Postby Powerman on Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:21 pm
Hello
I just had to take it from it's winter sleep for a spin and noticed the following thing. When KD from standing still, it switched from 1-2 gear at 4500rpm, shouldn't it change gear around 6000rpm?
And how about when you use the gears forced on, is it allowed to change up with full throttle?(And no, I haven't done that, have to ask first. :ugeek: )
280E '81
500E '92
Powerman
==============================
Postby Glen on Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:33 pm
If you had the pedal all the way to the floor then the most likely problem is the kick down switch under the pedal is broken.
Glen Tokuhara
==============================
Postby Powerman on Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:55 pm
The KD switch crossed my mind...Though I have a feeling it worked when KD at normal speed. Does anyone know the part nr. is for the switch?
280E '81
500E '92
==============================
Postby NEOKEN on Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:01 am
Part Number: 0025452214
30 CONTROL - Diagrams and Part Numbers from Mercedes-Benz Club Russia
124.036 500E / AMG 500E 6.0 E500 / E60 AMG (KICK-DOWN SWITCH)
=============================
Postby gsxr on Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:59 pm
Check the easy stuff first... the wire could be unplugged from the solenoid on the rear of the transmission. Also, test the switch behind the pedal before replacing it. I had the same problem on my other W124 recently, and the kickdown solenoid on the tranny was the problem (you can test it with an ohm meter, should be low ohms, like single digits... the bad one measured a few hundred ohm, IIRC).
Dave M.
Boise, ID
1995 E420 (W.I.P.)
1994 E500 (Q-ship)
1993 300D (Sportline)
1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
1987 300D (R.I.P)
Click here for my website photos, documents, and movies.
=============================
Postby Powerman on Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:24 pm
Ok, the switch seems to work now, and the gear changes as they suppose to. But I must say I'm a bit worried about the cars performance. Tested it's acceleration and compared it to the ones you find on youtube, and it's not as fast as they are,we're talking of about a second on 0-100km/h and more to higher speeds, and that is much in my opinion. It's feels that the power decreases at about 5500rpm, ok I know it's normal, but when i look at the other 500Es accelerating, their power is constant to like 6400rpm.
Does anybody have any other suggestion than a bad engine? It's funny because the engine has only about 200000km, and I have a hard time beliveing it's worn out. The throttle control is adjusted and I haven't pulled any codes yet. Thanks for any ideas!
280E '81
500E '92
=============================
Postby gsxr on Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:30 pm
The power should not taper off at 5500... it should pull strong right past 6000rpm. Something is definitely wrong, but you'll need to start by pulling codes, clearing codes, and then seeing which ones return. Remember you need to get codes from all six main modules, not just pull codes from the little LED outside the CAN box (that only shows codes from the DM). You can decipher the codes using this PDF document.
=============================
Postby Powerman on Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:10 pm
Thanks for the fast reply! Yep, I'll pull the codes, just have to fix me a code reader first. You'll be hearing from me..
280E '81
500E '92
=============================
Postby Powerman on Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:43 pm
Found a topic on 500ecstasy of the same problem that I seem to have->no power at high revs. The problem was blocked cats. Another suggestion was a faulty MAF.
I have read somewhere that you can measure if the MAF is ok, does anybody know how to do that?
If the cat is broken, can you hear them rattle if knocking/shaking them?
Built a code reader today but it didn't work. A local electrician gave me a 480kohm resistant for it, is it the right size for it?
Measured voltage over pin 1 and 3, it was 11.5v, enough?
A lot of questions here..
280E '81
500E '92
=============================
Postby gerryvz on Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:08 pm
The MAF will throw a code if it's bad, that's one simple way to tell.
Cheers,
Gerry
=============================
Postby gsxr on Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:11 pm
If the cats are BROKEN, yes, they will usually rattle. But plugged, no, they may be silent.
Code reader - go to this link, skip to the bottom, look at the schematic on how to build the code reader. Or, just buy this one from eBay (but discard the CD which comes with it - those code sheets are junk).
Voltage at pins 1 + 3 should be fine if it's close to 12v.
=============================
Postby Powerman on Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:40 am
My code reader works
The electrician had given me a 470kohm resistant by mistake, when it should have been 470ohm. Well anyway, the codes i got was:
pin6-30
pin7-2,6,14
pin16-13,33
pin30-8
Is here anything that could have to do with the engine pulling poorly?
280E '81
500E '92
=============================
Postby gsxr on Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:27 pm
1) Did you look up those codes on the document I linked earlier?
2) Have you cleared all the codes, and checked which ones return after a day or two of test driving?
=============================
Postby Powerman on Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:47 pm
1) Yep, had a look at the codes. Some of them just don't say nothing to me.
pin6 ABS/ASR, 30- CAN data bus EA/CC/ISC control module,interrupted
pin7 EA/CC/ISC, 2-many options
6-backup lamp switch
14-closed throttle position switch
pin16 ACC, 13-coolant temp sensor interrupt
33-Compressor cut-out control unit, short circuit/interrupt
pin30 SRS, 8-Voltage supply circuit 15R
2) Yes,now I have cleared the codes exept the ACC codes, they didn't go away. It was like there was something wrong with pin30, the led was a little lit up all the time.
Haven't got any new codes yet. Can take a while, because the snowing over here never seems to end..
I was out and started the car, it didn't run smoothly. Idle was jumping about 50rpm and at higher revs it was like ignition didn't work as it should, my earlier car experiences would point at rotors/caps/plugwires/plugs. It's weird because the earlier owner replaced rotors/caps to new ones, well, have to check them out.
280E '81
500E '92
=============================
Postby gsxr on Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:32 pm
Pins 6 and 7 have the important codes (the ACC and SRS codes are not relevant to engine performance). It will be interesting to see which codes return after driving for a few days. My gut reaction is that the gear position indicator switch on the tranny may be defective. If the engine will not rev above 2000rpm in Park or Neutral, that's a sure sign the switch is toast. A digital scanner would easily verify the switch operation (as well as isolate the "many options" for EA code 2) but since you don't have access to one, you're forced to do a little trial & error for now.
Some codes may require an engine re-start or two before they will go away. But they should go away eventually. It wouldn't hurt to inspect the caps & rotors, a little cleaning wouldn't hurt, but they shouldn't need replacement if they are fairly recent. These items are expensive, and should last a long time (50-100kmi). The wires should last even longer. You can pull the plugs and take a look at them, hopefully all appear about the same, and are not black or fouled.
=============================
Postby Powerman on Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:33 am
Found out a few things today. Checked out the caps and plugs, caps were as new and the plugs were dry and looked all the same.
It did actually have problems with reving att Park, not at 2000rpm but about 3500rpm.Does it have to cut off at exactly 2000rpm to be a faulty gear position indicator?
What is the purpose of the GPI? and how does it have to do with the engine running bad? I'm sure it has a good reason beeing there, I'm just curious.
BTW, are the GPI and neutral safety switch the same thing?
280E '81
500E '92
Powerman
=============================
Postby gsxr on Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:29 pm
Good questions - and I'm not sure about the answers. On my car, it wouldn't rev past 2k some of the time. With the new GPI, it will rev freely (pretty sure past 4k, but I'll check next time i drive it). I think a code can be thrown if it revs past 5-something in P or N (forget where I read that).
As to the purpose of the GPI, it sends a signal to the E-GAS control module, but I'm not certain exactly what the E-GAS unit does with it. With my bad GPI, the car would occasionaly go into limp-home mode with the ASR light on, although it would clear itself with a re-start.
=============================
Postby Powerman on Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:27 pm
I drove it a bit today to see if any codes pop up, no codes, but when I tested reving at P, it didn't go past 2000rpm. So your gut was right :up2: , the GPI switch seems to be broken. Could it be possible that it has to do with the engines performance..
280E '81
500E '92
Powerman
Hello
I just had to take it from it's winter sleep for a spin and noticed the following thing. When KD from standing still, it switched from 1-2 gear at 4500rpm, shouldn't it change gear around 6000rpm?
And how about when you use the gears forced on, is it allowed to change up with full throttle?(And no, I haven't done that, have to ask first. :ugeek: )
280E '81
500E '92
Powerman
==============================
Postby Glen on Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:33 pm
If you had the pedal all the way to the floor then the most likely problem is the kick down switch under the pedal is broken.
Glen Tokuhara
==============================
Postby Powerman on Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:55 pm
The KD switch crossed my mind...Though I have a feeling it worked when KD at normal speed. Does anyone know the part nr. is for the switch?
280E '81
500E '92
==============================
Postby NEOKEN on Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:01 am
Part Number: 0025452214
30 CONTROL - Diagrams and Part Numbers from Mercedes-Benz Club Russia
124.036 500E / AMG 500E 6.0 E500 / E60 AMG (KICK-DOWN SWITCH)
=============================
Postby gsxr on Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:59 pm
Check the easy stuff first... the wire could be unplugged from the solenoid on the rear of the transmission. Also, test the switch behind the pedal before replacing it. I had the same problem on my other W124 recently, and the kickdown solenoid on the tranny was the problem (you can test it with an ohm meter, should be low ohms, like single digits... the bad one measured a few hundred ohm, IIRC).
Dave M.
Boise, ID
1995 E420 (W.I.P.)
1994 E500 (Q-ship)
1993 300D (Sportline)
1987 300D (Sportline Stage 2)
1987 300D (R.I.P)
Click here for my website photos, documents, and movies.
=============================
Postby Powerman on Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:24 pm
Ok, the switch seems to work now, and the gear changes as they suppose to. But I must say I'm a bit worried about the cars performance. Tested it's acceleration and compared it to the ones you find on youtube, and it's not as fast as they are,we're talking of about a second on 0-100km/h and more to higher speeds, and that is much in my opinion. It's feels that the power decreases at about 5500rpm, ok I know it's normal, but when i look at the other 500Es accelerating, their power is constant to like 6400rpm.
Does anybody have any other suggestion than a bad engine? It's funny because the engine has only about 200000km, and I have a hard time beliveing it's worn out. The throttle control is adjusted and I haven't pulled any codes yet. Thanks for any ideas!
280E '81
500E '92
=============================
Postby gsxr on Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:30 pm
The power should not taper off at 5500... it should pull strong right past 6000rpm. Something is definitely wrong, but you'll need to start by pulling codes, clearing codes, and then seeing which ones return. Remember you need to get codes from all six main modules, not just pull codes from the little LED outside the CAN box (that only shows codes from the DM). You can decipher the codes using this PDF document.
=============================
Postby Powerman on Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:10 pm
Thanks for the fast reply! Yep, I'll pull the codes, just have to fix me a code reader first. You'll be hearing from me..
280E '81
500E '92
=============================
Postby Powerman on Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:43 pm
Found a topic on 500ecstasy of the same problem that I seem to have->no power at high revs. The problem was blocked cats. Another suggestion was a faulty MAF.
I have read somewhere that you can measure if the MAF is ok, does anybody know how to do that?
If the cat is broken, can you hear them rattle if knocking/shaking them?
Built a code reader today but it didn't work. A local electrician gave me a 480kohm resistant for it, is it the right size for it?
Measured voltage over pin 1 and 3, it was 11.5v, enough?
A lot of questions here..
280E '81
500E '92
=============================
Postby gerryvz on Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:08 pm
The MAF will throw a code if it's bad, that's one simple way to tell.
Cheers,
Gerry
=============================
Postby gsxr on Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:11 pm
If the cats are BROKEN, yes, they will usually rattle. But plugged, no, they may be silent.
Code reader - go to this link, skip to the bottom, look at the schematic on how to build the code reader. Or, just buy this one from eBay (but discard the CD which comes with it - those code sheets are junk).
Voltage at pins 1 + 3 should be fine if it's close to 12v.
=============================
Postby Powerman on Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:40 am
My code reader works
The electrician had given me a 470kohm resistant by mistake, when it should have been 470ohm. Well anyway, the codes i got was:pin6-30
pin7-2,6,14
pin16-13,33
pin30-8
Is here anything that could have to do with the engine pulling poorly?
280E '81
500E '92
=============================
Postby gsxr on Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:27 pm
1) Did you look up those codes on the document I linked earlier?
2) Have you cleared all the codes, and checked which ones return after a day or two of test driving?
=============================
Postby Powerman on Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:47 pm
1) Yep, had a look at the codes. Some of them just don't say nothing to me.
pin6 ABS/ASR, 30- CAN data bus EA/CC/ISC control module,interrupted
pin7 EA/CC/ISC, 2-many options
6-backup lamp switch
14-closed throttle position switch
pin16 ACC, 13-coolant temp sensor interrupt
33-Compressor cut-out control unit, short circuit/interrupt
pin30 SRS, 8-Voltage supply circuit 15R
2) Yes,now I have cleared the codes exept the ACC codes, they didn't go away. It was like there was something wrong with pin30, the led was a little lit up all the time.
Haven't got any new codes yet. Can take a while, because the snowing over here never seems to end..
I was out and started the car, it didn't run smoothly. Idle was jumping about 50rpm and at higher revs it was like ignition didn't work as it should, my earlier car experiences would point at rotors/caps/plugwires/plugs. It's weird because the earlier owner replaced rotors/caps to new ones, well, have to check them out.
280E '81
500E '92
=============================
Postby gsxr on Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:32 pm
Pins 6 and 7 have the important codes (the ACC and SRS codes are not relevant to engine performance). It will be interesting to see which codes return after driving for a few days. My gut reaction is that the gear position indicator switch on the tranny may be defective. If the engine will not rev above 2000rpm in Park or Neutral, that's a sure sign the switch is toast. A digital scanner would easily verify the switch operation (as well as isolate the "many options" for EA code 2) but since you don't have access to one, you're forced to do a little trial & error for now.
Some codes may require an engine re-start or two before they will go away. But they should go away eventually. It wouldn't hurt to inspect the caps & rotors, a little cleaning wouldn't hurt, but they shouldn't need replacement if they are fairly recent. These items are expensive, and should last a long time (50-100kmi). The wires should last even longer. You can pull the plugs and take a look at them, hopefully all appear about the same, and are not black or fouled.
=============================
Postby Powerman on Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:33 am
Found out a few things today. Checked out the caps and plugs, caps were as new and the plugs were dry and looked all the same.
It did actually have problems with reving att Park, not at 2000rpm but about 3500rpm.Does it have to cut off at exactly 2000rpm to be a faulty gear position indicator?
What is the purpose of the GPI? and how does it have to do with the engine running bad? I'm sure it has a good reason beeing there, I'm just curious.
BTW, are the GPI and neutral safety switch the same thing?
280E '81
500E '92
Powerman
=============================
Postby gsxr on Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:29 pm
Good questions - and I'm not sure about the answers. On my car, it wouldn't rev past 2k some of the time. With the new GPI, it will rev freely (pretty sure past 4k, but I'll check next time i drive it). I think a code can be thrown if it revs past 5-something in P or N (forget where I read that).
As to the purpose of the GPI, it sends a signal to the E-GAS control module, but I'm not certain exactly what the E-GAS unit does with it. With my bad GPI, the car would occasionaly go into limp-home mode with the ASR light on, although it would clear itself with a re-start.
=============================
Postby Powerman on Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:27 pm
I drove it a bit today to see if any codes pop up, no codes, but when I tested reving at P, it didn't go past 2000rpm. So your gut was right :up2: , the GPI switch seems to be broken. Could it be possible that it has to do with the engines performance..
280E '81
500E '92
Powerman
