modern seat cover leather incorrect

[John Bicht]

I have now received leather samples from World Upholstery and GAHH for Creme Beige for 1992 400E. The surface texture of the leather is radically different than the existing seats. Roughly the same from each company. Any comments about this?

Does someone make the right stuff?

 

[gsxr]

Really? That is interesting... hadn't heard this before. The factory leather in all my 124's is very smooth. What are your samples like? Can you post a photo?

Otherwise - I'm not sure if there is any way to get factory-identical leather without buying new from MB, if it's still available. Should be 124-910-21-46-8E80 for the bottom and 124-910-49-47-8E80 for the backrest, for cream-beige and NO seat heating. $557 and $786 each, respectively, from parts.com however you would need to call a dealer and have them check stock in Germany, and also make sure the cream color has not been superceded/replaced with parchment, black, or something else. Even if it is available I'm not sure you'd want to spend nearly $3k on new leather for the front seats...!

 

[John Bicht]

Really? That is interesting... hadn't heard this before. The factory leather in all my 124's is very smooth. What are your samples like? Can you post a photo?

Otherwise - I'm not sure if there is any way to get factory-identical leather without buying new from MB, if it's still available. Should be 124-910-21-46-8E80 for the bottom and 124-910-49-47-8E80 for the backrest, for cream-beige and NO seat heating. $557 and $786 each, respectively, from parts.com however you would need to call a dealer and have them check stock in Germany, and also make sure the cream color has not been superceded/replaced with parchment, black, or something else. Even if it is available I'm not sure you'd want to spend nearly $3k on new leather for the front seats...!

I haven't checked with parts.com yet, nor looked at the whole picture but a seat cushion is something like $415 from GAHH. I really only want the driver's set cushion - and I know all the color matching problems but I can get over them. What I can't do is revive the padding that is stitched into the seat cover. I'll pay the $135 extra to get the right leather if necessary!

 

[Christian_K]

WOW thats really entirely different!
But you could get the W124 seat finish by sanding the leather, which still shouldnt be a serious consideration.

 

[samiam44]

Did you send them both the picture and show them the leather color is correct but texture is wrong?

Doesn't suprise me.

 

[chromleiste]

I hope, I can help....

I haven't checked with parts.com yet, nor looked at the whole picture but a seat cushion is something like $415 from GAHH. I really only want the driver's set cushion - and I know all the color matching problems but I can get over them. What I can't do is revive the padding that is stitched into the seat cover. I'll pay the $135 extra to get the right leather if necessary!

Hello John,

I´m a leather dealer from germany. I can deliver over 500 different leather colours and surfaces. You can not order the right colour with a (digital) picture. The colour is everytime wrong! My pictures don´t show the right colour as well.
Is it possible for you, to cut a small piece from under need your seat or back an send it to me in a letter?
Then I see the right colour an can look, if my samples are ok. This is the only way to find the rigt colour and surface.
Where did you come from?
My address:
Ulrich Baldeweg
Lederhandel
Alte Dorfstrasse 5
23883 Sterley
germany

 

[195910]

Hello Ulrich.

The pictures you posted is for W211 / W220 leather.

The Problem is finding leather similar to "Roser Leder" , The same as the W124 and W126, where the leather has a fine grain, very smooth and only dyed from one side.

 

[chromleiste]

Hi,
my pictures are just a sample!
Important is, that I get a small original leather from the colour what John need. Like a size from a stamp. Just in a letter.
These collection are over 15 jears old....
I can deliver all new modern or old leather. But I need a original piece!

 

[195910]

Hi Ulrich,

Do you provide the leather only, or can you provide complete seat cover as well ?

Please post your Ebay website here.

 

[chromleiste]

Hi 195910,

I provite just the leather, specially E500 Limited leather. You know me. www.e500limited-leder.de
People have to find a upholstery in their city.

 

[John Bicht]

Hi,
my pictures are just a sample!
Important is, that I get a small original leather from the colour what John need. Like a size from a stamp. Just in a letter.
These collection are over 15 jears old....
I can deliver all new modern or old leather. But I need a original piece!

Hi Ulrich,

I am inquiring through parts.com whether the cushion cover is still available from Mercedes. Depending on the results I will try and find a small piece to send you.

 

[John Bicht]

I have now received an email from GAHH stating that Cream Beige is only available from them like my sample. I can't imagine using that leather for my seats.

 

[gsxr]

How about GAT (German Auto Tops)? The photo they sent me in early 2009 looked like the correct / smooth leather:

 

[John Bicht]

How about GAT (German Auto Tops)? The photo they sent me in early 2009 looked like the correct / smooth leather:

I spoke to GAT and found out that they use the same leather as World Upholstery. He said that the texture of the leather is heat embossed and that a car seat will lose a lot of the texture from being stretched and heat cycled over the years. ??? But the picture (from gsxr) shows a new cover? and the texture doesn't appear there at all.

Then also the color of my samples isn't right either. GSXR what color did GAT call the picture of yours, cause it looks a lot like my seats.

Then finally the seat cushion cover in cream beige is not available from MB.

 

[gerryvz]

I have a mushroom ("pilz / champignon") driver's seat & armrest cover in my 1989 560SEC that I purchased new from GAHH in 2003. If you are interested, I'd be happy to take photos of them so you can see the grain and color. It would be the same color as used in the early cars (1992/1993?).

I recently cleaned the seats wtih Leatherique (they cleaned up quite nicely after accumulating 10 years of grit and grime) so they are very nice looking at the moment.

The GAHH leather is a very good match, color-wise, with the stock mushroom SEC leather. The main differences are in terms of the thickness and "hardness" of the leather -- the GAHH leather is quite a bit softer (like a Japanese car, perhaps not quite as soft) and less "firm" than the stock leather. The thicker stock hide is just firmer and harder to the touch than the aftermarket stuff. The GAHH hide has a very subtle/soft surface graininess to it that the much smoother/firmer stock hide does not have. WHen the GAHH hide gets dirty (as mushroom leather is prone to do over time) this surface graininess shows the dirt until it's cleaned.

All that said, the GAHH hide has worn quite well and looks just fine in the car, next to the factory leather. It would take very very close examination to determine that the hides were different. If one was to redo both seats with the same hides, it would really be impossible to tell anything at all in terms of the hides not being factory.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[195910]

Correct me if wrong, but the US E500E have the same Interior color and leather as the Euro Spec E500E, Right ?

Everyone is writing a different name for the 275 Interior color: Parchment, Saddle, Mushroom, Creme Beige, Champinion ...!!

 

[gsxr]

Correct me if wrong, but the US E500E have the same Interior color and leather as the Euro Spec E500E, Right ?

It depends on the years. Look in the EPC footnotes for any colored interior parts. The 4-digit color codes are different for pre-facelift and post-facelift with code 275. In the USA it's based on model year, in Europe it's based on VIN/chassis number or option codes.

Everyone is writing a different name for the 275 Interior color: Parchment, Saddle, Mushroom, Creme Beige, Champinion ...!!

The color did change for 274 and 275 pre/post facelift. The color names in Europe are different than in USA.

1986-1993 USA 274 = Palomino
1994-1995 USA 274 = Saddle

1986-1993 USA 275 = Cream-Beige
1994-1995 USA 275 = Parchment

"Mushroom" appears to be a European term (also found in the EPC) that indicates code 275 but does not indicate which actual color is used (i.e., pre/post facelift).

In the photo below, BOTH visors are code 275. But they are obviously NOT the same color.

Meanwhile, Gerry can munch on 'shrooms (or smoke them) while guzzling Champions. I mean champagne. Or that "champignon" stuff, whatever that is. Champ pigs = prized hogs? Go figure.

 

[gerryvz]

Meanwhile, Gerry can munch on 'shrooms (or smoke them) while guzzling Champions. I mean champagne. Or that "champignon" stuff, whatever that is. Champ pigs = prized hogs? Go figure.

Actually, the mushrooms pictured are "real deal" Magic Mushrooms -- the ones that contain the hallucinogen psilocybin. The photo was posted in honor of Dave, who demonstrates he is on mushrooms by his refusal to admit that the term "mushroom / champignon" was indeed a Mercedes-Benz authorized & used moniker.

 

[gsxr]

...in honor of Dave, who demonstrates he is on mushrooms by his refusal to admit that the term "mushroom / champignon" was indeed a Mercedes-Benz authorized & used moniker.

Clarification: I refuse to admit that Mercedes-Benz used either of those terms for any USA-spec, W124 chassis. Those terms may apply in other regions and/or to other chassis.

 

[gerryvz]

Hmmm ... guess I'd better delete the alternate names for paint codes too then ;-) because they weren't used by MBNA ...

 

[gsxr]

Not so fast, Shroom-man! Those other terms apply to specific colors of exterior. This is a different issue.

Can show me MB docs that would clarify which specific European terms are equivalent to Cream-beige and Parchment in other regions? Go ahead and look, I'll wait. Note that even the infamous Fire & Silk brochure uses the term "cream beige", both in English and German. Not mushroom, not champignon, and not saffron.

 

[gerryvz]

Cream beige is primarily a US/English term used by MB to describe this color.

For MB leather:

The term "mushroom" is used by Mercedes-Benz for interior leather color codes 235, 265 and 275, as well as plaid fabric color code 375. The term "pebble" is also used for code 275; and the terms "quartz" and "cream beige" are used interchangeably with "mushroom" for leather code 265. "Mushroom+quartz" is the official term used for leather code 235.

For MB-Tex:

The term "mushroom" is officially used for MB-Tex color codes 105; 145 (a "tex-leather" code); 175; and 195.

For MB cloth upholstery:

The term "mushroom" is officially used for MB cloth upholstery codes 005 ("mushroom+quartz"); 045; and 075.



Cheers,
Gerry

 

[gsxr]

Gerry, I'm not sure if you're still yanking my chain, or if you're not getting it. For the W124 chassis, there cannot be a single name for code 265 as code 265 does not specify one color. That's the whole point. There are two colors, they are different, both are code 265, and use different names. "Mushroom" does not specify which color you are referring to.

 

[gerryvz]

The only point I was trying to make, half in seriousness and half in jest, is that the term "mushroom" has been an official term that Mercedes-Benz has used to describe interior upholstery textile colors, via numerous codes, for decades. Including for the W124.

MB "recycles" codes (whether upholstery, options, or whatever) for different things. So definitely, as with various physical options that cars can have over differnet decades, a single code can have numerous meanings. That's well understood, and I'm not debating that a single code number can signify more than one upholstery color -- even slight variations such as "cream beige" [aka mushroom] and parchment.

However you have debated whether MB ever used the term mushroom. And in fact, it's well documented that they have. Mushroom is used to refer to the earlier (cream beige in the Meimannic language) code 275.

Now, back to full jest mode....

 

[gsxr]

The only point I was trying to make, half in seriousness and half in jest, is that the term "mushroom" has been an official term that Mercedes-Benz has used to describe interior upholstery textile colors, via numerous codes, for decades. Including for the W124.

Never the W124 in the USA or North America. I'm still not convinced it was used in sales or marketing, ever, for the W124 period (anywhere in the world). But I can't say for sure.

However you have debated whether MB ever used the term mushroom. And in fact, it's well documented that they have. Mushroom is used to refer to the earlier (cream beige in the Meimannic language) code 275.

If I had stated that previously, I stand corrected.

 

[195910]

All I can say is.... Gerry has been spending too much time in Amsterdam. He flies to work now with magic wings instead driving the 560.

 

[DerFuror]

"Parchment? or Cream Beige? Saddle? or Palomino? Mushroom or Champignon?...It's all so confusing here in Wunderland!

Thank God my car interior is just BLACK!"

 

[gerryvz]

Hey, don't even get me STARTED about my R107's GAHH Palomino interior ..... or is that SADDLE ?!?!?

Speaking of that, it's time to hop in the ol' 107 and head home, top down !!

 

[gsxr]

"Parchment? or Cream Beige? Saddle? or Palomino? Mushroom or Champignon?...It's all so confusing here in Wunderland!

You forgot "Saffron".

Thank God my car interior is just BLACK!"

Amen to that... black or gray makes things a lot less complicated, especially with Gerry "Musrhoom" VZ around!

 

[John Bicht]

My 1992 400E is color code 265 for the cream beige interior.

For what it is worth...

The leather in the original seats reminds me of the Connolly Hide that was used in any high grade English car back in the 50's through 70's at least - Rolls, Jaguar, excuse me mentioning them but the first great car I knew was my father's Brand New XK 140 Drop-head - and it had the same leather.

I suspect that the leather tanners aren't around anymore. That also would account for earlier work by GAHH and the like, being very original looking.

 

[gerryvz]

There is a great post about MB leather here: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?788-About-Roser-leather

And another great post about MB leather here: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?763-designo-leather&p=3609&viewfull=1#post3609

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[John Bicht]

Gerry thanks very much for the Roser leather stuff. Do you think - cause I couldn't quite get this from the threads - that a 92 MB would be Roser leather?

The other day I spoke to John at German Auto Tops. He told me a few things. First was that they use the same supplier for leather as World Upholstery. So a sample would be roughly identical. Then regarding the texture he said that it is heat embossed and that being stretched and heated over the years much of the texture would disappear. He said try a heat gun on the samples.

I looked at the GAHH sample again - it is much closer to my Cream Beige than the World Upholstery sample - and went into the back of the car. I found all sorts of colors of the leather and all sorts of texture. Some of it matched the GAHH sample completely!! Visually. Not sure of stiffness, a hard thing to figure out without a loose piece of the original leather. I then tried a heat gun on half the sample and indeed it took away half the texture.

So what does it all mean? I don't know yet, but I though I would keep you all posted.

 

[gerryvz]

I don't know whether MB used Roser leather for all of its vehicles or not. My best guess is that it did not, but I could be wrong on this. I think on its older cars (1950s, 1960s and into the early 1970s) that they did use Roser leather exclusively, though.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[John Bicht]

More news from the battle field. The spring frame which is the base for regular and sport seats is no longer available! There are none in the world. The standard seat cushion cover in leather in any of the colors which might be relatively dyed to match cream beige is no longer available.

 

[samiam44]

NLA for the seat frame or zero in inventory?

 

[John Bicht]

I am told NLA.