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Bring a Trailer (BaT) Auctions: Worth Listing Your Car or Not?

Haven’t seen any Konig cars in a long time. This is a nice example.

Konig did some outrageous wide body stuff.

Thanks for Posting
 
gsxr said:
This poor fellow doesn't understand the long game on a 7-day auction. The auction has been live less than 24 hours, there are 51 comments, of which FORTY-NINE are by the seller:

1990 Mercedes-Benz 300CE - Largely Unmodified, 3.0-Liter 6-Cylinder, Recent Major Servicing

Looks like a good project candidate at the right price, a lot of work has been done. But... no catalysts... new struts with no accordion dust boots and no stop buffers... ??

:blink:
Click to expand...
The seller ended with what must be a world record monopolization of online auction commentary.

92 of 125 comments were composed by the seller. That's nearly 75%.

The final value of the NR auction was $9600, and the seller just announced that the "winner" chose to walk away.

l-o-l
 
While we already know BaHaT will take anything without reserve, listing this as "26k Miles Shown" is, ahem, giving the truth an extreme makeover.

Since the car is older than 1981 there is no report available from CarFax or AutoCheck to help prove a massive rollback. Or, rollover at 999,999? The seller was awfully quiet, which says a lot. Zero records provided to show prior odometer readings over the years at indy shops, dealer, whatever. The VMI would be interesting, if anyone had access to it. Shame on BaHaT for not listing this as TMU.

Anyway:

bringatrailer.com

No Reserve: 1976 Mercedes-Benz 450SEL

Bid for the chance to own a No Reserve: 1976 Mercedes-Benz 450SEL at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #55,961.
bringatrailer.com bringatrailer.com

Remember when BaT used to list nice stuff?

1626574264d208495dPhoto-7-15-21-19-04-00-1-scaled.jpg 9025ef66e7dff9f98764dPhoto-7-15-21-19-13-15-scaled.jpg 265744137dff9f98764daPhoto-7-15-21-19-05-50-scaled.jpg 1626574764ff9f98764daPhoto-7-15-21-19-11-45-scaled.jpg
 
The part that got me on the 450SEL on BAT was the "rust free" claim. I am sure that is technically possible, but the 116 tends to rust pretty badly in certain spots, so with a dubious mileage claim to boot, "rust free" just ain't gonna happen.
 
ace10 said:
www.motorious.com

Bring A Trailer Instagram Account Hacked

Check your passwords, everyone…
www.motorious.com www.motorious.com
Click to expand...
I wish I would have taken screenshots of the comments. Some of the funniest stuff I’ve heard in a while. All the usual requests but applied to the girls in pics. I forgot most of them but....
How many owners?
Salvage title?
Undercarriage pics needed!
Lots of overspray and Bondo on the front grill
Is the rear bumper modified also?
 
Gatorblue92 said:
Some more BaH insanity...

bringatrailer.com

1983 Mercedes-Benz 300TD Turbo

Bid for the chance to own a 1983 Mercedes-Benz 300TD Turbo at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #56,622.
bringatrailer.com bringatrailer.com
Click to expand...
BaHaT tags the S123 as TMU (when it might be a legit odometer), but doesn't tag the 450SEL (from post #905) as TMU despite an obvious rollback? :yayo:

The wagon almost smells like money laundering, but there were a half-dozen bidders over $30k. Maybe there was a big sale at the green-cross pharmacies today.

:crack:
 
gsxr said:
BaHaT tags the S123 as TMU (when it might be a legit odometer), but doesn't tag the 450SEL (from post #905) as TMU despite an obvious rollback? :yayo:

The wagon almost smells like money laundering, but there were a half-dozen bidders over $30k. Maybe there was a big sale at the green-cross pharmacies today.

:crack:
Click to expand...
You know I was thinking the same thing myself... Its a complete outlier for ANY other S123 and while its nice its not $64k nice...
 
duuder said:
can you guys explain the money laundering aspect of it, thanks
Click to expand...
Its basically artificially inflating the value of something to make it appear that the source of funds you just received is legitimate. It’s more common with art and jewelry but it’s certainly plausible it could be done with a car as well.
 
^^^^^ most certainly done all the time with cars and with dealers that lend themselves to this. I don’t know how we got to a point where BAT is now the official barometer for ‘The Market’. It’s sad. But it is what it is.
 
^^^ It's now "pristine example dot com" to support precisely those activities if you ask me. You have ill gotten gains. Before year end you spend the ill gotten gains on a very expensive car. You sell the expensive car for what you paid for it. Where are the ill gotten gains?

Just one hypothetical. I'm no money launderer. As an early buyer of a few models that are getting "shine" right now, I benefit of course. But never would I buy at these levels because I know they are inflated and I think I know why they are inflated. Unfortunately some of what has gone up is not likely to come back down, so maybe I've missed out on those (Porsche 928, 993s or what have you). Or maybe I pay up later.

But there are still some screaming deals to be had out there, and some of this stuff will absolutely come back to 🌍, is my bet anyway.

maw

@gsxr The Green Cross Pharmacy... love it!!
 
Last edited:
JAB12 said:
^^^^^ most certainly done all the time with cars and with dealers that lend themselves to this. I don’t know how we got to a point where BAT is now the official barometer for ‘The Market’. It’s sad. But it is what it is.
Click to expand...
I don't believe that BaT is "the official" barometer for "The Market."

Are the inflated asking prices typically being asked by Florida / NY-NJ / California / Massachusetts "Flipper-Dealers" representative of "The Market?" Nope. Not in the least. And these flippers sit on the cars until they lower the prices to a more "Market-Correct" price. Which may or may not be in the same ballpark as a BaT auction price. Again, a Flipper-Dealer asking price is ONE INPUT to "The Market" but not a final, authoritative one.

Similarly, BaT is a notable input, but is NOT the final authority. Generally speaking, final sale prices on desirable vehicles on BaT are going to be infllated, sometimes considerably, as compared to equivalent vehicles sold on private sales.

In this case, I personally refuse to believe that BaT is what it is. It is ONE INPUT to what the market is, no more.
 
^^^ @gerryvz I agree with you but we are in the minority on that train of thought. I've transacted on half a dozen cars in the last 24 months, bought and sold. The reality is that on the purchase side, most sellers refer to BAT to justify their asking price. I don't do that when I sell a car, and certainly couldn't care less about BAT markers when buying off market, but when selling, I also don't have to justify my price, that, the car(s) do that on their own for me as they present themselves to potential suitors. Not BAT.

That's what I meant by the site being the "barometer" of the Market, whatever that means.
 
There are other barometers I'd use (at least for an E500E, or a 560SEC, which are cars that I know/follow) -- the Hagerty valuation, SCM valuation guide, NADA, Kelly Blue Book (if applicable), and other sale sites.

I think BaT is "easy" because of current/recent sales, searchability, and transparency of "sold for" prices. So lazy people just go there, but they do not tend to objectively evaluate what their car is actually worth based on condition, history, deferred maintenance needed, and so forth. It's very easy to just say "well my car is that same year, color and looks to be in the same condition as that 500E that sold for $XXK on BaT, so mine must be worth that too."

Even on BaT there is significant variability. I mean, a @deanlaumbach 500E is going to bring an automatic $10K premium due to cosmetic gussying-up (mechanicals and deferred maintenance be damned) over the same exact car on BaT offered by a generic seller. And that same car (as with the recent Dean 500E) would be available on eBay "Buy it Now" for 50% less just a couple or three months earlier. So say a car is a $50K car from an average BaT seller, brings $60K via Dean, but is a $40K BIN on eBay. 50% is a wide swing in price for literally the same car.

Guess it makes the case for all sellers here who want to maximize the price if selling their car, to use Dean to get a 25% lift !!
 
JAB12 said:
That's some expensive dry ice, I tell ya......
Click to expand...
Seems a good use of excess CO2 if you ask me -- perhaps dry-icing reduces global warming?

If I did the volume of cars that Dean did, investing in a dry-ice machine would probably be a no-brainer. You'd make your money back in a matter of a few months.....
 
Looks like they are being outbid lately.

They sold this 560SL back in July for $82K

bringatrailer.com

No Reserve: 9k-Mile 1989 Mercedes-Benz 560SL

Bid for the chance to own a No Reserve: 9k-Mile 1989 Mercedes-Benz 560SL at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #51,013.
bringatrailer.com bringatrailer.com

Looks pretty good - then this happened...

rmsothebys.com

1989 Mercedes-Benz 560 SL | Arizona 2022 | RM Sotheby's

1989 Mercedes-Benz 560 SL for sale at RM Sotheby's Arizona
rmsothebys.com

Not a bad day for a flipper...

1643574085764.png
 
LWB250 said:
Rates are highly variable based on location and time of year, too. I've got a great shipper (broker) I've used for years that does a really good job and has gotten me some crazy deals ($1200 from AZ-FL in an enclosed truck!) on occasion. He also gives me insight into what the going rate is and why, since there are so many variables that play into it.

$1800 for LV to KY or WV seems high to me. I would expect it to be more around $1200-$1500 based on my experience. It could have something to do with the route, though. That's where my shipper guy comes in, as he explains the reasoning behind the prices he's getting.

If anyone needs a good shipping broker, let me know and I'll share his information.

Dan
Click to expand...
Would like info on shipping broker? I need to ship a Bronco from Seattle to Sarasota Fl.
Thank You!
Jeff
 
I didn't think that Bring a Trailer would even consider that 450SEL. I wonder if i could sell my 94 Bentley there. It was in a land slide so there's not a straight panel on it, but it only has 10500 miles

1648749330227.png
 
BaH's success has made it a target for other crappy car journo sites.

This weekly column from Jalopnik is pretty damn funny.

jalopnik.com

Datsun 260Z, Ford Excursion, Ferrari 328: The Biggest Suckers On Bring A Trailer This Week - Jalopnik

Modifying your car is fun. You get to take something that rolled off the factory floor, built to serve a broad purpose, and customize it for your specific needs. In doing so, you give it personality, flavor, and a sense that the car truly is yours.
jalopnik.com jalopnik.com


Jalopnik may be an actual flaming bag of turds, but they get credit for publicly shaming the idiocy of the BaH culture.
 
There’s no explanation for auction bidding. In the past my wife and I sold antiques. We would attend up to 3 auctions per week for about 20 years. It never ceased to amaze me how much stuff was overbid. It usually happens when 2 people want something real bad and just keep bidding until one gives up. One example I remember was a wall clock (not even an antique) that could still be bought for about $125.00 that sold for around $650.00 + 10% buyers premium. :banger:This type is overbid happened regularly. Sure makes the sellers day;)
 
Last edited:
Jlaa said:
I find v-belts kind of irritating because using that Krikit tension gauge is kind of a chore. Its really hard to get really precise repeatable results with it, I find.
Click to expand...
I have an V Belt tension adjuster. I had to buy it when I had a 1988 V6 Mitsubishi Galant. It worked well when I had to change the assessory belt. If I remember correctly it was a Mitsubishi tool and cost a lot of $$$$ for a tool I used only once:runexe:
I haven’t seen it in years. It probably somewhere in my tool box.
 
Jlaa said:
I find v-belts kind of irritating because using that Krikit tension gauge is kind of a chore. Its really hard to get really precise repeatable results with it, I find.
Click to expand...
I have a krikit, but honestly never use it.

There's a much easier way, manually. You just find the midpoint of the belt between two pullies. Twist the v-belt 90 degrees, using some effort to twist it. If it takes a bit of effort to get it 90 degrees, it's tight enough. If you either can't get it 90 degrees, it's too tight, or if it is very easy to turn it the 90 degrees, it's too loose.

I once had my 560SEC's alternator belt fail whilst driving between Houston and Dallas, to a Mercedes Meet-up in Centerville. I was about 30 miles outside of Centerville when it failed. All of the other belts were fine (water+PS pump, A/C comprsessor, smog pump, and so forth).

I was able to continue the drive to Centerville, with all electrical accessories turned off, and just driving it on the battery electricity. Made it just fine, and sourced a new Gates belt at an auto parts store in Centerville. Spent 15 minutes with the MB toolkit tools to replace the belt in the parking lot, and (re)joined the group inside the restaurant for the MB gathering. Easy peasy.
 
Anyone else getting the "Your comment is being reviewed" message periodically? Usually with benign content?

Sample below from this auction where a peanut gallerist opined that the E63 wasn't worth his guess of a $40k reserve (hammer $30k, RNM) and then explained with an example of a dealer buying a car and flipping it, as if that somehow is relevant...?

:rolleyes:

1654027053048.png
 
gsxr said:
Anyone else getting the "Your comment is being reviewed" message periodically? Usually with benign content?

Sample below from this auction where a peanut gallerist opined that the E63 wasn't worth his guess of a $40k reserve (hammer $30k, RNM) and then explained with an example of a dealer buying a car and flipping it, as if that somehow is relevant...?

:rolleyes:

View attachment 147931
Click to expand...
You're in BaT comment moderation jail! Looks like someone complained about something you said (probably a snowflake) and flagged it, which puts you in moderation jail for a period of time (or until they decide you are back in their good graces).

@UnhingedTroll is a major BaT comment moderation veteran !!!!
 
gsxr said:
Anyone else getting the "Your comment is being reviewed" message periodically? Usually with benign content?

Sample below from this auction where a peanut gallerist opined that the E63 wasn't worth his guess of a $40k reserve (hammer $30k, RNM) and then explained with an example of a dealer buying a car and flipping it, as if that somehow is relevant...?

:rolleyes:

View attachment 147931
Click to expand...
I've gotten it where I mentioned "@gsxr" or "500E Board"... so it appears @gerryvz is correct in his conclusions.

maw
 
Funny thing is, only some comments go into BaHaT purgatory. Other comments are posted immediately. Seems my above comment triggered the posting polizei. After a few minutes, the comment was posted.
 
Yep, your posts are being flagged for review, and if reviewed quickly, they get passed through. If you post during the off-hours (at night) your post likely won't get passed through until the next morning.

Anything mentioned "500Eboard" or "Punch List" or a 500Eboard.co URL gets automatically flagged for moderation immediately.

I see that folks are getting around this in BaT comments by saying things like "500E forum" in relevant auctions.

If you mention 500Eboard, you won't get out of purgatory any time soon.

One interesting thing is that if a comment is flagged / delayed for moderation, even hours later or the next day, it will magically "appear" when OK'd at the original time slot that it was made in. Not at the end of an auction comment stream when it is actually APPROVED to appear.
 
maw1124 said:
I watch them all (BaT, CnB, PCar Mkt, MB Mkt, Autotrader, Hemmings). It’s all just data.

After all, your judgment is limited by the information you have with which to make it.

maw
Click to expand...
Agreed, and if I'm in the market for a car, I'll watch them to get an idea of prices and market trends. Otherwise, there doesn't seem to be enough time in the day (for me at least) to keep track of all these sites and what's going on with them.

Dan
 
I have always bought my cars via private sale, NEVER via auction. It takes emotion and the "thrill of the chase" out of the equation. And the limited information that can portend a bad judgment / purchase decision based solely on photos and words.

I also have always personally inspected my cars before purchasing them, sometimes multiple times. And as yet, I've never been disappointed by a car purchase.
 
gerryvz said:
I have always bought my cars via private sale, NEVER via auction. It takes emotion and the "thrill of the chase" out of the equation. And the limited information that can portend a bad judgment / purchase decision based solely on photos and words.

I also have always personally inspected my cars before purchasing them, sometimes multiple times. And as yet, I've never been disappointed by a car purchase.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I would be hard pressed to ever buy a car via an auction site, although I have considered it on a couple of occasions when I had someone nearby who could inspect it for me.

Dan
 
LWB250 said:
Agreed, and if I'm in the market for a car, I'll watch them to get an idea of prices and market trends. Otherwise, there doesn't seem to be enough time in the day (for me at least) to keep track of all these sites and what's going on with them.

Dan
Click to expand...
The alert systems are helpful for me to keep up with cars I “might” be on the lookout for, which “might” be being overlooked by the current hoard of flippers and money launderers. ”There’s always a bull market somewhere.” Every car I own now was overlooked by the market at some point, and/or is being overlooked now. And while I can’t scour the sites and lots anymore, I can get stuff sent to my inbox, which I can then delete, overlook, notice or not. Sorta like Tinder. Jokes🤣😂😅.

For now what I notice is anything that’s not manual transmission is getting affirmatively disrespected, which creates great opportunities, specifically for Mercedes Benz V8 cars that don’t happen to wear an AMG badge. There are some GREAT cars matching that description IMO.

maw
 
LWB250 said:
People still watch BaHaT?
Click to expand...
Don’t ask me why but I check it out everyday. It amazes me to see the money they are getting for what I consider lackluster cars.

The other day an old Toyota Corolla with 18K miles went for $35K?
 
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