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Electric car impact on fuel availabilty and pricing in future(?)

After 2 Prii that were ugly as sin, slow as turds, but ultra thrifty and reliable, I swore them off.
But, given inflation (and hidden costs like the average insurance bill of a Tesla is $4,000), I could get another Prius daily beater car .......

Seriously? $4000 (full coverage, per year?) for Tesla insurance, with a clean record?

I assume that's in PRK, but still, NOPE.

:oh__dont_go_there_g
 
Seriously? $4000 (full coverage, per year?) for Tesla insurance, with a clean record?

I assume that's in PRK, but still, NOPE.

:oh__dont_go_there_g
No, not for only California. How Much Does Tesla Insurance Cost? Rates by Model . Can you imagine raising a teenager and then insuring that teenager to drive a Tesla? No thank you.
Maybe the Bz4X would be similar to insure .... but it has BUTTONS on the dashboard and it has a gauge IN FRONT of the driver!! 👏

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Has anyone bothered to tell the Biden administration about the actual owning and running costs of cars like this? Because they like to tout the efficiency, but they never bother to address the actual real-world costs of owning and maintaining these cars.
 
I saw my first Toyota BZ4X yesterday. The sticker was just under 52K for a dual-motor Limited model. If Toyota dealers manage to not mark this up, this will sell like hotcakes. For reference, My sibling just bought a Tesla Model Y for 72K..... and prices have gone up since my sibling placed the order.

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Looky there ... the wheels are still attached. :crikey:
 
No, not for only California. How Much Does Tesla Insurance Cost? Rates by Model . Can you imagine raising a teenager and then insuring that teenager to drive a Tesla? No thank you.
Maybe the Bz4X would be similar to insure .... but it has BUTTONS on the dashboard and it has a gauge IN FRONT of the driver!! 👏

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The wife's Audi etron GT is $1700/year, including $200 for a scam called "Replacement cost plus" which is basically another line item to protect you from getting porked in the event of a total loss.
 
The wife's Audi etron GT is $1700/year, including $200 for a scam called "Replacement cost plus" which is basically another line item to protect you from getting porked in the event of a total loss.
Do you have kids on that policy?
 
Buick's in deep doo doo. And the "electric revolution" probably won't save them

They have nothing to offer, aside from generic small and mid sized bubble suv's.

They did away with the only unique model a couple years ago. I think somebody near me has one, because I see it and then think... damn that's unusual! And not in a bad way.

proxy.php
 
Buick's designs are KILLING it in their primary market - China.
Buick is not really a brand for the American market anymore. All of its growth and profit and focus are in China.

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The story says there's no margins on these China deals. And you can't competitively sell overseas-made EVs in the US going forward.
Maybe they go to a licensing deal or something.

Their sales per dealer in the US is simply horrific.
 
Has anyone bothered to tell the Biden administration about the actual owning and running costs of cars like this? Because they like to tout the efficiency, but they never bother to address the actual real-world costs of owning and maintaining these cars.
I'm guessing there is much lobbying going back and forth. Tax payer money kicking back to EV manufactures and them kicking back to the politicians that put their thumb on the scale
 
This will also sell like hotcakes. Less than USD$30K, about 200hp, and 57 MPG?
After 2 Prii that were ugly as sin, slow as turds, but ultra thrifty and reliable, I swore them off.
But, given inflation (and hidden costs like the average insurance bill of a Tesla is $4,000), I could get another Prius daily beater car ....... for HALF the price of high school tuition!

@duuder looks like our daily beater has just arrived. 🤣



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This prius is pretty attractive. I bought my 2008 w/ 82kmi for about 6k (which was on the high end had leather and a sound system) and is still running pretty well after 7 years and 152kmi.

I remember a forum member saying you wouldn't get any dates w/ one but if that's the kind of people you're attracting, ewe... more often than not, I end up switching cars as I don't like to leave my nice ones on the street (nyc) and drop off my dates in the prius.

I have this big fear of mucking up (have done in past) about losing everything and being homeless so I keep my prius around b/c i can actually sleep in it of it all goes kuputs
 
I'm skeptical that the bZ4x (Bee-zee-forks?) will do well. It's ugly, the range sucks, and it can't charge quickly at all, to say nothing of reviews that have been tepid at best. Toyota claims it can charge to 80% in an hour...if you get the FWD model that is 150kW capable. The AWD model is only capable of 100kW, for reasons that aren't clear. Hyundai does this in 15 mins, Tesla about 20. To make matters worse the effective highway range is about 160mi. Even with chargers perfectly placed, you'd be stopping every 2.5 hours for an hour. What a horrid experience. A Tesla or Hyundai can do 250 mi effective on Hwy (75 mph, AC/heat, etc) and charge in 15 mins. This is a product of Toyota's idiotic fence sitting on Hydrogen/hybrids when everyone else realized that EVs were going to be the dominant technology 5 years ago. And they still aren't convinced. Meanwhile, Tesla makes 8x (!) the per car profit of supposed mfg behemoth Toyota.


So in summary, Toyota doesn't make as much per car on the cars that are supposedly more profitable (ICE), they've only just started getting into EVs, and their current EVs suck. Honda, Mazda, Subaru, and Stellantis are way behind as well. I remember when I worked in finance ten plus years ago, a trader friend put on a long Netflix short Blockbuster pairs trade and just kept doubling down on it. This feels like the same thing all over again.
 
Don't know if this was posted already or not, future looks bright... This stupid trend need to stop ASAP!!! I don't know who is supporting this. I mean come one, someone already paid big money for this junk...

Yeah, they are doing aggressive marketing in all over the places, in E-sports games, movies like the upcoming Avatar 2 to sell their EV to save the planet somehow. Mercedes sponsors everyone and in anything. Sounds very desperate compare to Bentley or Rolls Royce.
 
Don't know if this was posted already or not, future looks bright... This stupid trend need to stop ASAP!!! I don't know who is supporting this. I mean come one, someone already paid big money for this junk...

I wonder if Vediamo could be used to bypass the subscription requirement.

:scratchchin:
 
In my view, this is every reason NOT to buy anything from Mercedes-Benz in the future as far as new vehicles are concerned.
So when every 124 spare part is NLA and you don't want to buy/lease new (or, newer)... what next? Dodge has killed off the Hellcat with plans for EV replacements.

:runexe:
 
I picked up an '04 LR Discovery a couple weeks ago for another winter beater. They're practically free compared to Toyotas these days. Maybe 1/3 the cost. And if you look hard enough you can find owners who have taken very good care of them.

But here's the real pleasant surprise(s): I can find no fewer than FOUR well-respected Independent service shops that specialize exclusively in the brand within half an hour of me. For parts, there are multiple US independent suppliers. And parts availability from the mothership is mind-bogglingly complete. I'm placing a couple of orders today from the UK and nearly every little item is in stock. Exterior trim.. tiny bits & large pieces, fasteners, driveline parts. Only a few things are either not in stock or NLA.
But then there are plenty of breakers in the US for everything that falls through the cracks. There's a guy in Southern VA who is sending me the entire rear interior from a five seater so I can convert my 7 seater. A stack of clean 16" wheels, as well.

I'm fully-expecting this honeymoon to end abruptly when the first serious turd hits the fan, but I feel confident that I can EASILY and somewhat-reasonably pay my way out of it. Unlike Mercedes. Where parts are unobtanium and service around here barely exists. I cannot imagine what it'd be like trying to keep a W163 on the road these days.

JLR may have just fired their CEO. And the company is definitely a mess. Including not having meaningful electrification plans. But they sure do have parts availability. LOL
 
JLR may have just fired their CEO. And the company is definitely a mess. Including not having meaningful electrification plans. But they sure do have parts availability. LOL
Unless the new CEO decides to go all MB with parts availability. "Hey, why are we carrying all this moldy smelly inventory for stuff sold at the turn of the century?"

:duck:
 
Unless the new CEO decides to go all MB with parts availability. "Hey, why are we carrying all this moldy smelly inventory for stuff sold at the turn of the century
Entirely possible.
Seems to be where we're heading, in general. (With the exception of Toyota, with their initiative to re-manufacture parts which are desperately needed to keep their older "classics" going.)

Maybe I need to start hoarding NOS Land Rover parts. LOlllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
 
So when every 124 spare part is NLA and you don't want to buy/lease new (or, newer)... what next? Dodge has killed off the Hellcat with plans for EV replacements.
How about KIA’s new 576HP EV-6? 3.5 seconds to 60 mph. Looks pretty good to.
 
Sometimes you get a bad batch of gasoline.

Most mechanics would know how to fix it. Likely not too much time or money involved.

But then there's this:

Which is a whole 'nother level of pain for the vehicle operator.
 
I wonder if theres going to be as much pressure if the administration changes in 2024.
If this is all true, it's implications should be obvious to every politician in the U.S.

About 6 months ago, there was a news program on oil, and one of The Forbes Bros. was the guest. The host said to Forbes, "I am going to ask you a direct question and I would like a direct answer; how much oil does the U.S. have in the ground, under our feet?”

Forbes did not miss a beat, he said, "More than all the Middle East put together."

The U.S. Geological Service issued a report in April 2008 that only Scientists and oil men knew was coming, but, man, was it big. It was a revised report (hadn't been updated since 1995) on how much oil was in this area of the western 2/3 of North Dakota, western South Dakota, and Extreme eastern Montana.

Check THIS out:


The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska's Prudhoe Bay and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil.

The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion barrels. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable (5 Billion barrels), at $107 a barrel, we're looking at a resource base worth more than $5.3 trillion.

"When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see their jaws hit the floor.

They had no idea." says Terry Johnson, the Montana Legislature's financial analyzer.

"This sizable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found in the past 56 years," reports The Pittsburgh Post Gazette.

It's a formation known as the Williston Basin but is more commonly referred to as the 'Bakken.' It stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and into Canada.

For years, U.S. Oil exploration has been considered a dead end.

Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching for major oil wells decades ago.

However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up the Bakken's Massive reserves, And, we now have access of up to 500 billion barrels.

And because this is Light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL!!!!!

That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 2041 years Straight. And if THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then this next one should - Because it's from 2006 !!!!!!

U.S. Oil Discovery - Largest Reserve in the World Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006.

Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the Largest untapped oil reserve in the world.

It is more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush Mandated its extraction.

In many recent years of high oil prices none has been extracted. With this mother lode of oil why are we still fighting over off-shore Drilling?

They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on Earth.

Here are the official estimates:

8 times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
18 times as much oil as Iraq
21 times as much oil as Kuwait
22 times as much oil as Iran
500 times as much oil as Yemen

And it's all right here in the Western United States !


HOW can this BE? HOW can we NOT BE extracting this?

Because the Environmentalists and others have blocked all efforts to help America become Independent of foreign oil! Again, we are letting a small group of people dictate our lives and our economy. WHY?

James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says we've got more oil in this very compact area than the entire Middle East, more than 2 TRILLION barrels Untapped. That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the world today, reports The Denver Post.

Don't think 'OPEC' will drop its price even with this find? Think again! It's all about the competitive marketplace, it has to. Think OPEC just might be funding the environmentalists?

This can be verified. Check it out at the link below.

USGS National and Global Oil and Gas Assessment Project - Williston Basin, Bakken and Three Forks Formations Continuous Assessment Unit Boundaries and Assessment Input Data Forms | U.S. Geological Survey


By Communications and Publishing December 15, 2021

The USGS has completed an oil and gas estimate for the Bakken and Three Forks Formations in the Williston Basin of Montana and North Dakota.

The new assessments of the Williston Bason can be accessed here and associated data releases can be found here. To find out more about USGS energy assessments and other energy research, please visit the USGS Energy Resources Program website and follow us on Twitter.

Sources/Usage: Public Domain.
Map of the assessment units for the Bakken Formation of the Williston Basin of Montana and North Dakota.


USGS National and Global Oil and Gas Assessment Project - Williston Basin, Bakken and Three Forks Formations Continuous Assessment Unit Boundaries and Assessment Input Data Forms | U.S. Geological Survey

Sources/Usage: Public Domain.
A map of the 2021 assessment units for the Three Forks Formation of the Williston Basin of Montana and North
 
Looks like the Swiss might ban EVs in cold weather...


Switzerland Considers EV Driving Ban And Limits During A Blackout​

As Europe faces a cold winter and a continuing conflict in Ukraine, Switzerland is planning for the possible impacts the Russian invasion could have on its power supply. The nation has proposed limiting the use of EVs if electricity becomes scarce.
Germany’s Der Spiegel reports that a draft regulation on restrictions in the event of a blackout might seek to limit the use of electric vehicles. That is, however, just one of the recommendations, to be implemented if the nation’s power supply shortage escalates to its third level of severity.
“The private use of electric cars is only permitted for absolutely necessary journeys (e.g. professional practice, shopping, visiting the doctor, attending religious events, attending court appointments)” in the event of a “level 3” power shortage, the draft reads, as translated by Google.
Before the power emergency reaches that level, though, other measures would already be put in place. Private households, for instance, would be asked to limit the temperature of the water in their washing machines to 40° C (104° F), leaf blowers, patio heaters, seat heaters in chairlifts, and other luxuries would be banned, and video streaming platforms would be told to show videos in standard definition only.
The measures are still only in the draft stage. If an actual power shortage were to occur, the measures would be readjusted and only then would the ordinance come into effect. It remains a meaningful move, though, as it could make Switzerland the first country to impose driving restrictions on electric vehicles.
The majority of Switzerland’s energy comes from hydropower, but it does also import electricity from France and Germany. The alpine nation is far from the only European country taking a look at ways to reduce energy use, at the moment.
Germany, for example, has already ruled that private pools are no longer allowed to be heated with gas or electricity. Office buildings, meanwhile, are being asked to only heat themselves to 19° C (66° F). The price of electricity in Germany is such that the head of VW recently argued that the whole continent is becoming a less attractive place to make batteries and that it could lose some of its industrial appeal to countries in North America, Asia, and North Africa.
 
Makes me think of how "Peak Oil" was a thing for a while. There simply is no such thing as Peak Oil. Way too many variables to confidently state when this supposed Peak was going to happen or had already happened. But I'm sure some folks made a killing out of this bullshit along the way...
 
Good piece on Solar farms.
Solar on your home rooftop, I understand - although the numbers don't always work out, depending on your % of sun and local utility rates.

Solar "farms" simply cannot be viable without an order of magnitude (or more) increase in output. It boggles the mind that these exist outside of desert or otherwise unusable locations. With increased output, it starts to make more sense (assuming the cost isn't nuts), but there's still the storage issues... battery capacity also needs to improve. The technology isn't there, yet.

:yayo:
 
Solar on your home rooftop, I understand - although the numbers dont always work out, depending on your % of sun and local utility rates.

My county just approved an 835 acre "farm" on the Dulles airport property. Established forest and wetland habitat will be scraped clean.

 
About 6 months ago, there was a news program on oil, and one of The Forbes Bros. was the guest. The host said to Forbes, I am going to ask you a direct question and I would like a direct answer; how much oil does the U.S. have in the ground, under our feet?”

Forbes did not miss a beat, he said, More than all the Middle East put together.
This is why we call this the land of opportunity. Even though my family has long since left the middle east, I can still become a sheik! Time to get some polish on the old Cadillac.

1670453391418.png

Jokes aside, where the pendulum swings to one side, it will swing equally as hard towards the other. The marketing promises are starting to wear thin. Politicians are more interested in getting reelected than anything else so it would be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
We've been lied to, by... the MEDIA! No way! :facepalm:

No mention in this article (unless I missed it) about the inability for current infrastructure to handle the massive increase in EV's scheduled over the next decade or two. Or the impracticality of EV's in extreme cold weather, or on long trips in rural areas, etc etc... that isn't "hysteria", it's waiting for technology to catch up to the fantasy.

:watchdrama:


You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

Science has repeatedly shown EVs are better for humans, despite the meme you just retweeted.

I've heard all the supposed arguments. It seems every time anything even tangentially related to electric cars is published, certain people feel compelled to share their own research. You've probably heard it all, too: A Prius is worse for the planet than a Hummer. EVs are coal-powered cars. Electric cars produce more CO2 than internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles. Lithium mining is uniquely bad for the environment. Cobalt mining relies largely on slave labor, if not child slave labor. Actually, that last part is sadly true. But the rest? Lies. And I'm not even going to get into the hypocrisy of posting anti-EV rhetoric from a lithium-ion-battery-powered phone or laptop.
The first thing we should talk about is direct versus indirect emissions. Gas-powered vehicles have both direct and indirect emissions, while electric cars—I'm specifically talking about battery-powered vehicles, or BEVs, but we will just call them EVs—only have indirect emissions. How so? Both types of cars/trucks/SUVs are manufactured, and the process of building cars involves a global manufacturing effort that uses energy from all sorts of sources. This includes everything from the diesel fuel used to mine and transport metal to the electricity used to manufacture tires. A big knock on EVs is that because most battery production is centered in China, itself a notorious coal-burning country, battery-powered cars begin their service lives with more indirect emissions to their credit.
The above is true. If you take an ICE vehicle and an EV and lock them in a room, by the time the world ends the undriven electric car will have already resulted in more bad stuff than the undriven gas-powered car. But here's the crazy part: Cars are driven. Wild, I know, but it's true. The more EVs get driven, the cleaner they get. This last part would be especially true if the energy used to power EVs is itself CO2-free. But even if it's not, EVs still lead to less emissions over time than cars that burn gasoline.

How Long Does That Take?

Not so long, it turns out. The New York Times published an article called "E.V.s Start With a Bigger Carbon Footprint. But That Doesn't Last." To quote the Gray Lady, "the pollution equation evens out between 1.4 to 1.5 years for sedans, 1.6 to 1.9 years for SUVs and about 1.6 years for pickup trucks, based on the average number of vehicle miles traveled in the United States." So even if you sign just a two-year lease, by the time you turn in your EV, it has released less CO2 than the equivalent ICE vehicle.

But That's Just, Like, Your Opinion, Man

No, it's not. The Yale School of the Environment conducted a study published by Nature Communications that explains how even with indirect emissions due to battery production, EVs release fewer greenhouse gases over the course of their service lives than ICE vehicles. As one author, Stephanie Webber, said, "The supply chain for combustion vehicles is just so dirty that electric vehicles can't surpass them, even when you factor in indirect emissions." This is a comprehensive study you should read for yourself, but please allow me to single out one thing:
Taken together, indirect emissions accounted for [approximately] 26% of the 1.5 Gt CO2 caused by the US LDV fleet in 2020. "
Yes, light-duty vehicles in America release 1.5 gigatons of CO2 per year! As terrible as it is to burn coal to produce batteries, nearly three quarters (about 74 percent) of these CO2 emissions come after the vehicle is built. In other words, about three quarters of all light-vehicle emissions come from the fuel that powers them. Remember, the 26 percent figure is all the indirect emissions for all vehicles—mining the iron, producing the plastics, stitching the fabrics, etc.—not just those from EV batteries, which are but a portion of it.
It's a bit of a red herring to only focus on the CO2 released by burning coal to make batteries while ignoring the CO2 released by all the other parts of the manufacturing process. I find it particularly grating when people willfully ignore the CO2 released by drilling, transporting, refining, and yes, even pumping oil/gasoline. Sure, more EVs will mean more batteries, but unlike gasoline, which always has to be burned, battery production can become (and is becoming) greener. Another way to look at it is the energy required to produce an average EV's battery is equivalent to about 74 gallons of gas.

But What If You Burn Coal to Power EVs?

This is the crazy part. Even if you only ever burned coal to create the electricity to power EVs, that's still less CO2 than is released by burning gasoline. How is this possible? Simple: efficiency. I beg you to check out this article by Karin Kirk about the efficiency differences between ICE and EV propulsion. In simple terms (and the simpler the better for me), she explains how ICE vehicles only send between 16 to 25 percent of the energy created from burning gasoline to the wheels. The other 75 to 84 percent is lost due to inherent inefficiencies. Most of the loss is heat and noise, although about 10 percent is sacrificed to stuff like drivetrain losses, essentially the difference between crank horsepower and wheel horsepower. I should point out that diesels are more efficient (30 to 40 percent of the energy created goes toward forward propulsion), but they spew noxious particulates with serious health consequences and still aren't particularly efficient compared to EVs.
Electric vehicles (eventually) send 87 to 91 percent of the energy in the battery to the wheels. I say "eventually" because 22 percent of that energy needs to be "recaptured" through regenerative braking. Put another way, 31 to 35 percent of the energy stored in the battery is lost for various reasons, but 22 percent can be regenerated by the "brakes." Kirk goes on to say, "Replacing gasoline-powered cars with EVs saves energy, regardless of the energy source used to recharge EVs." Please take note of the word "regardless," as that's how "coal-powered cars" are in fact cleaner than gas-powered cars. Efficiency: EVs have it, ICE cars don't.
To summarize, replacing gasoline with coal (which, for the record, is an abysmal idea) would reduce energy usage by 31 percent. Another way to think about it: Right now, Americans use about 9 million barrels of oil a day for our automotive transportation needs. Magically switching to EVs charged via burning coal would result in only needing the equivalent of about 6 million barrels. That's a big reduction. Replacing gasoline with EVs charged via natural gas would use 48 percent less energy. Green energy (hydro, solar, wind, etc.) instead of gasoline would reduce the amount of energy needed by nearly 75 percent, or 6.7 million barrels of gasoline equivalent, as only 2.3 million barrels equivalent would be needed. That's massive.

What Powers the Power Grid?

In 2021 the U.S. power grid's makeup was 38 percent natural gas, 22 percent coal, 20 percent renewables, 19 percent nuclear, and 1 percent other (like petroleum). This means that if all cars in the U.S. were suddenly powered by electricity, at most only 22 percent of them would be fully coal-powered. If you lump nuclear in with renewables because atomic energy produces no CO2 emissions, 39 percent of the grid is emission free. However, coal use is declining. As recently as 2008 America burned more than 1 billion short tons per year. In 2021 it was 501 million short tons. You should also know the percentage of renewable energy is expected to grow. Projections say 22 percent of power in 2022 will be from green sources, 2023 will see the figure grow to 24 percent, and the percentage will continue to increase.

Why Are You Being Lied To?

A massive question beyond the scope of this rant, but one way to explain it is by what my former colleague Jamie Kitman calls The Scientific Uncertainty Principle. It works like this: Scientists at research institutions discover smoking causes lung cancer. Tobacco companies counter by hiring their own scientists who say the opposite. In the car world, this began with leaded gasoline. Harvard, for instance, said it was a terrible poison. GM and Standard Oil disagreed. Millions of people died with millions more poisoned. Often there's a profit motive behind the lies, yet sometimes the disinformation comes from culture wars. Sadly, we live in the age of alternative facts; in my view, it's the latter at play here. I admittedly spend too much time reading comments on stories about this subject, but I find the massive volume of anti-EV hysteria alarming. Then I remember something my father always told me: Truth is a defense.
________________________________________

:grouphug:
 
Electric-powered vehicles do not operate well in the harsh conditions of the ocean, or over desolate mountain passes in the Rockies. I can't wait to see ocean-going cargo ships, cross-country semi tractor-trailers, and freight locomotives that pull mile-plus-long heavy trains for hundreds of miles between fuel stops, and thousands of miles between ports, operating on electricity.

Not going to happen in the next 30 years. If ever.
 
the second these electric trucks/ships/cars cross some cold weather, you get at least a 50% reduction in capacity and when you tow and add freezing cold weather - poof, gone
 
I feel like Im being lied to right now. My daily driver is 17 years old and I regularly drive cars built in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. Id be interested in how long these cars will last once the battery sh*ts the bed.
How long they last? Why would that matter? When the battery fails, and is cost-prohibitive to replace, you just buy a new EV. Right?

:spend:
 
I get a lot of slack for driving a prius but it's been an easy car to work on and I'm barely mechanically inclined.

Hybrids give you the best of both worlds, thr new C ahem 63 is pushing out some crazy hp numbers.

At least in the prius, the hybrid battery replacement is diy now w/ rudimentary tools and cost about a G
 
I’m a big fan of hybrids as well from a cost / return perspective for a daily driver snoozemobile. USD$29K-$35K and 40+MPG in a 4 door midsized AWD CUV with limitless range — the cheapskate’s approach!

FWIW I found this rant on reddit. I was surprised that this sentiment is being expressed here, in the SF Bay Area, which is EV capital of the USA:


1E03DFFE-CE63-4370-88A5-D4C0B42AE6A6.jpeg C7EAB98C-0969-426D-A7C7-B7F7B48BDC3D.jpeg
 
I think that I could easily debate the cost/return argument when it comes to electric. A few times in my lifetime, I was able to buy a car for hundreds, spend a weekend making it road worthy, drive it for a while and sell for sometimes more than I had in it.

They weren't the usual flops, but it worked out. I struggle to see if cheap way to fix a cheap electric given the replacement cost of batteries.
 
EV cars, the more I found about them the more I turn unconvinced to get one. This video says about Tesla build quality vs an old Porsche.
I can understand however that it needs to be light to attain that range with one load. But imagine if this Tesla had a combustion engine, it will rattle and fall apart.

So why all the hurry to get EV cars if the battery technology itself needs to be optimized and developed further like Einstein or Nikola Tesla himself would invent if they were alive today without greed in the picture? So the conversion itself is meaningless and takes a lot of unnecessary resources to push people to EV. I do not believe that by 2030 whole nations in the world would already have EV when the economy is already broken today.
 
No, not for only California. How Much Does Tesla Insurance Cost? Rates by Model . Can you imagine raising a teenager and then insuring that teenager to drive a Tesla? No thank you.
Maybe the Bz4X would be similar to insure .... but it has BUTTONS on the dashboard and it has a gauge IN FRONT of the driver!! 👏

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Holy jesus that's insane. So you buy a Tesla and you're on the hook for another $15k-$20k for insurance over the next five years. No thanks.
 
Yeah. Through about the 80's, Mercedes still built million-mile cars, and provided spare part support for decades to keep them on the road. After the 80's / early 90's, things started to change.

Today they are very likely building cars to last through warranty only. Out of warranty? Like honey badger, MB just don't care. Trade in a buy a new one.

Sad.

:oldman:
 
If the entities, companies, and organizations promoting "green" or sustainable products really had that as their goal they would first go back to producing quality products made to last or create legislation to do so. This is the low hanging fruit. Consider the waste of energy in production, re-tooling, raw materials, transportation, disposal, etc. in replacing throwaway products. It boggles the mind.

But this thinking doesn't maximize profit, which is all they really care about so they go on wasting resources we don't have pretending some new technology will save us. Nothing but marketing.
 
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