Help autel live data e420 m119 cylinder faults

[E420 97 W210]

Hi friends my e420 engine M119 is with ignition faults I decided to pass the Autel ap200 scanner and got some live data I count on everyone's help for fingers any help will be welcome.

I am sending the files with all the live data that I got with the bike running.

 

[gsxr]

Instead of live data, can you check what fault codes return after you clear them? Have you checked if the igntion coil packs are good on the affected cylinder(s) and also the rubber boot that goes between coil and plug?

Not sure how much I trust the aftermarket scanner, it recognizes the car properly as an E420 with V8 engine but only shows six cylinders in live data...

 

[E420 97 W210]

Instead of live data, can you check what fault codes return after you clear them? Have you checked if the igntion coil packs are good on the affected cylinder(s) and also the rubber boot that goes between coil and plug?

Not sure how much I trust the aftermarket scanner, it recognizes the car properly as an E420 with V8 engine but only shows six cylinders in live data...

Thank you for responding
Only one code appears with the engine off P0450.

The caps are sparking and 12v in the socket.

About the reading of 6 cylinders may be because my fault in the cylinders are in cylinders 5 and 7, these cylinders are dead.

 

[gsxr]

P0450 is evaporative emissions fault, likely not related to the misfire.

If 2 cylinders are not firing, and had been working fine until recently, try swapping coils from other cylinders and see if the problem moves to the other cylinders instead.

 

[E420 97 W210]

Thank you for responding
Only one code appears with the engine off P0450.

The caps are sparking and 12v in the socket.

About the reading of 6 cylinders may be because my fault in the cylinders are in cylinders 5 and 7, these cylinders are dead.

From the live data the CKP sensor is not sending a signal

And the oil temperature sensor is reading -40c

 

[E420 97 W210]

P0450 is evaporative emissions fault, likely not related to the misfire.

If 2 cylinders are not firing, and had been working fine until recently, try swapping coils from other cylinders and see if the problem moves to the other cylinders instead.

Before the failures the engine was running fine the failures started gradually starting with a very small failure until it reached as it is now failure of a lot.

I changed the coils and the failures continue in cylinders 5 and 7.
I did the compression test and the cylinders have compression

 

[gsxr]

Compression is fine. Has to be either ignition or fuel. Are the plugs in 5 or 7 wet, or dry?

 

[E420 97 W210]

Compression is fine. Has to be either ignition or fuel. Are the plugs in 5 or 7 wet, or dry?

The spark plugs are damp in cylinders 5,6,7,8 curiously on the side where the cylinders that are dead are.

The fuel pump is sending 4 bar to the flute.

I cleaned the injector nozzles and they are all pulsating well.

 

[Alphasud40]

I’m curious as to why you have no flashing MIL and no misfire codes P0305 and P0307? I guess cars in Brazil are not OBD2 compliant? Autel does pretty well with OBD2 Mercedes but if your car doesn’t have OBD2 the software could have glitches in it. Like gsxr has said you need suck, squeeze, bang, and blow. You verified spark, fuel, and compression. That leaves suck and blow. Maybe you have an exhaust restriction? Does your car have catalytic converters? A vacuum leak would give you a lean misfire so I would focus on exh restrictions. Or maybe cam timing issues.

 

[E420 97 W210]

Estou curioso para saber por que você não tem MIL piscando e não tem códigos de falha de ignição P0305 e P0307? Acho que os carros no Brasil não são compatíveis com OBD2? A Autel se sai muito bem com o OBD2 Mercedes, mas se o seu carro não tiver o OBD2, o software pode ter falhas nele. Como o gsxr disse que você precisa chupar, apertar, bater e soprar. Você verificou faísca, combustível e compressão. Que as folhas chupam e sopram. Talvez você tenha uma restrição de exaustão? Seu carro tem conversores catalíticos? Um vazamento de vácuo lhe daria um erro de ignição magra, então eu me concentraria nas restrições exh. Ou talvez problemas de tempo da câmera.

Thank you very much for responding.

I also found it strange that several ignition fault codes did not appear when I ran the autel was with 10v the battery I do not know if that could have influenced the reading of the codes.

Here in Brazil all cars have OBD2
But the E420 97 only has the 38pin socket, the w210 started to have OBD2 from 98.

I bought an autel 16 and 38 pin adapter to be able to do the reading in my e420.

The catalytic converters seem to work fine, is there any test I can do to know if there is any restriction in the catalytic converters ?

Would clogged catalysts cause failure only on cylinder 5 and 7 ?

How can I identify the timing problem in the chamber?

 

[Alphasud40]

You can remove the O2 sensor on that side that is being effected and install a pressure gauge. Another way is to unbolt the converter and start the engine to see if the misfire clears. As for the timing removing the cam covers and bringing the engine to TDC to inspect the timing marks on the camshaft.

 

[E420 97 W210]

Thank you very much for responding.

I also found it strange that several ignition fault codes did not appear when I ran the autel was with 10v the battery I do not know if that could have influenced the reading of the codes.

Here in Brazil all cars have OBD2
But the E420 97 only has the 38pin socket, the w210 started to have OBD2 from 98.

I bought an autel 16 and 38 pin adapter to be able to do the reading in my e420.

The catalytic converters seem to work fine, is there any test I can do to know if there is any restriction in the catalytic converters ?

Would clogged catalysts cause failure only on cylinder 5 and 7 ?

How can I identify the timing problem in the chamber?


View attachment 167023

I am sending you some links to videos I made of the engine running

The latter videos the engine is at working temperature

 

[Alphasud40]

Also looking over the data from your scan tool. Engine load 40% is incorrect at idle, left and right injection pulse width is also wrong. Should be 2-3ms. Not 8!. And your O2 sensor data before the TWC conflicts itself. 900mv is right for the way it’s running not .5V as indicated on the same page. Try unplugging the MAF sensor on top of the throttle body and start the engine again. Any changes? Still think you need to rule out all the basics first with cam timing and exhaust restrictions. Low voltage should not be a reason for missed DTC’s

 

[E420 97 W210]

Also looking over the data from your scan tool. Engine load 40% is incorrect at idle, left and right injection pulse width is also wrong. Should be 2-3ms. Not 8!. And your O2 sensor data before the TWC conflicts itself. 900mv is right for the way it’s running not .5V as indicated on the same page. Try unplugging the MAF sensor on top of the throttle body and start the engine again. Any changes? Still think you need to rule out all the basics first with cam timing and exhaust restrictions. Low voltage should not be a reason for missed DTC’s

Thank you for responding.
I converted the PDFs with autel data from Portuguese to English, is it possible that I changed some data in the wrong way during the conversion ?

I changed the language of my cell phone to English and will read the data again with autel to see if I can generate PDF in English.

About the Maf when I disconnect the failures continue.

I will try to access the catalytic converters and remove the CO2 sensor from the side that is failing

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

[gsxr]

Cam timing or exhaust restrictions would not cause a lack of combustion on only 2 cylinders - it would affect all cylinders on one bank (1-2-3-4 or 5-6-7-8), or the entire engine.

Alphasud40 noted some interesting live data, you should check those items again. Problem is I don't know if the Autel data can be trusted. Can you compare to your car and see what live data elements are the same and which are very different? That may help.

 

[Alphasud40]

I agree with your thoughts Dave but he mentions all plugs are wet on that cylinder bank. Clearly something goofy is going on and if I throw out the erroneous O2 sensor PID showing 500mv it looks as if the ECU thinks a lean condition because the adaptions show maxed at 25% adding fuel, the other O2 sensors show rich and the injection pulse width is huge. I was also thinking I might be a good idea to remove the ECU and inspect for leaking capacitors. Not out of the realm considering the age and environmental conditions that car lives in. Easy stuff first.

 

[gsxr]

AH, good catch! Odd that 2 cylinders may be firing and 2 not firing, with wet plugs. I guess the follow-up question is if the entire plug is wet (wet insulator and tip), or only the metal barrel near the threads. Wet insulator means probably not firing at all, dry insulator with wet barrel means probably firing.

 

[E420 97 W210]

AH, boa captura! Estranho que 2 cilindros possam estar disparando e 2 não disparando, com plugues molhados. Acho que a questão de acompanhamento é se todo o plugue está molhado (isolador e ponta úmidos), ou apenas o barril de metal perto dos fios. Isolador úmido significa provavelmente não disparar, isolador seco com barril molhado significa provavelmente disparar.

Também analisando os dados da sua ferramenta de digitalização. A carga do motor 40% está incorreta em marcha lenta, a largura do pulso de injeção esquerda e direita também está errada. Deve ser 2-3ms. Não 8!. E os dados do seu sensor de O2 antes que o TWC entre em conflito. 900mv é certo para a maneira como está funcionando, não .5V, como indicado na mesma página. Tente desconectar o sensor MAF na parte superior do corpo do acelerador e ligue o motor novamente. Alguma mudança? Ainda acho que você precisa descartar todos os conceitos básicos primeiro com o tempo da câmera e as restrições de exaustão. A baixa tensão não deve ser um motivo para DTCs perdidos

Muito obrigado por responder.
Digitalizei os códigos com autel com o motor funcionando e 5 novos códigos apareceram.

Algum desses códigos poderia ser o motivo das falhas?

Uma curiosidade no tubo de descarga, uma extremidade está soprando mais forte e o cheiro de combustível é muito forte. Não sei se isso pode ser uma indicação de obstrução no catalisador.


Google Translation:

Thanks a lot for answering.
I scanned the codes with Autel with the engine running and 5 new codes appeared.

Could any of these codes be the reason for the failures?

A curiosity in the downpipe, one end is blowing harder and the smell of fuel is very strong. I don't know if this could be an indication of a clog in the catalytic converter.

 

[E420 97 W210]

AH, good catch! Odd that 2 cylinders may be firing and 2 not firing, with wet plugs. I guess the follow-up question is if the entire plug is wet (wet insulator and tip), or only the metal barrel near the threads. Wet insulator means probably not firing at all, dry insulator with wet barrel means probably firing.

The spark plugs are equally wet but only cylinder 5 and 7 are dead I disconnect the coil and nothing changes the engine is running on 6 cylinders

 

[E420 97 W210]

Also looking over the data from your scan tool. Engine load 40% is incorrect at idle, left and right injection pulse width is also wrong. Should be 2-3ms. Not 8!. And your O2 sensor data before the TWC conflicts itself. 900mv is right for the way it’s running not .5V as indicated on the same page. Try unplugging the MAF sensor on top of the throttle body and start the engine again. Any changes? Still think you need to rule out all the basics first with cam timing and exhaust restrictions. Low voltage should not be a reason for missed DTC’s

I did a new live data reading and generated files in English

 

[E420 97 W210]

AH, good catch! Odd that 2 cylinders may be firing and 2 not firing, with wet plugs. I guess the follow-up question is if the entire plug is wet (wet insulator and tip), or only the metal barrel near the threads. Wet insulator means probably not firing at all, dry insulator with wet barrel means probably firing.

Only the spark tip of the spark plug gets wet - the ceramic part stays dry

 

[E420 97 W210]

Muito obrigado por responder.
Digitalizei os códigos com autel com o motor funcionando e 5 novos códigos apareceram.

Algum desses códigos poderia ser o motivo das falhas?

Uma curiosidade no tubo de descarga, uma extremidade está soprando mais forte e o cheiro de combustível é muito forte. Não sei se isso pode ser uma indicação de obstrução no catalisador.

View attachment 167071

The oxygen sensor codes only appear when the engine is running, if you run the scanner with the key in position 2 they do not appear

 

[Alphasud40]

I did look over your data the second time and if looks similar but the wording changed. Still seems to be a mismatch between what the O2 sensors are reporting and wheat the ECU is delivering on fuel. The second set shows both sensors in front of the cat to be at the bias voltage of .5 volts. But other data such as injector pulse width and engine load and adaptive values say otherwise.
if you removed the catalyst from the exhaust manifold side if there was a restriction that would have fixed your rough running. So it sounds like the problem is still there. There is another value that just says actuator 20b,c not sure what that is measuring. When you can’t trust the scan tool data you must validate by measuring with a DMM. for example when I see the front O2 sensors at .5 volts I connect my DMM to the sensor and run the engine to ver the data. The same for injector pulse width. That can be measured is your meter has the ability to look at duty cycle.
I would still be wanting to check the camshaft timing just to make sure it’s not a mechanical issue. Also does the gasoline smell like gasoline? Maybe pour into a clear jar from fuel pressure port and see what it looks like.

 

[E420 97 W210]

I did look over your data the second time and if looks similar but the wording changed. Still seems to be a mismatch between what the O2 sensors are reporting and wheat the ECU is delivering on fuel. The second set shows both sensors in front of the cat to be at the bias voltage of .5 volts. But other data such as injector pulse width and engine load and adaptive values say otherwise.
if you removed the catalyst from the exhaust manifold side if there was a restriction that would have fixed your rough running. So it sounds like the problem is still there. There is another value that just says actuator 20b,c not sure what that is measuring. When you can’t trust the scan tool data you must validate by measuring with a DMM. for example when I see the front O2 sensors at .5 volts I connect my DMM to the sensor and run the engine to ver the data. The same for injector pulse width. That can be measured is your meter has the ability to look at duty cycle.
I would still be wanting to check the camshaft timing just to make sure it’s not a mechanical issue. Also does the gasoline smell like gasoline? Maybe pour into a clear jar from fuel pressure port and see what it looks like.

Thank you for answering it is helping a lot

I have not removed the catalytic converter yet, but I noticed that the gases coming out of the exhaust are coming out with more force from one side of the dual exhaust tip compared to the other side of the tip

What would be a DMM ?
I have a multimeter that could be used to measure these values ?

What is the procedure to check the camshaft timing, tools etc ?

The fuel pump is dry with no leaks.

The strong smell of fuel comes from the exhaust and when I accelerate the smell gets stronger as if I was burning raw fuel.

 

[gsxr]

DMM = Digital Multi Meter, i.e. a volt / ohm meter:

There should NEVER be a smell of raw fuel in the exhaust! This can destroy catalytic converters, and/or cause a fire (right, @kegmankipp !?)

 

[E420 97 W210]

I have news
I accelerated to 3000rpm and new codes appeared

I marked in green on the printout.

 

[Alphasud40]

P0300 random misfire code is not cylinder specific and usually occurs with global fueling issues which can be lean or rich in nature. The ECU is telling us what we already know. I guess it needed to see higher engine speeds to figure that out. As I said before there are a lot of codes and some conflicting information from your scan tool data. The only thing I can suggest is try to validate those faults using the workshop manual and see where it leads you. The P0105 MAP sensor code would be one fault you can troubleshoot since that is a sensor that helps with load calculation on some cars. In your Mercedes that sensor might only be used for altitude compensation as I’m not familiar with the ECU strategy on your model year M119.

 

[E420 97 W210]

P0300 random misfire code is not cylinder specific and usually occurs with global fueling issues which can be lean or rich in nature. The ECU is telling us what we already know. I guess it needed to see higher engine speeds to figure that out. As I said before there are a lot of codes and some conflicting information from your scan tool data. The only thing I can suggest is try to validate those faults using the workshop manual and see where it leads you. The P0105 MAP sensor code would be one fault you can troubleshoot since that is a sensor that helps with load calculation on some cars. In your Mercedes that sensor might only be used for altitude compensation as I’m not familiar with the ECU strategy on your model year M119.

I tested the values of the Co2 probe with a multimeter and am sending the pictures with the values I got from the left side and the right side.
I passed the autel again and appeared new codes now misfire in cylinder 8

(don't consider the code from the nozzle of cylinder 6 I purposely disconnected)

I think I made an interesting discovery with the engine running I disconnected the coil of cylinders 5,6,7,8 and the engine continued with the same failure this leads me to believe that cylinders 5,6,7,8 are with misfire, when I try to do the same with cylinders 1,2,3,4 using disconnect the nozzle of cylinders 1 and 2 the engine is at the point of shutting down.

What do you think that can be?

 

[gsxr]

Can you confirm if the coils of cylinders 5,6,7,8 are firing at all? I would inspect the wiring harness closely and look for any issues on that cylinder bank. Perhaps a bad / loose ground wire?

 

[E420 97 W210]

Can you confirm if the coils of cylinders 5,6,7,8 are firing at all? I would inspect the wiring harness closely and look for any issues on that cylinder bank. Perhaps a bad / loose ground wire?

:chocante:

The coils are firing.
I tested the voltage of the plug in each coil and they are all at 12v.

I tested the plug of the nozzles injection plug has two wires a side is coming out 12v and the other side is appearing 6V not if this is normal.

The whole bank of cylinders is failing and I was thinking that it might be a clogged catalytic converter.

 

[E420 97 W210]

Can you confirm if the coils of cylinders 5,6,7,8 are firing at all? I would inspect the wiring harness closely and look for any issues on that cylinder bank. Perhaps a bad / loose ground wire?

Today I did some tests and something curious happened when I disconnected the coil plug from cylinder 6 the engine does not move as if cylinder 6 did not exist, but when I disconnected the injector nozzle plug from cylinder 6 the engine moves as if it wanted to turn off I do not know if I was clear or if I need to make a video if it is relevant soon.

 

[E420 97 W210]

Friends, I have some news.

I replaced the 4 coils on the side that was failing by the coils of the other cylinder bank, now the engine does not hold the idle speed and is failing much more and leaving a lot of white smoke from the exhaust, this leads me to think that maybe they are 4 coils with defect ?

The fact that I put the coils of the cylinder bench that works in the bank that was failing made the fuel accumulated there burns generating white smoke, not if I am right in this line of reasoning.

The spark plugs on the failing bank are wet with fuel.

 

[gsxr]

Sure sounds like several defective coils... can you borrow coils from another car for testing?

 

[E420 97 W210]

Sure sounds like several defective coils... can you borrow coils from another car for testing?

My other cars do not have any coil models of the M119.

I guess I will have to buy coils.

Do you have any other tests I can do to make sure they are defective coils ?

 

[gsxr]

My other cars do not have any coil models of the M119.

I guess I will have to buy coils.

Do you have any other tests I can do to make sure they are defective coils ?

The only test you can do is measure ohms on all terminals of all coils, and compare them, HOWEVER this is not a conclusive test. All should have identical measurements (same ohms), any that don't match the others are likely defective.

 

[E420 97 W210]

The only test you can do is measure ohms on all terminals of all coils, and compare them, HOWEVER this is not a conclusive test. All should have identical measurements (same ohms), any that dont match the others are likely defective.

Thank you very much for responding, great idea.

Can I do this with a multimeter ?

What ohms values are ideal for a good coil and what ohms value for a bad coil ?

 

[gsxr]

Yes, use a multimeter for testing.

I'm not sure of the exact values, but if any are definitely defective, you'll see significant differences in the ohms measurements.

 

[E420 97 W210]

Sim, use um multímetro para testar.

Não tenho certeza dos valores exatos, mas se algum estiver definitivamente com defeito, você verá diferenças significativas nas medidas de ohms.

:cogumelo:

Eu testei todas as bobinas das 8 bobinas, 5 estão em baixa resistência, dessas 5, 4 estão no lado que estava falhando.

E os 5 ainda são o carro original.

As fotos são os valores de uma boa bobina e outra bobina no lado que falha.
(Boa Bobina)

Google Translate:​

I tested all the coils out of the 8 coils, 5 are at low resistance, of those 5, 4 are on the side that was failing.​

​

And the 5 is still the original car.​

​

The pictures are the values of a good coil and another coil on the failing side.​

(Good Coil)


Bad coil

 

[gsxr]

Did the problem occur suddenly without warning? Meaning, the engine was running normally and then one day it suddenly would not fire on some cylinders?

Or, was work performed (service / maintenance) and the engine has not run correctly since that time?

 

[E420 97 W210]

Did the problem occur suddenly without warning? Meaning, the engine was running normally and then one day it suddenly would not fire on some cylinders?

Or, was work performed (service / maintenance) and the engine has not run correctly since that time?

The cylinder failure started to happen gradually, I went to the car show 3km from my house, I realized that I was having a small failure, on the way back to my house the failure started to increase until it was as it is now. before this happened the engine was running perfectly.

I didn't do any maintenance before.