Electric car impact on fuel availabilty and pricing in future(?)

[emerydc8]

At least AMG hasn't completely bought into the EV fantasy and hype.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

"I think there will be a future, yes," Schiemer said. "I think for the next ten years we will see the V-8s, for sure. We have a lot of customers who love their cars and I still think that we will see those people buying the [V-8] cars for a long time."

 

[gsxr]

If they would offer a normally-aspirated V12 that spun to 8000rpm, I bet pre-orders would sell out within minutes, regardless of what chassis it was offered in. At least they'll keep the turbo V8's around for a little while.

 

[ace10]

Mercedes Suspended V-8 Sales Over "Quality Issue," AMG Boss Says

When the company abruptly pulled its V-8 models off the menu, it mentioned compliance and supply chain issues. Now, the AMG Boss tells us it was a quality issue.

www.roadandtrack.com

Mercedes Suspended V-8 Sales Over "Quality Issue," AMG Boss Says​

 

[RicardoD]

So much for buying a used vehicle with one of these V8s, love to hear what this quality issue is. The AMG PR department needs to give this guy a phone call.

 

[emerydc8]

If they would offer a normally-aspirated V12 that spun to 8000rpm, I bet pre-orders would sell out within minutes, regardless of what chassis it was offered in. At least they'll keep the turbo V8's around for a little while.

Maybe you'll get your high-rev, normally-aspirated V12 after all, Dave. That's quite a disparity in news articles coming from Germany. Maybe the first article was damage control?

 

[mikeym]

Been away for few days but not sure if this was discussed. California passed the law banning all small engines especially for lawn equipment in two years. For those away from the state line, stock up on gasoline equipment...

 

[Kyiv]

Been away for few days but not sure if this was discussed. California passed the law banning all small engines especially for lawn equipment in two years. For those away from the state line, stock up on gasoline equipment...

That's info one gets from only skimming the clickbate headlines. But yes, in the not so distant future this will actually become true

 

[Glen]

I got rid of my gas mower, blower, and string trimmer years ago. Today's cordless OPE is so much better than old gas equipment. Just as powerful, if not more so, more convenient, and easier to maintain.

 

[Glen]

Side note, I drove my nephew's 2021 Model Y over the weekend. He has the dual motor, long range version. Really impressive vehicle!

 

[gsxr]

I got rid of my gas mower, blower, and string trimmer years ago. Today's cordless OPE is so much better than old gas equipment. Just as powerful, if not more so, more convenient, and easier to maintain.

For small lawns/property, I agree... the cordless stuff makes sense. The technology has improved quite a bit.

But for anyone who has acres to deal with, cordless might not cut it. (Disclaimer - we have 1 acre of lawn and a commercial zero-turn Walker mower.)

 

[gerryvz]

Yep - if you've got an acre (or more) of grass to cut, like I do, no battery-powered push mower is going to manage that task. Even if you wired 10 Milwaukee M18 batteries in series.

A riding mower is basically your only option.

 

[Kyiv]

I have something like 0.7 +/- of acre of grass to cut and basic self-propelled Walmart brand electric mower with 2 batteries is a 3 days-in-a-row affair. My front and backyard never look symmetrical

 

[Glen]

@gsxr and @gerryvz, where have you guys been? There are a number of battery electric riding mowers available. Here's a sample from Home Depot: Cub Cadet 30 in. 56-Volt MAX 30 Ah Battery Lithium-Ion Electric Drive Cordless Riding Lawn Tractor with Mulch Kit Included-CC30E - The Home Depot

Many other brands available too.

 

[ace10]

@gsxr and @gerryvz, where have you guys been? There are a number of battery electric riding mowers available. Here's a sample from Home Depot: Cub Cadet 30 in. 56-Volt MAX 30 Ah Battery Lithium-Ion Electric Drive Cordless Riding Lawn Tractor with Mulch Kit Included-CC30E - The Home Depot

Many other brands available too.

That is an adorable toy.

 

[Kyiv]

@gsxr and @gerryvz, where have you guys been? There are a number of battery electric riding mowers available. Here's a sample from Home Depot: Cub Cadet 30 in. 56-Volt MAX 30 Ah Battery Lithium-Ion Electric Drive Cordless Riding Lawn Tractor with Mulch Kit Included-CC30E - The Home Depot

Many other brands available too.

What's the useful lifespan of this $3k electric mower? When I lived in northern Virginia, even in a ritzy neighborhood of Great Falls, a Mexican and his wife cut about 0.5 acres for $45 at a time. At twice a month, $3k bought you 3 years of service.

 

[gsxr]

@gsxr and @gerryvz, where have you guys been? There are a number of battery electric riding mowers available.

For a medium-size lawn, those might work. For what we need, ace is correct. Ours has a 9.5-bushel (76-gallon) hopper and depending how tall the grass is, the hopper can get filled 5-10 times (50-100 bushels) over 2-3 hours of mowing. We're closer to what mfr's refer to as "farm & ranch" usage, than residential.

Here's a newer version of our old carbureted Walker:

 

[ace10]

Electric mowers are never going to work for some of us.

I added this beasty to the lineup last week. 29.5hp Kawasaki EFI. 2x5 gallon fuel tanks. No stopping.


For the yard, I'm using a Walker powered by 26.5hp Kohler EFI.


The rest of the property gets cut by an 88" flail mower on the back of a JD utility sized tractor.



Disclosure: I rely heavily on a 2x18v Makita string trimmer for Summer and Fall work. She's not up to the task of heavy spring growth, but electric is awesome for reduced sound and vibration.
Also have a 2x18v Makita chainsaw for very light work.

 

[ace10]

For a medium-size lawn, those might work. For what we need, ace is correct. Ours has a 9.5-bushel (76-gallon) hopper and depending how tall the grass is, the hopper can get filled 5-10 times (50-100 bushels) over 2-3 hours of mowing. We're closer to what mfr's refer to as "farm & ranch" usage, than residential.

Here's a newer version of our old carbureted Walker:

View attachment 139034

You running a 48" deck?

 

[Kyiv]

For a medium-size lawn, those might work. For what we need, ace is correct. Ours has a 9.5-bushel (76-gallon) hopper and depending how tall the grass is, the hopper can get filled 5-10 times (50-100 bushels) over 2-3 hours of mowing. We're closer to what mfr's refer to as "farm & ranch" usage, than residential.

Here's a newer version of our old carbureted Walker:

View attachment 139034

Dave, how much does your lawn mover cost when new and roughly what does it cost to run per year (Maintenance, gasoline, etc)? Alternatively, how much would it cost to hire someone in Boise to mow your territory?

*Not loaded questions, just curious

 

[JC220]

For small lawns/property, I agree... the cordless stuff makes sense. The technology has improved quite a bit.

But for anyone who has acres to deal with, cordless might not cut it. (Disclaimer - we have 1 acre of lawn and a commercial zero-turn Walker mower.)

Dave should just admit that he has an m119 powered lawnmower

 

[JC220]

Dave, how much does your lawn mover cost when new and roughly what does it cost to run per year (Maintenance, gasoline, etc)? Alternatively, how much would it cost to hire someone in Boise to mow your territory?

*Not loaded questions, just curious

 

[gsxr]

ace, I'm jealous of your EFI Walker! Ours is a 20+ year old MT20. It has a 42" deck which is great for navigating obstacles and odd-shaped lawn layout. I think a 48" deck would work ok too but we bought it used and left it as-is. Had a new engine when we got it and I think 1 new hydro. Compared to our previous Craftsman riding mower, it cut mowing time in half, or better. Not to mention the flip-up deck makes cleaning & sharpening a breeze.

 

[Kyiv]

View attachment 139036

Hey!! English is my 3rd language. Give me a break (did I spell that right?)!!

 

[gsxr]

Dave, how much does your lawn mover cost when new and roughly what does it cost to run per year (Maintenance, gasoline, etc)? Alternatively, how much would it cost to hire someone in Boise to mow your territory?

*Not loaded questions, just curious

New ones are mid-teens, depending on the model & attachments. Used, ours was ~1/4 of new when we got it in 2011. I haven't added up TCO but I'd estimate a few hundred $$$ annually in fuel & maintenance. I've never gotten a formal quote but I think it would be in the ballpark of $3k/yr to hire it out, possibly more.

As a bonus the Walker vacuums up & mulches leaves, so we don't have to rake either. Believe me, I'd prefer to hire it out but finances don't currently allow it. Since we're on that topic, we are interested in relocating somewhere without so much green stuff (lots of trees, including 5 enormous willows) as it takes way, way more of our time than we want to spend mowing/cutting/edging/blowing/burning.

Joe, don't tempt me with that M119-powered rig!

 

[ace10]

ace, I'm jealous of your EFI Walker! Ours is a 20+ year old MT20. It has a 42" deck which is great for navigating obstacles and odd-shaped lawn layout. I think a 48" deck would work ok too but we bought it used and left it as-is. Had a new engine when we got it and I think 1 new hydro. Compared to our previous Craftsman riding mower, it cut mowing time in half, or better. Not to mention the flip-up deck makes cleaning & sharpening a breeze.

View attachment 139037

42" deck would be amazing for manueverability. I went with 48" and sometimes I wish it was smaller, especially now with the big new Hustler mower.

Mine is the first year of EFI. Early 2013

Nobody uses Walker around here. It's all Exmark for the pros and JD or Kubota for the property DIYers.
I love that machine, though. It looks like sculpture when you're done. Added a power dump kit and deck adjuster as I learned how to best use the mower. Ran into a problem this past offseason... mangled one side of the hopper lid articulating hinge. Nailed a fence post. Dealer took two months this spring to repair. Parts were nowhere to be found.
Also have a recurring issue with the throttle cable, but it's nothing serious.

 

[Kyiv]

Yep - if you've got an acre (or more) of grass to cut, like I do, no battery-powered push mower is going to manage that task.

The US is, probably, the only country on our planet, where people who have a new G63 amg on order mown their own lawns

 

[gerryvz]

The US is, probably, the only country on our planet, where people who have a new G63 amg on order mown their own lawns

Who says I cut my own grass? Это работа для крестьян.

 

[mikeym]

That's info one gets from only skimming the clickbate headlines. But yes, in the not so distant future this will actually become true

what key details were in the body of the article that I missed by only skimming the headlines? caveat about technical feasibility or exemption of some categories such as off road vehicles?

they will have to pry 600 cfm backpack blower from my cold hands...

 

[Bogeyman]

Let's see, Ive got an Ego Blower, a Black & Decker hedge trimmer, Milwaukee Impacts & drill, Craftsman drill, d/a polisher, d/a mini polisher, Braun portable lights, a 12v emergency power pack, a rechargeable radio, etc. I'm sure I've forgotten some.

I've got OVER A DOZEN freakin chargers!!!! It drives me nuts.....

 

[TerryA]

Yep - if you've got an acre (or more) of grass to cut, like I do, no battery-powered push mower is going to manage that task. Even if you wired 10 Milwaukee M18 batteries in series.

A riding mower is basically your only option.

View attachment 139031

I got rid of all lawn equipment about 40 years ago. It’s my Gardner’s problem. I pay a him to mow my 800 Sq Ft front lawn and to blow off all of the concrete in the front and back yard. No grass in back yard just planters and a pool. He’s gone in 20 minutes.

 

[gsxr]

I got rid of all lawn equipment about 40 years ago. It’s my Gardner’s problem. I pay a him to mow my 800 Sq Ft front lawn and to blow off all of the concrete in the front and back yard. No grass in back yard just planters and a pool. He’s gone in 20 minutes.

It would take the crew 20 minutes just to unload all the equipment off the trailer, required for our place...

 

[ace10]

It would take the crew 20 minutes just to unload all the equipment off the trailer, required for our place...

One of my neighbors with a similar type of property as mine uses a lawn service. Just for the yard and entrance/lane areas. They're over there for two to three hours each week. Depending on the season. Always a three man crew.

For the rest of the property, he runs a massive diesel Kubota zero turn and a 15' batwing pulled by a Kubota dedicated just for mowing.

On the other side of me, there's a property that is fully tended by a landscape crew. Four guys, never less than half a day.

None of these properties are anything extraordinary for the area. Just nice houses on large lots in the country. Electric mowing ain't ever gonna happen.

 

[gerryvz]

Yep, my crew comes every Wednesday about noon o'clock. Three-man crew. They do my next door neighbor and across the street at the same time.

Which reminds me, I need to go outside and pick up the dog poop before they get here......

 

[ace10]

Yep, my crew comes every Wednesday about noon o'clock. Three-man crew. They do my next door neighbor and across the street at the same time.

Which reminds me, I need to go outside and pick up the dog poop before they get here......

And that's one of the challenges with using a service... you're on their schedule.
Dogs complicate things greatly. Keeping everything scooped. And making sure the gates are closed. Etc.
As does work from home. Unless your work area is in a bunker or the basement. And the dogs don't go crazy with a crew in the yard.

 

[alabbasi]

My yard guy quit about 4 years ago after he had me to front load a bunch of payments so that he could send his wife home to visit family so I bought a mower, strimmer etc and now do my own. It takes me about 4x as long and I don't do it as often.

The shop has 1.5 acres so I roll around in this. It takes about 25 minutes in 6th gear going full rabbit

 

[DerFuror]

The EV concept is fine, especially for congested population centers. But it's time is not here yet or for a while. EVs will be taken seriously only when EV ranges equal or surpass & EV price is competitive with combustion-engined vehicles.

More food for thought articles regarding hidden/often non-mentioned EV costs from USA Today & Autoblog

 

[dionphaneuf]

That study was idiotic and made such egregious assumptions. 'A Level 1 charger can cost $600 to install'. What? An L1 charger is a NEMA 5-15, the plug in every home. An L2 charger maybe costs $600, but even that's unlikely.

Other outlets had a more sensible analysis of that report. It sounds like the AEG author had a bit of an axe to grind. $15 per 100 miles for an EV is absurdly high, even on 'commercial' chargers - those rates are usorious and way higher than Tesla Superchargers.

Realistically, most EVs will get 3.5-4.5 miles per kWh. For 100 miles, that's still less than 30 kWh, so you'd need to be at $0.50/kWh (!!!!) to hit those numbers. $3 per 100 miles is easily attainable by most.

 

[gerryvz]

There are two camps here -- maybe three. I put myself in the 2-minus or 3-plus category, personally.

1. Folks who are full-on "EVs are taking over the world, and sooner than you think". Mostly people who live on the coasts, particularly West Coast. Either own an EV, or are months/a few years away from going whole hog. Will hang onto their "legacy" gas car as a quaint reminder of how things used to be back in the horse-and-buggy days.
2. Folks who are "meh" and not convinced about the whole EV thing. Sure EVs are coming, but there is not that much interest in them, they are going to take a VERY long time to take over, and are not particularly perfected for all use cases. And are being over-hyped/over-sold. May buy one down the road once the technology gets even more refined, infrastructure exists to support them, and costs continue to come down.
3. Folks who are very skeptical and feel that the whole EV thing is a government-forced bill of goods. Gas vehicles are not going anywhere for the next 20-30+ years. May never buy an EV in their lifetime.

 

[ace10]

Fourth group... those who have BTDT, got the t-shirt and aren't impressed.

 

[kwontumspeed]

Fourth group... those who have BTDT, got the t-shirt and aren't impressed.

+1 on the 4th group. Had a Tesla 3, got priority on waiting list pulling some strings with our tier 1 supplier status. Sold it. Bought a V8 Land Cruiser. Life is good now.

 

[JC220]

Im in camp 2/3 🏕 Not convinced yet but maybe in a number of years would daily an electric car if it is actualy cheaper to run. That would be the only reason for me to change. And I'll still have 70 odd litres of internal combustion engines to use infrequently.

The fact that Cali appears to be targeting small garden equipment sounds pretty daft. Seriously how much could they emit FFS? Even my 6 or 8 year old leaf blower has a catalytic converter on it.

I do have one battery powered Strimmer and whilst more convenient than the petrol version it requires you to plan ahead and have it charged before cutting grass and can run out when almost done. Probably need extra batteries to make it more user friendly in that regard. And it will only last so long then in bin.... I tend to buy only new Stihl petrol garden equipment, look after it and it will last 20 - 30 years.

 

[gerryvz]

This one's for @ace10:

And a bonus track, for Thanksgiving amusement:

 

[sheward]

I've stayed away from this interesting thread due to my poor PC filter. I will pass this one personal opinion. We as a nation will not see anywhere near the conversion to electric that proponents are pushing, unless we lose huge numbers of human beings in a very short time.

Now, I cannot resist posting up a picture of one of the best mowers ever produced. The OLD Toro wheel Horse series. The ones before Toro made them into garbage. The larger 520 hydro is powered by a 20+HP twin opposed Onan engine. Most parts are still available thru the Toro network. If I continue to keep it greased I'll likely never need any.

 

[TerryA]

I've stayed away from this interesting thread due to my poor PC filter. I will pass this one personal opinion. We as a nation will not see anywhere near the conversion to electric that proponents are pushing, unless we lose huge numbers of human beings in a very short time.

Now, I cannot resist posting up a picture of one of the best mowers ever produced. The OLD Toro wheel Horse series. The ones before Toro made them into garbage. The larger 520 hydro is powered by a 20+HP twin opposed Onan engine. Most parts are still available thru the Toro network. If I continue to keep it greased I'll likely never need any.

Like I said in another thread “I have 800 SqFt of grass and a gardener and he gets paid vacation time. My stop is on Thursday. Soooo today he is in Mexico on vacation

 

[nocfn]

gotta like those deep dish staggared wheels. What is the offset - spacers?

 

[Jlaa]

Sooooo many Teslas -- TWENTY ONE - in my HALF MILE DRIVE to school. Plus two fuel cell cars and one AV. But crimony, Teslas are about as "special" as Corollas here.

 

[JC220]

I did already state it was only a matter of time until UK Gov and others start to Tax EVs. (Aka annual road tax we pay here on all cars)

It is happening already

MPs say new tax needed as electric car numbers rise

A cross-party group of MPs has told the government to act now to avoid a £35 billion "fiscal black hole" as the uptake of electric cars reduces tax revenue.

uk.motor1.com

 

[dionphaneuf]

@Jlaa Do you mean #rareboi Corollas are about as special as Teslas?

 

[Jlaa]

@Jlaa Do you mean #rareboi Corollas are about as special as Teslas?

View attachment 143189

Wow. My unofficial impression of 2021 SF Bay Area Sales:

1. Toyota Camry
2. Blue Tesla Model Y
3. White Tesla Model 3
4. White Tesla Model Y
5. Blue Tesla Model 3
6. All other colors Tesla Model Whatever
7. Whatever car is cheapest to use as a lyft/uber driver

 

[TerryA]

Sooooo many Teslas -- TWENTY ONE - in my HALF MILE DRIVE to school. Plus two fuel cell cars and one AV. But crimony, Teslas are about as "special" as Corollas here.

View attachment 143188

@Jlaa, I have that many parked in my neighborhood
@JC220, I’m sure California will be the first to charge some kind of tax on EVs. It seems in SoCal every other car is a Tesla or some kind of EV.

Also, Elon Musk has to sell more Teslas to make up fo the 40 satellites that crashed and burned yesterday.