Re: Forum behavior at its worst
Understood. Understood. And understood. I love the 500E, just not enough to own two, with one "in 2 seater convertible trim with top hydraulic issues, no rarity and no Porsche DNA."
Now, throw in a hand stitched leather dash, pano roof and a 722.6 ('96 or '97, for me the latter), and now you have me thinking. Thoughts above. Everyone I talk to about this says the same as you, Klink -- skip the science project and go for the R230 car. And that's where they lose me. I don't like the "bubble lights" from '03-'08, no hand stitched leather (I like the old world luxury interior, not the plastic blingy bits), and I already have a 55k car to my liking. Which leaves the '09+ SL65 (face lifted, and I am most certainly an AMG freak). But at a mere $115k at 5 yrs old, I just can't do that, for a bunch of reasons, the need for food, water and medicine in poor nations chief among them. Plus I can think of 3 to 5 cars I'd rather have for that money.
I've driven only well sorted R129 600s, and you're right -- they feel almost exactly the same as our .036s to me, which is a bit of a downer. It looks so much different, yet doesn't feel it. You can add 4 cylinders and hand stitched leather, but the extra weight leaves you right where you started in driving dynamics. And for that, the extra carrying cost makes you feel like an idiot. I think the same is true for the 55k vs 65 AMG cars, by the way.
I feel you on the 55k cars being jumpy, which is why I've never modified mine (except for an upgraded intercooler pump). You hit the gas and it damn near jumps out from under you, which is a bit scary in an S class -- the car is too big to be getting away from you like that. It's almost as bad as the M3, which simply has no manners at all except toward the road. But that's performance to me, and how I like my cars -- give me too much of what I want instantly, and I'll throttle back from there. The definition of lavish. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
And this is why I don't mind discussing and comparing other cars on this forum, using the .036 as the benchmark quality performance luxury car for the ages that it is. For me, it sits between an E46 M3 convertible and an '06 S55 AMG, and starts to make a lot of other admittedly great cars seem redundant. For me, that's a real testament, a real wolf in sheep's clothing.
Goo'day Mates!!
maw
Thanks for continuing the conversation! I work with the technical bits all day long, so it is actually this touchy/feely philosophical(?) aspect of the hobby that really blows my skirt up. This is why the technological bits actually exist in the first place.
It is always interesting to me how people can be on identical pages on almost everything, but then have little sniglets of "deal breaker" on some aspects. It is also interesting to me how often these things would appear to be too small to even consider to those not pathologically involved in whatever the subject is, if that makes any sense at all...
If you are saying that you think you would like to own a perfectly optioned R129 V12, I couldn't agree more. I love them to death. For that matter, I love anything with an M120. But then, you seem to kind of talk yourself out of it. I understand completely. Only the smallest of minds are absolutely consistent.
Explain the "skip the science project" expression to me, because any R230 is a science project, so in my mind one would hardly be "skipping" it to get one. I like the bubble lights better, and unlike you would prefer mine
without any "sport" or AMG fitment. The ideal R230 to me is a straight up SL600, no "sport" packages or AMG body kit of any kind, with the standard issue substantial looking 5 spoke 18's. I wouldn't even have the staggered sizes on mine. None of these cars have rear engines, what the hell are you kids thinking with this stuff?!?
But the above is just preference. I'd happily have any 230, and I'd happily have any 129.
Any USA V12 SL of any chassis '95 or newer gets you your French stitched full leather interior if you didn't realize that, but I'm guessing that you did, so I didn't understand your statement
"no hand stitched leather (I like the old world luxury interior, not the plastic blingy bits)"
The 230 plastics are soft touch and very high quality, and most of the silver stuff that MB artfully finished to resemble the finest plastic is in fact, metal. Also, note that the 230 interior componentry in general, but very especially in the door panels is vastly better than the '96 and later 129, which at that time suffered a spectacular downgrade to the ECE recyclable bits. The non-full leather '96 and later 129 door panels are absolutely tragic, with plastic foils that revert to their sticky constituent molecules with a quickness wherever a human has contacted them. And the internal structures of both the standard and full leather ones are made of folded fiberboard parts, all impregnated with and glued together in a most temporary manner with what was then no doubt the most ECE / PC / environmentally friendly / recyclable / workplace safe / water based(?)
not quite a glue. Something synthesized from unicorn farts, just as they are now synthesizing oils from natural gas. It was as effective as you'd imagine, the damn door panels fall apart in your hands as you attempt to remove them for the inevitable window mechanism work. With about 2 careful, frustrating, epoxy fumed hours per door panel the most patient among us can reassemble them before reinstallation. Just infuriating...
I've spent all this time defending the R230 because overall it deserves it. It's Benz at it's best. Yes, I know it's also Benz at it's worst. Think of your all time favorite MB, and tell me that the two weren't almost always inextricably joined.
Now, here's where inconsistency and emotion come in for me. If the Genie offered me either V12 129, or a V12 230, each in my perfectly imagined state of colors, options, etc, I'd have to think about it for a long time. He'd probably get so pissed waiting for me, that he'd rescind the offer and just poof away, just as I was about to ask if he had any 928? 850CSI? 140 coupe? Lancia Flaminia? Citroen SM? 450SLC 5.0 (I'd take a 500SLC if I had to, but it's better with the 3 speed)? 300SEL 4.5? 5 or 6 liter long wheelbase 140 sedan with the full hydro-pneumatic/ADS suspension offered in the ECE? Euro 6.9 with velour and ABS? ANY W100? Ferarri 456M? Maserati 5000? Long wheelbase fintail 300? NSX? Almost any 993 coupe (props to you there Patrick! And that's saying something because I tend to not get soaked over
any car with it's engine in the
wrong place). Well, Ok, I suppose any "4 cam" Porsche coupe will work, as I said, only the smallest minds are truly consistent...
And all that because? I don't really like convertibles. There are tops that I want to see removed, but
none of them are on cars.
How's that for a
truly frightening fright pig bucket list? I know, and that's also a point to all of this. We love the cars we love FIRST, and then we set out to create intellectual justifications for that love. In doing so, we also wind up thinking about them in their fully formed, perfectly developed and idealized conception, instead of how they actually were. It is truly irrational, and completely unnecessary.
The 124 (which I ffing LOVE) is a
prime example. It is now thought of the world over as an exemplar of quality, but it wasn't fully born that way. I won't list it all here guys but these cars were riddled with glaring quality faults for the first three model years or so. Some of it
bad stuff that would have severely damaged brands with less prestige capital to waste. That stuff all got worked through, and now we think of all of these completely and fully as products of the "good old days".
Compared to the 124, the 211 had only a couple of glaring faults, mostly right at introduction, and they were cured almost immediately and permanently with SOFTWARE UPDATES! Done the same day! If one likes 211's this isn't even remembered. If you don't like 211's then it was garbage at the moment of introduction, and it remains garbage now. Both camps are wrong in direct proportion to the extent that they believe their love car to be perfect.
Most of the cars
we love here are pathetic needy POS's to the average Joe, and he may actually be the sane one in this stew.
I was dumbfounded to read the linked passages that prompted this thread in the first place. I was thinking "Holy crap people, they are just cars!" It reminded me of a time where I saw a news report of a shooting death in the parking lot of some dance saloon. As the police where dragging the shooter towards the patrol car, he was screaming to the bystanders "HE SAID MY TRUCK WAS DISCO!"
On that subject, since what we have been doing here hardly seems to be "Forum behavior at it's worst", do any of the grownups here think the later discussion content of this thread should be moved or renamed?
Thanks for listening and for your comments, everyone. (But don't call my E5E "disco". I'll find you...)
