Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

[Harv]

$200,000 Buick GNX

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1987-buick-gnx-2/

Someone did the annualized ROI calculation in the comments.

 

[msq]

I'm working with next highest bidder, helped arrange PPI.

To many inconsistencies in the story and on the car.

We thought it wise to pass.


Jono

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

"In Jonathan We Trust"

 

[gerryvz]

"In Jonathan We Trust"

In Jono, DITOG and Klink (Bitter & Nit-picky mechanics, all) We Trust.

And Ace for commentary.

 

[LWB250]

May I be anointed as the "unhinged troll of BAT" now?

I ask because I took exception to this auction as being "unBATworthy" due to the car's condition and the crappy and inaccurate ad copy that was written for it. The comments have now devolved into accusations that I'm shilling for the seller.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1980-mercedes-benz-300cd-2/

I'm waiting to play my hole card. When you get an email from BAT for an auction you've subscribed to, the email address of the sender is named, "BAT - The best vintage cars for sale online".

I rest my case.

 

[gerryvz]

There’s only one “Unhinged” Troll, LoL.

But BaT comments + peanut gallery = constant good stuff.

 

[LWB250]

There’s only one “Unhinged” Troll, LoL.

But BaT comments + peanut gallery = constant good stuff.

Hole card played. Right into their hands.

Did you like the way I segued the "puffy shirt" comment in there? I mean, come on, "seller observes that a repaint is likely"? Gosh, think the overspray on the window seal is a giveaway?

Who writes this stuff???

 

[Harv]

May I be anointed as the "unhinged troll of BAT" now?

I ask because I took exception to this auction as being "unBATworthy" due to the car's condition and the crappy and inaccurate ad copy that was written for it. The comments have now devolved into accusations that I'm shilling for the seller.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1980-mercedes-benz-300cd-2/

I'm waiting to play my hole card. When you get an email from BAT for an auction you've subscribed to, the email address of the sender is named, "BAT - The best vintage cars for sale online".

I rest my case.

The ad copy isn't as clean as I've usually seen. Odd.

I don't have a problem seeing no reserve cars on BaT because it can help add data points for sold cars. As long as the condition of the car is upfront and truthful, then let it ride. Most of the times on these no reserve auctions with less than pristine cars, the final bid is less than what the seller was hoping for. Very rarely does a price surprise me.

Like this diesel 140. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1993-mercedes-benz-300sd-3/ $3,900 is probably what that car is worth if you were selling it on Craigslist.

 

[LWB250]

The ad copy isn't as clean as I've usually seen. Odd.

I don't have a problem seeing no reserve cars on BaT because it can help add data points for sold cars. As long as the condition of the car is upfront and truthful, then let it ride. Most of the times on these no reserve auctions with less than pristine cars, the final bid is less than what the seller was hoping for. Very rarely does a price surprise me.

Like this diesel 140. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1993-mercedes-benz-300sd-3/ $3,900 is probably what that car is worth if you were selling it on Craigslist.

I think it's great that they are taking more cars that are less than pristine and offering them. It not only broadens their customer base, it makes them more attractive to buyers who don't have $10k or more to drop on a decent driver quality car. You saw the presentation on my 400E when I sold it. Sure it had 272k on the clock, but I offered it to BAT at no reserve and suggested that it would be a good opportunity for buyers who would otherwise be priced out of the market to see and potentially buy a nice, vetted car for a reasonable price. They wanted nothing to do with it.

But now, barely 8 months later, they're doing just that. Is it greed? Who knows. But whoever wrote this ad copy doesn't know this car from a hole in the ground, that's clear to anyone who does.

 

[Harv]

You saw the presentation on my 400E when I sold it. Sure it had 272k on the clock, but I offered it to BAT at no reserve and suggested that it would be a good opportunity for buyers who would otherwise be priced out of the market to see and potentially buy a nice, vetted car for a reasonable price. They wanted nothing to do with it.

But now, barely 8 months later, they're doing just that. Is it greed? Who knows. But whoever wrote this ad copy doesn't know this car from a hole in the ground, that's clear to anyone who does.

Yeah, that is one of things I've yet to figure out. How some cars are accepted and others aren't. Probably at this point in the game they are getting more submissions than they know what to do with and honestly probably don't have the man power to write all these auctions and keep an eye on them as well. So every submission that comes in can't be a 30 minute discussion with the rest of the people who make the decisions. I'm sure that happens on the heavy hitter cars that bring 6 figures, but a no reserve car is probably a quick yes or no based on something, I suppose.

 

[LWB250]

Yeah, that is one of things I've yet to figure out. How some cars are accepted and others aren't. Probably at this point in the game they are getting more submissions than they know what to do with and honestly probably don't have the man power to write all these auctions and keep an eye on them as well. So every submission that comes in can't be a 30 minute discussion with the rest of the people who make the decisions. I'm sure that happens on the heavy hitter cars that bring 6 figures, but a no reserve car is probably a quick yes or no based on something, I suppose.

They seem to be really inconsistent with what they do and don't accept, based on what others have told me and from my own experience. You'll see a car one day and someone I know will submit a similar car that's better than the one I saw listed and they turn it down. It's a mystery.

But wouldn't you think that with the volume of cars they're running these days they would try to find someone remotely familiar with the marque to write the ad copy? I am certainly no expert on all Mercedes models by far, but I know where I can research the information in short order and get something knocked out that's concise and accurate without the puffy shirt garbage. That's what I was really taken aback with on this one.

 

[gsxr]

...the email address of the sender is named, "BAT - The best vintage cars for sale online".

I rest my case.

By that logic, they would not list any 123 chassis. Ever.

They seem to be really inconsistent with what they do and don't accept, based on what others have told me and from my own experience. You'll see a car one day and someone I know will submit a similar car that's better than the one I saw listed and they turn it down. It's a mystery.

My theory: There are multiple different "approvers" at BaT, and they don't consult each other before accepting a particular car. If your submission goes to the wrong person, you're declined.

Very rarely does a price surprise me. Like this diesel 140. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1993-mercedes-benz-300sd-3/ $3,900 is probably what that car is worth if you were selling it on Craigslist.

The W140 300SD rodbender sale was hurt, IMO, because it was a dealer who could not provide any data on oil consumption. For that particular engine, oil consumption data (miles per quart) is a huge deal. The PO could have traded it in or dumped it because he knew the motor was on the way out. The selling dealer's response to the question was "...I’ve put about 300 miles so I haven’t replaced the oil to tell you anymore", and that was 2 minutes *after* the final/widding bid.

 

[ace10]

Another relist. High bidder ghosted the seller.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1991-nissan-300zx-4-2/

Not a new account. Placed one bid, well above market (IMO) and never uttered even a peep.

 

[msq]

I would not touch this one:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-mercedes-benz-c43-amg-8/

C43 is great car but this was originally listed on BAT as "clean auto check" then a commenter pointed out that it was listed by Carfax as a "Total Loss".
Once commenter did that BAT rightly put up a carfax, which does in fact show total loss. One commenter is speculating it was a theft (which would perhaps account for the interior being replaced; and the questions on the bumper).

 

[a777fan]

Wow. Talk about a nightmare scenario for the seller. Sounds like he’s doing his best to make everything as right as he can.

I cringed when I read the bit about the fact that there is a lien on this thing. I hope for his sake he’s not too upside down on this thing... but lesson learned, it pays to do your homework.

Side note: not sure I’d ever go for a 43. For whatever reason it feels like the 36’s older/fatter brother. Call me crazy, but I appreciate the days when a high strung 6 was enough for a car this size.

(This is all armchair qb’ing btw, i’ve unfortunately never driven either!)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Harv]

Yeah, I feel bad for the seller on that one. It sounds like he genuinely didn't know it was a total loss in 2011 and he even called the PD in Jersey to try to dig more into it.

I think it was a theft recovery car that had the interior stolen. Explains why the seats were swapped.

 

[Harv]

Also, this thing is super clean. Can't wait to see what it brings: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-mercedes-benz-e55-amg-15/

 

[msq]

The E55 looks like a nice one, low mileage, great engine etc.

The things that lends credibility to the C43 total loss being a stolen car is the fact the interior and bumper are non-original, however the wheels appear to be original 17" AMG Monoblocks that come with this car. Normally those would be stripped off the car, so unless the person who got it after it was recovered was able to get staggered 17" AMG Monoblocks it makes me question the "theft" story. Also that story is pure speculation by one commenter and it's odd the Police Dept has no record if the car was in fact in that jurisdiction. I actually feel bad for the first bidder as it did not come to light until after he/she bid.

 

[Harv]

I actually feel bad for the first bidder as it did not come to light until after he/she bid.

Eh, it's really non-consequential if the bid didn't reach the reserve, which it looks like it didn't.

 

[msq]

Eh, it's really non-consequential if the bid didn't reach the reserve, which it looks like it didn't.

Auction has 5 days to go. It may not reach reserve, but curious why you say it looks like it did not? If it has (which would surprise me) and high bidder placed his bid before the "Total Loss" became apparent, then I do feel bad for the bidder and BAT should make that right.

 

[Harv]

Auction has 5 days to go. It may not reach reserve, but curious why you say it looks like it did not? If it has (which would surprise me) and high bidder placed his bid before the "Total Loss" became apparent, then I do feel bad for the bidder and BAT should make that right.

The seller said in the comments that he might lower the reserve after he found out this info. Which leads me to believe it hasn't been met already. I have a hunch that BaT won't take reserves on numbers that low either. Usually they make you go No Reserve if you want like a 4k reserve or something.

 

[msq]

The seller said in the comments that he might lower the reserve after he found out this info. Which leads me to believe it hasn't been met already. I have a hunch that BaT won't take reserves on numbers that low either. Usually they make you go No Reserve if you want like a 4k reserve or something.

Fair enough, makes sense.

 

[maw1124]

Also, this thing is super clean. Can't wait to see what it brings: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-mercedes-benz-e55-amg-15/

Yeah, I saw that. It has some hair on it. It’s amazing how those numbers seem so ponderous in that car, but our 500E numbers feel so lively in ours. That’s the thing I remember most about the W210 55 cars. They’re actually what sold me on the .036. Now the supercharged version is a different thing altogether, but then you need an S to really enjoy it. In the E, the M113k feels boy-racer-ish. In the S and SL, it’s right at home. My opinions, anyway.

But I do love the front plate. Paddle shifters may have helped, it occurs to me.

Cheers,

maw

 

[Jlaa]

Yeah, I saw that. It has some hair on it. It’s amazing how those numbers seem so ponderous in that car, but our 500E numbers feel so lively in ours. That’s the thing I remember most about the W210 55 cars. They’re actually what sold me on the .036. Now the supercharged version is a different thing altogether, but then you need an S to really enjoy it. In the E, the M113k feels boy-racer-ish. In the S and SL, it’s right at home. My opinions, anyway.

But I do love the front plate. Paddle shifters may have helped, it occurs to me.

Cheers,

maw

I have never driven an M113 powered w210 .... what do you mean by “seem so ponderous in that car”? Does the w210 e55 feel ponderous compared to the m119 w124s?

I had an M112 powere w210 and it felt lively....

 

[Gatorblue92]

Here is another BaT auction that appears to be going to be going off the trails.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1994-jeep-wrangler-5/

 

[TerryA]

Wow. Talk about a nightmare scenario for the seller. Sounds like he’s doing his best to make everything as right as he can.

I cringed when I read the bit about the fact that there is a lien on this thing. I hope for his sake he’s not too upside down on this thing... but lesson learned, it pays to do your homework.

Side note: not sure I’d ever go for a 43. For whatever reason it feels like the 36’s older/fatter brother. Call me crazy, but I appreciate the days when a high strung 6 was enough for a car this size.

(This is all armchair qb’ing btw, i’ve unfortunately never driven either!)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No disrespect to msq (lol) but I prefer the C36 having driven both. On a visit to the UK, I drove my friends C43 from London/Harrow to a town on the English Channel and back. He was opening a PUB there. Although it’s a little faster than a C36, I found it to be jittery or antsy. I’ve only test driven C36s (more than one since I was looking to purchase) but I remember it being much smoother in power delivery and handling than the C43.

 

[ace10]

Here is another BaT auction that appears to be going to be going off the trails.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1994-jeep-wrangler-5/

Crikey.

There are Jeep people. Land Rover people. And Land Cruiser people.

That listing is exactly what I would expect from Jeep people.

[No offense to any Jeep fans who may read this.]

 

[gsxr]

*facepalm* Selling a high-dollar vehicle 101: Obtain both an AutoCheck and CarFax personally, BEFORE listing it anywhere publicly. Post both reports publicly in the listing (if the selling platform allows) and/or make copies available.

The S/T (signal-to-troll) ratio was impressive on the Jeep. Sheesh.

 

[Harv]

Here is another BaT auction that appears to be going to be going off the trails.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1994-jeep-wrangler-5/

Doug DeMuro with the truth.

[FONT=&quot]It looks like the Jeep spent some serious time between dealers in 2012 and 2013, but that’s how it goes with these ultra-low mileage cars with no comps — one dealer thinks they can do a little better than the dealer before them, and then the next dealer has the same thought, and some sales manager thinks they “have a customer for it” (who of course can’t get financing), and eventually someone has paid 20 percent more than it’s actually worth, so they let it sit in the showroom for six months gathering dust and hoping someone’s “gotta have it.” Then they eventually just cut it loose because they’re sick of jump-starting it.[/FONT]

 

[LWB250]

The S/T (signal-to-troll) ratio was impressive on the Jeep. Sheesh.

A "real" Jeep person wouldn't have AC in their Jeep. Really.




Dan

 

[gsxr]

A "real" Jeep person wouldn't have AC in their Jeep. Really.

Uh-oh. How was this overlooked by the BaT peanut gallery? If any previous owner was not a "real" Jeep person, that would drastically de-value the Jeep!

That, on top of having more than 2 owners... ouch... seller may have to pay someone to take it away. Even a low odometer and original 1994 tires can't fix everything.

 

[LWB250]

Uh-oh. How was this overlooked by the BaT peanut gallery? If any previous owner was not a "real" Jeep person, that would drastically de-value the Jeep!

That, on top of having more than 2 owners... ouch... seller may have to pay someone to take it away. Even a low odometer and original 1994 tires can't fix everything.

Wrong! If you look through the comments there are some purists who are taking the Jeep to task because not only does it have AC, it's aftermarket and it has a CHINESE compressor!! Oh, my!!!

Dan

 

[gerryvz]

Signal-to-troll ratio .... I'm going to have to remember that one.

I wonder how unhinged-ness skews the S/T ratio, though.

 

[maw1124]

I have never driven an M113 powered w210 .... what do you mean by “seem so ponderous in that car”? Does the w210 e55 feel ponderous compared to the m119 w124s?

I had an M112 powere w210 and it felt lively....

Seemed that way to me. A friend had them both at the time. Driving them both around for a few days, the AMG didn’t really impress me (or his SL500 Silver Arrow for that matter). But the 500E stuck in my mind from that time forward. I had to have one. And I’m still not quite sure why, except that the 500E seemed more lively and nimble, seemed to make better use of its power.

maw

 

[jhodg5ck]

Seemed that way to me. A friend had them both at the time. Driving them both around for a few days, the AMG didn’t really impress me (or his SL500 Silver Arrow for that matter). But the 500E stuck in my mind from that time forward. I had to have one. And I’m still not quite sure why, except that the 500E seemed more lively and nimble, seemed to make better use of its power.

maw

If it's gonna be a SA it Needs to be a 600. The 113's in a 129 feel like a Lexus. Devoid of personality.

I think the 210's are wonderfully utilitarian, they will Keep.on.Truckin despite gross levels of neglect. But they don't feel very Mercedes like to me...and Mercedes new that when they designed the 211. They brought some of that Weighty, Solid feel back...I was Pleasently surprised first time I drove one and Still enjoy it today

J

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[maw1124]

Exactly. They hit and they miss. The M119 in the .036, hit. The M113 in the W210, miss. The M113k in the W220, hit. Or at least that’s how I view it. But not every engine, trans and chassis combo is a hit, and for strange reasons. I always wanted a W211 E55, but when I drove it I was like, “Meh, it’s fast but...”. Then I drove an S55 and it was a wrap. “How much are you asking again?”

maw

 

[600Eric]

If it's gonna be a SA it Needs to be a 600. The 113's in a 129 feel like a Lexus. Devoid of personality....

Having owned a R129 / 600 I couldn't agree more. Only car I have ever sold that I have had genuine regrets for doing so.

...I think the 210's are wonderfully utilitarian...

Completely agree about that too and it's why I like 210's so much. In short they are very German.

I have owned a number of 211's and although I have nothing against them (well except the early ones with the M113 / .9 Tranny) I just felt that Mercedes had "softened" up the styling a bit too much with them (especially the interior). Obviously that is just a matter of personal taste and I'm definitely in the minority as given what the interiors look like today I don't see MB going back to "minimalist" styling anytime soon.
​

 

[ace10]

I would not touch this one:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-mercedes-benz-c43-amg-8/

C43 is great car but this was originally listed on BAT as "clean auto check" then a commenter pointed out that it was listed by Carfax as a "Total Loss".
Once commenter did that BAT rightly put up a carfax, which does in fact show total loss. One commenter is speculating it was a theft (which would perhaps account for the interior being replaced; and the questions on the bumper).

This seller has been getting pounded for five days straight.

BaT decided to step in with a coup de grâce and listed an apparently super-clean C43 with only 2 days to go on the other one.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-mercedes-benz-c43-amg-8/

BaT not waiting another 3 or 4 days to put the next one up is such a dick move.

 

[Harv]

BaT not waiting another 3 or 4 days to put the next one up is such a dick move.

One car is in Florida, the other in California. The overlap of bidders would be very very small, if any.

 

[ace10]

One car is in Florida, the other in California. The overlap of bidders would be very very small, if any.

They've auctioned a grand total of 5 C43. Ever.

This isn't an instance where they have 15 or 20 911's going concurrently and there's something for everybody.

If I was shopping for a C43, I wouldn't care about a car being 1000 miles away versus 3000.

 

[gsxr]

This seller has been getting pounded for five days straight. BaT decided to step in with a coup de grâce and listed an apparently super-clean C43 with only 2 days to go on the other one.

OUCH. So not cool.

One car is in Florida, the other in California. The overlap of bidders would be very very small, if any.

Ace is correct. Distance is irrelevant on (relatively) rare cars like the E500E or C43. Transport is not an issue. However, there's enough weirdness surrounding this car that the auction is guaranteed to end RNM/Bid-To. And the seller lost points for refusing to either investigate or acknowledge what appears to be an aftermarket front bumper.

 

[Ntrepid]

I've said before that BaT is missing an opportunity for buyers to question scarcity (i.e. "Will there be a nicer one on BaT and, if so, when?") while making a bit more money from both the seller and the buyer.

If they would offer an exclusivity listing fee which would prevent a duplicate listing for the identical model car. It would be easy for them to add to the $99 listing fee and, depending on the model (for instance a Porsche 911 vs. a Mercedes C43) it might range from $100 to $300 extra. Keep in mind that in my example, a Porsche 911 would be further subdivided into chassis (i.e. 993, 996) because it would be very expensive to have one 1 Porsche listed for 7 days on BaT and if they did, there would a standing line for the next 2 years with the volume of 911s they see.


Robert

 

[msq]

This seller has been getting pounded for five days straight.

BaT decided to step in with a coup de grâce and listed an apparently super-clean C43 with only 2 days to go on the other one.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-mercedes-benz-c43-amg-8/

BaT not waiting another 3 or 4 days to put the next one up is such a dick move.

Also, I am guess there will be a ~$15K difference in final bids between the two cars. Even if you bought the C43 with "the history" and then spent $15K on it, you could not get it in the state of quality/originality and long term durability compared the the 47K mile one.
If the engine checks out on the C43 with "the history" and you could get it for $5k - at least you have a driver that you can get a lot more miles out of - or at minimum an engine and transmission you can use. However, if the transmission was never serviced on that car (contrary to MB recommendation that transmission never needing service), then maybe you only have an engine.

 

[LWB250]

Also, I am guess there will be a ~$15K difference in final bids between the two cars. Even if you bought the C43 with "the history" and then spent $15K on it, you could not get it in the state of quality/originality and long term durability compared the the 47K mile one.
If the engine checks out on the C43 with "the history" and you could get it for $5k - at least you have a driver that you can get a lot more miles out of - or at minimum an engine and transmission you can use. However, if the transmission was never serviced on that car (contrary to MB recommendation that transmission never needing service), then maybe you only have an engine.

I still question the need for a transmission at 76k on the car with "the history". I asked and the seller poo-poohed my question, suggesting that this was not unusual or an outlier. I call BS.

Dan

 

[msq]

Agreed. Some small % of the C43's were known to have transmission problem, but the % was way overstated. For the most part if you ignored MB and did a flush & filter every 50k - 60k you should have been good. The 76k transmission was a red flag for me also.

 

[Harv]

The 210 E55 hammered for [FONT=&quot]$21,250.[/FONT]

 

[gsxr]

The 210 E55 hammered for [FONT="]$21,250.[/FONT]

Nice! I was hoping it would go higher to help my RENNtech sale, but still, ~$22.5k with fees... I could live with that. Buyer seemed surprised that he won, lol. Like the dog chasing the car and catching it?

 

[msq]

...Buyer seemed surprised that he won, lol. Like the dog chasing the car and catching it?

That is funny! Yes his comments seem like more like - Holy Cow, I accidentally got it, what do I do now.
If this only went for $21K then the 47K mile C43 should go for less than $20K in theory, you just never know with BAT. Similar miles but W210 E55 was much more expensive when new and is also rock solid car.

 

[ace10]

Here is another BaT auction that appears to be going to be going off the trails.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1994-jeep-wrangler-5/

Crikey.

There are Jeep people. Land Rover people. And Land Cruiser people.

That listing is exactly what I would expect from Jeep people.

[No offense to any Jeep fans who may read this.]

*facepalm* Selling a high-dollar vehicle 101: Obtain both an AutoCheck and CarFax personally, BEFORE listing it anywhere publicly. Post both reports publicly in the listing (if the selling platform allows) and/or make copies available.

The S/T (signal-to-troll) ratio was impressive on the Jeep. Sheesh.

The seller of the 8K mile Wrangler YJ has been trying to wrangle cats for six and a half days.

Naturally, BaT rewards his efforts by listing another ultra-low mile YJ this morning. With 7 hours to go on his auction.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1989-jeep-wrangler-6/


BaT has listed nine YJ's in the past year, but never two concurrently.

 

[maw1124]

Completely agree about that too and it's why I like 210's so much. In short they are very German.

I have owned a number of 211's and although I have nothing against them (well except the early ones with the M113 / .9 Tranny) I just felt that Mercedes had "softened" up the styling a bit too much with them (especially the interior). Obviously that is just a matter of personal taste and I'm definitely in the minority as given what the interiors look like today I don't see MB going back to "minimalist" styling anytime soon.
​

Yeah, unfortunately I think “Germanic” went the way of the shift selector in the floor. Are you exclusively using the paddle shifters in your W222?

maw

 

[Gatorblue92]

I think that's both pretty crappy of them but its also pretty awesome since the seller of the first Jeep is being so difficult.

The seller of the 8K mile Wrangler YJ has been trying to wrangle cats for six and a half days.

Naturally, BaT rewards his efforts by listing another ultra-low mile YJ this morning. With 7 hours to go on his auction.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1989-jeep-wrangler-6/


BaT has listed nine YJ's in the past year, but never two concurrently.