Take the wires between the fader wheel and the amps and socketize them with molex connectors for easy plug n play reversal. Route signal to new JL Audio amp. Have yet to power everything up, but I hope this works .... note wiring diagram —the blue is where the wiring was socketized with molex connectors to feed the aftermarket amp.


***NOTE for future readers --- "Sound System" systems can be identified by 2 silver becker amps in the trunk, and these amps are fed a full-range signal from the fader wheel. "Active Bass" systems can be identified by having 1 black becker amp in the trunk. "Active Bass" System are more difficult, as @2phast notes, because the black amp doesn't use a full-range signal.

 

[Jlaa]

Well! It works! And sound is super nice! So it turns out that it is totally possible to connect the Becker 1432 to aftermarket amplification ... for “sound system” equipped models, take the low-level outputs from tuner module. This is most easily found on the becker amp connectors in the trunk.... make sure you take the low level AFTER the fader wheel. You can reference the wiring diagram I posted in the previous post!

 

[maw1124]

That looks like a mighty compact amp for 8x100... must be a fairly new model. Well done!

maw

 

[gsxr]

Awesome stuff, Jlaa!

Now, if someone could figure out how to do the opposite... plug+play aftermarket head unit, with stock amps/speakers/etc.

 

[Jlaa]

That looks like a might compact amp for 8x100... must be a fairly new model. Well done!
maw

It is very new - it is a class D amp (circuit design allows it to be small) and it is the first one the market that combines digital signal processing on all eight channels as well as amplification. With the DSP, you use a tape ruler to measure the distance from your head to each individual driver - each tweeter, mid bass, midrange - and the thing will introduce time delay to each driver such that the sound all arrives at your head at the same time.

The effect is truly remarkable. I think I can best describe the effect like this:

• Time Alignment OFF - "Yes, I can tell there are new speakers, this sounds wonderful!"
• Time Alignment ON - "Holy shit, I can tell the singer is on the center of the hood of the car, and the instruments are L/R on the fenders!"
• Time Alignment OFF - "Hot Damn - this sounds like a hot mess now that you've turned off TA --- I know I said this sounds wonderful a second ago, but now I realize where the sound is coming from is just a hot mess!"

Anyways, this is all possible because the amplifier powers each individual driver separately, and you cannot do this with a modern headunit that has DSP because it doesn't have enough channels of output. It seems to me music in cars is all about software and tuning now, not just hardware (not just installing nice stuff). You can spend hours and hours in the car with the laptop (can you tell I have?), tuning the DSP just so (you plug into the amplifier with a USB cable). I've attached screenshots of the UI (it has a mixer, equalization, cross overs, time delay, and all-pass filtering [phase shift dependent on frequency] ... this last thing of which I have no idea how to use).

The neat thing is that all the capability is now miniaturized to the the point where you can install it in a car and have it look normal -- no need for a trunk full of gear --- which is not my style.

 

[maw1124]

Perfect. My Alpine HU has most of that built in but it's nearly a decade old now. And for this car, I pick a midpoint between the dash and door for the front time alignment, which isn't as precise as your amp seems to do. Plus it's time to replace the head unit, literally next week, so it's good to know what the "new" stuff is doing. Yes, it all went to software and tuning about 5 years ago. Steadily putting installers out of business for all but competition level sound systems. Yours is likely a step up from mine, with the door boards and more power, so now I can reasonably think about an upgrade. I still think digital source would help sound, even if you prefer old world aesthetics.

maw

 

[Duh_Vinci]

Ok, so I'm obviously late for the party! Great installation, love the dual drivers in the door panels with this kit. And this JL Audio VX800/8i amp, wow!!! What a great piece with all the options for fine tuning that it offers,

...it is the first one the market that combines digital signal processing on all eight channels as well as amplification. With the DSP, you use a tape ruler to measure the distance from your head to each individual driver - each tweeter, mid bass, midrange - and the thing will introduce time delay to each driver such that the sound all arrives at your head at the same time.

I'm definitely waaaaay behind on technology!!!

Regards,
D

 

[Jlaa]

Ok, so I'm obviously late for the party! Great installation, love the dual drivers in the door panels with this kit. And this JL Audio VX800/8i amp, wow!!! What a great piece with all the options for fine tuning that it offers,

Go for the amp in your r129. Aside from time alignment, it make rear fill really worthwhile, and all doable via software without having to do any crazy wiring.

There's this constant debate about whether rear fill is useful, and I even read some old "debates" between @2phast and @gsxr about it. I agree now with @2phast that rear fill is super worthwhile. If you are sitting smack in the middle of a concert hall, you actually do hear reflected sound from the stage in front you, which you are facing, from behind you. However, what you hear behind you is attenuated and also arrives to your ears later after being reflected. This makes the music feel very expansive.

So the neat thing with that DSP is to :

1) Feed L-R (left minus right) to both rear speakers. Yes --- the same signal to the rear speakers - mono. By subtracting right channel info from left channel info, you are eliminating anything that's the same across both channels of a stereo signal..... meaning you eliminate the the singer's voice. You just get the stereo difference from behind you. The singer is all still coming from in front of you.

2) Then you delay the rear speakers by 25 milliseconds or so, which is approximating a 25 foot long room.

The effect is really remarkable, and it just requires a bunch of mouse clicking to set stuff up.


Note - you know you have all this set up correctly if you turn the balance on your head unit all the way to L or all the way to R and you can hear the singer perfectly fine from the rear speakers again. This is because if R=0, then L-0 = L. So turning the balance all the way to L means both rear speakers are playing full-range-L (full range left channel).

Similarly, turning the balance on the head unit all the way to R would make both rear speakers play 0-R = -R.

 

[LWB250]

Go for the amp in your r129. Aside from time alignment, it make rear fill really worthwhile, and all doable via software without having to do any crazy wiring.

There's this constant debate about whether rear fill is useful, and I even read some old "debates" between @2phast and @gsxr about it. I agree now with @2phast that rear fill is super worthwhile. If you are sitting smack in the middle of a concert hall, you actually do hear reflected sound from the stage in front you, which you are facing, from behind you. However, what you hear behind you is attenuated and also arrives to your ears later after being reflected. This makes the music feel very expansive.

So the neat thing with that DSP is to :

1) Feed L-R (left minus right) to both rear speakers. Yes --- the same signal to the rear speakers - mono. By subtracting right channel info from left channel info, you are eliminating anything that's the same across both channels of a stereo signal..... meaning you eliminate the the singer's voice. You just get the stereo difference from behind you. The singer is all still coming from in front of you.

2) Then you delay the rear speakers by 20 milliseconds or so, which is approximating a 20 foot long room.

The effect is really remarkable, and it just requires a bunch of mouse clicking to set stuff up.


Note - you know you have all this set up correctly if you turn the balance on your head unit all the way to L or all the way to R and you can hear the singer perfectly fine from the rear speakers again. This is because if R=0, then L-0 = L. So turning the balance all the way to L means both rear speakers are playing full-range-L (full range left channel).

Similarly, turning the balance on the head unit all the way to R would make both rear speakers play 0-R = -R.

Yes, but would the rear fill have any effect on the R129's sound stage since there are no rear speakers in the stock car, only dash and door speakers? At least in the facelift Bose systems it's that way. The subwoofer is in an enclosure behind the driver's seat, but that's the only driver that's behind the seat.

Dan

 

[Jlaa]

Yes, but would the rear fill have any effect on the R129's sound stage since there are no rear speakers in the stock car, only dash and door speakers? At least in the facelift Bose systems it's that way. The subwoofer is in an enclosure behind the driver's seat, but that's the only driver that's behind the seat.

Dan

Oh sorry. I didn't know there are no rear speakers in the r129. That's unfortunate. That means you would not be able to make the r129's sound be so expansive. Sorry.

 

[LWB250]

Oh sorry. I didn't know there are no rear speakers in the r129. That's unfortunate. Sorry.

At least in the facelift models (96 and up). I can't speak to the pre-facelift models, I'm not familiar with them.

I like what you propose, however.

Dan

 

[gsxr]

here's this constant debate about whether rear fill is useful, and I even read some old "debates" between @2phast and @gsxr about it. I agree now with @2phast that rear fill is super worthwhile. If you are sitting smack in the middle of a concert hall, you actually do hear reflected sound from the stage in front you, which you are facing, from behind you. However, what you hear behind you is attenuated and also arrives to your ears later after being reflected. This makes the music feel very expansive.

To clarify @gsxr's opinion: He believes rear fill is VERY useful! Even better when time-aligned and DSP-tuned... and leveled down substantially from the fronts. Rear fill is critical for the front soundstage.

However, gsxr feels that the ROI is poor in upgrading the dual-tweeter, single-midbass driver array that is factory on all USA-spec W124.034/036, in the rear deck / hat-shelf. Note this setup was optional in ROW, and if a non-USA W124/C124 has the crappy full-range rear driver, hell yes that needs to be upgraded! The A124, S124, and V124 are all different discussions as they don't have the same rear speaker setup.

 

[linjam]

Being a German Company, Audison may pay more attention to applications such as yours. It’s the only one I ever consider for my cars (all German), although never for this one (I yanked it all out before even considering options).

Actually, maw, Audison is Italian. It's owned by Elettromedia. See here from Wikipedia:

Audison - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Jamie

 

[Duh_Vinci]

Go for the amp in your r129. Aside from time alignment, it make rear fill really worthwhile, and all doable via software without having to do any crazy wiring.

There's this constant debate about whether rear fill is useful, and I even read some old "debates"...

It is a beautiful piece, and so useful!!! Budget though... I recently purchased a HUD foreclosed home, and just discovered that the entire kitchen needs to be replaced because of the hidden prior water damage. Floors, cabinets all!!! So that beautiful amp is not in the budget for the moment. In the future though

Yes, but would the rear fill have any effect on the R129's sound stage since there are no rear speakers in the stock car, only dash and door speakers? At least in the facelift Bose systems it's that way. The subwoofer is in an enclosure behind the driver's seat, but that's the only driver that's behind the seat.

Dan

Actually, rear speakers were optional package on all years of R129, facelift or not. All had the option for little Bose drivers in the corners (very very limited space/provisions).

And speaking or the rear fill, age old question, to fill or not to fill Well tuned and well positioned/selected drivers - I like the fill and used it in all of the cars I've done. SL320 I used the same 3" Dayton driver, mounted into modified Bose basket



Then made an opening right above it and the same Peerless tweeters used in the rear as well (all covered in speaker grill for uniform look, before installing the tray compartments back in)



So @Jlaa I will go back that route again, and install the same Dayton/Peerless in the rear. Fun!!!

Regards,
D