OWNER - Jelmer

[Jelmer]

I'll ask the shop to do the small dent as soon as the insurance ball gets rolling. Not that you mentioned it, I can't stop looking at it!

what does the switch on the ac panel that looks like a tire do?

Winter mode for the ASR. Should allow slightly more wheelspin before the ASR kicks in, especially for snow chains. Can't say it seems to matter when I tested it last year, though (but that was without the snow chains): as soon as there's wheelspin, ASR still kicks in :-/

 

[gerryvz]

I am sorry to say this but I think it's very important to have the shop carefully check for damage underneath the bumper -- I am very afraid that there will be more, invisible damage when the bumper comes off...

 

[Zuffenhausen]

I'll ask the shop to do the small dent as soon as the insurance ball gets rolling. Not that you mentioned it, I can't stop looking at it!


Winter mode for the ASR. Should allow slightly more wheelspin before the ASR kicks in, especially for snow chains. Can't say it seems to matter when I tested it last year, though (but that was without the snow chains): as soon as there's wheelspin, ASR still kicks in :-/

I have it one my car and had no clue what it was for. ty

 

[Jelmer]

I am sorry to say this but I think it's very important to have the shop carefully check for damage underneath the bumper -- I am very afraid that there will be more, invisible damage when the bumper comes off...

Thanks for the tip, I will keep this in mind. *crosses fingers*

 

[edcarls]

... carefully check for damage underneath the bumper -- I am very afraid that there will be more, invisible damage when the bumper comes off...

I agree. The bumper is mounted to the body's crumple zone, and in my experience in a front and back collision on a W124, the body's crumple zone absorbs most of the impact. Meaning, the bumper may look intact because the plastic bumper cover bounces back to shape and the body remain crumpled.

Don't let the adjuster/or repair shop give you an "eyeball estimate", remove the bumper.

Good Luck.

 

[gsxr]

Oh, and yeah Arnt, I think that's the dude I used as an avatar. What a weirdo

That's an understatement...!

 

[gsxr]

is there a 160 degree (70°C) t-stat available for a 036?

Not that I'm aware of, and it would be rather useless anyway. All it would do is make the engine heat up slower. If your temps are going over 100C, a lower temp t-stat won't do anything.

Winter mode for the ASR. Should allow slightly more wheelspin before the ASR kicks in, especially for snow chains. Can't say it seems to matter when I tested it last year, though (but that was without the snow chains): as soon as there's wheelspin, ASR still kicks in :-/

The switch on the dash is the snow chain switch, it's not winter mode. See this document, page 6, for more information.

Also see this document with a technical explanation from the FSM, note the pretty chart on page 3.

 

[Jelmer]

Unbreakable gearbox broken? Check.

Unbreakable engine broken? Check.
[youtube]6sw70XFulqQ[/youtube]

Drove somewhere, all OK, went out of the car, started it five minutes later, and then this.

 

[gsxr]

Oh no!! What happened??? Have you been able to get the car to a mechanic for diagnosis??

 

[bing]

Shit! That don't sound healthy, mate. I hope it's not serious.

 

[Jelmer]

I haven't got a clue "what happened". One moment everything was fine (no odd sounds, no ticks, nothing), and the next moment this clunking sound was there. We called a car transport company, who - can you believe it - came immediately. It's already at the mechanic now, and since he loves these cars as much as I do, he'll probably start working tomorrow.

We did do some preliminary tests: there's no compression loss (he disconnected some hose leading to near the CAN box, and said there was no oil coming out). There's no oil loss, no leaks.

After disconnecting the EZL we tried some cranking, and at first the sound didn't seem exactly rhythmic with the cylinders. Then later it was silent for a few seconds, and started again... I believe the sound originates near the front, right cylinder bank, near the 2nd cylinder.

Since I don't want to suffer the same fate as Christian, I obviously haven't let it run...

I'm not angry or sad with the car, but I am beginning to think it's not wise to have a 036 as daily driver. I'm thinking of mothballing the car for a while (maybe a year, or two). Dunno yet if I'd like a 2nd hand Merc, a new Merc, or a different brand (leasecar).

 

[Glen]

Sounds like a failed lifter to me. Hopefully your mechanic will find the problem quickly. Good luck!

 

[Rick Stevens]

Sorry Jelmer, I am at work and cant view the video, but I thought my engine had a major meltdown, sounded like is was from the right cylinder bank, turned out it was just the alternator, when these bearings go bad on the alternator or the air pump, it sounds like all hell is breaking loose....

Maybe just wishful thinking but the intermittant sound is exactly what mine did......

 

[gienkas]

Please check, if one of chain railguides, hadn't broke up and afterwards some parts of the plastic blocked out oil ports to valves/lifters, etc. For me, this seems to be one of the cams which hits valve lifter, as no oil is properly distributed. The fastest way is to pour down the oil to some clear container and remove the small oil pan. There will be clearly seen some debris, simple examination of the oil will bring you the answear.

 

[bing]

Could it be the same problem as Orazio's : http://www.500eboard.com/forums/sho...lves-what-s-this-noise&highlight=Engine+noise

[video=youtube;NPkrR2jxL5o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPkrR2jxL5o[/video]


Sounds very similar indeed. Turned out to be a valve lifter!?

 

[Jelmer]

Hmm, yeah, that does sound slightly similar, although my engine had a lower frequency.

Thanks for all the thoughts, I believe my mechanic also mentioned these possible causes. I'll be sure to include them all next time I speak with him. Knowing him, he's currently working on my car after secretly running outside (so his wife doesn't see him) ;-)

Hopefully the issue can be fixed without pulling the engine. Though, that would also be a nice time to replace the completely sagged-out engine- and gearbox mounts!

P.S.: How Orazio dared to rev his engine with this sound is beyond me! My first instinct is to turn it off!

Edit: in the thread Bing linked, there's also a vid by Jordi, where he describes his sound goes away after a while. It might be worth mentioning that the first time I heard this sound, the engine was still warm-ish. Now, with it being fully cooled down, it sounds exactly the same.

 

[gsxr]

Simple stuff first:

1) Try removing the serpentine belt and see if the noise goes away
2) If not, I agree with Glen, it could very well be a failed lifter - not very common. Need to pull valve covers for inspection...

 

[Jelmer]

As I expected, Cor had been having fun with it during the weekend, and just called me. He has the car running again (without replacing anything just yet) and it's completely silent! But, since the frequency of the knocking wasn't fully regular, and not the same frequency as the valves, AND seemed to originate from the front of the engine, his best guess is the distribution chain(s).

So, he's going to open her up, inspect the valves etc, and inspect the chains and rails. Though, I would've expected that sound to happen slightly more gently... Then again, I'm nearly at 190k KM , and I've got no clue what happened before 132k (when I bought the car) - except that someone KNEW he had to sell it in a bit, so I can imagine the previous owner not being too careful...

Poor car ;-(

 

[gienkas]

Hi,

I just don't want to repeat myself, but the symptoms seems to be the bad chain rail guide/s. Your mechanic had run the engine few times more, so as debris were flushed out and the oil started to be properly distributed in the upper part of the engine, right side in your case, as a result noise came down, eventually disappeared. Of course this is only my consideration based on the short movie and the description, I just wanted to help you. It's high time to replace chain, railguides, tensioner, etc. Don't worry, car will be fine soon

 

[500AMM]

I haven't got a clue "what happened". One moment everything............

...........I'm not angry or sad with the car, but I am beginning to think it's not wise to have a 036 as daily driver. I'm thinking of mothballing the car for a while (maybe a year, or two). Dunno yet if I'd like a 2nd hand Merc, a new Merc, or a different brand (leasecar).

Hi Jelmer.

I'm sorry to see that you have problems with your car again. I'm not able to view the video clips here at work, but hopefully you don't need to pull a cyl.head. or the engine. I'm sure it will be fine again, and you are lucky to have an enthusiastic mechanic on it.

I am using my Limited partly as a daily driver, but try to make it to a minimum during the winter due to the awful cold start wear. (...these days it's between -15C and -25C here at my place, so I don't turn any of the 036s now.) So it is smart to have another car for daily driving, but let me advice not to buy an E-class W/S211. I bought a 2005 E220 Cdi this summer, approx. 150' km, great car in mint condition, great to drive and great comfort, but it's a crappy quality - it get's constantly unexpected defects to be repaired. So no modern money sucking MB for me, I'll probably change to a Japanese car based on the statistics.

 

[bing]

So no modern money sucking MB for me, I'll probably change to a Japanese car based on the statistics.

Yes, It's a sad fact that japanese cars are more reliable despite their crappy looks, plastic/tinny feel and their ever changing model shape. If it were me i'd get a Subaru of some sort for the winter.

 

[Jelmer]

Thanks for the suggestions, but I'd rather drive a W211 to/from the shop a few times a year than drive around in a Japanese high-quality tin can. As said before, I had a 2008 Toyota Avensis, and even my W203 feels much better. Currently I have a Seat Leon from a few years back and I hate every minute in it. I take much pleasure from quality, elegance and details in my cars, and as such many vehicles simply don't cut it for me.

Also - and I'm very fortunate for this - the missus and me both see a car as more than just a thing that gets you from A to B. It's a member of the family. We enjoy taking trips (heck, we even drive to a supermarket 30km away), going places, going to a hotel for a weekend in another country, etc. I don't want to do that stuff in a "normal" car.

To make it even worse: I think we would both prefer getting new cars over buying a larger house!

And yes, I'm a spoiled little brat

 

[195910]

So it is smart to have another car for daily driving, but let me advice not to buy an E-class W/S211. I bought a 2005 E220 Cdi this summer, approx. 150' km, great car in mint condition, great to drive and great comfort, but it's a crappy quality - it get's constantly unexpected defects to be repaired. So no modern money sucking MB for me, I'll probably change to a Japanese car based on the statistics.

Hi Arnt,

When it comes to the W211, only go with facelift cars. got two of them, yes its no Panzer 124, but better than anything else.
How about lighter engine oil formulas like 0W30 or 5W30 for the bad winters...over here its 30C today !!! so much for winter, only lasted 1 week

 

[8899]

When it comes to the W211, only go with facelift cars.

The facelift W211 was effective for the 2007 model-year here in the US. But, do you happen to know the manufacture date that delineates pre- and post-facelift?

 

[500AMM]

Thanks for the suggestions, but I'd rather drive a W211 to/from the shop a few times a year than drive around in a Japanese high-quality tin can. As said before, I had a 2008 Toyota Avensis, and even my W203 feels much better. Currently I have a Seat Leon from a few years back and I hate every minute in it. I take much pleasure from quality, elegance and details in my cars, and as such many vehicles simply don't cut it for me.

Also - and I'm very fortunate for this - the missus and me both see a car as more than just a thing that gets you from A to B. It's a member of the family. We enjoy taking trips (heck, we even drive to a supermarket 30km away), going places, going to a hotel for a weekend in another country, etc. I don't want to do that stuff in a "normal" car.

To make it even worse: I think we would both prefer getting new cars over buying a larger house!

And yes, I'm a spoiled little brat

He, He - no problem Jelmer, I do also like the comfort and pleasant feeling in the S211 and other modern MBs, but it cost more than it taste. I am now talking about car hold here in Morepay with cosmic car prices, cosmic parts prices, cosmic shop rates, along with the impairment. For regular daily "body transport" it's more a question to make it as safe and cheap as possible with minor concers, which in next turn allows to use more funds and time on the real drivers. For the fun driving and nice trips, both me and my cohabitant prefer the 036, no doubt.

I'm still not sure what we end up with, it is many choices. My cohabitant has driven a 2002 Ford Focus 1.6 petrol, automat, stationwagon since 2005, adding 120kkm (totally 152 kkm). Except from regular maintenance we have changed 1 sensor and had 1 broken cable to the tailgate. The sensor was replaced on a periodic service and the cable was done by myself. TWO REPAIRS in 7 years, beat that!!

And here is the list on the "super quality" S211 with 150kkm:
- right side mirror heating not working (normal defect on all 211)
- Webasto heater works randomly
- compartment/heater fan noise at low speed
- Xenon lights illumenates like a 1965 model 6 volt car
- electric luggage cover works randomly
- rain sensor sensitivity has a strange behaviour
- blown turbo hose, why??
- possible EGR failure, or turbo charger issue, the car runs mostly in emergency modus

And I could list the potential defects I've read on the forums, which I'm sure will occur soon or later. What about the flexing front suspension leading to permanent deformation and incorrect wheel geometry...complete front suspension...that's cheap...

 

[195910]

The facelift W211 was effective for the 2007 model-year here in the US. But, do you happen to know the manufacture date that delineates pre- and post-facelift?

Face-lift models were introduced as early as P-Date 07/2006. my E500(E550) is 09/2006, E350 is 11/2006

 

[195910]

OK, seen worst lists...Early W211&W220 cars have lots of electronic troubles. But newer ones are Solid.

Don't forget all the safety/innovation/comfort/stability requires dozens of electronic systems = more chances of things going wrong.

The Rubber bits (Suspension,Engine compartment) don't last as they did in the W126/W124.. that's a FACT.

Good thing you don't have 7G-tronic transmission, or you WILL add this to your list.

 

[--CHICHOIS--]

Love your car !!!

 

[Jelmer]

Wooohooo Santa came early!

Cor phoned me up, with good news and bad news. The good news is that they completed the inspection, valves, springs, chain guides, everything is in perfect order. The only thing that was wrong was the chain itself - it was way too loose. He theorized the sound we heard came from the belt tensioner, which couldn't pull enough.

The bad news was that "the engine ran like a dead chicken": my distributor caps and rotors were end-of-life. So that has been replaced, together with the valve-cover-rubbers, which were fossilised and were actually twisted () in one place.

Anyway, after picking it I immediately noticed the difference. The engine runs much smoother, the slight hickup at idle is completely gone and idle rpm is dead smooth now. There's more pulling power (again!!!!), the engine actually SOUNDS different and the slight acceleration lag I had (felt like a turbo spinning up) is gone, too. All in all, well worth the hassle. Though I kindly asked my car to let me know more gently next time

I thoroughly enjoyed my trip back. 100km/h and no engine sound, no tire noise, no squeaks, no whines, nothing. I love this car.
[youtube]dyaAybsgeXc[/youtube]

 

[gsxr]

Hmmm. I know it's a little late, but did he measure the timing chain stretch...? I'm guessing he didn't. A new tensioner is good but if the chain is original, it should be inspected for stretch (elongation). At least it's running better now!

 

[Jelmer]

No, he didn't measure it, but he showed me the chain as I pictured it: he said his rule-of-thumb is that if you can bend it like this, it's time to replace it.

Though, we are talking about the same chain, aren't we? Because he replaced the chain AND the tensioner...

 

[gsxr]

OH, got it - so he DID replace the chain too! I thought he found the chain loose and only replaced the tensioner (to tighten the old chain). With a new chain & tensioner, you should be all set. !!

 

[bing]

Glad to hear it's now running well. I'm surprised the chain guides are still intact after running with a lose chain. How many miles were on those caps and rotors??

 

[Jelmer]

Oh, right, good that you mentioned it Bing, because I wanted to bring that subject up!

The caps were replaced in March this year (!!!) and only 20k KM ago. They were real Bosch caps, so no knockoff junk. A few options, imho:
* Either these caps aren't built the way they used to,
* This car eats through them in ridiculous speed and it's normal
* Or they wore down extra fast because of the leaking insulation plates that were replaced last time.

I personally think it's the last option, in which case it's some good advice for everyone... Replace the insulation plates if they haven't been replaced yet

 

[bing]

Uncle Gerry's - "I've done them twice in 7 years and 45,000 miles I've had my car. Seems that cap/rotors and front brake rotors are a regular maintenance item on our beasties ..."

Aki's - "My rotors and caps are 4 years old. About 30tkm and caps are clean inside like new, but metal is gone. Rotors are worn too."

Hmmm..this is why I asked, JB. Seem to remember that yours weren't that old..weird!

 

[500AMM]

Oh, right, good that you mentioned it Bing, because I wanted to bring that subject up!

The caps were replaced in March this year (!!!) and only 20k KM ago. They were real Bosch caps, so no knockoff junk. A few options, imho:
* Either these caps aren't built the way they used to,
* This car eats through them in ridiculous speed and it's normal
* Or they wore down extra fast because of the leaking insulation plates that were replaced last time.

I personally think it's the last option, in which case it's some good advice for everyone... Replace the insulation plates if they haven't been replaced yet

Just the same as on my Limited. Everything was new a year ago, and now 5000 km later - caps & rotors looks like they've never been replaced. One bolt head on the rotor have even rusted in the allen key hole and cracked off, barely hanging in place!?! After a closer study of the happening shown here in post #5: http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?2833-Short-clip-of-possible-EZL-failure
...one corroded bolt head was the reason. The reason for the corrosion is that the allen key slightly damages the surface protection (phosphate/zink plating) during tightening of the bolts, leaving unprotected carbon steel inside the key holes. Along with entrapped moisture in the caps and the true that it is an electronic storm inside there, creating ionization and optimum conditions for corrosion.

The rotor & caps easliy get verdigris build-up on the contact points quite fast, depending on how frequent the car is driven and the climate it runs in. Especially the rotor has almost no wear after 5000km, and the contact points in the cap can even be cleaned with water, which takes the verdigris. The contact points can additionally be brushed with abrasive paper, but it won't last longer though. The only way I can think of to prevent this is to keep the engine constant varm to dry up the caps.

 

[Jelmer]

Did you also change those insulation plates BEHIND the caps? That was most likely the issue with me: the insulation plates were probably still original, while the caps changed slightly. So they didn't fit completely, thus letting air and moisture into the caps, damaging everything. I'm hoping the caps will last longer now.

 

[bing]

The reason for the corrosion is that the allen key slightly damages the surface protection (phosphate/zink plating) during tightening of the bolts, leaving unprotected carbon steel inside the key holes. Along with entrapped moisture in the caps and the true that it is an electronic storm inside there, creating ionization and optimum conditions for corrosion.

.

Interesting! So it might not be a bad idea to replaced these bolts, say every 3rd or even 2nd caps/rotor repacelement ??

Did you also change those insulation plates BEHIND the caps? That was most likely the issue with me: the insulation plates were probably still original, while the caps changed slightly. So they didn't fit completely, thus letting air and moisture into the caps, damaging everything. I'm hoping the caps will last longer now

I know this has been discussed here many times, trouble is because of the cost of these bloody ignition parts, I don't think many here change insulators at the same time when renewing caps/rotors (at least) . Thus you're always chasing an idle/misfire/stumble/rough running issue, Has anyone learned that they should be replacing these wretched eating verdgris parts all in one go?? I would !

Having said this, I'm not sure if this indeed was the cause of premature wear of your caps, JB. Hope you're right and I'm wrong .

 

[500AMM]

Did you also change those insulation plates BEHIND the caps? That was most likely the issue with me: the insulation plates were probably still original, while the caps changed slightly. So they didn't fit completely, thus letting air and moisture into the caps, damaging everything. I'm hoping the caps will last longer now.

No, I didn't change the insulator caps at summer 2011, only caps & rotors. But after that damage I bought a new ins.cap from AutohausAZ, which is not an OE Bosch but something aftermarket thingy, despite their site says Bosch OE and the price is $94! It looks different and doesn't have neither Bosch nor Mercedes marking, but it fitted properly and it does hopefully the same function.

The rotor has also got other bolts now, with better coating maybe? I hardly believe that I am the only person experiencing that ignition breakdown.

 

[500AMM]

Interesting! So it might not be a bad idea to replaced these bolts, say every 3rd or even 2nd caps/rotor repacelement ??

I know this has been discussed here many times, trouble is because of the cost of these bloody ignition parts, I don't think many here change insulators at the same time when renewing caps/rotors (at least) . Thus you're always chasing an idle/misfire/stumble/rough running issue, Has anyone learned that they should be replacing these wretched eating verdgris parts all in one go?? I would !

Having said this, I'm not sure if this indeed was the cause of premature wear of your caps, JB. Hope you're right and I'm wrong .

I am taking off all rotors on my cars and replace that bolts with stainless steel quality. The OE bolts is a low head hexagon socket screw DIN 7984, M5 x 14mm, 8.8 strength, 3mm allen key grip, reduced shank w/fixed locking washer. I will go for a regular hexagon socket screw DIN 912, M5 x 20mm, A4-80 strength, 4mm allen key grip. I will cut the screw to correct length and use regular locking washers in SS, they fit exactly into the bolt head recess on the rotors. Those screws will fit perfect for the job and I'm rid of the potensial bolt corrosion cracking risk.

 

[gsxr]

Tip: Put a dab of blue Loc-Tite on each of the 3 bolts that fasten the rotor to the bracket. Otherwise, you may see this mess at some point. Don't ask how I know.

 

[500AMM]

Tip: Put a dab of blue Loc-Tite on each of the 3 bolts that fasten the rotor to the bracket. Otherwise, you may see this mess at some point. Don't ask how I know.

Dave, that situation is more or less the same as I was pointing to in my post #136. On your photo has one bolt unscrewed, and in my case did the bolt head break off and destroyed everything in there.

What I don't like with Loctite on these bolts is that they will fix too hard. Well, at least on my cars have these bolts always been hard to open, and none of them had Locktite. The OE bolts have 3mm allen keys and I have broken three tools already, and on one bolt did the key grip go north too. When replacing to regular DIN 912 bolts does the allen key size increase to 4 mm which helps a lot.

 

[gsxr]

In my photos, the root cause was that one of the rotor bolts had loosened, and also the center bracket-to-camshaft-sprocket bolt had loosened. I like the idea of switching to the 4mm allen key for the rotor bolts, I don't like the 3mm either. I've not had any trouble removing the bolts with blue Loc-Tite though.

 

[Jelmer]

Car is back from the workshop. New black plastic bumper, the rest has been resprayed. And: they took out the nasty little bump in the rear, on the top right the right. Yay!

My replacement car was an Opel Corsa - 1.2 diesel. Wow. That's a switch. Now I finally understand why people are wearing coats and hats in their cars - these damn things don't have a proper heating! Only after 15km of highway I finally got some warm air. There should be a law against these tiny little pieces of danger...

Regarding the current state of the car: I am so very happy with this machine. Today we quickly visited my mother, 150km drive. No problem. On the contrary: it was quite pleasant to drive again. Everything has been fixed, there aren't any sounds or noises inside, no ugly bits to repair, and the car absolutely drives and looks like new. Did I mention that plowing through snow isn't a problem?

The to do list is very short:

• Replace engine mounts, eventually
• Finally replace dash speakers
• Hook up GPS navigation in my Becker. Then again, why bother if I have my phone?
• 18" rials... *sigh* ./me dreams
• Rear window heating is 75% gone
• Very important: the driver-side seat heating button flickers! Sometimes.

What I DID notice: it looks like the rear is sitting a tad high. Or am I just seeing things?

 

[gerryvz]

18" rials... *sigh* ./me dreams

Your 18" Rials as of last Tuesday ....

 

[Jelmer]

Your 18" Rials as of last Tuesday ....

As if I didn't notice. Just didn't care for another chain-yank award...

 

[500AMM]

Hi Jelmer.

It is nice to see your car back on the road again - Hurra!!

My replacement car was an Opel Corsa - 1.2 diesel. Wow. That's a switch. Now I finally understand why people are wearing coats and hats in their cars - these damn things don't have a proper heating! Only after 15km of highway I finally got some warm air. There should be a law against these tiny little pieces of danger...

This is very common to all diesels IMO, my 220 Cdi is just the same. We've had between -10C and -25C here since early December and the coolant temp reaches 50 to max 60C. So the Webasto has to be run at the same time. That is OK but when the engine reaches a certain temp it turns off automatically, and if the tank is below 1/4 it stops working too. We will sell this thing ASAP and no more diesels for us, 2.0 gasoline turbo engine in the next car - and it will hardly be any MB.

Car is back from the workshop. New black plastic bumper, the rest has been resprayed. And: they took out the nasty little bump in the rear, on the top right the right. Yay!

What I DID notice: it looks like the rear is sitting a tad high. Or am I just seeing things?

Yes, it seems to be a bit too high. Lower it on the SLS valve and you definitely get better traction and stability on snow.

 

[gsxr]

The rear doesn't look abnormally high. If you had a near-empty fuel tank, that would explain it. You can tweak the SLS a bit however you may need to swap spring pads or springs to get it much lower.

 

[bing]

Agree with Dave on the ride height . I don't think it's sitting too high - look at Gerry's, this is pretty much the same as yours ,JB. I think stock setting always appear nose heavy(especially with low fuel tank), but if you want to get technical dig up the measurements from Dave here and find a nice tape measure.

And here the old days:

Standard!

 

[gsxr]

Yep - the original / factory ride height was surprisingly high in the rear. I find it interesting that the Limiteds, which were the last few .036's built, also had slightly shorter rear springs...