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Identifying bad caps & rotors
- Thread starter gerryvz
- Start date
It's just been sitting in my garage this winter - 4 months. Really weird. Lots of oil deprees too. Why?
The engine runs really poor. I used Electrical water repellent spray 4 months ago, because it didn't start. After that it allways starts, but there is no juice, just poor throttle and loader sound + fuel smell.
Could caps/rotors/worn/wet do this?
I recently purchased a 94 500E that I've been working on slowly. Car had a heavy misfire at idle. A quick inspection of the vehicle and I noticed 4 spark plug wires were not seated fully on the spark plugs, fixed that and the car ran slightly better but still unacceptable. I then noticed 2 of the injector connectors were not plugged in, plugged those in and the car ran slightly better, but still not acceptable. Pulled the plugs and saw they were not the correct type, changed those and the car ran near perfect... until the engine warmed up and then I would get the heavy misfire again... pulled the caps and rotors and then I found this on the drivers side:
Car is still on its original set of wires, so that needs to be changed next but as of right now, the car runs near flawlessly. There is a very slight miss/stumble every now and again and you have to be paying attention to notice it. Wires have to be changed and I need to check the insulators behind the rotors.
Car does need an upper harness.
Car is still on its original set of wires, so that needs to be changed next but as of right now, the car runs near flawlessly. There is a very slight miss/stumble every now and again and you have to be paying attention to notice it. Wires have to be changed and I need to check the insulators behind the rotors.
Car does need an upper harness.
This is regular on all M119 engines wherever they have been sitting for some days as long as the temps vary around zero deg. C, or more correctely around the dew point - which is a combination of the altitude and ambient temp - which is impossible to know exactly anyway. In warmer climates this may not occure that often, or if the car is driven on a regular basis.
It is no way to avoid this, read this: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...ts-on-engine-rotors-how-to-take-them-out-HELP
A friend of mine recently got a breakdown on one distributor on his E420, similar to what I had, shown in post #14 in that thread. One rotor bolt head corroded and fell off and broke everything in there except the rotor bracket. You can dry and clean these parts how much you ever like every day, the next day they are as soaked in water. The bakelite material has high attraction to water molecules.
The insulator cap PN you have is a Bosch PN, you need A119 158 02 88, this is the latest version OE. The early version is A119 158 01 88, which is what most parts dealers have in their catalogs, so you have to use that on most searches, see post #16 in the thread above for the different types. The insulators has an astronomic price at the MB stealer here in Norge, go for Speed Autoteile, Germany, approx. 1/3 the price, 2-3 days delivery.
But why do you change the insulator caps?? It's no point as long as they're not broken or cracked. Replace the O-rings if necessary.
-a-
Yes, definitely!
The wires can last a very, very long time. If you are not seeing arcing at night, the wire are probably fine. The plug boots should be checked for resistance, should be roughly between 1800-2400 ohms. Any which are several thousand ohms or more, are defective, in which case it probably makes sense to replace the wire set, as the original 90° boots are not cheap. At any rate, don't expect a magic fix with new wires. This is almost never the root cause.
Replace that immediately. You're lucky, the price went down substantially in January. Parts.com has about the best price around. Check the Wiki for more info.
Ha! - that's great! Exactly what I've had on one of my caps too. That shit broke already at the first mount of one cable, and I even used some thin oil on the rubber boots to avoid too much pressure. These bakelite parts are real garbage IMHO - Valar Morghulis!
Bing, I thought I posted a photo already, but can't find it so I guess I didn't. I stripped the black plastic outside on a bad distr.cap and checked the thickness on the bakelite. It's in fact quite thin, so the solid appearance on the caps is lying a bit. Then I did some thorough "Dreml-ing" to make similar slots as in the bottom, it went fine. I hope to implement it on one of the cars before spring time. (But no work for the moment, I've got badly ruptures in the thigh muscles on one leg.)
-a-
Great ! Thinking the same with my friend's 036 as we're fed up having misfire on the rare occasion it gets exercised during winter months. So will await to see your work .
Hope your leg gets better soon !
Guys,
I ordered 4 Bremi caps yesterday and was wondering which of these rotors fit our cars, and can they both be used with the Bremi caps?
[TD="class: product_main, bgcolor: White"]
04271
Bosch
OEM
- Distributor Rotor
For models with updated bracket 1191580640 (Bosch 1230328037). It cannot be used with previous bracket 1191580440. 2 per car.
View Details
[/TD]
[TD="class: product_main, bgcolor: White"]
[/TD] [TD="class: product_main, bgcolor: White"]
1191580331A
Bremi
- Distributor Rotor
2 per car.
View Details
[/TD]
[TD="class: product_main, bgcolor: White"]
[/TD]
I ordered 4 Bremi caps yesterday and was wondering which of these rotors fit our cars, and can they both be used with the Bremi caps?
Makes
04271
Bosch
OEM
- Distributor Rotor For models with updated bracket 1191580640 (Bosch 1230328037). It cannot be used with previous bracket 1191580440. 2 per car.
View Details
$34.45
SALE$35.89
List: $83.00
Qty:[/TD]
[/TD] [TD="class: product_main, bgcolor: White"]
1191580331A
Bremi
- Distributor Rotor 2 per car.
View Details
$29.80
SALE$31.04
List: $87.00
Qty:[/TD]
[/TD]
Last edited:
Warning:
If you are a novice mechanic, like me, start with the easy stuff first!
If I had read/observed/was cognizant of/obeyed post #1 of this thread, I would not have gone on this year long goose chase of occasional severe missing and rough running, particularly when the engine is warm.
I thought I was being smart by reading the codes that said I needed the left coil on my 93' 500E, so I proceeded to replace:
1. Both coils
2. Spark plugs
3. EZL- bought from indy shop
4. Tested all spark plug wires
Could not understand WHY the occasional severe miss when at idle until I re-read post #1 on this thread.
Replaced cap and rotors and my car is VERY happy and runs like a rocket.
If you are a novice mechanic, like me, start with the easy stuff first!
If I had read/observed/was cognizant of/obeyed post #1 of this thread, I would not have gone on this year long goose chase of occasional severe missing and rough running, particularly when the engine is warm.
I thought I was being smart by reading the codes that said I needed the left coil on my 93' 500E, so I proceeded to replace:
1. Both coils
2. Spark plugs
3. EZL- bought from indy shop
4. Tested all spark plug wires
Could not understand WHY the occasional severe miss when at idle until I re-read post #1 on this thread.
Replaced cap and rotors and my car is VERY happy and runs like a rocket.
Last edited:
Trae, did you inspect the back side of the insulators while you were in there? This wasn't discussed in this thread, but presence of fluid on the back side can cause some odd misfiring, sometimes even with recent caps/rotors. Probably not an issue for you, but something to keep in mind for next time.
Klink had reported that cars which would formerly "eat" a set of caps/rotors every year or so, stopped eating them after the insulator was replaced. (I think the caps/rotors were probably not bad/eaten, but were hiding the root cause, but that's a separate technical discussion.)
Klink had reported that cars which would formerly "eat" a set of caps/rotors every year or so, stopped eating them after the insulator was replaced. (I think the caps/rotors were probably not bad/eaten, but were hiding the root cause, but that's a separate technical discussion.)
The funny thing was that my car didn't run all that horribly, even with those gunged-up caps and rotors.
I'm getting ready to replace the cap and rotor on my 560SEC. They have been on that engine for just over 50,000 miles, and are still working fine. I'll post a HOW-TO and comparison photos in that section when I do this job. I don't think the M117 is nearly as hard on its ignition parts as the M119 CIS-E and LH engines are.
I'm getting ready to replace the cap and rotor on my 560SEC. They have been on that engine for just over 50,000 miles, and are still working fine. I'll post a HOW-TO and comparison photos in that section when I do this job. I don't think the M117 is nearly as hard on its ignition parts as the M119 CIS-E and LH engines are.
Looking forward to the write up Gerry. Please post the part #s that you buy.
So far, the 560SEC is running great, but there is no record of cap and rotor being replaced.
It may have been replaced when they did the top and bottom engine rebuild. That was about 40k ago.
So far, the 560SEC is running great, but there is no record of cap and rotor being replaced.
It may have been replaced when they did the top and bottom engine rebuild. That was about 40k ago.
Ouch. Well, put on a happy face & say that you were being proactive!
