Can someone please let me know if this is a real E60 Limited VIN?

[iidoshii]

Hi Guys

I am helping a friend try and find a E60, I found one claiming to be an E60 Limited, can anyone help me confirm or find out anything else about this car? the VIN # is WDB1240361C179307

Thanks

 

[fudgitive]

It's a limited built in September 1994 and sold in Switzerland, sapphire black with grey seat inserts. There is no AMG code on that car (data card attached).

Mike

View attachment W1240361C179307.pdf

 

[iidoshii]

It's a limited built in September 1994 and sold in Switzerland, sapphire black with grey seat inserts. There is no AMG code on that car (data card attached).

Mike

View attachment 58681

Thanks, the car I am looking at is here on this website http://www.charlesironside.co.uk/ I been communicating with the seller, he says its a E60 Limited. If its not coming up on the data card why is that?

 

[fudgitive]

Probably sent back to AMG after purchase by the original owner for conversion to E60 - it says 1 owner with supporting AMG documentation, so I don't doubt the authenticity of the conversion but it did not leave the factory as an E60.

 

[r44raven]

I know about this car, as I went to view it a few weeks ago. Charles has paperwork from Mercedes confirming that the car was modified to an E60 AMG by AMG in August 1995.

So not what we might call an "original" , but MB use this wording in a copy of the paperwork from them that Charles sent me.

At that time he was asking around £80k for it, which I considered too much, but other opinions might vary.

 

[Dario]

This place sold a LOT of vintage mercedes cars and quite a few 500E's which were listed as 500E so they know what they are doing. This looks like it was E500 limited from factory that was afterwards sent to AMG by owner

 

[r44raven]

This place sold a LOT of vintage mercedes cars and quite a few 500E's which were listed as 500E so they know what they are doing. This looks like it was E500 limited from factory that was afterwards sent to AMG by owner

As I said in post #5, Charles has a letter from MB confirming just this (of which I have a copy) - that the car was converted to E60 by AMG in August 1995.

 

[gsxr]

As I said in post #5, Charles has a letter from MB confirming just this (of which I have a copy) - that the car was converted to E60 by AMG in August 1995.

Put another way: Is the car an E60 AMG Limited? Yes and no:

Yes, it is a genuine Limited, and it has an AMG 6.0L engine installed by AMG, so in that way it is an E60 AMG Limited.

But no, it was not originally built as an E60 Limited - it's a conversion. A proper conversion, by AMG/MB in Germany.

Depends if someone is buying the car because they want an E60 Limited in those colors, or if they want an "investment"... the car may not be ideal for the latter.

 

[r44raven]

So is £80k a realistic price ???

 

[gsxr]

So is £80k a realistic price ???

Given some of the crazy asking prices we've seen for E60 Limiteds, the price seems at least somewhat reasonable, especially considering the low miles. Compare to the few other E60 Limiteds that have been posted for sale in the forum classifieds, I think the buyer will need to decide for themselves if it's a good deal.

It also depends on the condition of the car - the few small photos are NOT very helpful. A proper PPI would be required along with a close inspection for rust/corrosion. If it was maintained with open chequebook and is rust-free, that helps a lot.

 

[leadphut]

just for fun, here's some pics...

And now the circle is complete.

 

[iidoshii]

I know about this car, as I went to view it a few weeks ago. Charles has paperwork from Mercedes confirming that the car was modified to an E60 AMG by AMG in August 1995.

So not what we might call an "original" , but MB use this wording in a copy of the paperwork from them that Charles sent me.

At that time he was asking around £80k for it, which I considered too much, but other opinions might vary.

Thanks, Charles sent me that paperwork too. Just not sure what to consider this car? is it still considered a real E60 Limited? also when you say it in Person how was the condition on a scale of 1 - 10?

 

[r44raven]

We did not put the car on a ramp, so I cannot speak for the underside, neither did i drive it (I was looking for an ex-factory E60), but judging from the overall condition I doubt if there is much wrong with it. Charles has extensive paperwork covering all the servicing and maintenallnce. However a serious purchaser would need to get a full PPI done on the car.

As another contributor said, Charles sells lots of "older"MBS, and has a good reputation for this. It's unlikely you'd be sold anying rotten by him.

As for whether it's a "genuine " E60 , see gsxr's comments in #8.

 

[195910]

Thanks, Charles sent me that paperwork too. Just not sure what to consider this car? is it still considered a real E60 Limited? also when you say it in Person how was the condition on a scale of 1 - 10?

To answer your question: NO, its not an authentic E60 Limited. See my thread on how to prove an authentic E60 AMG.

But it is the 2nd best thing! A certified AMG aftermarket conversion (I have not looked at the document, assuming that others did)

Price is quite reasonable too, obviously we can't tell you much just by looking at these small pics.

 

[195910]

To better understand the collector classic market and the value difference between THE top car and the 2nd best, have a look at the 10day Mecum collector car auction that ended yesterday.
It was wild!

 

[iidoshii]

2 things I want to know about this car. 1. He is saying the wheels are Evo 2, but don't they seem to have a bad offset for this car? if you look close. Also, 2. the speedometer is a USA speedometer not a k/m one with the AMG stamping. Charles say the previous owner swapped the speedo out when they imported it from Sweeden to the UK, but why would they put a USA speedo on for the UK?

 

[500AMM]

2 things I want to know about this car.
1. He is saying the wheels are Evo 2, but don't they seem to have a bad offset for this car? if you look close. Also,
2. the speedometer is a USA speedometer not a k/m one with the AMG stamping. Charles say the previous owner swapped the speedo out when they imported it from Sweeden to the UK, but why would they put a USA speedo on for the UK?

The wheels are correct. I have the same on my Limited and they sit just like that without spacers, a bit too much inside the fenders in my taste. I use concentric spacers, 15 mm front and 10 mm rear, and custom length/cut bolts from RAD GmbH - now OTIS.

The speedo is likely replaced to comply with the DVLA requirements in UK for either dual Kmh/Miles speedo reading or Miles only. Our UK member Jim has posted this thread about the issue:
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2754

 

[Dario]

2 things I want to know about this car. 1. He is saying the wheels are Evo 2, but don't they seem to have a bad offset for this car? if you look close. Also, 2. the speedometer is a USA speedometer not a k/m one with the AMG stamping. Charles say the previous owner swapped the speedo out when they imported it from Sweeden to the UK, but why would they put a USA speedo on for the UK?

because Uk uses miles and speedometers like USA :-|

 

[500AMM]

So is £80k a realistic price ???

Given some of the crazy asking prices we've seen for E60 Limiteds, the price seems at least somewhat reasonable, especially considering the low miles. Compare to the few other E60 Limiteds that have been posted for sale in the forum classifieds, I think the buyer will need to decide for themselves if it's a good deal.

It also depends on the condition of the car - the few small photos are NOT very helpful. A proper PPI would be required along with a close inspection for rust/corrosion. If it was maintained with open chequebook and is rust-free, that helps a lot.

Good points, Dave!
The E60 AMG asking prices has lost ground contact IMO, so the buyers has to consider how bad they want it, and why they want it. If it is for the performance it may be cheaper to replicate an E60 AMG Limited; €35.000 (E500 Limited) + €15.000 (E60 AMG engine) + €10.000 (E60 AMG suspension) = €60.000 Just as a quick estimate.

Complete E60 AMG conversions shall include ALL parts & upgrades, which may not be the real case. I can just use my own '92 6.0 AMG as an example;
proven E60 parts:
- engine upgraded by AMG
- transmission upgraded by AMG
- front brakes upgraded by AMG

missing E60 parts:
- ECU is regular 500E, or the E60 ECU was probably replaced during the supercharging, because König installed upgraded ECUs anyway
- AMG air filter box missing, probably replaced during the supercharging
- no E60 suspension present, probably replaced with H&R lowering springs and other front shocks which the car had upon my purchase
- 300 kmh AMG speedo missing
- rear brake upgrade missing
- it still has the early manual belt tensioner, despite this E60 conversion was done in 1994, a good year after the late style belt tensioner introduction

So, the alleged "complete E60 AMG conversions" seen for sale around need a thorough check out, they may not be what it's claimed to be.

 

[195910]

Good points, Dave!
The E60 AMG asking prices has lost ground contact IMO, so the buyers has to consider how bad they want it, and why they want it. If it is for the performance it may be cheaper to replicate an E60 AMG Limited; €35.000 (E500 Limited) + €15.000 (E60 AMG engine) + €10.000 (E60 AMG suspension) = €60.000 Just as a quick estimate.

Complete E60 AMG conversions shall include ALL parts & upgrades, which may not be the real case. I can just use my own '92 6.0 AMG as an example;
proven E60 parts:
- engine upgraded by AMG
- transmission upgraded by AMG
- front brakes upgraded by AMG

missing E60 parts:
- ECU is regular 500E, or the E60 ECU was probably replaced during the supercharging since König used upgraded ECUs anyway
- it still has the early manual belt tensioner, despite the conversion was done in 1994, a good year after the late style introduction
- all suspension parts missing, or replaced with H&R lowering springs and other front shocks which the car had upon my purchase
- rear brakes upgrade missing
- 300 kmh AMG speedo missing

So, the alleged "complete E60 AMG conversions" around need a thorough check out, they may not be what it's claimed to be.

If you look at the Classic cars prices now you will know the we are underestimating our cars.

1971 Plymouth Hemi Cuda Cabriolet. 1of12 ... $3.5 Million !

How would the E60 Limited compare?

 

[iidoshii]

The wheels are correct. I have the same on my Limited and they sit just like that without spacers, a bit too much inside the fenders in my taste. I use concentric spacers, 15 mm front and 10 mm rear, and custom length/cut bolts from RAD GmbH - now OTIS.

The speedo is likely replaced to comply with the DVLA requirements in UK for either dual Kmh/Miles speedo reading or Miles only. Our UK member Jim has posted this thread about the issue:
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2754

Thanks, I agree on the wheels...

I had no idea, in the UK they use MPH not km/h?

 

[gsxr]

Thanks, I agree on the wheels...

I had no idea, in the UK they use MPH not km/h?

Yup! They have wrong-hand drive in UK, but decided the colonies had the right idea thumbing their nose at the metric system... go figure.

 

[iidoshii]

Yup! They have wrong-hand drive in UK, but decided the colonies had the right idea thumbing their nose at the metric system... go figure.

learn something new everyday!

 

[iidoshii]

To add, my friend was really interested in this car and the pictures on the site were small and very bad quality. I knew of a photographer in the UK, i paid him to go there and look at the car and take tons of high res pics. After seeing the pics the condition was not what I was expecting. The interior is very scraped up, all the wood had tons of scratched on it, the driver seat has stains, the door panels have very large scratches on them and so does the center console area. There is a small ding with chip on the driver door and 2 areas of paint on each door with ripples in it. We were prepared to buy this car for this price thinking it is pristine, but for the price it is not nearly as good as we were looking for. To some for a car this age it will be good, but my friend needs these as perfect as possible, so it seems this car is overpriced for what it is.