Puddle of red fluid

[Thusly]

Greetings all - my first post and I apologize in advance for the ignorance of the question.

I am the original owner of a 1992 500e with 135k miles. The car doesn’t get driven much, but when I have, I had been noticing small brownish drops on the garage floor and had presumed it was some sort of transmission leak but nothing too serious (hopeful thinking).

I had just returned from an extended trip and came home to find a puddle of red fluid covering the floor. (Sorta looked like a scene from Dexter.) I immediately thought it was the transmission but wasn’t sure why it happened when it was sitting for several months. I then thought it might be power steering fluid and when I checked the level (which looked like the same color as on the garage floor), it was very low, almost completely empty. That said, it looked like there wasn’t enough power steering fluid volume to make the mess it did.

I did clean up the mess and had to let it sit again another week only to find more fluid on the floor. I hadn’t started or ran it since well before the first mess so the car has not been driven in months.

Thoughts? Not sure what to think or do.

thanks much!

 

[JC220]

It could be just a leaking transmission pan... or a failing seal which would be alot worse.

When was the transmission last serviced or disturbed?

You are going to have to Jack the car up making sure it's well supported on Jack stands etc before you go under it. And look for where the ATF if coming from. If everything is soaked then clean it all down and place paper towels on floor to try to pinpoint the leak area.

I would probably top off the ATF level first then quickly drive it up on ramps and get a good look see and be able to run it briefly to see if it is coming out under pressure or just a drip from the pan.

Get yourself a good drip pan too in order to collect and control the mess!

Let us know what you see - plenty of photos and glad to help

 

[JC220]

By the way

 

[nocfn]

And fill that PS resevoir too before you start car. There is a good bit in that PS system as well and it would not be red if it was MB fluid.

 

[gsxr]

You are going to have to Jack the car up making sure it's well supported on Jack stands etc before you go under it. And look for where the ATF if coming from. If everything is soaked then clean it all down and place paper towels on floor to try to pinpoint the leak area.

This: ^^^

You must clean the engine/transmission to identify the source. This wont be fun. The only good news is that with a leak as severe as you describe, it should be easy to pinpoint.

 

[Thusly]

Thanks all for the quick response! Much appreciated!

I did take it to a transmission shop months before and not sure what they did, but it was to fix the leaks/dripping. Even after that, there was the brownish drops.

I will top up the ps fluid and auto transmission fluid and put it up in the stacker and see. Thank goodness it wasn’t on the top stacker otherwise I would had bigger problems for the car below.

thanks again for all the comments - I had no idea where to start.

 

[gsxr]

Be careful with the ATF level. It normally should be checked with the trans fully hot (driving 20+ mins on the freeway). If checked cold, the level will be roughly 10-20mm below the hot level. Some dipsticks have 2 temperature ranges, hot & cold.

Also, the engine must be running with the trans in Park, on a level surface, to accurately measure ATF level.

 

[MB V8]

You mentioned taking your car to a transmission shop a few months ago. Just curious what transmission shop you took your car to?

 

[Thusly]

You mentioned taking your car to a transmission shop a few months ago. Just curious what transmission shop you took your car to?

For better or worse, it was my wife's trust transmission friend who had serviced her BMW. There weren't any Mercedes around......

 

[MB V8]

Thanks for the info.

JC220 really has a nice write up on leaking tranny seals, and how he replaced the various seals on one of his trannies. I don't have a link for you to his post but maybe JC220 will read this and provide one. Or you can use the search function to find it.

It's definitely worth reading JC220's post so you have an understanding of the repair. In fact his post has such good pics of each seal to replace, and is so well organized, I printed out each section in order to review with the guy that re-sealed one of my trannies. Sure enough as we went over seal by seal he replaced, we found he missed one.

 

[Thusly]

I am grateful for all the comments and suggestions.

question: I am taking the car to a supposedly well regarded Mercedes shop in Scottsdale. They were not that excited to work on an older car but were excited to take a look at my 500e. The person i spoke to indicated they don’t do much tranny work. Presuming that there is a possibility of what the issue could be, what would you suggest? I realize there is a fair amount of diagnostic work required to source the problem.

I am reliant on shops for the work and not capable myself to do any repairs.

Thanks all, much appreciated.

 

[gerryvz]

I recommend that you find a shop in your area that is familiar with the W124 and this era cars, and a huge bonus if they work on 500Es. A shop that is not excited to work on an older car is not a place I would want to take my car.

First, becuase they aren't going to be all that enthusiastic about working on an older car, as they said. That means they will probably cut corners or not do what needs to be done to solve the problem, particularly if they find it is going to take some time and labor to fix (for example, having to drop the transmission to reseal something that can only be taken care of by dropping it).

Second, a shop that isn't excited to work on an older car, isn't likely going to have the knowledge base (borne of experience) to know the common problems, and experience to fix them. Not to mention the special tools. Shops that work on the older cars, know the problems endemic to the older cars, and will have a MUCH higher probability of finding and solving the problem expeditiously, and at the lowest possible cost.

I'm sure there are some Phoenix-area members here on the forum who can point you to a tried and true, reliable shop in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area that knows how to work on these cars. @emerydc8? Anyone else in Arizona?

Just my two cents. If you can't DIY, then having an honest, and KNOWLEDGEABLE independent facility to repair and maintain your car is going to be the BIGGEST contributor to a successful ownership experience over the long term.

Cheers,
Gerry

One thread from the Western US sub-forum:

[Tucson, a little ways away]: Good MB Shop in Tucson, AZ | Pacific/Western US

 

[Thusly]

I recommend that you find a shop in your area that is familiar with the W124 and this era cars, and a huge bonus if they work on 500Es. A shop that is not excited to work on an older car is not a place I would want to take my car.

First, becuase they aren't going to be all that enthusiastic about working on an older car, as they said. That means they will probably cut corners or not do what needs to be done to solve the problem, particularly if they find it is going to take some time and labor to fix (for example, having to drop the transmission to reseal something that can only be taken care of by dropping it).

Second, a shop that isn't excited to work on an older car, isn't likely going to have the knowledge base (borne of experience) to know the common problems, and experience to fix them. Not to mention the special tools. Shops that work on the older cars, know the problems endemic to the older cars, and will have a MUCH higher probability of finding and solving the problem expeditiously, and at the lowest possible cost.

I'm sure there are some Phoenix-area members here on the forum who can point you to a tried and true, reliable shop in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area that knows how to work on these cars. @emerydc8? Anyone else in Arizona?

Just my two cents. If you can't DIY, then having an honest, and KNOWLEDGEABLE independent facility to repair and maintain your car is going to be the BIGGEST contributor to a successful ownership experience over the long term.

Cheers,
Gerry

Thanks much Gerry - great words of advice!

 

[gerryvz]

A few other shops to check out:

starservice28323035-135602-sml-1

All of our work is guaranteed. 25 years of experience. Exclusive Mercedes-Benz servicing. Transmission. Alignment and suspension. Brakes. Call 480-966-7827.

www.starserviceaz.com

BitNinja Honeypot

European Repair Phoenix, AZ - Mercedes Specialist Shop

For expert European repair in Glendale near Phoenix, AZ, visit The Benz Shop. We are Mercedes Specialists, and work on all Euro makes!

thebenzshopaz.com

Mercedes Repair in Scottsdale, AZ | Scottsdale European Service

Scottsdale European Service is not just the dealership alternative, but the top choice of many Mercedes-Benz owners in Scottsdale, AZ! See why for yourself!

scottsdaleeuropeanservice.com

German Auto Service In Phoenix | Audi, BMW, Mercedes, VW Service

At German Auto Service in Phoenix we repairs on German automobiles. We service and repair Audi, BMW, Mercedes & VW. Our local auto technicians are here to help service your German vehicle.

www.germanautoservice.com

 

[liviu165]

I'm sure there are some Phoenix-area members here on the forum who can point you to a tried and true, reliable shop in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area that knows how to work on these cars. @emerydc8? Anyone else in Arizona?

I am aware of two members in that area. Although they have (or had) C126s, they may be able to suggest knowledgeable shops: @Beldar77 and @bclifton .

 

[emerydc8]

Post in thread 'Good MB Shop in Tucson, AZ'
Good MB Shop in Tucson, AZ | Pacific/Western US
Recommended by a member. If you prefer a dealer, Kenny T is a senior tech at MB of Tucson with a lot of experience on the 722.3 transmission. He once rebuilt my 400E transmission. As he was enthusiastically showing me the B3 clutches and other parts he laid out on a cart, he mentioned how he was disappointed that he was one of the only guys in the shop who knows his way around the 722.3 transmission and the younger guys weren’t interested in learning about it. Sounds like your Scottsdale shop may have retired the techs who knew about these older cars. I agree with @gerryvz about not using them.

 

[JC220]

Thanks for the info.

JC220 really has a nice write up on leaking tranny seals, and how he replaced the various seals on one of his trannies. I don't have a link for you to his post but maybe JC220 will read this and provide one. Or you can use the search function to find it.

It's definitely worth reading JC220's post so you have an understanding of the repair. In fact his post has such good pics of each seal to replace, and is so well organized, I printed out each section in order to review with the guy that re-sealed one of my trannies. Sure enough as we went over seal by seal he replaced, we found he missed one.

Thanks for that and here is the re-seal thread below

Thread 'HOW-TO: 722.3 External Re-Seal' HOW-TO: 722.3 External Re-Seal | Transmission and Driveline

 

[Beldar77]

I am aware of two members in that area. Although they have (or had) C126s, they may be able to suggest knowledgeable shops: @Beldar77 and @bclifton .

I have used two shops in Phoenix: Andrew at Atwood European (mentioned above) and Bud at MB Motors. Both are great guys and know their way around older Mercedes.

 

[Thusly]

I have used two shops in Phoenix: Andrew at Atwood European (mentioned above) and Bud at MB Motors. Both are great guys and know their way around older Mercedes.

Much appreciated!

 

[bclifton]

Sorry for the super late reply - just logging back in here after acquiring a new 1994 SL320 Lots of awesome documentation on this board

Bud at MB Motors is amazing (24th street and McDowell). Really great friend - he knows his stuff. Highly recommended. For transmission jobs, I always go with Adrian at German Transmission (40th street, just north of McDowell?). Bud usually sends over the transmissions to Adrian. I've had Adrian rebuild my W126 transmission and also reseal the steering box. I'll probably be contacting him soon relating to the 722.5 transmission in this new car

 

[Thusly]

Update as to my original post: fortunately, the leaking situation was caused by an overtightened oil pan that destroyed the seal and damaged/bent the oil pan. It was likely caused by an unscrupulous mechanic with an aggressive hydraulic tool that overtorqued the bolts. Lesson learned - "trusted" transmission person didn't have any foreign cars in their shop when I dropped it off...... Regardless, the tranny was inspected, new seal installed, existing pan reshaped back to normal, and no other transmssion issues were diagnosed or found.

That said, I had no idea when the last real service was done on the car (it had sat undriven for many years) and the entire car was tested and checked. Several deferred maintenance items were noted and corrected (thank goodness, as one could have been lights out for the engine). All good now (hopefully no more puddles in the garage.....)

Thanks to all posters for their comments, observations and suggestions. I couldn't have gotten to this point without everyone's sage commentary. I hope that the ole' girl will continue to run wonderfully and without issue.

 

[gerryvz]

Thanks for the follow-up, and that makes sense. It's a common problem, to be honest. The torque spec for the transmission oilpan bolts is pretty low.

I recommend that you purchase a new pan. They are cheap, easily avaialble, and it's an easy install. My reasoning is that once bent, a transmission oilpan will never be quite the same as it is in an unbent condition. Thus, it is very very possible that you may continue to have leaking issues in the future ... later, if not sooner. Getting a new pan, and gasket, is very cheap insurance against this.

Also it is a good time to replace the transmission fluid (and drain the torque converter) and filter, if this wasn't done when your existing pan was "fixed." At least doing this would baseline the fluid and filter for a good 25K miles into the future, so you don't have to worry about it.

I recommend a new MB factory pan (order from mboemparts.com, as it will be much cheaper than if you walk into your local dealer and order it, or if you have an independent shop buy it for you). Or buy from AutohausAZ.com. From one of the online MB parts dealers, a new pan would be around $60.

Pan gasket: https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/1262711180OE
MB gasket part number: 126 271 10 80

Pan: https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/1262701012
MB pan part number: 126 270 10 12

You can get the pan from one of the online MB dealers for cheaper. Unforrtunately, the online parts catalog used by all of the dealers seems to be providing an error at the moment, so perhaps try again in a few hours.

The torque spec for the transmission oilpan bolts is only 8 newton-meters. I recommend tightening the pan bolts in a cross-wise pattern (not sequentially). Also, to tighten them in two stages, and then go back in a few days (after a few heat cycles) and re-tighten to the torque spec of 8-9 Nm. This is because the rubber pan gasket will "give" after being initially compressed, and can loosen up and allow drips. Re-torquing helps eliminiate this.

 

[gsxr]

The trans pan must be carefully torqued. I always do 2 stages, first to 5Nm, then the spec of 8Nm, and go over the bolts at least twice. And always use an OE gasket (they are shockingly inexpensive). A clueless shop/tech could have grossly overtightened the pan, and it sounds like that's what happened.

Napsterville has the pan for $63, the search isn't working, but here's a direct URL & screenshot:

Oil Sump 126-270-10-12 | MB OEM Parts

126-270-10-12 - Oil Sump

www.mboemparts.com

 

[Thusly]

Once again - thanks for all of the insightful comments. Makes sense that it is cheap insurance to replace as opposed to repair.....