...found a new Owner. Hopefully the car will live. How- we´ll see.
No aff.
WDB1240361C188669
https://www.drive2.ru/r/mercedes/482137773998866440/
No aff.
WDB1240361C188669
https://www.drive2.ru/r/mercedes/482137773998866440/
-
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E60 Limited in worrying condition in Moscow...
- Thread starter 036
- Start date
found a new Owner. Hopefully the car will live. How- we´ll see."
Neglected, huh....wonder how much it will take to fetch the top prize tags we see today? How can a 124 036, 6.0 LTD fall this Deep?
Neglected, huh....wonder how much it will take to fetch the top prize tags we see today? How can a 124 036, 6.0 LTD fall this Deep?
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Well it looks this way. Just contacted the owner- he tells me he checked the car in Germany.
Anyway owner says also he is selling it and got an offer of 30 keuro ( 2 million rubels)
Everything must be checked...
He said he has, i didn´t see nothing. Anyway the offer stands another couple of days, he is thinking. If not sold- you might get to work
1 of 17 you mean?
WDB1240361C197661
WDB1240361C200075
WDB1240361C131823
WDB1240361C177608
WDB1240361C178567
WDB1240361C169787
WDB1240361C177228
WDB1240361C202094
WDB1240361C204818
WDB1240361C184306
WDB1240361C183327
WDB1240361C185952
WDB1240361C167589
WDB1240361C206302
WDB1240361C213356
WDB1240361C156658
WDB1240361C188669
These all have codes 957 and 958.
Have you checked if these are all factory E60 or include retrofit with code 957 added?
Unfortunately we must go with the number 12 as confirmed by many from M-B in Germany until more VINs are confirmed using more than just a recent electronic datacard.
How exactly does one determine if the code 957 was added to the datacard after delivery?
:?:
No, I only checked the VIN in several VIN decoders. They all showed 957 and 958. If code 957 - or maybe even code 958? - is added afterwards i cannot see. This list, that has grown by the years, does not prove it.
The link to your thread may be very useful. Till now i only paid half attention to it.
I might also send the list or parts of it to several MB dealers. In Germany. See if they can tell me more. Or even try it here in the Netherlands.
However, i tried VIN WDB1290762F146533 - which is 'said to be' a 1996 408 kW SL 73 AMG - at MB dealer Wensink Apeldoorn. They only came up with this.
All 44 VIN`s would be a nice proof.
There you go. 44 cars with code 957/958. No modifications.
For simplification, it's only as off the letter C in the VIN/FIN.
Sufficient proof? - check them in any known decoder. There might be a chance of a slightly higher number (1-4) cars in the total range of code 958 vehicles. Since they are reported stolen, no further info can be obtained.
For simplification, it's only as off the letter C in the VIN/FIN.
Sufficient proof? - check them in any known decoder. There might be a chance of a slightly higher number (1-4) cars in the total range of code 958 vehicles. Since they are reported stolen, no further info can be obtained.
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We seem to be reiterating the same discussion. The point I am trying to make is that codes 958 and 957 would need to be confirmed using more than just a recent Datacard. There should be more confirmations using documents/datacard from when the car was produced.
The Russian E60 LTD being discussed in this thread is showing the same engine number as in its datacard, which is one of the signs that we can use to determine if its a factory E60.
I do not have a personal interest in stating that the number is 12.. actually 44 would be in my interest . But until it is confirmed with period correct documentation (as stated in my thread) I think its not possibles say that the number is 44. As this will negatively affect the status and value of the factory E60 LTD
The Russian E60 LTD being discussed in this thread is showing the same engine number as in its datacard, which is one of the signs that we can use to determine if its a factory E60.
I do not have a personal interest in stating that the number is 12.. actually 44 would be in my interest
. But until it is confirmed with period correct documentation (as stated in my thread) I think its not possibles say that the number is 44. As this will negatively affect the status and value of the factory E60 LTD
For a private person it is difficult to gather all vehicle information and will maybe never be possible. What you refer to, is what you can check according to the printed data card in the service booklet etc. (which is correct). But also data card stickers can be faked and the AMG code can be added (even this is not so simple). Nevertheless it is always visible what was the original status of a vehicle (in the documentation system). this can not be "faked" (that term is also not necessarily correct) and it will always be visible (to the dealer or factory). So yes, a private person will have no chance to verify it and must rely on that info (or not, but that person will then just ignore the reality).
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Can someone tell me as to how an option code is added to a vehicle's data card "after the fact"? I do not see how this can be done. Once a car is produced and leaves the factory, its codes are struck in stone.
If a car is an E60 Limited, it would come from the factory with BOTH codes on the data card. Yes, it would be even better if there is additional documentation to back this up (such as a photo of the original data card as pasted in the service booklet, or a photo of the option sticker on the underside of the rear window shelf), but in most cases I bet there is no additional documentation.
I just do not see how a car can have a code added to its data card after the fact / after it is produced.
From what I can see, there are two distinct types of E60 Limited and/or E60 AMG (non-Limited) models:
If a car is advertised as an E60 Limited or E60 AMG, and its official record from MB (including the EPC datacard) DOES NOT contain both codes, then in my opinion it is NOT a "factory" E60 Limited / AMG, and would have been commissioned with AMG treatment by a dealer or customer subsequently after it left the factory.
If a car is advertised as an E60 Limited / AMG, and its official record from MB DOES contain both codes, then in my opinion it IS a "factory" E60 Limited / AMG, and would have been ordered by a customer or dealer as such at the initial point of order and payment for the vehicle.
Both types of E60 Limiteds are highly valuable, but there is a slight difference between them as to WHEN they were converted.
I will get and post the DEFINITIVE list of 957+958 VINs as per the EPC, which is the very closest thing we have to fail-safe documentation.
Cheers,
Gerry
If a car is an E60 Limited, it would come from the factory with BOTH codes on the data card. Yes, it would be even better if there is additional documentation to back this up (such as a photo of the original data card as pasted in the service booklet, or a photo of the option sticker on the underside of the rear window shelf), but in most cases I bet there is no additional documentation.
I just do not see how a car can have a code added to its data card after the fact / after it is produced.
From what I can see, there are two distinct types of E60 Limited and/or E60 AMG (non-Limited) models:
If a car is advertised as an E60 Limited or E60 AMG, and its official record from MB (including the EPC datacard) DOES NOT contain both codes, then in my opinion it is NOT a "factory" E60 Limited / AMG, and would have been commissioned with AMG treatment by a dealer or customer subsequently after it left the factory.
If a car is advertised as an E60 Limited / AMG, and its official record from MB DOES contain both codes, then in my opinion it IS a "factory" E60 Limited / AMG, and would have been ordered by a customer or dealer as such at the initial point of order and payment for the vehicle.
Both types of E60 Limiteds are highly valuable, but there is a slight difference between them as to WHEN they were converted.
I will get and post the DEFINITIVE list of 957+958 VINs as per the EPC, which is the very closest thing we have to fail-safe documentation.
Cheers,
Gerry
You are right Gerry. This is the way of checking this out, confirm it on the data card supplied and or production sticker under the rear shelf, go to the dealer and get a EPC data card. Compare it and then you can be already quite sure what is the vehicle status.
I am not aware of the possibility to check the datacard amendment history and whither this record would show old amendments (i.e 23 years) or only more recent amendments.
It would be useful to know if the amendment history has a date limit or if it will show such old amendments.
The additional methods I mentioned would confirm any specific cars. I have recently Checked an E60 LTD (vehicle known on the forum) and found that the Engine number matches the datacard and documentation. The original service book and production sticker shows 957+958. The engine number IS NOT amended or re stamped (AMG 6.0) as with the aftermarket cars.
Anyway it makes no difference to me personally but I would like to confirm the number as sources from Mercedes in Germany still state 12... so you must change their reality.
https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/ats_vehicle/mercedes-benz-e60-amg-limited/
It would be useful to know if the amendment history has a date limit or if it will show such old amendments.
The additional methods I mentioned would confirm any specific cars. I have recently Checked an E60 LTD (vehicle known on the forum) and found that the Engine number matches the datacard and documentation. The original service book and production sticker shows 957+958. The engine number IS NOT amended or re stamped (AMG 6.0) as with the aftermarket cars.
Anyway it makes no difference to me personally but I would like to confirm the number as sources from Mercedes in Germany still state 12... so you must change their reality.
https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/ats_vehicle/mercedes-benz-e60-amg-limited/
This is coming. MB's own EPC data with cars showing both codes will change their reality.
I must not do anything. Marketing and reality are often quite different. It's a wrong believe and even they might have not done their homework well - unfortunately, by carrying over wrong statements without clarification
Ahmed if we meet once again, I m happy to discuss this topic further personally and I m quite sure that you will agree with me.
All the AMG engines of this period carry the regular engine number plus the AMG serial number. There is only a change of the stamping location on the M119 block. Even the retrofitted cars have matching engine numbers. Why, because the blocks have been restamped. Even so if the base engine came with an open deck design where then a closed deck block was used with the number carried over.
Ahmed if we meet once again, I m happy to discuss this topic further personally and I m quite sure that you will agree with me.
All the AMG engines of this period carry the regular engine number plus the AMG serial number. There is only a change of the stamping location on the M119 block. Even the retrofitted cars have matching engine numbers. Why, because the blocks have been restamped. Even so if the base engine came with an open deck design where then a closed deck block was used with the number carried over.
I have personally seen a clean 1993 E60 AMG (not a Limited) in Japan. Maybe one of the first E60 AMG's?
This is what the owner stated, but I do not see the 957 or 958 in the plate with codes near the VIN.
Which is the AMG code only?
Which is the Limited code?
I do not have access to EPC so reading this thread got me to check the photo near the VIN I am talking about.
Was is this car a true AMG factory production?
I am sure MB and/or AMG have history and can "filter" in their system factory AMG's and Limited produced or both codes as stated in above posts.
This is just my opinion, I never used EPC.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is what the owner stated, but I do not see the 957 or 958 in the plate with codes near the VIN.
Which is the AMG code only?
Which is the Limited code?
I do not have access to EPC so reading this thread got me to check the photo near the VIN I am talking about.
Was is this car a true AMG factory production?
I am sure MB and/or AMG have history and can "filter" in their system factory AMG's and Limited produced or both codes as stated in above posts.
This is just my opinion, I never used EPC.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Would you post them? Looking quite a time for this information to stop finally all wrong numbers which i see daily on internet...
I have an idea of how this may be possible. I'm not saying it is possible because I haven't seen completely behind the curtain, but it may be.
As an example, I had a client that bought a 1 year old E63s Wagon and wanted to retrofit the carbon-ceramic brakes for track day fun. While a VERY expensive proposition, it was completely possible. Of course buying the parts and physically retrofitting them onto the vehicle is quite simple. However what makes it a professional installation is updating the software and coding in the many vehicle system ECU's that interact with the braking system such as ESP, Airmatic, ME, SAM Modules, etc... so that they have the correct function and programming to deal with the increased friction bite of the carbon ceramic brakes. In order to do this Daimler Service Engineering must be contacted and have them add the option code for carbon ceramic brakes to the VEDOC Data card which is where the EPC and VMI reports pull their info from for data cards and vehicle information. Once this option code is added to the Vehicle Data, then the correct software can be obtained and coding can be performed. So if anyone were ever to look up brake parts on this car in the future it would show the correct carbon ceramic replacement parts and nobody would ever know it didn't come that way from the factory.
I have personally done this several times with many option retrofits similar to the example above. While it's not easy, it's certainly not impossible. Whether it can be done on a 23 year old vehicle or with an AMG option code, I have no idea because I've never attempted that. But it stands to reason that it may be possible? I would expect that with a company as large as Daimler AG there are probably a lot of engineers with access to VEDOC that can modify the data for vehicles.
SG-Motorsports- thank you, heard similar story about an M5 couple of years ago.
Good to know, but ( i´m very sorry) has nothing to do with the process happening in the late 80´s- early 90´s.
Everything was manual. Even computers used to develop and make 124036 were feeded manually. The only possibility for those codes ( any of them) to be registered by MB was the Purchase agreement. If a buyer didn´t mark 957- it was not on datacard, not in VIN etc. It was not MANUALLY put into the car or any other plates, stamps etc. So there is no way that a "new" post-production code would appear on any plate or MANUALLY filled into EPC....
That´s why for me ( just for me) checking VIN´s online or with EPC is absolutely enough to confirm or decline E60 or Limited etc. Of course it´s not a bad idea to measure real 6 liters. Who knows what might happen to the engine. Blown, sold, other number rewelded masterfully etc.
PS I see we drifted away from Moscow´s car, maybe another Thread?
PS2 Car was just sold to someone in Moscow for 30.000 Euro ( 2 mln rub), have no other Info yet.
Good to know, but ( i´m very sorry) has nothing to do with the process happening in the late 80´s- early 90´s.
Everything was manual. Even computers used to develop and make 124036 were feeded manually. The only possibility for those codes ( any of them) to be registered by MB was the Purchase agreement. If a buyer didn´t mark 957- it was not on datacard, not in VIN etc. It was not MANUALLY put into the car or any other plates, stamps etc. So there is no way that a "new" post-production code would appear on any plate or MANUALLY filled into EPC....
That´s why for me ( just for me) checking VIN´s online or with EPC is absolutely enough to confirm or decline E60 or Limited etc. Of course it´s not a bad idea to measure real 6 liters. Who knows what might happen to the engine. Blown, sold, other number rewelded masterfully etc.
PS I see we drifted away from Moscow´s car, maybe another Thread?
PS2 Car was just sold to someone in Moscow for 30.000 Euro ( 2 mln rub), have no other Info yet.
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That's in brief quite spot on.
The advantages are also on hand, with this or while adding for example free text notes to the groups (which will appear in EPC too after some time) any deviation of the required parts can be documented which avoides frustration on the vehicle owners and workshop side while the right parts are picked from the beginning.
That system works since quite some years. So you can say roughly since computerization of the production lines onwards.
Data cards before that age are all available too, as paper documents.
Here we go.
Couldn´t help myself... looking for youtube soundtrack...such a trash, so i put A full Can-Can by Offenbach
Pics added.
Couldn´t help myself... looking for youtube soundtrack...such a trash, so i put A full Can-Can by Offenbach
Pics added.
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Have no contact with new owner. Hopefully soon.
Is the new owner.... you 036!?
No, i´d like to
And if- i will first buy then let you know
There is more proof here, as provided through EPC VIN records by our member "esodnehoh". He found 45 cars in the EPC data with codes 957+958.
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4144&page=2&p=43653#post43653
Great news (hopefuly).
Years later someone wrote me a letter and sent this Link, saying that this is that very car i´ve posted video in 2017.
Years later someone wrote me a letter and sent this Link, saying that this is that very car i´ve posted video in 2017.
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