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Noise knocking m119
- Thread starter 4451533
- Start date
What does your oil pressure gauge read when it is running?
Whilst it sure does sound like an internal engine noise do also run the engine for max 10 seconds without the accessory belt and see if it is still there.
If so then it is something to do with pistons or valves etc most likely.
Can you try to locate the source of the noise as close as possible? Narrow it down to front middle or rear of block and a cylinder ideally.
Have you removed the cam covers and looked over the cams and lifters for damage?
Whilst it sure does sound like an internal engine noise do also run the engine for max 10 seconds without the accessory belt and see if it is still there.
If so then it is something to do with pistons or valves etc most likely.
Can you try to locate the source of the noise as close as possible? Narrow it down to front middle or rear of block and a cylinder ideally.
Have you removed the cam covers and looked over the cams and lifters for damage?
That sounds bad. I agree with @JC220, sounds like valvetrain or bottom end. What happens if you disconnect one spark plug (or fuel injector) at a time, does the noise get quieter when a particular cylinder is disabled?
It would also help if you shared background info - when was the engine last running perfectly, what went wrong, what repairs were done, etc.
It would also help if you shared background info - when was the engine last running perfectly, what went wrong, what repairs were done, etc.
The engine just rebuilt, I replaced all intake valves, top and in head timing guide rails. I drove approx 400 miles and it was very smooth drive. Now I have this noise.
I have checked the top timing rails, and I have not seen any bad thing. The oil tubers are metal made
I have checked the top timing rails, and I have not seen any bad thing. The oil tubers are metal made
Is there any misfiring from exhaust etc?
Do GSXRs check of disabling injector at a time.
Also pull the oil filter and very carefully inspect for metal particals.
Just sounds too loud to be a lifter.....
This sound reminds me of my issue a year ago - don't want to scare but I had two side rails broken and there were pieces all over the timing case and valve covers. What is different here is that you can hear the voice immediately when you turn on the engine. In my case it I was only able to hear it when gear was engaged. As a refence my video on youtube
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Sooo... more background info, why did you rebuild the top-end, why did it need new intake valves? These are not common issues with the M119.
Really strange it ran great for 400 miles afterwards, then acted up. Wild guessing here, but I wonder if debris entered an oil passage and caused oil starvation to something, which is now announcing how unhappy it is.
If the noise is reduced when disabling a cylinder, it's bottom end. If there's no change with any cylinder disabled, it may be top end.
Dave you think exactly like me!Sooo... more background info, why did you rebuild the top-end, why did it need new intake valves? These are not common issues with the M119.
Really strange it ran great for 400 miles afterwards, then acted up. Wild guessing here, but I wonder if debris entered an oil passage and caused oil starvation to something, which is now announcing how unhappy it is.
If the noise is reduced when disabling a cylinder, it's bottom end. If there's no change with any cylinder disabled, it may be top end.
I would have thought the valves could be ground by a machine shop even if pitted. So one or more must have been bent.... I would guess could be wrong.
To the OP, did you re assemble the heads or the machine shop? How certain can you be that all valve keepers were correctly installed?
Again it's very hard to diagnose the car by interwebs but I do suspect something mechanical going on. Don't rev or drive the car and I do hope I am wrong and it is something simple.
To avoid stripping the engine get yourself a small cheap USB endoscope from fleabay.
You can pull the lower sump pan and get right up into each bore etc from below.
And a look see into each cylinder will be very important now I think. Be nice to rule out valves hitting pistons.
Well I removed the oil sump and I found some timing rails particles.. I replaced all upper and head timing rails recently..
Its can be the old ones or I have a new journey with the crankcase one?
Next weekend I am going to remove the camshafts and inspect the new rails and the crankcase timing rail
Its can be the old ones or I have a new journey with the crankcase one?
Next weekend I am going to remove the camshafts and inspect the new rails and the crankcase timing rail
Yes but I cleaned the oil sump one month ago during the timing rails replacment..
Your new rails would have been brown?
Old ones are usually discoloured black. So if your chunks are black and not fresh brown colour then likely old and were resting somewhere behind the timing cover and since fell / washed down into sump
If you cleaned out the sump, and more debris appeared... either it was old debris lodged somewhere in the timing cover cavities, OR another rail has failed. As @JC220 said, new ones are a light brown, old are dark brown or black.
The long/curved banana rail can be replaced without pulling the timing cover, but the other one down deep on the driver side requires pulling the timing cover if it has broken (don't think I've ever seen someone report this rail failing, but there's always a first time.)
The long/curved banana rail can be replaced without pulling the timing cover, but the other one down deep on the driver side requires pulling the timing cover if it has broken (don't think I've ever seen someone report this rail failing, but there's always a first time.)
Have you removed and inspected below both valve covers yet?
Also - get yourself another oil filter and pull that one as soon as possible to check for metal glitter
It just sounds too loud to be just a lifter in your video unless it has completely collapsed and not pumping up maybe it still could be. Wil be hard to tell until you carry out borescope etc to see what is going on. If no glitter in oil and no visible damage within the cylinders or piston tops then it has to be a really bad lifter.
I also wonder could the heads being off dislodged dirt which has now blocked up an oil gallery and starving some of the lifters
I also wonder could the heads being off dislodged dirt which has now blocked up an oil gallery and starving some of the lifters
I don't think so - a bad lifter would make a racket but if replaced early enough shouldn't damage anything else.
A broken valve spring is a whole other story that could jamb a lifter I guess but bigger problem is does the valve get bent or worse get hit by a piston.
More inspections are required without that this is really just guessing unfortunately
I don't see how that noise is caused by the broken chain rail. If you look at his other videos, he rebuilt the entire engine, and had severe bearing wear.
Yeah, and I don't buy his explanation. He's saying what you want to hear, not necessarily what actually caused the noise. Also, note that is the early tall-deck engine with different chain rail locations / design.
@JC220, what do you think of that video series?
It looks like that car may have had broken timing rails. But I'm taking it that the OP has installed new ones and had also already visually verified all of them as still being fully intact in his engine.
Does the noise appear to come from right behind the timing cover?
Well.. this is the noise cause.. but the question how to remove it?? This timing chain piece is stucks deep in the timing chain and the middle gear.. any idea how to remove it? I thought to heat a wire and try to melt it and pull it…
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Can you post clearer photos of the bits you are finding please? Were they lodged up behind the front timing cover but now discovered?
For ease of reference this is a photo of one of my m119s inside lower timing cover. Small bits can hide up there but if I am replacing guides I always make sure I have all old bits out before running the engine.
For ease of reference this is a photo of one of my m119s inside lower timing cover. Small bits can hide up there but if I am replacing guides I always make sure I have all old bits out before running the engine.
