Option code 957 on a 1991 300TE with M104?

[scatsob]

Hello all. I was pointed to the 500E board for the knowledge here. Looking to buy a 300TE with the options in the pictures and am just curious what the AMG Technology Package actually consists of? The internet has failed me on this one...pictures of the car attached as well, still waiting on a picture of the engine bay from the seller.

 

[bb1]

In my eyes it looks like a normal 300TE, Original it had the AMG Body Style.. but now:
- Frontskirt is not a AMG Version for MOPF1 build 91-03
- Sideskirts are Missing
- Wheels are way to new
- Taillights are cheap ones from China
- Hood and Headlights are changed to the later MOPF2 look..
Why?
- Front Damage?!
- and there is no AMG Engine Package in your DataCard!

 

[scatsob]

Thank you for the reply! Bummed that it seems to have so many issues. As for the amg engine package, I can’t find that on any of the code lists. The engine wouldn’t be part of the technology package?

 

[TerryA]

Nice looking TE. Would that be a Sportline?

Need more pics & info.

 

[MB V8]

Nice looking wagon! One question. The seller has the car advertised as having the AMG Technology package?

One good thing I noticed. It doesn't look like it has 4matic. That system can be a pain if it goes out and on 20+ year old cars, it certainly can.

How many miles on the car?

 

[scatsob]

It’s got 190k km, so no spring chicken. The seller lists it as an AMG but is not very descriptive. I should have a picture of what’s under the bonnet tomorrow.

 

[gsxr]

Um. That car was built in 1991, and if it did have an AMG package from the factory, there should not be a code 957 in the original datacard. Code 957 didn't start appearing until around the facelift time period.

You didn't attach the full datacard (or VIN) so it's hard to confirm with the limited info. Datacard indicates this was mostly a Sportline model, with Sport seats, steering wheel, wheels, and suspension. Sadly, most of those items are no longer on the car.

 

[scatsob]

Sorry, VIN is WDB1240911F179482. Here is a data card a member on benzworld obtained.

 

[gsxr]

OK, so the datacard shows both Sportline package (951) which includes the stuff mentioned previously, and also AMG package (957) which SHOULD indicate an AMG engine. Link to datacard:

https://www.lastvin.com/vin/rjKDXd4O7LbApN38B

This could mean the car was upgraded by AMG post-delivery, and AMG/MB edited the datacard to add the code 957. If the engine is the period-correct AMG, it's likely a 3.4L with CIS injection. Shame all the other Sportline stuff (and AMG body kit) is gone. Neat car, but I have no clue what it's worth.

 

[scatsob]

If I end up buying it I might swap the correct parts off my other TE (hood, front and rear lights), try to source the correct body kit parts, and have it repainted. That should just about bring it back to stock. Then probably but some EVO 2 wheels on it because I think they are the best looking wheels of the period.

 

[2phast]

This is a odd one. The 957 cars were 94/95, previous to that time frame, you could order AMG items ala-carte and for model years 92-93, these AMG items would be installed on a new vehicle and the options encoded into the VIN. Prior to 92, this was still possible but the options were not encoded into the VIN, so you would need a invoice to prove these options were installed at the factory.

Also, 957 code vehicles won't have the code 772, as it would be an overlap to code 957. Due to the build of the vehicle the suspect code here is 957, either its a error or like Dave has already mentioned, the car could of been sent back to AMG for a full technology package conversion and the data card was updated. This would be a pretty rare thing to happen but it is possible.

I see a 300TE that has a front end conversion from 94/95, 2000 era wheels, no Gen II AMG body kit, aftermarket exhaust, non factory emblem on the hatch, Sportline option and a manual transmission. The manual transmission is also another odd item, you wouldn't see this on a code 957 vehicle, which might indicate someone did a conversion at some point.

Comes down to the engine though, if it was converted, there should be signs that this was converted, if its a M103, the increase would probably of been to 3.2l and this might be the case due to the 3.2l emblem on the hatch. If its a CIS M104, the displacement would of been 3.4l. You really need to get some pictures of the engine bay to see if there is any evidence of a AMG conversion.

 

[outrbnks]

Yea, I had picked up his post on another forum and asked him to post here, knew you guys would have more info than anyone else.

To bad it's been modified along the way, if it's genuine, it would be worth more.

Question, the data card says Bornite, but these pictures look closer to one of the charcoal colors.

Any opinions on what that color might be?

PS: like the manual shift as well, must be a fun car to drive...

 

[ace10]

Just a suggestion...

With so many questions about this particular car, might I suggest (if you haven't done so already) doing some sue diligence on the the VIN with respect to it being actually from this vehicle?

If I'm following the situation correctly, the seller has provided the VIN and a couple of photos.

Request clear photos of the VIN plates on the dash, door jamb and radiator support. Matched to a clear copy of the appropriate ownership document(s).

Validate the most basic element of any potential car purchase.

 

[MB V8]

I just ran across a link to a 300TE AMG wagon in another post. It looks fairly different than the wagon you've posted. It was a wagon listed for sale in Japan. Let me see if I can find it again. I think it was in the post titled "W124 Appeciation".

 

[scatsob]

This is a odd one. The 957 cars were 94/95, previous to that time frame, you could order AMG items ala-carte and for model years 92-93, these AMG items would be installed on a new vehicle and the options encoded into the VIN. Prior to 92, this was still possible but the options were not encoded into the VIN, so you would need a invoice to prove these options were installed at the factory.

Also, 957 code vehicles won't have the code 772, as it would be an overlap to code 957. Due to the build of the vehicle the suspect code here is 957, either its a error or like Dave has already mentioned, the car could of been sent back to AMG for a full technology package conversion and the data card was updated. This would be a pretty rare thing to happen but it is possible.

I see a 300TE that has a front end conversion from 94/95, 2000 era wheels, no Gen II AMG body kit, aftermarket exhaust, non factory emblem on the hatch, Sportline option and a manual transmission. The manual transmission is also another odd item, you wouldn't see this on a code 957 vehicle, which might indicate someone did a conversion at some point.

Comes down to the engine though, if it was converted, there should be signs that this was converted, if its a M103, the increase would probably of been to 3.2l and this might be the case due to the 3.2l emblem on the hatch. If its a CIS M104, the displacement would of been 3.4l. You really need to get some pictures of the engine bay to see if there is any evidence of a AMG conversion.

I understand all your points but if it’s in the data card how could the things mentioned not be installed at the factory?

The reason I am particularly drawn to this car is because it’s a manual wagon, my two favorite things together in one car. The cloth interior and 7 seats is icing on the cake. Hoping to have pictures of the engine bay today

 

[gerryvz]

You are going off of a data card / VIN that was supplied by a seller.

There is a lot of question on this car based on several factors that people have outlined above. You need to have caution and you need to verify that the car is indeed what it is.

You need, as ace says, to get photos of the actual VIN on the car, in multiple places. That way you can confirm the car's VIN with your own data card search via the DataMB.com web site. This should give you an added level of assurance that the car is real.

When you have definitely established that this car is legitimate, then it perhaps will make the other questions easier to answer. DO NOT trust Benzworld people, as there is a high likelihood that there are uninformed people there who will give you incorrect information, and bad advice.

Have you asked the seller about the car's history and modifications?

 

[scatsob]

Here is the last inspection document showing the same vin. Still waiting on the pictures .

 

[gsxr]

I understand all your points but if it’s in the data card how could the things mentioned not be installed at the factory?

In theory, all those items may have been installed at the factory prior to delivery, EXCEPT the code 957 which essentially did not exist in 1991. But a lot of the stuff is now gone, and will be difficult to replace (the AMG body kit is NLA new, but you could get replica fiberglass stuff).

Don't forget to ask for interior photos of the seats to confirm they are still the original Sportlines. Get pics of front & rear.

I agree the photos make it look like Pearl Black, not Bornite... better photos of the exterior would be nice too.

How far away is the car? Can you just go see it in person?

 

[scatsob]

Here are the pictures the seller sent me. Unfortunately no AMG on the air box cover, though if it is an AMG car of that year would it have one? I am now waiting on a picture of the engine number on the block hoping it has an AMG stamp like the one in the last picture. It does look like someone went to town with AMG crap off eBay...

Moderator edit: The AMG engine number photo shown below is NOT from the car being discussed! It is a "sample" photo showing what an AMG engine serial number / stamping looks like. Actual photo of engine serial is in post #27 below, and is a stock engine... the original AMG engine has been removed.

 

[gsxr]

That info does help. It confirms VIN and color code, and the AMG stamp on the block indicates M104 3.4L. Strange there are no AMG decals in the engine compartment, or airbox logo either.

 

[ace10]

The second pic shows both the radiator support and the right fender in frame.

Looks like a color change to me.

 

[gsxr]

The second pic shows both the radiator support and the right fender in frame. Looks like a color change to me.

The photos are still lousy. I can't tell if the exterior is Bornite or not. If it's a color change... that's downright criminal.

 

[2phast]

The AMG emblem in the grill and the stick on plaque on the console are EBay items.

Agree with Dave, odd that there are no indicators the motor was modified. Normally, a secondary air intake hose is added but I have seen 3.4l motors both with and without. Along with the secondary air intake would be the AMG emblem on airbox and additional AMG decals to indicate engine displacement, spark plugs to use etc.

Good thing the seller found the AMG block stamp and provided a picture, the other AMG engine details can be faked (seen it before) and the block stamp is only way to know for sure.

Although I have not seen a Sportline Package on a TE before, those seats don't look like Sportline seats to me. I know the Sportline package on a CE does not get a seat upgrade only the four door.

Pity many of the original items are gone

 

[gsxr]

Although I have not seen a Sportline Package on a TE before, those seats don't look like Sportline seats to me. I know the Sportline package on a CE does not get a seat upgrade only the four door.

I've seen factory Sportline wagons (not available in USA), but sometimes only with the front Sportline seats. I've seen a couple with rear Sportline seats (second row only) but those are super rare. I'm not familiar enough with the velour/Karo seats to say if those are proper Sportline seats or not.

It's possible that AMG could have replaced the engine with a different serial during the 3.4L upgrade, but I don't know if that is plausible.

 

[gsxr]

AFAIK... 4MATIC was not offered with M104 engines on the 124 chassis. Not an issue for this particular unicorn.

 

[2phast]

It's possible that AMG could have replaced the engine with a different serial during the 3.4L upgrade, but I don't know if that is plausible.

It is. For example, the W210 E60. This car starts out as a E50, if you purchase the E60 upgrade, the motor is swapped out, not converted to 6.0l.

Back in the day, you could order 3.2l, 3.4l, 3.6l, 4.2l, 5.0l and 6.0l motors (those are the ones I remember, might be a few more). So there are quite a few AMG vehicles floating around with crate motors in them. Of course thats not to say that AMG didn't pull motors and build them out.

 

[scatsob]

Well bad news on the motor, finally got a picture of the area typically marked by AMG for the 3.4's and nothing. I am assuming there was no other place they marked these engines?

 

[gsxr]

Well bad news on the motor, finally got a picture of the area typically marked by AMG for the 3.4's and nothing. I am assuming there was no other place they marked these engines?

Well, the serial number in that photo doesn't match the datacard, so additional research would be needed. It may still be an AMG motor but at this point I don't know how to prove it without finding an AMG stamp somewhere on the block.

 

[scatsob]

Yeah, probably not going to happen unfortunately. And the condition of the block has me worried as to the condition of the rest of the undercarriage. Here is a picture of the TE-24 manual I own and you could eat off it by comparison. The search will continue. Thank you to everyone who helped out. I love the brutal honesty of the board .

 

[gerryvz]

I had an answer prepared for you yesterday, but deleted it once I realized that the photo of the AMG stamped block was a sample photo, not the actual photo of the car's block. I had pretty strong suspicions from the get-go (and especially when I saw 2phast's commentary about the eBay AMG "parts") that this car was just a tarted-up pedestrian Euro model.

Pity, honestly. Normally these things are too good to be true, and you really need documentation to prove the provenance. This is getting more and more important as time goes by, and the pre-merger AMG cars are getting more valuable and in some cases skyrocketing.

You would have seen more stickers and/or AMG badges under the hood I think if it was a real one. Nobody would remove the "real" stuff willingly.

 

[gsxr]

Well... the estate was tarted up from the factory, with lots of cool options, and a rare color combo. But sadly most of the tart (and, value) is gone.

The AMG engine, and code 957, is an entirely separate mystery. It might be an AMG motor, it might not. I agree that the lack of decals is odd. But I don't know what AMG did back in 1991 - did they have all the fancy decals that early? Rik?

 

[2phast]

AMG used decals/emblems all the way back into the 70's.

Here are a couple of examples of early M104 CIS cars, both with and without the secondary air intake.

Also a picture of early AMG VIN plate.

Pictures of AMG decal location, early M103

Pre 92 vehicles will not have a ///AMG logo anywhere, as it was not used till 92. On the other hand, its not uncommon on 92+ vehicles to have a combination of new/old logos.

AMG factory window sticker.

AMG of Japan had many more decals and more variations, also, all AMG of Japan cars had their own VIN plate. To top it off, there are a ton of fake emblems and decals available via the internet and not just "fake" in that they are copies of real items, I mean fake as in never used on any cars from AMG of Germany or AMG of Japan. I have a collection of those photos as well.

 

[2phast]

Hmm, I must of mis-read your original post, as I assumed the block stamp picture you provided was the actual stamp of the engine. No block stamp, no motor.

Of course, early AMG cars could be ordered ala-carte and I have seen full factory built AMG cars with all the options EXCEPT the motor. See the VIN break down below on this 1992 model.

VIN WDB1240311B823769
Model 300 E-24, AMG 300 E 3.4
Chassis 1240311B823769
Engine 104980 12 041713
Transmission 722359 03 756637
Order 0 2 227 02294
Lights BOSCH
Wiper BOSCH
Cab 02128
Delivery date 09.09.92
Dealer Nuernberg branch (227)
Interior leather black / anthracite (271)
Paint
199 metallic blue-black (с 01.01.1983)
Options
221 left front seat, electrically adjustable (с 01.11.1978)
222 right front seat, electrically adjustable (с 01.11.1978)
243 sports seats, front and rear (с 01.12.1986)
260 elimination of model designation on rear lid (с 01.05.1968)
281 trunk set, (280 SL)
steering wheel with sports design (390 mm dia.) and gearshift lever in leather trim (с 01.05.1990)
steering wheel (390 mm) with sports design (с 01.03.1989)
291 airbag for front passenger
airbag for driver and front passenger (с 01.07.1987 по 30.09.1993)
airbag for driver and front passenger (if driver airbag standard - then only for passenger)
300 storage box in front tray (с 01.05.1988)
363
412 electric sliding roof with tilting device (с 01.07.1983)
420 automatic transmission, floor shift (с 01.01.1963)
430 headrests in the rear (с 01.01.1977)
471 acceleration skid control (ASR) (с 01.07.1984)
531 automatic antenna (с 01.01.1963)
543 sun visor with vanity mirror, illuminated, left and right (с 01.11.1978)
585 Behr air conditioner and electric window lifters (front doors) (с 01.04.1970)
590 heat-insulating glass, all-around, heated rear window pane (laminated glass), Germany
green heat-insulating glass all round, heated rear window, laminated safety glass - Germany (с 01.01.1972)
620 emission control system
vehicles with catalyst technique (с 01.03.1985)
645 M+S tires (с 01.10.1963)
653 sports chassis with 8-hole light alloy rims (с 01.01.1990)
662 20 liters of fuel (с 01.03.1986 по 30.06.1993)
682 fire extinguisher (с 01.04.1970)
731 wood trim, burred walnut root (с 01.08.1980)
751 Becker radio Grand Prix 2000 vk RDS (с 01.06.1990 по 31.03.1994)
772 amg styling package - front spoiler, side skirts and rear apron (с 02.01.1992)
773 3-piece rear spoiler (с 01.01.1992 по 30.09.1996)
775 radiator grill painted as bodywork (с 01.01.1992 по 28.02.1993)
777 rear muffler in amg design (с 01.01.1992)
779 AMG rims, inner section in mb199 blue black metallic (с 01.01.1992 по 28.02.1993)
AMG sports suspension with 4 AMG light alloy rims and wide tires
781 7.5 x 16 et37 205/55, 1-piece (с 01.01.1978)
873 seat heater for left and right front seats (с 01.02.1984)

 

[weide1]

Maybe it's this AMG engineering package for VIN WDB1240911F179482? 172 kW instead of factory 162 kW.
Too bad i don't have complete VIN.

 

[osssie]

I bought this car in Spain last week