M104 Engine Noise

[yao500e]

That generally sounds OK to me. I am not hearing anything in the video that is overly loud or egregious. Sounds like pretty normal M104 noise, to me. Try the heavier oil and see if it calms down that valvetrain noise a bit. I bet it will.

To clartify, WHILE IT IS OK TO USE 0W or 5W engine oils, per the chart I posted, and they are OK to use for all temperature ranges, please notice that for temperatures above 0C / 32F, heavier oils are generally specified. The M104 (as the M117, M103, M119, M120, etc.) generally likes heavier oils whenever possible.

15W-40 diesel-rated oil (which has extra detergents, and which keeps the internals of the engine very clean) is an excellent grade that is right in the middle of the 10W-40 and 20W-50 "sweet spot" for warmer climates where freezing temperatures are not a factor.

If you would like to see the effects of long-term use of 15W-40 diesel-rated motor oil (also rated as acceptable for use in gasoline engines), of the Chevron DELO 400 brand, in an M104, in terms of the cleanliness of the inside of the engine, you can check this forum's M104 Top-End rebuild thread, specifically this post.

Hello @gerryvz

Does the oil need to be mb 229.1 & api sn spec for use on older benz cars?

thanks again.

 

[gsxr]

Does the oil need to be mb 229.1 & api sn spec for use on older benz cars?

Nope.

 

[gerryvz]

Hello @gerryvz

Does the oil need to be mb 229.1 & api sn spec for use on older benz cars?

thanks again.

NO NO NO! API spec doesn’t matter really. Just use a name-brand oil. If you are going with a 15W-40 diesel-rated oil, Shell Rotella-T or Chevron DELO 400 would both be excellent. I purchase the Chevron in a 5-gallon bucket, which I then use to store used oil, for bringing to the county recycling center once or twice a year.

 

[rockstarger]

hello @rockstarger . what year and color C36 do you have? thanks for the reassuring information. I have an E500 which is why i am here but i baby and pamper that car. My C36 has over 100,000 miles and a drivers car that i take are of. i drive it 3 times a week or so. E500 i drive at most 1 time a month. put about 2000 miles a year on her at most.

@gsxr its great to learn new things on m104!

thanks both.

Hi my car paint is blue black 199 and it was delivered in 03/97

 

[yao500e]

Hi my car paint is blue black 199 and it was delivered in 03/97

Let's connect! you got awesome late model C36 with 5 speed. You lucky devil. haha! I'll direct message you. there are probably only 2,500 left on the planet (out of 5,200 totaly production). its cool to connect with C36 folks. @rockstarger

 

[yao500e]

NO NO NO! API spec doesn’t matter really. Just use a name-brand oil. If you are going with a 15W-40 diesel-rated oil, Shell Rotella-T or Chevron DELO 400 would both be excellent. I purchase the Chevron in a 5-gallon bucket, which I then use to store used oil, for bringing to the county recycling center once or twice a year.

awesome. thank you. shell 15w40 oil ordered. @gerryvz

 

[yao500e]

NO NO NO! API spec doesn’t matter really. Just use a name-brand oil. If you are going with a 15W-40 diesel-rated oil, Shell Rotella-T or Chevron DELO 400 would both be excellent. I purchase the Chevron in a 5-gallon bucket, which I then use to store used oil, for bringing to the county recycling center once or twice a year.

15w40 Shell Rotella ordered. excited to give this a go! thank you again @gerryvz

 

[Seangbadee]

That generally sounds OK to me. I am not hearing anything in the video that is overly loud or egregious. Sounds like pretty normal M104 noise, to me. Try the heavier oil and see if it calms down that valvetrain noise a bit. I bet it will.

To clartify, WHILE IT IS OK TO USE 0W or 5W engine oils, per the chart I posted, and they are OK to use for all temperature ranges, please notice that for temperatures above 0C / 32F, heavier oils are generally specified. The M104 (as the M117, M103, M119, M120, etc.) generally likes heavier oils whenever possible.

15W-40 diesel-rated oil (which has extra detergents, and which keeps the internals of the engine very clean) is an excellent grade that is right in the middle of the 10W-40 and 20W-50 "sweet spot" for warmer climates where freezing temperatures are not a factor.

If you would like to see the effects of long-term use of 15W-40 diesel-rated motor oil (also rated as acceptable for use in gasoline engines), of the Chevron DELO 400 brand, in an M104, in terms of the cleanliness of the inside of the engine, you can check this forum's M104 Top-End rebuild thread, specifically this post.

After reading Gerry’s detailed write-up on engine oils for the M104 about four years ago, I decided to take his advice and switched to Delo 15W40. Since then, I’ve used nothing else in my M104 engine—and the results speak for themselves. The inside of my engine, particularly the cylinder head, remains exceptionally clean even after all this time. The journals and camshaft surfaces remain spotless. Following his recommendation has definitely paid off.

 

[nocfn]

Looks factory new!

 

[Seangbadee]

Looks factory new!

Absolutely—it really makes a difference. I change my oil every 3,500 miles, and it shows. This photo gives a closer look at the engine with the tappets removed—even the journals are impressively clean.

 

[gerryvz]

My M104 in the G-wagen looks exactly the same. I've used DELO 400 in it since purchasing it in 2014.

Contrary to popular belief, many Diesel-rated motor oils such as Chevron DELO 400 and Shell Rotella-T **ARE** also rated for use in gasoline engines ... it's just usually in the fine print on the bottle. There is no downside to using these oils in the M104, as long as you are happy with using a "pure dino" oil and changing it every 3,000-5,000 miles. I have always gone 3,000 on my dino oils, including the Brad Penn 20W-50 oil used in my 560SEC since 2010.

The Diesel-rated oils contain more detergents than gas oils, because of the sooty combustion by-products of the Diesel compress-ignite cycle. This works just fine keeping Otto-cycle (gasoline) engines nice and clean on the inside!!

For the "pure synthetic" Group V base stock oil that I use in my E500 (RedLine 15W-50), I only go 5,000 miles.

Interestingly, for our 2024 Lexus LX600, which has a twin-turbo V-6 engine, Lexus specifies 0W-20 "synthetic" oil for the US, and with a 10,000-mile oil change interval (OCI).

We took delivery at the end of May 2024, and I had the oil changed in February 2025 at the 4,000 mile mark. The truck now has 5,800 miles on it, and I took it in for the complimentary "5,000 mile inspection" service last Thursday. I will have the oil changed again at 8,000 miles, and (based on what some owners are saying) will insist on the dealership using 5W-20 or 5W-30 motor oil, as the report are that the slightly heavier oil smooths out the engine's running characteristics.

0W motor oils are 110% only specified because of emissions reasons. I've read plenty of testimonials from experienced mechanics who say to stay away from 0W-anything oils, and to go with a 5W- or 10W- oil instead.

Because our older engines have looser manufacturing tolerances than today's engines, even thicker oils are preferred. A 10W- oil would be the MINIMUM I would ever go with, for an M104, M117 or M119. I will probably stick with the factory specified 5W-40 synthetic oil for my M156 in the E63 AMG.

 

[Seangbadee]

My M104 in the G-wagen looks exactly the same. I've used DELO 400 in it since purchasing it in 2014.

Contrary to popular belief, many Diesel-rated motor oils such as Chevron DELO 400 and Shell Rotella-T **ARE** also rated for use in gasoline engines ... it's just usually in the fine print on the bottle. There is no downside to using these oils in the M104, as long as you are happy with using a "pure dino" oil and changing it every 3,000-5,000 miles. I have always gone 3,000 on my dino oils, including the Brad Penn 20W-50 oil used in my 560SEC since 2010.

The Diesel-rated oils contain more detergents than gas oils, because of the sooty combustion by-products of the Diesel compress-ignite cycle. This works just fine keeping Otto-cycle (gasoline) engines nice and clean on the inside!!

For the "pure synthetic" Group V base stock oil that I use in my E500 (RedLine 15W-50), I only go 5,000 miles.

Interestingly, for our 2024 Lexus LX600, which has a twin-turbo V-6 engine, Lexus specifies 0W-20 "synthetic" oil for the US, and with a 10,000-mile oil change interval (OCI).

We took delivery at the end of May 2024, and I had the oil changed in February 2025 at the 4,000 mile mark. The truck now has 5,800 miles on it, and I took it in for the complimentary "5,000 mile inspection" service last Thursday. I will have the oil changed again at 8,000 miles, and (based on what some owners are saying) will insist on the dealership using 5W-20 or 5W-30 motor oil, as the report are that the slightly heavier oil smooths out the engine's running characteristics.

0W motor oils are 110% only specified because of emissions reasons. I've read plenty of testimonials from experienced mechanics who say to stay away from 0W-anything oils, and to go with a 5W- or 10W- oil instead.

Because our older engines have looser manufacturing tolerances than today's engines, even thicker oils are preferred. A 10W- oil would be the MINIMUM I would ever go with, for an M104, M117 or M119. I will probably stick with the factory specified 5W-40 synthetic oil for my M156 in the E63 AMG.

Thanks, Gerry.

 

[The G320 Driver]

my C36 m104 has that knocking sound. sort of like a diesel car, not as pronounced. it doesn't go away. car drives great. i had the engine rebuilt. port polished. pistons clean, rings cleaned.

this guys C36 in this video knocking sounds seems louder than mine but its similar.

any issues here? thank you

That sounds to me like camshaft chain is overstretched, or chain tensioner is loosing oil, this happens on my a5 3.2 v6. This kind fail happens when you using the recommended oil from the manufacturer like Audi and co. Because the recommended oil is the minimum request for the engines. Never use a long life oil. Because the intervals are on mileage or annually. There for as long you don’t drive 30k(km)or 25k miles annually don’t use it. On my research many people recommend to use higher temperature recovering oil like 10W40 even 50. See Porsche engines they never recommend low specs of oil. It is also depending on your max outside temperature means the thinner the oil as much cold has to be. The hotter on Sommer time the thicker the oil.
Higher value of the oil gives you more stable viscosity the is not loosing the lube mesh at higher temps und engine load.

 

[gerryvz]

It is EXCEEDINGLY RARE for an M104 to have any sort of chain stretch, at any given mileage. Not only is the chain very short on these engines, but they just don't wear out. Perhaps at 500,000 miles.

 

[Nfernandez18379]

Do we think that mine has bad lifter or do I have other problems? It showed up doing this so who knows how long it has been happening. It's a 1995 E320 wagon.

 

[Seangbadee]

Do we think that mine has bad lifter or do I have other problems? It showed up doing this so who knows how long it has been happening. It's a 1995 E320 wagon.

If you're hearing that ticking sound at startup, you're not alone. I had the same issue with my car—it would make the noise for a bit, then quiet down after driving for a while. In my case, it was due to a tappet (or hydraulic lifter) that had likely drained down. Why it happens? Honestly, I’m not an expert. But folks like @gsxr, Gerry, and others chimed in back then, and they were absolutely right—it goes away once the engine gets up to temp.
When my car came back from bodywork and paint, the noise was even louder than before. That’s when I decided to go ahead and replace all the tappets. While I was in there, I figured I might as well do a full top-end refresh.
That said—I’m not saying you need to tear your engine down. Just sharing what worked for me. I’m sure the experts will jump in with solid advice soon.
In the meantime, what oil are you running? Sometimes that plays a bigger role than we think.

 

[Nfernandez18379]

It almost never stops making that noise. It will occasionally be quiet for like a minute or two and then it will start doing that again. To be honest , I have no idea what oil is in it as I haven't changed it in the time I've owned it. I bought the car with the understanding that it only needed some suspension work. I think the head gasket may also be minorly blown so I'll likely address the lifters whenever I go to do that. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't some cam variator or timing chain thing this is my first Mercedes so I'm not overly seasoned with them. The coolant that it showed up with was pretty gross and contained a substantial amount of particulates (it also smelled like onions, no idea why.) I've done a couple of flushes with a rust inhibiting agent just to rule out the possibility of rust contamination from running pure water (left was the one it showed up with far right is what it looked like when last drained).

 

[Seangbadee]

It almost never stops making that noise. It will occasionally be quiet for like a minute or two and then it will start doing that again. To be honest , I have no idea what oil is in it as I haven't changed it in the time I've owned it. I bought the car with the understanding that it only needed some suspension work. I think the head gasket may also be minorly blown so I'll likely address the lifters whenever I go to do that. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't some cam variator or timing chain thing this is my first Mercedes so I'm not overly seasoned with them. The coolant that it showed up with was pretty gross and contained a substantial amount of particulates (it also smelled like onions, no idea why.) I've done a couple of flushes with a rust inhibiting age and just to rule out is the possibility of rust contamination from running pure water (left was the one it showed up with far right is what it looked like when last drained).

I would have an expert on these engines take a closer look at it. With the m104 engine, the timing chain is seldom the culprit.

 

[Nfernandez18379]

I would have an expert on these engines take a closer look at it. With the m104 engine, the timing chain is seldom the culprit.

Unfortunately there aren't too many people in my area that are familiar with these. So I figured asking around here was the next best thing.

 

[Nfernandez18379]

Do we think that mine has bad lifter or do I have other problems? It showed up doing this so who knows how long it has been happening. It's a 1995 E320 wagon.

I ripped the valve cover off and this lifter had a tiny bit of play in it. Does anyone have a good procedure for checking them or any other ideas what the noise could be?

 

[Nfernandez18379]

I ripped the valve cover off and this lifter had a tiny bit of play in it. Does anyone have a good procedure for checking them or any other ideas what the noise could be?

I switched to the heavier grade oil mentioned previously in this thread but it doesn't appear to have helped. There were also some metal shavings in the oil filter. One of the camshaft seems damaged but its on a bits that aren't contacting anything so idk what happened there. I'm hoping the bottom end is undamaged but I haven't pulled the oil pan yet. The cylinder walls and pistons appear undamaged (borescope). Still little in way of a conclusive answer.

 

[Nfernandez18379]

Well the 15w 40 Deisel oil has significantly cut down on the ticking noise after 50 or so miles. I drove it for for about 20 minutes today and it was dead silent for the majority of the time. I did hear some ticking when I pulled back in to my driveway but it was significantly less pronounced than it has been. I'll put a few more miles on it and see if it disappears completely but for the 60 odd dollars it cost me I would consider this a big win. Next on the list is a transmission fluid and filter change. Any recommendations on the fluid I should use? I have a bunch of Dex 3 compatible vavoline but given the oil situation there may be some random ATF that works significantly better.

 

[gerryvz]

Good for using a heavier oil. These engines prefer a 15W-40 or 20W-50 oil, ESPECIALLY with warmer Southern US climates.

I recommend you use a Dexron III compatible ATF, such as Castrol TransMax for European cars. As you mentioned, Valvoline also makes a very good Dex III compatible ATF. These are both "dino" fluids and should be changed (along with the filter) every 25K miles to be safe.

I have used TransMax in many of my current and past 722.3s for decades, with no problems at all.

Factory transmission OCI is 30K miles, but I recommend going a bit less than that. For a filter, a Mann filter is just fine, or get the MB filter. Hengst transmission filters are also excellent, although a bit harder to find than Mann filters.

If your transmission has used a "full synthetic" ATF in the past, then I would stick with the full synthetic, but if you don't know, or previous documentation shows "dino" ATF, I would stick with that.

You will want to replace the transmission pan gasket with every fluid change -- again, just go with the MB gasket. It is cheap and will be guaranteed to be good rubber that will seal properly. Make sure it is installed correctly.

We have a HOW-TO here on the forum for 722.3 transmission fluid changes:

Thread 'HOW-TO: Change Mercedes-Benz 722.3 transmission fluid and filter'

Jun 4, 2010

All,

Here's a very comprehensive set of instructions on how to change the transmission fluid, filter and drain the torque converter of the 722.3 transmission. Specifically these instructions were made for a 560SL, but as our E500E transmissions are so close to the one illustrated, these instructions should be very relevant as well.

I thought it would be a good, illustrated reference for those of you who are interested in doing this job on your own.

Cheers,
Gerry

• gerryvz
• Replies: 133
• Forum: "HOW-TO" Tutorial Articles

 

[britojr]

last year I bought a well negleted 95 320sl with that clicking “diesel” noise when cold. I decided to invest $100 in cheap oil and engine flush before tearing half engine to solve that ugly sound. I got the cheapest 5-w40 and 0-w40 mineral oils, one bottle of liqui moly engine flush and another from sea foam. At the first oil change I removed and cleaned the oil pan. Changed the oil and used half of that solutions for each oil change. I drove 75 miles each time. 300 miles from friday night to sunday night and 4 oil changes later the clicking sound is gone and never came back. This was a nice $100 investment.

 

[Nfernandez18379]

Yeah, unfortunately the reprieve from the ticking was temporary. It's really inconsistent now and just sort of happens randomly. It has also started smoking while idling, so I fear this engine may be in its final stages of life. At this point, it may be better suited as an organ donor for an E320 that has a decent chance at saving. I need to do a little bit more investigation. But I fear it may be time for me to tuck my tail and return to Japanese cars. I appreciate all the help though.

 

[gsxr]

Yeah, unfortunately the reprieve from the ticking was temporary. It's really inconsistent now and just sort of happens randomly. It has also started smoking while idling, so I fear this engine may be in its final stages of life. At this point, it may be better suited as an organ donor for an E320 that has a decent chance at saving. I need to do a little bit more investigation. But I fear it may be time for me to tuck my tail and return to Japanese cars. I appreciate all the help though.

Ouch. What color smoke at idle? The M104 is quite robust (other than its appetite for head gaskets), and it's uncommon to have any significant failures that would require engine replacement.

 

[Nfernandez18379]

Ouch. What color smoke at idle? The M104 is quite robust (other than its appetite for head gaskets), and it's uncommon to have any significant failures that would require engine replacement.

This photo is a little more dramatic than it is at idle because I revved it to get the smoke to show up on camera. It doesn't appear to be losing coolant, which is concerning. I bore scoped the combustion chambers and there was no obvious scoring, so I don't think it's that either. It also has codes
2 oxygen sensor
4 air pump
5 egr clog
6 idle speed
18 camshaft solenoid code (this was my fault I accidently left it unplugged and started the car)
26 upshift delay

If there is anything related to that I may be missing.