Ignition problems on 4 cyl.

[BRABUS124]

The car SL500 129067 with the M119.972
Org German sold car for geaman customer.

Problem is.

Starts fine but as soon as it hits 60/65 degrees celciues the, engine cuts out 4 cyl.
Cyl 1-4-6-7 all from the same distributor drivers site and ignition coil.
Ignition is not present from the coil and no signals from the EZal either And it cuts out the same injectors as well.

Following parts were thrown at it before I got it in my hands.

All 8 ignition plugs Bosch FR8DC
All 10 ignition cables Beru cupper.
Both ign. Distributors bosch
Both rotors Bosch.
Both ign coils at the ABS blok Bosch but on the inner fender another brand (Facet)
Ignition module EZL swapped with other equal part number from a known driving SL500 also the LH engine module swaped from it. Same goes for the MAF and Throttle Bodie.
Wireharness in engine new Delfi.
All sensors bought new.
Cam, crank, knock, coolant sensors are new.
The guy really just went gold digging with the, car.

But it Still cuts out on those 4 cyl when reaching 60/65 degrees celciues. He told me. We'll I had missing 4 cyl all along cold or hot..

But if you pull the cam sensor off he said. It drives on all 8 just a bit more, down on power. Remeber cam sensor were also tried replaced and no difrence.

So I pulled off the distributors caps and found alot of moister inside. That's never good. So must be long time ago since he replaced them. I cleaned it all with contact cleaner and swiped off all residue inside also behind the black back covers. Up against the cyl head. Etc no oil from cam seals found.
Then sudently i got ignition from the coil and now the car behaved as he described for me it. So all the time going by the car developed another problem he dident see before the car sat at my place. Well the missing coil were now working until the temp Og 60/65 were reached the it cuts out those same 4 cyl again. So now what..

Well I began to suspect the ignition coil brand facet to be something worth looking into. Because even though I got spark from it. It still seamed odd the fault codes 4 pc were just ignition missing on these 4 nothing else. I dident had a single fault code from the LH module. Nor any other module. Just the 4 codes on the EZL.
So I changed it to a spare old used one I had but same problem.

So what now.

 

[nocfn]

Have you tried swapping the coil wires to see if the problem transferred to the other bank? have you looked at the car running in the dark to see if there are wires sparking from cracked or worn insulation? I had a circumstance where a plug were spiking or shorting to ground and live data showed the voltage spike to the specific cylinder. I replaced the plug (all 8 were from MB replaced with no miles on them) and the spike went away. I too had new Beru wires and bosch coils, and new caps rotors and insulators. swapping that coil wire is better than swapping the coils, anf if needed I would just replace the suspect coil with the one you removed.

 

[kubasz]

Spark plugs FR8DC are not the correct ones. These have an internal resistor with 2 or 3k ohm reading. M119 iginiton system is best to be used with non-resistor plugs. You can get them from the dealer with PN 003 159 68 03.

 

[BRABUS124]

Spark plugs FR8DC are not the correct ones. These have an internal resistor with 2 or 3k ohm reading. M119 iginiton system is best to be used with non-resistor plugs. You can get them from the dealer with PN 003 159 68 03.

I'm fully aware of this. I strucle with this every day as a mechanic specially on the M103/104 but the sad thing is. I always buy original mercedes plugs. But these are no longer made without the resistance. So you can only buy the Bosch plugs with resistor nowadays. It's very recent they became out of stock without resistor.

But I'm working on a projekt to modify the rotor 1Kohm. To remove that resistor for the use of plugs with. Resistor.

 

[BRABUS124]

Have you tried swapping the coil wires to see if the problem transferred to the other bank? have you looked at the car running in the dark to see if there are wires sparking from cracked or worn insulation? I had a circumstance where a plug were spiking or shorting to ground and live data showed the voltage spike to the specific cylinder. I replaced the plug (all 8 were from MB replaced with no miles on them) and the spike went away. I too had new Beru wires and bosch coils, and new caps rotors and insulators. swapping that coil wire is better than swapping the coils, anf if needed I would just replace the suspect coil with the one you removed.

So the plugs were all changed to new once. And the first thing you will have to teach any person is that even new parts can be faulty. But acturly did that yes. And ignition is also seen at the end of the 4 plugs jumping out when taken them off. Even though that is not a great way to do it. But as the problem we're so strange and dependant on heat I wouldn't think you would be able to achieve just that same problem with new cables.

I looked in the dark as well. And nothing can be seen and nothing to hear either.
So I were really puzzled about this sudden cut off but still able to find ignition on all 4 that cut out.

So I have a feeling the spark isn't really shorting. Because it's still there. But it might just getting weaker. But as this happens on all 4 at the same time at the same temp. It must be a problem like that cable you say or the coil or futher back. But every single item has been tried changed with no effect.

My money is on that funny facet coil now. Even though another used bosch were tried with the Same ressult.

But I'm looking into the systems as well. The EZL is having data interchange with the LH module on a can bus. I wonder if there's another reason and if the EZL is capable of lowering the out put for the specific coil.

 

[gsxr]

I'm fully aware of this. I strucle with this every day as a mechanic specially on the M103/104 but the sad thing is. I always buy original mercedes plugs. But these are no longer made without the resistance. So you can only buy the Bosch plugs with resistor nowadays. It's very recent they became out of stock without resistor.

Alternatives are available without the resistor. However, this isn't the cause of your problems.

But I'm working on a projekt to modify the rotor 1Kohm. To remove that resistor for the use of plugs with. Resistor.

No need to modify the rotor, just obtain non-resistor plugs.

 

[BRABUS124]

Alternatives are available without the resistor. However, this isn't the cause of your problems.



No need to modify the rotor, just obtain non-resistor plugs.

Here in Denmark sadly you can't get these any more. The plugs are from all brands Bosch Ngk champion denso... All have resistors. I've been searching this alot and I'm kind of geeging it out sort of speak.
So that's why I see a huge need to find a way to get the resistance in total back on track with a modified rotor. It will equal the resistance at 1 spot and have the spark plugs work with resistance. 3 difrent mercedes dealers and aftermarket dealers here have been looking into getting other sparkplug with no resistors. And they all say. Sorry they are no longer made from the brands I mentioned. What you will find laying around at the dealers etc are old stock. Soon they will to sell them with resistors

 

[gsxr]

Have you ordered a set of Genuine Mercedes plugs with the part number @kubasz mentioned above? These do NOT have resistors, and are still available:

Spark Plug 003-159-68-03 | MB OEM Parts

003-159-68-03 - Spark Plug

www.mboemparts.com

Mercedes is NOT supplying this part number as a resistor plug. If someone claims this, I want to see photographic evidence...

Alternately you can use a colder plug found in the 6.0L engines, Bosch F7DCO non-resistor, which was still available from the dealer last time I checked.

 

[Alphasud40]

Have you tried checking for fault codes in the LH, EZL, and the Base module? The only thing that comes to mind is cam to crank correlation. The fact that the engine continues to run on all 8 cylinders with the cam sensor disconnected further supports my theory. Could be broken chain guide causing enough deviation when the engine warms up the EZL just throws its hands up and says no spark to you!

 

[BRABUS124]

Have you tried checking for fault codes in the LH, EZL, and the Base module? The only thing that comes to mind is cam to crank correlation. The fact that the engine continues to run on all 8 cylinders with the cam sensor disconnected further supports my theory. Could be broken chain guide causing enough deviation when the engine warms up the EZL just throws its hands up and says no spark to you!

Yes. I've used flash code reader and there's no codes at the base module nor at the LH module. Making me think there's never been missing fuel or fuel cut as claimed before I got the car.

I beleave strongly that this is ignition related even though by cleaning the caps/rotor from moister thoroughly, I got rid of the no spark at at peoblem to still having spark at the end of the plugs when it hits the 60/65 degrees celsius point. What happens at this temperature is the EZL changes it's ignition angle/setting to a more agresive setting advancing it. Making it harder for a weak ignition to "live" so that's why I see this on all 4 at the same time, remeber these 4 on just 1 coil is not the same as the 1 cyl bank. It controls 2+2 on each side. Making me wonder why it would have something with the timing or chain tensions to do. That would also have grown me a code I beleave in the LH or EZL module, but the error codes I do get every time this happens is code 35, 37, 39, 41 at the EZL ignition module. These codes are not mentioned in every book as that module only has 28 error codes in some of the code listing out there. But when digging deeper in mercedes own books it shows that the EZL of the V8 M119 has more codes and for those 4 codes they all each of them stands for ignition misfire on cyl 1+4+6+7 those 4 comes from the same ign. Coil. Making me beleave again were are defently looking into the ignition.

I've bought an original Bosch coil now for that side (they are not the same/equal part numbers or type for both sides witch kind of supriced me
When you look at the list the owner chbage out, it's kind of the only ring here I can see will be the root cause with this Facet branded coil I don't like to see. The M119 is delicate to what ignition parts and brand you use. But at least he put a new Bosch coil on the other side as well as Bosch parts for the rotor and caps.

 

[BRABUS124]

Have you ordered a set of Genuine Mercedes plugs with the part number @kubasz mentioned above? These do NOT have resistors, and are still available:

Spark Plug 003-159-68-03 | MB OEM Parts

003-159-68-03 - Spark Plug

www.mboemparts.com

Mercedes is NOT supplying this part number as a resistor plug. If someone claims this, I want to see photographic evidence...

Alternately you can use a colder plug found in the 6.0L engines, Bosch F7DCO non-resistor, which was still available from the dealer last time I checked.

My plan were to pull the plugs out to look at the state they are in. If they looks new and clean. I got a note from a dealer here that says Bosch do no longer produce plugs with no resistor so when ordering this specific part number for M119 they have changed from Bosch to another brand made in France "Beru" those are still made with no resistor. I've, dealt with my W124 brabus 3.6-24 for years to get that colder plug as brabus writes their 3.6-24 needs F 7 DC Bosch plugs. And these can't even been bought from Bosch directly nor is it produced for the dealers. You can get the same with resistor though FR 7 DCO now but again that's not what I want.
But for now mercedes has delevering another brand that can deliver a non resistor plug luckely

 

[gsxr]

Yes, the non-resistor plugs from Beru are what you would receive now from the dealership, with the part number referenced above.

F7DCO is only available from the Mercedes dealership, not anywhere else, not from Bosch.

 

[BRABUS124]

Yes, the non-resistor plugs from Beru are what you would receive now from the dealership, with the part number referenced above.

F7DCO is only available from the Mercedes dealership, not anywhere else, not from Bosch.

What part number will you say this has the if I may kindly ask

 

[gsxr]

What part number will you say this has the if I may kindly ask

SOLD - MB genuine F7DCO, made in Gemany...003 159 1603. Reserve yours now | Parts for Sale

SOLD I can get more on a pre-paid basis Price is $55 for 8.... shipped priority mail OE spec for E60 AMG , 6.0 liter cars and performance 5.0 M119

www.500eboard.co

 

[natejgreene9871]

you could try swapping the left and right cam position sensors, see if the issue follows to the other side of the engine. Unlikely but who knows.

How many KM on engine?

 

[BRABUS124]

you could try swapping the left and right cam position sensors, see if the issue follows to the other side of the engine. Unlikely but who knows.

How many KM on engine?

M119 only has 1 cam sensor.
Low milage under 100K

 

[BRABUS124]

So I found the isue. I replaced the ignition coil with a Bosch and now it runs.
Both the customer found the way into the trap. It's replaced with a new one and me replacing it with a used one, and a new bad one. So never think just because it's, new replaced it can't be the error

 

[BRABUS124]

It is really sensitive to primary coil current draw I guess. Old once had less than specified 0.35 Ohm resistor. It had 0.24