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M119 MAX RPM
- Thread starter Markus-MD
- Start date
The @gsxr should be able to help with this, but I think anything over the high 6,000 to 7,000 RPM range would be detrimental to the (stock) engine.
I have seen aftermarket setups raise the limit to the -6,500 RPM area, but that is pushing it (in my opinion) especially for sustained use. 7,000 RPM would be a top ceiling that would really reduce a stock M119 lifespan.
Of course race variants with specialized and lighter valvetrains can go significantly higher.
Given the stock 6,200-6,300 RPM rev limiter I think it would be nearly impossible to get the engine beyond 6300 for any period of time.
Interestingly the M117 has similar limits of -6,000-6,200 RPM redline, but you almost NEVER get to redline on an M117 because it runs out of steam before this. This is because of breathing limitations from the two-valve SOHC design of the cylinder head.
The M119 breathes and pulls all the way up to redline in every gear — a significant improvement.
I have seen aftermarket setups raise the limit to the -6,500 RPM area, but that is pushing it (in my opinion) especially for sustained use. 7,000 RPM would be a top ceiling that would really reduce a stock M119 lifespan.
Of course race variants with specialized and lighter valvetrains can go significantly higher.
Given the stock 6,200-6,300 RPM rev limiter I think it would be nearly impossible to get the engine beyond 6300 for any period of time.
Interestingly the M117 has similar limits of -6,000-6,200 RPM redline, but you almost NEVER get to redline on an M117 because it runs out of steam before this. This is because of breathing limitations from the two-valve SOHC design of the cylinder head.
The M119 breathes and pulls all the way up to redline in every gear — a significant improvement.
The modified EPROM for the 5.0L M119 allows revving to ~6650rpm. I do not know if the LH-SFI programming is capable of supporting higher RPM's or not. I have a feeling the limit of stock components may be in the 7k range? Few people have experimented with this, as it requires aftermarket engine management, then you get to find out what happens on the dyno beyond 6650. The stock, heavy rotating assembly may start to lose power at high RPM's even if airflow was available from ITB's.
If re-tuning the intake to support power at 7k+, likely this will sacrifice low-end and midrange torque, which would make the engines less practical for street use. Revving to 7k+ would only be helpful on a full race engine that spends little time below ~4k.
Search the forum for past discussions on this topic, btw.
If re-tuning the intake to support power at 7k+, likely this will sacrifice low-end and midrange torque, which would make the engines less practical for street use. Revving to 7k+ would only be helpful on a full race engine that spends little time below ~4k.
Search the forum for past discussions on this topic, btw.
ok.Thanks for your answers.The Reason why i ask .My conrod and Pistons that i have are much more lighter as Serie.The Valvetrain i mean is not the Probl.Look too the M104 Engines .not exakt but the same Set up.Spring and Hydros. this good up to 7200.
Yes i know i must balancing the krank etc.but the M156 has an similar setup the is almost the same.and climbs up too 7000plus Gerry is in my mind on the righz way. the Restriction to the Inlet manyfold. is the main Problem.And i drove on my 500 not the LH system.I have the ME1.0.But the same small Throtlle gggrrrhhh
.The group C took m119 too .What was there the max Rev?
Yes i know i must balancing the krank etc.but the M156 has an similar setup the is almost the same.and climbs up too 7000plus Gerry is in my mind on the righz way. the Restriction to the Inlet manyfold. is the main Problem.And i drove on my 500 not the LH system.I have the ME1.0.But the same small Throtlle gggrrrhhh
.The group C took m119 too .What was there the max Rev?
The ME 1.0 ECU has pretty much no ability to be modified. I'm not aware of any tuner that can make changes to the ME 1.0 ECU. You may be limited to the ~6300 limit unless you change to aftermarket ECU / engine management (e.g., Megasquirt).
And yes, beyond ~6600rpm the intake manifold likely becomes the restriction. Porting may help a little, but the entire factory intake tract was designed to create a wide powerband from 2000-6000rpm. Again, if you change this intake design to gain power at 6000-7000 (or higher), you WILL lose low-end torque. Not fun for street driving, but fun on a racetrack.
I think the Group C cars didn't rev much beyond 7000 either. With forced induction, they did not need to. You might find some vintage racing footage in-cockpit that shows the tach, which may show the max RPM on the face of the gauge.
It would be fun to raise the ME 1.0 limit to 7000rpm but I don't know if that is possible. If it can be done, put the car on a dyno and see what happens to the shape of the curve above ~6600rpm. The late (1993-up) M119 with lighter internals and single valve springs pulls well to 6600 but could fall off beyond that due to intake restrictions.
And yes, beyond ~6600rpm the intake manifold likely becomes the restriction. Porting may help a little, but the entire factory intake tract was designed to create a wide powerband from 2000-6000rpm. Again, if you change this intake design to gain power at 6000-7000 (or higher), you WILL lose low-end torque. Not fun for street driving, but fun on a racetrack.
I think the Group C cars didn't rev much beyond 7000 either. With forced induction, they did not need to. You might find some vintage racing footage in-cockpit that shows the tach, which may show the max RPM on the face of the gauge.
It would be fun to raise the ME 1.0 limit to 7000rpm but I don't know if that is possible. If it can be done, put the car on a dyno and see what happens to the shape of the curve above ~6600rpm. The late (1993-up) M119 with lighter internals and single valve springs pulls well to 6600 but could fall off beyond that due to intake restrictions.
In Germany? I have no idea. I'd wild guess €10-15k for only the short block? Probably less if you just buy the parts and have the block machined / assembly balanced, and do the work yourself?
The .960 pistons & rods won't work for your .97x/.98x engine. The crank should work though. Remember you need a 5.0L closed-deck .97x block to bore to 100mm.
And, you cannot put the .960 engine into a 500E. Or at least should not, since CIS-E is a major downgrade from EFI.
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