Is it time for new engine mounts?

[gerryvz]

Before you order from Naperville check the prices at Maui’s MB of Portland to see if they are cheaper.

The revised OEM Lemforders are gone, I’m afraid. The Febis and Uros are all that is out there and I wouldn’t trust any of them.

Years ago I was not a fan of Lemforder, but it was proven to me that they were identical parts to MB in many cases, so I relented on that.
However they are making stuff in China now (rather than Europe) so Lemforder is for the most part back on my personal parts shit-list.

I knew some time back when the price dropped on the Lemfs that they would be gone in the future. A lot of us bought a “hoard” pair for that reason.

My rule is if your car has 75-80K miles and you have no record of mounts being changed, it’s deferred maintenance.

 

[gerryvz]

You guys tried Importec? Or a certain guy up in San Rafael?

 

[Jlaa]

You guys tried Importec? Or a certain guy up in San Rafael?

Thanks Gerry, I'll give the Enjoyer-of-Racks-of-Lamb a call.

BTW I am slapping myself silly for not getting on the Lemf action while it was still here.
Importec - see below --- sigh....

 

[gerryvz]

I’m surprised to see that Importec carries Üro. I know GSXR loves Importec and says that they carry less of the “crap” while places like AutohauZ have started carrying more of the crap.

That’s ok. You have battery box sheet metal. That’s your retirement someday.

I worry more about Triple Trouble. He’s still new to this hoarding game and is learning the ropes....

 

[Maui]

$204 at mbpartspros but no free shipping.

 

[Jlaa]

That’s ok. You have battery box sheet metal. That’s your retirement someday.

I worry more about Triple Trouble. He’s still new to this hoarding game and is learning the ropes....

You got me. I just said that about slapping myself just to make lowman feel better. I didn't mean it.
Triple Trouble? Who's that? 3xSteven? Or King-of-OCD-2018-Boeing-777?

 

[gerryvz]

Trip or Triple Trouble = 777

Steven = steven-cubed

Jord = the Jordinator

Stevester500e = Sylvester or Captain Obvious or Cam Oiler TubeMan

 

[sprnova]

Here was my experience with getting the correct mounts:

https://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7911&p=145608&viewfull=1#post145608

 

[Jlaa]

Thanks - yeah your thread about procuring ZF branded mounts was one of the invaluable threads I researched. The problem is that no one sells ZF branded w124.036 motor mounts —- cannot even find them on ebay!

 

[sprnova]

I purchased mine from eBay seller "partscontainer." I just looked up the order and they appear to still sell them:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ZF-Engine-...ngine-Mount-/351752579388?hash=item51e616693c

"Interchange part number 6427, 124 240 26 17"

 

[Jlaa]

Thank you!

 

[gerryvz]

Better get on it before another 500EBoarder snakes you !!!

 

[Jlaa]

I ordered twenty. I plan to bathe in them.

 

[gerryvz]

They could make nice tiles for your front walk.

 

[Jlaa]

They could make nice tiles for your front walk.

Hmmmm. Sanded or unsanded grout? Maybe I can use the MB anaerobic sealing compound as a thinset.

 

[gsxr]

Jlaa, please let us know if the eBay mounts are the real deal. If so, they are probably the last remaining stock outside of MB dealerships! (Hoarders, start your engines...)

 

[Jlaa]

Jlaa, please let us know if the eBay mounts are the real deal. If so, they are probably the last remaining stock outside of MB dealerships! (Hoarders, start your engines...)

Seller cancelled the order citing "out of stock".

 

[gsxr]

Seller cancelled the order citing "out of stock".

So, either they didn't have "more than 10 available", or lowman bought their entire inventory.

HEY - if your order was cancelled, why is the eBay listing still active? Still shows 10+ in stock!

I don't know of any current aftermarket source for OEM mounts. Looks like it's back to dealer-only (Naperville, Husker, Portland, etc) to get the good stuff.

 

[Jlaa]

So, either they didn't have "more than 10 available", or lowman bought their entire inventory.

HEY - if your order was cancelled, why is the eBay listing still active? Still shows 10+ in stock!

Yeah, so shady!

 

[gsxr]

On the bright side, you shouldn't have to replace them again for another 10-15 years or more.

https://www.mbpartspros.com/oem-parts/mercedes-benz-front-insulator-1242402617

 

[gerryvz]

It’s OE MB for you, Bucko !!

Plus a second set for your hoard. Pony up!!

 

[maw1124]

Yeah, so shady!

They just saved you from yourself. On these cars, I'm starting to stick more and more with OEM. Someone sneaked a non-OEM trans mount on my 55 that I had a dealer replace less than a year later. It just doesn't make sense, not on big Benzes anyway. Apparently, you now have to specify "OEM" for Indy's. Otherwise, they'll gladly sell you the Chinese stuff for OEM prices, and twice as often.

maw

 

[gerryvz]

That front walkway dream just went "Poof!"

 

[JC220]

This is not disappointing news for my wallet... I was getting itchy fingers to order a few of these

 

[gsxr]

Apparently, you now have to specify "OEM" for Indy's. Otherwise, they'll gladly sell you the Chinese stuff for OEM prices, and twice as often.

Used to be some folks would ask indys to save the old/broken part so they could see it. Now you gotta ask them to save the box the NEW part came in, so you know what they actually installed! (Maybe - assuming they give you the correct box!) I'm certain there are far too many shops that would bill a customer full MB retail (~$600 / pair) for OE mounts while installing $75 worth of Uro, and considering the $500 bonus profit a good day's work.

On a car I previously owned, with excellent indy records, I found at least 2 different items that were billed as OE or OEM but the part installed was neither - and, substantially lower cost/kwality. The PO never knew what they were doing.

Be careful out there.

 

[gerryvz]

I would say that many if not MOST indy shops will be happy to substitute in stuff like Febi and Meyle (usually a half-jump better than URO/etc.) and charge the customer full MB retail for it.

Better shops will definitely refuse to substitute sub-par parts UNLESS THE CUSTOMER SPECIFICALLY SAYS THEY WANT THE CHEAPER PART. Shops I know have told me that they will outline options for customers, (cheap aftermarket, OEM aftermarket when available, and factory MB), and more often than not customers will opt for the cheap aftermarket and tell the shop to use the cheapest parts. It's the whole "don't have two nickels to rub together" syndrome.

You have to remember that most owners don't know the difference / nuances between parts that we collectively know here as enthusiasts. Most customers just want their cars fixed as quickly and cheaply as possible, and they think that all parts are the same no matter who makes them.

I agree that good shops (including the one I used to use in Texas) save the used parts and are happy to show them to the customer when the car is picked up and the repairs paid for.

It is very definitely shady for ANY shop to buy what they know is cheap parts (say, a URO M119 motor mount for $35) and then charge the customer the full $250+ MB retail price for it. Definitely shops out there who do that, and it's one way they are able to honestly stay afloat.

It was funny, I recently took Laura's 2004 Toyota 4Runner into the Annapolis Toyota stealership, because there were three outstanding recalls on it from the past couple of years that needed to be performed. Which they did, and then came back to me with a huge list of "needed repairs". A few of which were as follows:

- Replace PCV valve - $29 (a $6 quality aftermarket part I bought, replaced in 2 mins with a 19mm socket)
- Replace the six spark plugs - $260 (bought 6 Denso plugs, gapped to 0.044", replaced myself in less than an hour)
- Replace coolant - $300 ("no record of replacement", though I'd installed new radiator/coolant 18 months ago)
- Replace brake fluid - $350 ("no record of replacement", I agree that it looks dark and is several years old so I'll do it)
- Replace power steering fluid - $300 ("no record of replacement", I agree that it looks dark and I'll flush/replace)

Granted the stealership would have used Gen-u-whine Toyota parts/fluids, but the costs were unbelieveable for fairly easy tasks. Does Toyota DOT4 Brake fluid really cost 5x more than ATE Typ 200 DOT4? Sheesh.

No wonder why folks don't have two nickels to rub together. And why leasing (everything is taken care of) is so prevalent nowadays.

 

[sprnova]

Maybe?

http://www.europartimports.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=642

http://www.ottocarparts.com/shop/ca...4-034--Saloon--W124--400-E-4-2--124-034-.html

 

[maw1124]

This was a shop that should have (and probably does) know better. But my contact (the owner) wasn't around when I took it in. I didn't mention it to him, but I haven't been back either. Like GVZ says, as enthusiasts we know better. But every other customer? They probably just think, "My [used German performance car] stays in the shop. It's the most unreliable POS I've ever had." without knowing that over the years it's basically been systematically stripped of all the robust parts that made it a German performance car in the first place, replaced with aftermarket trash.

maw

 

[gsxr]

Maybe?

http://www.europartimports.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=642

http://www.ottocarparts.com/shop/ca...4-034--Saloon--W124--400-E-4-2--124-034-.html

First link appears to have 14 in stock, hopefully it's not pulling from the same database as the partscontainer dude on eBay.

 

[Jlaa]

They just saved you from yourself. On these cars, I'm starting to stick more and more with OEM. Someone sneaked a non-OEM trans mount on my 55 that I had a dealer replace less than a year later. It just doesn't make sense, not on big Benzes anyway. Apparently, you now have to specify "OEM" for Indy's. Otherwise, they'll gladly sell you the Chinese stuff for OEM prices, and twice as often.

maw

perhaps a bit of nomenclature clearing up —- when I think of OEM I think of an orig parts manufacturer but the part may not be the same as that that came w the car. For example, Bosch OEM distributor shields, whereas OE Mercedes branded shields were made Doduco. Even if you bought a Doduco shield, it would be OEM and not OE.

 

[maw1124]

perhaps a bit of nomenclature clearing up —- when I think of OEM I think of an orig parts manufacturer but the part may not be the same as that that came w the car. For example, Bosch OEM distributor shields, whereas OE Mercedes branded shields were made Doduco. Even if you bought a Doduco shield, it would be OEM and not OE.

I understand, but I can only speak from my limited experience. I've seen the OEM manufacturer, made for the aftermarket stuff that fits our cars fail VERY quickly, like within a year. I'm generally thinking here, pulleys and mounts. And each time on the 500E, my guys in SRQ have said something to me of the effect of "these are the OE manufacturer, but they're not OE parts. We've noticed a very high failure rate." Meaning the OE manufacturer will make aftermarket parts that cost less and are not as robust as Mercedes spec. I'm told separately it pertains to a high cost resin that goes into OE plastic and rubber that may not be as prevalent in OEM. That part, I don't know.

But that whole "Mercedes spec" thing is what you pay for in a 500E or an AMG. It's not what the car does, it's what the car does while not breaking, that matters.

That's why now I just ask for original equipment parts (OE, not OEM). I don't want an aftermarket part, generally speaking. I want the same thing that came on the car, new, and I don't care if it costs twice as much as the others. In my mind, there's a reason it costs twice as much, and I'm buying that reason. I had to grow into that, though. When I heard enough of, "if it was my car...", or "since you insist on driving your family around the country in it...", then I started to get the message.

"The Best or Nothing"

maw

PS For yours, if it was my car, I'd get the same mount that came on it from the factory if I could. I did, I could tell the difference straight away. And you don't want to do this job again.

 

[gerryvz]

It's an often misunderestimated set of concepts.

These are the definitions I have always gone by:

OE = Original Equipment. [aka "Genuine Mercedes"] Manufacturer-branded part as the one originally supplied with the vehicle, or equivalent/superseded part specified by and available as a branded part from the car's manufacturer. Think Bosch F8DC4 "Germany" (original mfr.) or Beru 14F-8DU4 "France" (equivalent supplier) spark plugs with the MB logo on them.

OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer. The vendor who originally manufactured the part (if known) for the car's manufacturer, which they used to supply the part. OEM can also mean a manufacturer who supplied the part to the car's manufacturer, but perhaps who offers the same or equivalent part under its own brand to the aftermarket (i.e. parts with the MB star ground off; less common these days). Think Bosch F8DC4 spark plugs "Brazil" or "Russia" in Bosch boxes.

Aftermarket = a part supplied by a third-party vendor (which can also be the OEM) that are sold on the free market under the third-party vendor's brand, or reboxed and sold under another brand. Think SGF (which is OEM) flex discs sold in Febi boxes. Vendors such as Uro would also be considered "Aftermarket" although they have nothing to do with MB and never supplied said part to MB.

NOS = New Old Stock. Old OE-branded parts in the original boxes/packaging from the car's manufacturer, often as left-over stock. For non-perishable parts, NOS is often the "Holy Grail" of parts, as early run spare-parts produced at the time the vehicle was originally produced are often better quality/materials than OE parts produced and sold by the car's manufacturer in later years.

What we have discovered is a nuance: that some OEMs offer two distinct lines of parts. Meaning "MB" quality parts which are different and/or better than their "OEM branded" parts sold under their own brand, though functionally equivalent. The Bosch F8DC4 plugs made in Germany vs. Russia/Brazil are examples of this; perhaps also the Bosch M119 distributor caps and rotors.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

Years ago, it used to be the OEM part was identical to the OE part, the primary difference being the OEM had the Star logo ground off. Stuff came off the same manufacturing line, but Star-bellied sneetches went into MB boxes, and non-Star went into the generic OEM box.

I've heard this isn't always the case anymore, as maw explained above. So, it can be tricky figuring out what is worth the cost savings, and what isn't. There's new concern as well that MB might be loosening up their standards in an effort to reduce what they are paying for a part, for some items anyway. For us 124 owners they mostly just let things go NLA and tell us to eat cake, lol.

EDIT: I would adjust Gerry's list above to indicate that "OE" means Genuine Mercedes. Period. For example, the Bosch-branded F8DC4 plugs are OEM, not OE. The OE plugs have the Star logo, and slight differences compared to OEM/aftermarket/whatever F8DC4... and were also produced in different countries.

 

[maw1124]

I think I'll be using Gerry's definitions on this going forward...

But for my Benzes. I'm generally only talking OE. If that's not available, then OEM but the most expensive version (Gerry's "nuance"). I think it was a Lemforder pulley on the 500E that woke me up to this nuance, but I have to say my guys warned me, and played along for science (if it failed, they'd put the new OE one on free, I'd just pay the difference in parts).

For more pedestrian models, who cares? Jokes but not really. If it was a lease trade in I'm dealing with, thats another story. But for limited run once in a generation cars, why bother with anything else?

maw

 

[a777fan]

For more pedestrian models, who cares? Jokes but not really.
maw

Seriously. You’ve got to be a real nutter to think otherwise...





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gsxr]

Seriously. You’ve got to be a real nutter to think otherwise...

I know, right? There's this guy in Seattle right now doing insane things to his 034...

 

[maw1124]

I know, right? There's this guy in Seattle right now doing insane things to his 034...

And who would ever call a W124 V8 “pedestrian”? Any 20+ year old car you’re keeping on the road can’t be “pedestrian” by definition.

maw

 

[gsxr]

And who would ever call a W124 V8 “pedestrian”?

well, there's this ex-Texan currently in Maryland... but he spent quite a bit of time in Portland, which might explain a little.

 

[gerryvz]

Shhhh!! We don’t want to rile up Clark Vader.

 

[Jlaa]

Ha! Look what came by UPS today!!!

 

[gerryvz]

Even better than that battery sheet metal!

Your transformation is now complete.

 

[gsxr]

Ha! Look what came by UPS today!!!

SWEET! What vendor had 'em in stock?

 

[Jlaa]

SWEET! What vendor had 'em in stock?

A very generous and nice lurker here on the 500E board, who shall remain nameless unless he wishes to no longer lurk, had a pair that he no longer needed and offered them to me. This is why I think this community is the best best best in all auto-dom on the Internet. I've paid it forward several times with folks on this board, and various folks also pay it forward w/ me on the receiving end.

 

[Seangbadee]

As Gerry said... more likely to be a shroud alignment issue.

Motor mounts can be checked as shown below. It's a rather unpleasant job, $750 including labor is about right for most shops... just make sure the mounts installed are OE or OEM (Boge/Lemforder) only. There are cheap Chinese mounts out there and you don't want to be re-doing the job in six months...



View attachment 90542

Could you tell me what the differences are between 1242404317 and 1242401917 parts. They are both engine mounts.

 

[gsxr]

Assuming you mean 201-240-43-17 and 124-240-19-17, the latter number supercedes the former.

Note these are 6-cylinder mounts, not V8 mounts.

 

[Seangbadee]

Assuming you mean 201-240-43-17 and 124-240-19-17, the latter number supercedes the former.

Note these are 6-cylinder mounts, not V8 mounts.

View attachment 90543

Thank you for this. It was on the MB website and i got confused.
Thanks again.

 

[gsxr]

Thank you for this. It was on the MB website and i got confused. Thanks again.

AH... I see the problem. That is not a Mercedes website. That is a DEALER website, running on the RevolutionParts eCommerce platform. It IS NOT ALWAYS ACCURATE. It is generally useful (and accurate) for supercessions, meaning if you enter a part number from the EPC and it shows that number was superceded to something different, that is *probably* correct.

In this case, I'm not even sure 1242404317 is a valid part number... it might be, but it doesn't appear in the EPC at all. More likely it was a typo by the RevParts team.

 

[Seangbadee]

As Gerry said... more likely to be a shroud alignment issue.

Motor mounts can be checked as shown below. It's a rather unpleasant job, $750 including labor is about right for most shops... just make sure the mounts installed are OE or OEM (Boge/Lemforder) only. There are cheap Chinese mounts out there and you don't want to be re-doing the job in six months...



View attachment 90542

I can't believe FCP sells this!. Where do I get the originals?

 

[gsxr]

Nuts! I see FCP has removed the Country of Origin on select items, like this Lemforder engine mount. Sad that ZF/Lemf is moving so much manufacturing out of Europe. Their Chinese mount might be ok, but at $27, I dunno. You could give it a try and see how long it lasts. Probably no worse than the Corteco Chinese mount at twice the price. Odd that they show COO for Corteco but not Lemforder.

Only other option I know of would be OE from Naperville at $135/each...

 

[Seangbadee]

Nuts! I see FCP has removed the Country of Origin on select items, like this Lemforder engine mount. Sad that ZF/Lemf is moving so much manufacturing out of Europe. Their Chinese mount might be ok, but at $27, I dunno. You could give it a try and see how long it lasts. Probably no worse than the Corteco Chinese mount at twice the price. Odd that they show COO for Corteco but not Lemforder.

Only other option I know of would be OE from Naperville at $135/each...

It's heartbreaking. I also noticed no COO on the Lemforder, but took a chance on them. The last Corteco mounts i got from Autohauz in 2016 (for my M103 engine), were made in Italy and i used them. This Chinese stuff, I don't know!.
I will return them to FCP and get the OEM from mboem.