Engine Stand

[IslandMon]

Hello everyone,

Unfortunately I am losing my reverse gear and will soon be attempting to pull the motor on my 500E.

Does anyone have any recommendations with engine stands for the m119? Will any commonly available stands from northern tool work?
What is the bolt size that holds the tranny to the motor?

As for a hoist, I am planning on buying a standard 2 ton boom hoist with a load leveler.
Any suggestions or insight is greatly appreciated.

I am a young owner who is on a mission to rebuild an amazing car.

 

[Jim]

I have seen pictures either here or on 500ecstasy showing a 1 ton hoist. 2 ton might be too much but would at least be less "flimsy" when working with a load.

Jim.

 

[Glen]

If you have a Harbor Freight near you, I can recommend their 2-ton, folding engine hoist:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=35915

And 1-ton, folding engine stand:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=67015

I have both and they work well. The stand is very stable. I haven't bolted an M119 to it yet but it holds an M103 with ease. I also like the fact that both fold up when not in use to save floor space.

If you decide to buy from Harbor Freight, be sure to pick up a current Automobile or Motor Trend magazine because they have a 20% off coupon for any single item...you'll need two coupons and have to make two trips to HF but it's worth it.

 

[gsxr]

I have the HF folding shop crane that Glen mentions, and it does work ok. I have the 1-ton engine stand (non-folding) and this also easily holds an M119, which weighs less than 500 lbs without accessories (no AC compressor, starter, etc). What is difficult is getting the shop crane into position to lower the engine down onto the stand... the "V" shaped legs of each do not mesh nicely with each other, making it a PITA to transfer the engine to the stand. It's doable though.

I forget the exact size & length bolts required, but I'll see if I can check on that. IIRC they are a common M10. You'll need some washer & nuts as well, and it will attach to the lower oil pan holes, which means you can't remove the oil pan.

I have been lusting after the professional engine stand as seen at this link (also shown below), but I have never been able to find out what the brand name or model number is. I assume it costs many hundreds of dollars - or worse - but it also doesn't have some of the drawbacks of the HF stand (for one, there's enough room on the pro stand to access the flywheel bolts - can't do that on the HF stand).

UPDATE - 2014: The stand shown below is a Werner-Weitner, model WW-MG600V. Pricing info below is from March 2012, courtesy of the North American distributor. Also required is mount kit MB WW-6/140MBK, which is an additional $900 USD on top of the cost of the stand.

WW-MG600V $1856.25 (Available in stock)​

600 kg cap. Engine & Transmission Repair stand​

​

WW-MG500 $1350.00 (Special Order)​

500 kg cap. Engine & Transmission Repair stand​

​

Freight is extra [from Canada to your location in USA].​

​

UPDATE - 2022: Lowest price I could find in North America was ~$2200 USD for the stand, plus $1250 USD freight from Montreal. The mount kit price remained similar to 2014 at "only" $900 US. Total would be ~$4300 USD for everything including freight.



Werner Weitner GmbH

Index of /images/tools/engine_stands

 

[IslandMon]

I have been lusting after the professional engine stand as seen at this link (also shown below), but I have never been able to find out what the brand name or model number is. I assume it costs many hundreds of dollars - or worse - but it also doesn't have some of the drawbacks of the HF stand (for one, there's enough room on the pro stand to access the flywheel bolts - can't do that on the HF stand).

gsxr,

It is funny that you post post those images. That picture index has been a major reason for my interest in pulling the motor!

I will check out harbor freight for sure. Save some $$$.

Which holes on the motor do the 4 arms of the stand mount to?

I appreciate the help everyone.

 

[jhodg5ck]

I use the HF 4 leg stands, they work Well..just line up the holes as best you can..they're not exactly Ideal placement wise but it works Fine..

Not sure where you are located but sometimes you can get a Killer deal on craigs on engine hoists and tilters....

Jonathan

 

[IslandMon]

I went to HF the other day with a friend and 2 coupons and picked up the 2 ton hoist and 1 ton (non folding) engine stand.
I also bought a 3/4 ton load leveler for $40 . It seems kind of cheap, but then when I look online, home depot, summit racing etc.. all sell the same one for more.
Any thoughts?

I am eager to pull it, but I must learn much more about R&R.
I have seen the motor and trans pulled without the radiator, headlights, stiffener, accessory fans, etc. removed.
I assume it would be easier to hoist it out if I were to remove all of this...?

Does anyone know of a good resource besides the factory repair cd or photo index on w124performance?

Thanks for the help!

 

[gsxr]

I am eager to pull it, but I must learn much more about R&R.
I have seen the motor and trans pulled without the radiator, headlights, stiffener, accessory fans, etc. removed. I assume it would be easier to hoist it out if I were to remove all of this...?

I will be attempting this myself in the near future - hopefully this month, or early March at the latest. So, I may have more info to share at that poiint.

If you plan to pull the engine + trans together, I believe the radiator MUST be removed. I would remove the radiator anyway - it's not that hard to take out, and it will allow more space to work, and no worries about damaging fragile aluminum fins. Place a thin piece of wood (1/8" thick), or heavy cardboard, over the condenser fins to prevent damage. The electric fans and condenser remain in place, as does the A/C compressor and hoses. Headlights can remain in place as well.

The next question is, do you want to pull the engine separate from the transmission. Pulling both together requries crazy steep angles for removal and insertion, and even then you often end up banging the firewall insulation and/or front radiator crossmember. I'm going to try pulling the motor alone, which should come out vertically, straight up with no obstructions. I'll need to figure out how to support the trans while the engine is out though. It may be tough to remove the tranny (if necessary) once the motor is out, but it's not terribly heavy, two strong guys could probably pull it out by hand. I don't need to pull the trans out of my car (this time) so I'm not overly concerned with this.

UPDATE: Easiest method, IMO, is to first remove the trans out the bottom, then pull the engine out the top. Done this several times, works great. Engine & trans are out of the car in 8 hours total.

 

[TerryA]

Over the years I have removed several engines but none that were even close to the tight clearances on the E500E but they all had some kind of clearance issues.

Here is something to at least consider.

IMOP, That engine is shoehorned into the 124 chassie and there are bound to be really tight clearance issues.

I would be removing the transmission first. Take it out from the bottom. Then you don't have to worry about supporting it. You can rent a trans jack at almost any tool rental yard or buy one if you must.

Be sure to drain the torque converter before you remove the trans unless you want a trans oil bath.

Before you remove the engine I would remove the cooling fan and the radiator.

You would surely damage the radiator and removing the fan will give you that much more clearance. It's only 4 bolts.

Once the engine is loose and you start to lift it out it will probably swing in one direction or another and bang into something. It's best to have some extra muscle around to prevent this from happening.

 

[gsxr]

Here are photos of an M119 attached to the Harbor Freight 2000-lb, non-folding engine stand.

NOTE: This stand has short tubes and the M119 flex plate must be removed. I don't recommend this stand for the M119.

 

[IslandMon]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

gsxr, what length bolts are you using for the 4 arms of the stand?
are they 10 mm? I will check service manual.

Thanks!

 

[gsxr]

The bolts are M10 x 1.5 thread. For my cheapy HF engine stand with mounting "tubes" approx 70mm long, I needed two 90mm bolts up top, and two 110mm bolts+nuts at the bottom, plus washers. Double check the lengths needed for your particular engine stand though, and make certain the bolts will not bottom out when tightened!

Note: I think the top bolt holes are approx 25mm deep, and you want about 20mm of thread going into those holes. Also, there are threaded studs on each side of the block... the one on the right (passenger) side goes into an oil return passage, and requires sealant on the threads before re-installing. I did not remove either of the studs, as you can see in the photos above.

 

[IslandMon]

Thanks for the much needed information.

How much should I torque those M10's down?

Thanks!

 

[Glen]

Torque will depend on bolt grade:
http://www.dansmc.com/torque_chart.htm

 

[gsxr]

Forgot to post this, but I ended up buying a Sunex 8750, and also the Summit Racing clone of the Sunex 8300GA stand (now replaced by the 8300GB). Both of these have the long tubes required to clear the flex plate on the M119 engine.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-908300GA/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SXT-8300GA/

Photos here of the Sunex 8750 with an M119 mounted. I need to get a photo of the Summit stand with M119 mounted.
http://www.w124performance.com/images/tools/engine_stands/

 

[emerydc8]

Did you buy both just to compare them? Any significant difference between the Sunex and Summit?

 

[gsxr]

Did you buy both just to compare them? Any significant difference between the Sunex and Summit?

I bought the Sunex 8750 as an "engine holder", meaning it does not rotate to move the cylinder head horizontal with the floor. Hard to beat for under $110 delivered. Allows me to move an engine around in my shop, instead of sitting on the floor.

I bought the 8300GA clone because it was a geared style, which is supposed to allow rotating the engine on the stand. I haven't yet tried this function and it may not work as advertised, but I thought it would be worth a try. I do not know why the Summit brand is $220 while the Sunex version is $340. I did not buy the $340 version for comparison! I'm hoping Summit didn't cheap out too much on it, compared to the Sunex.

I found it was very difficult to locate engine stands with mounting tubes long enough to allow the M119 to fit without removing the flex plate. That criteria alone rules out >90% of the stands on the market. The Werner stand is still the holy grail, but good lord, $3000 is a lot of coin for a engine stand if you're not using it daily...!

 

[emerydc8]

The Werner stand is still the holy grail, but good lord, $3000 is a lot of coin for a engine stand if you're not using it daily...!

Things only Klink has access to!

 

[Klink]

I bought the Sunex 8750 as an "engine holder", meaning it does not rotate to move the cylinder head horizontal with the floor. Hard to beat for under $110 delivered. Allows me to move an engine around in my shop, instead of sitting on the floor.

I bought the 8300GA clone because it was a geared style, which is supposed to allow rotating the engine on the stand. I haven't yet tried this function and it may not work as advertised, but I thought it would be worth a try. I do not know why the Summit brand is $220 while the Sunex version is $340. I did not buy the $340 version for comparison! I'm hoping Summit didn't cheap out too much on it, compared to the Sunex.

I found it was very difficult to locate engine stands with mounting tubes long enough to allow the M119 to fit without removing the flex plate. That criteria alone rules out >90% of the stands on the market. The Werner stand is still the holy grail, but good lord, $3000 is a lot of coin for a engine stand if you're not using it daily...!

Things only Klink has access to!

 

[gsxr]

Klink, have you ever used (or seen in person) the Werner-Weitner stands pictured in post #4? Are they da bomb, or is it one of those 'never meet your heroes' things?

 

[Klink]

Klink, have you ever used (or seen in person) the Werner-Weitner stands pictured in post #4? Are they da bomb, or is it one of those 'never meet your heroes' things?

Oh, it is the bomb! Every WW tool I have seen was sweet, but

 

[HOFF]

Interesting engine stand !!!