Heads Come Off M119 With 77K Miles — ?

[gerryvz]

Interesting that the heads had to come off the M119 in this W140. I wonder why.

I made a comment in the comments section on the video.

 

[WDB748372]

Followed by part 2 which was the detail

I'm nowhere near as knowledgable with the M119 as most here but isn't changing the head gaskets at 70k a bit over the top? At what point should one consider to replace it as a preventative maintenance item?

 

[Oldcar]

I would leave alone indefinitely...unless a bad leak or some other major issue came up

 

[gsxr]

I would leave alone indefinitely...unless a bad leak or some other major issue came up

This: ^^^

M119's almost never need head gasket replacement proactively.

Tech has 45 years experience yet refers to the M119 as "two M104's put together"? Uh, no, that's the M120. However, if the tech really believes this, it might explain why they think the M119 needs periodic head gasket replacement like the M104, which really does need new head gaskets on a regular basis.

All that work and they didn't replace ALL the upper chain rails while it was apart?

Total cost was downright reasonable compared to some other invoices I've seen elsewhere, so there's that. Hope the aluminium tubes were not ÜRO, but it's likely at only $20/ea. The good Rauch & Spiegels are about $30/ea. Odd there's no line items for the intake gaskets or PCV hoses.

 

[JC220]

Mileage isn't the only consideration. Age and keeping up with antifreeze changes is a major factor.

I didn't watch the video. But I have posted photos on here before of used m119 / M104 and similar era head gaskets I removed and they were all in rough shape. Not leaking or showing signs of failure granted. But when I removed them they were delamination and had many of the coolant areas opening up with corrosion. I suspect they won't last indefinitely it's really a matter of when they will let go under normal conditions. These cars are now 30 years old + so I would say about 40 years old will start to show failures due to age.

Most of my cars have had full top end rebuilds proactively by now. But some still haven't been touched like my 500E so I will be doing them in the next year or two to ensure I can still get all the spare parts required.

Typical old m119 gakset photos here - Post in thread 'JC220' OWNER - JC220 | Owners and Their Cars

 

[gerryvz]

The comment I left in the comments to this video echos all of the points made above, with regard to almost NEVER needing head gasket changes, as well as the M120 being pretty much two M104s joined at the crank …. And the M119 being an evolution of the M117 with twin cam/four-valve cylinder heads.

There was a lot that was just wrong with that video, so I had to call it out. Normally Woods and Barclay has their shit together, but I will give them a bit of a pass, because he repeatedly says that he is by no means an expert on gasser engines, and especially not the M119.

But the shop that did the work touts 45 years of the tech working on MBs, so they should have known better. And they gave Woods and Barclay bunk information on the video.

Just wanted to flag it here. I blame the shop, not Mr. WoodsandBarclay.

I know @jhodg5ck knows Mr. WoodsandBarclay as they are fellow Hotlanta-area shop owners…..

 

[Jlaa]

At least they were using the Braun HF LED lights!!
BTW - interesting to see the use of those platinum 7422 spark plugs on the distributorless version of the M119.

 

[gsxr]

Mileage isn't the only consideration. Age and keeping up with antifreeze changes is a major factor.

Joe, watch 8:30 to 9:00 to see the old head gaskets from this engine. Screenshot below. These look brand new compared to the photos in your thread showing seriously degraded head gaskets!

 

[gsxr]

The comment I left in the comments to this video echos all of the points made above...

Gerry, I am not seeing your comment. Either it's awaiting moderation, or it was censored...

 

[gerryvz]

Gerry, I am not seeing your comment. Either it's awaiting moderation, or it was censored...

 

[gerryvz]

Interesting. I can see the comment I made when I am logged into YouTube and view the video from my account.

When I log out, it is not visible. I did mention "500Eboard" and I think that may now be a keyword that triggers the "disappearance" of comments that include it. I definitely know that other comments I've made on Youtube videos, where the forum name wasn't mentioned, have not been affected and are visible. So it has to be the forum name as a trigger word.

Here is an April 7 comment I made on the Tasos "inspection" video that @e500.org recently posted on....as you can see it garnered replies, and loves from Tasos, so obviously it was visible to others.

 

[Lumpy2]

This was a timely discussion and video to stumble across for me. I have a 1998 SL500 with the M119 and 64000 or so miles currently. It was a California car originally registered as a company car and did a fair amount of sitting (less than 1000 miles a year) based on service history for the first decade or so of ownership. I got the car in 2020 with 46000 miles. Covid impulse buy on my part sight unseen from a Mercedes club owner in their classifieds.

I hadn't driven the car in about a month and put it away over winter. It's kept on a tender and stabil in the tank for 5-6 months till warm weather comes back in New York. I needed to move the car recently to get stuff out of the garage and driveway before snow started a few weeks ago. Another snow blast tonight. Upon start up, it had that sweet coolant smell and I shut it off and looked around but there were no apparent leaks and the coolant in the reservoir tank was at the right level. Took out the pressure tester and it could not hold 15 psi and dropped to 10 psi in 5 minutes. Found 2 minor leaks after pressurizing the system at the hose clamp on the base of reservoir tank and the hose clamp at the bottom of the water pump. Tightened both clamps which stopped the leaks but psi still doesn't hold on the pressure tester...same rate of decline.

Decided to try the UV dye in the coolant reservoir tank and proceeded to idle the engine about 10 mins....after shutting it off and opening the hood, the front and back of the engine look like neon paint splatter. No engine over heating and the heat in the cabin working nicely. Opened oil cap and it's looking milky on the bottom of the cap with splotches of neon inside. I've been religious about changing oil every 6 months and coolant every 2 years since I've owned it and all the other fluids (trans, brake and differential oil). Car was running beautifully all summer and fall till I put it away. Oil on the dipstick looks clean but clearly oil is mixing with coolant. Plan is to have it towed to mechanic. No records for coolant changes until I got the car in 2020. Just records for oil services, brake fluid, transmission fluid services and one serpentine belt in the first 15 years at the same dealership in Santa Monica. I'll post pics of the head gaskets and various parts of engine if my mechanic can save it.

 

[alabbasi]

Similar issue reported by me a couple of weeks ago on my 98 SL500. Ran as smooth as glass and then all of a sudden would not crank due to cylinder #5 being full of coolant.

It may be an age related thing or maybe bad castings or batch of head gaskets on the last model years.

 

[gsxr]

The interesting data point on the recent failures is that all are on open-deck M119 engines. The 1999 S500 from the original post in this thread, @Lumpy2's 1998 SL500, and @alabbasi's 1998 SL500.

Not sure if that is coincidence, but to date we've had very few reports of closed-deck M119 head gasket failures besides @JC220's.

@Klink?

 

[R129 UK]

What is the failure mechanism caused by infrequent coolant changes and what is the recommended interval (miles / time)?

Is it an issue on my 1998 M119.982?

 

[gsxr]

What is the failure mechanism caused by infrequent coolant changes...

I think we'd need to see evidence of gasket deterioration at the coolant passages, which could be related to infrequent coolant changes? Depending on the service history available, this could be difficult to figure out.

and what is the recommended interval (miles / time)?

Official interval back in the 1990's was every 3 years. However, Zerex G-05 says 5 years is acceptable... and Mercedes started allowing up to 15 years (!) by the mid-2000's with the same G-05. Note that Zerex assumes there is not any supplemental corrosion protection available in the cooling system, while Mercedes coolant reservoirs have a silica pack inside that extends coolant life. So, the 15-year interval by MB likely requires the silica pack to be present. My previous comments on coolant change intervals are in this post.

TLDR - changing coolant every 5 years or less should be plenty adequate with G05 (yellow) or G48 (blue). Beyond 5 years, you must test regularly with pH strips.

 

[R129 UK]

I think we'd need to see evidence of gasket deterioration at the coolant passages, which could be related to infrequent coolant changes? Depending on the service history available, this could be difficult to figure out.

It sounds like it's not an easily detectable issue until it becomes a (major) problem...

I think I will do a PM change on mine before it is back on the road next Spring just to be on the safe side.

Are there any resources here to guide me through the process?

EDIT - just found these threads which seem to cover it:

Thread 'Coolant Change'

Oct 8, 2011

Hi Guys,

I will be replacing my auxillary coolant pump (no heat at idle), and overflow tank (dont like the look of the old yellowed tank), and figured it woild be a good time to drain the old coolant and replace with fresh coolant.

From what I have read it seems fairly staightforward.......drain radiator and open two drains in the block and refill with 50/50 mix of coolant and water.

Cant be that simple, right?? Any tips for a first timer?

How many gallons of coolant do I need?

Thanks!

Andy

• mistermiata
• Replies: 89
• Forum: Heating and Cooling (Interior HVAC systems)

• 

Thread 'Adding Coolant Antifreeze Corrosion Inhibitor'

Sep 8, 2011

I needed to put some corrosion inhibitor in my engine.

Research told me the system contains 15.5 litre in total. I could not find any guidance on the location of the engine drain plug...lots of other MB engines - yes, but not the M119.

A 50% solution is good to -37 deg C which is too low for UK where the car will end up.

The Antifrezze/Corrosion Inhibitor (Part Number A 000 989 08 25 10) comes in 1.5 litre bottles.

The Partsman suggested 2 bottles but I opted for 3 x 1.5 = 4.5 litre. That gives me 29% solution. That should be OK for the -20 deg. C. we get sometimes in UK.

My parking...

• Jim
• antifreeze coolant corrosion inhibitor
• Replies: 15
• Forum: M119 Engine

 

[chicky]

I think we'd need to see evidence of gasket deterioration at the coolant passages, which could be related to infrequent coolant changes? Depending on the service history available, this could be difficult to figure out.



Official interval back in the 1990's was every 3 years. However, Zerex G-05 says 5 years is acceptable... and Mercedes started allowing up to 15 years (!) by the mid-2000's with the same G-05. Note that Zerex assumes there is not any supplemental corrosion protection available in the cooling system, while Mercedes coolant reservoirs have a silica pack inside that extends coolant life. So, the 15-year interval by MB likely requires the silica pack to be present. My previous comments on coolant change intervals are in this post.

TLDR - changing coolant every 5 years or less should be plenty adequate with G05 (yellow) or G48 (blue). Beyond 5 years, you must test regularly with pH strips.

Hi Dave ,

Can I trouble you for a picture (if any) of what that silica pack looks like, in the reservoir?

Thank you in advance.

Best regards

 

[Klink]

I'll see what I can find out.

 

[TerryA]

@Klink,
Happy New Year!

 

[nocfn]

HE'S A L I V E

 

[nocfn]

fyi it is a tiny white bag, think 2 saltines for your cup of soup.

 

[gsxr]

Can I trouble you for a picture (if any) of what that silica pack looks like, in the reservoir?

I cut open an old reservoir many years ago to get a better look at this. I thought I had taken a photo, but apparently not. However, I still have the cut-open tank in my collection of treasures pile of crap in my shop. The trick will be finding it! I also have a NOS tank somewhere but can't recall if the silica pack is very visible through the opening.

Stay tuned, the snipe hunt will begin shortly...