E500 ASR light and engine dies once warm

[Emppu]

Hello everyone.
After a long time of reading this board I finally decided to join.

The problem with the car is that engine dies once it has warmed up. With cold engine starts good and idles fine but once the engine begins to heat up it starts to idle unstable and backfires a bit. These issues will increase as the temp keeps rising and after 15-20min the engine dies and wont start again untill you have waited it to cool down a bit. Also ASR light in the instrument cluster

Codes pulled and the only one I`m getting is pin6 code 33 CAN data bus, interrupted.

Changed:
Upper wiring harness
Caps and Rotors
Sparkplugs
ETA
Breather hoses
Battery

Checked:
Module connections (looking good and no visible damage inside E-gas module)
Battery wires and connection


Also another separate issue I believe. SRS light not illuminating at anytime and unable to pull codes from pin30. The bulb behind IC is okay.


Any ideas what to look at next?

All help appriciated!

 

[195910]

Step one: Disconnect the MAF and see if it runs. if it doesn't, then reconnect it and disconnect the O2 sensor.

This is to see if its related to closed loop.

 

[Emppu]

Disconnecting MAF or O2 unfortunately did not help.

 

[r44raven]

When were the rotors/caps renewed? If they've been on for a while, you might be suffering from the dreaded "damp" distributor syndrome!

 

[Stevester 500E]

This "damp" distributor syndrome has landed many good cars in the salvage yards.
The other day I saw a beautiful E420. Looked to be in great shape.
I decided to look behind the insulator caps. The damp insulator syndrome struck again.

When were the rotors/caps renewed? If they've been on for a while, you might be suffering from the dreaded "damp" distributor syndrome!

 

[195910]

Disconnecting MAF or O2 unfortunately did not help.

OK, so its not a lambda control issue, but heat related.

Star diagnosis readings? live data?

 

[gsxr]

When were the rotors/caps renewed? If they've been on for a while, you might be suffering from the dreaded "damp" distributor syndrome!

+1. Backfiring after warmup sounds a lot like the liquid behind the distributor insulators. Search the forum, there are multiple threads on this topic...

 

[nocfn]

I vote a small amount of Florence back there.

 

[Emppu]

Will double check the distributors and insulators. Caps and rotors were replaced some while ago with bosch and if I recall right the insulators looked clean.

Unforunately its not easy for me to have acces to star diagnostics

 

[gsxr]

Will double check the distributors and insulators. Caps and rotors were replaced some while ago with bosch and if I recall right the insulators looked clean.

You need to check the BACK side of the insulators, which requires unbolting the rotor bracket to remove the insulator. The front sides always look clean & dry.

 

[olec]

Hi I have two different cars with similar problems over the years, both had problems with the upper wire harness, both of them the black 4 pin connector for the coolant sensor on the front top the wire insulation was coming of, you have to open up the harness a bit to see it.
The cars would run for a bit and shut down and when cooled down would start right up again and run til it would show a bit of temp on the gauge.
Perhaps check that out.

 

[Emppu]

The harness has been replaced. I checked the insulators and there were a tiny bit of moisture but cleaning them had no effect on the issue.
Starting to think it is a fuel related problem since timing lamp shows that it got spark when trying to restart after the engine has shut down. Also tried to pour some fuel right into the intake and it runs for a bit w/ hot engine. Will change the fuel filter and get myself an fuel pressure gauge

 

[195910]

The damp insulation issue (at least from my experience) would gradually fade away if the car is driven at a higher rpm for +10km as the dampness starts to dissipate.

The problem is that contrary to new cars, these M119 LH engines continue to run remarkably well even if something is wrong! at the same time this is the first generation of CAN-BUS systems and don't have advanced diagnostics capability.

One important diagnostics procedure that 99% of us haven't done is an engine analysis using an engine analyzer (oscilloscope graphical display of each cylinder's ignition/injection patterns ), this is a more advanced diagnosis procedure which can determine weak components and issues that don't trigger fault codes, but requires a real expert

 

[Emppu]

Update after a long time!

So after spending last year in miltary service (mandatory for all men to serve at somepoint between ages 18 and 30 here in Finland) and not been motivated to work on the car at weekend holidays

A while back I decided to have another look at the car. This time pulled codes also with Carsoft V12 system and got a O2 sensor code. Further testing indicated that the sensor was indeed faulty and I made a mistake last time while testing the car without o2 sensor . This time engine fired back up imidiately after unpluggin o2 sensor.

So after replacing o2 sensor the car ran like a dream so time for a test drive. Up to 3k rpm no issues whatsoever. After that engine ran like crap. Back to the garage and took another look at the fuel system. Found out that the another fuel pump was completely dead and after running the engine a while fuel pressure started slowly to decrease. Of course last time I did not found this out bc the faulty o2 would kill the engine before fuel pressure would drop.

New fuel pump and it runs like a dream

Still getting pin6 code 33 and ASR light on the dash. However I believe that the pressurizing pump is broken since Im unable to bleed the asr system and motor wont run even by directly aplying 12volts. Will look into this closer in the future to get the ASR working.

So ASR fault and engine misbehaviour completely unrelated.

Still some things to do with the car. For example major flare at 2-3 shift, hopefully superrior shiftkit will fix this. But main point the car is back on the road after 14years of hibernation (dad left the car to gather dust after the engine and transmission problems occurred ). If interst I can post some more info and photos of the car. After all i think the "500TE":s are not so common

 

[gsxr]

If only 2-3 upshift flares badly, check for a broken K1 spring. Might not need a Superior kit if the existing springs are damaged, or incorrect. Otherwise yes, the Superior kit may help, along with increasing modulator pressure.

 

[Efraim]

Sure, fotos are are ays welcome and good to hear that the car is back on road.
Where do you live in Finland?

 

[Emppu]

Update:
Been giving the car some time on the road and it is working perfectly apart from the asr problem and transmission flare.
The superrior kit did not help at all. What to look for next? Or should i just remove the trans and send it to get refurbished.

So the asr...
After ~500km the ASR light started blinking ocasionally and shortly after that the light did go out and asr started to function. I thought the problem was solved and I could now properly bleed the system. Got some old dirty fluid out but there was still some sort of blockade. The light did return immidiately after this.

As predicted the pressurizing pump was all jammed up with ~15 years old brake fluid. See the photo attached. Another great example why to change brake fluids regulary. The pump is now working correctly but it is getting no power. I was able to replace the fluids by running the pump directly with 12v from the connector. Wires to the pump are okay. Also did check wires coming to the asr/abs unit. Spinning wheel while ingnition on will make the asr/abs unit motor run in perioids. Motor will run aprox 2s in every 10s of time while spinning wheel.

And to complicate things even more after the asr light turned off and I tried to bleed the system the transmisson went to sort of limp mode. Wont shift higher than 2 but the throttle response is normal and engine runs overall great.

Still only code im getting is pin6 #33

Any ideas what to look for next?


Living in southern Finland. In Espoo just next to Helsinki to be exact

 

[gsxr]

If the "pressurizing pump" you show in the photo is the small pump below the master cylinder, this does not run all the time. It only runs when needed. During the brake fluid flush/change procedure (using a pressure bleeder!), you must follow the factory instructions (click here, see page 2) where you open port SP after bleeding all 4 calipers, and the pressurizing pump will run during the time port SP is open to flush out that circuit. Make sure the reservoir remains full during all of this work.

Code 33 is indicating a CAN transmission fault with some other module. There are NO faults present on pins 4, 7, or 17? Do you have a spare ASR module you can swap out for test purposes?

Transmission issues are separate... did you adjust the vacuum modulator firmer? That should have firmed up all shifts. If it won't shift out of 2nd gear, check fluid level first, but you may have something awry in the valve body. Or it's time to have the transmission rebuilt...