R129 SL 72 AMG (M120 7-liter engine specs)

[weide1]

In order to provide the number of cars that were made, I am sorry Chris(89speedster). But i do not have such specific information. Numbers of how many were made is also less important to me. I try to get the engine specifications. Is already as hard as it is!

Further, I only have this VIN of a Brunei SL 730. WDB1290762F158532. And some images. Also from when it was offered in the UK.

Conclusion, since you tell you know of 2 Brunei SL 730 versions, it is more likely you provide us - or at least me - of that information. Would be helpful. And appreciated over here.

 

[89speedster]

What I can tell you is that the Sultan of Brunei never purchased anything like 50, SL73. He ordered approximately 50 Mercedes Benz with the higher output 565bhp engine, but they were fitted to a variety of models including his S Class Kombi's.

He did buy a lot of standard SL600 though, Perhaps people have assumed these were all converted to SL73 spec.

Actually, only four SOB SL73 are known. Two were butchered and used as the base for his Argento concept, one is in the UK and the other is heading to the UK now. All of these are RHD.

I have been collating chassis numbers (17 so far). The three earliest cars are all four speed 'SL72' and these are the only 72's that appear on the list. There is then a gap of approx. 1 year before the first SL70 was delivered in late 95 and the first SL73 late 96.

Hope that helps.

 

[89speedster]

Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

And then there is this case for me, where i am still not 100 % certain of. Is the above image a ME version? And the second one a LH version?

Since that information is by which i pull my conclusions. Together with the information whether a certain vehicle, that i try to get the specifications from, has a 4 or 5 speed auto transmission.

View attachment 61217

View attachment 61218

An LH engine means the car is an SL72 with a 4 speed box. These are the earliest of the 70/72/73 cars. I'm not sure how AMG named these cars back then. I don't think it was SL72 as there are very few references to this name anywhere, but would be happy to be proved wrong.

An ME engine could be either an SL70 or SL73 with 5 speed box.

 

[weide1]

Resuming. AFAIK this moment.

7055 ccm LH and 4 speed with 365 kW.
7055 ccm ME and 5 speed with 365 kW.
7055 ccm ME and 5 speed with 386 kW.

And then there is still the M120 E 72 - with also 7055 ccm displacement. How does that one fit in?

7055 ccm LH and 4 speed with 386 kW.

Is there also a M120 E 72 ME 5 speed version? See link. 386 kW. ME version. Five speed auto. But 7.2 engine stamped number.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140-s-class/1587899-amg-s72-coupe-v12-1996-a.html

And to make it even more confusing.

M120.980/981 is LH. M120.982/983 is ME.
But i read 982 and i read 7.2.



But i see this. Are those coil packs? Coil packs would make it ME. And would make it 7.2 ME.

 

[89speedster]

This is how I see it...

[TABLE="width: 802"][TR][TD]SL72 AMG 7,055cc (Distributor/LH only)[/TD][TD="colspan: 2"]Engine designation is M120.981[/TD][TD]525bhp / 4 Speed[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]SL70 AMG 7,055cc (Coil Packs/ME only)[/TD][TD="colspan: 2"]Engine designation is M120.983[/TD][TD]489bhp / 5 Speed[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]SL73 AMG 7,291cc (Coil Packs/ME only)[/TD][TD="colspan: 2"]Engine designation is M120.983[/TD][TD]525bhp / 5 Speed[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]

 

[89speedster]

Are those coil packs? Coil packs would make it ME. And would make it 7.2 ME.

View attachment 61220

That is an LE/distributor engine which would make that an SL72 with an M120.981 engine number.

 

[weide1]

Maybe there is a difference in engine kW and Nm output between 980 and 981 and between 982 and 983? Between W/C140 - 980(LH) or(982(ME) and R129 - 981(LH) or 983(ME).

Or maybe some of my collected documents are wrong. Like this one. Engine stamp 7.2 but displacement 7298 ccm!




Or this document. 7180 ccm displacement.

 

[89speedster]

View attachment 61222

I think all the confusion surrounding these engines means that a lot of SL70's and 72's are being badged as 73's.

For example, the VIN number in your document above has an engine number M120.981 which would make it an SL72, but that very car was sold at a Coys auction in 2015 and was described as a SL73

http://www.coys.co.uk/cars/1996-mercedes-benz-sl73-amg-one-of-7-examples-made

 

[weide1]

That very car is the openingpost in this topic.

 

[89speedster]

That very car is the openingpost in this topic.

Ahhh! Thank you.

A bit scary that an outfit like Coys is misdescribing their auction entries. Proves just how careful you have to be when buying these cars.

 

[baviking1]

Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

Good afternoon Gentlemen,

I'll start by confessing I'm a bit of an imposter. I don't actually own a 500E, though I've been lucky enough to drive and admire one which belonged to a good friend of mine. That car was very recently sold to Rowan Atkinson of Mr Bean fame.

I'm here because I found this thread whilst searching Google for info on the SL73 AMG.

I've just purchased a Sultan of Brunei RHD SL73 AMG with very low miles. The car was sourced in Brunei and is currently on a boat heading toward these shores. It's been sitting unloved for a long time and will need work to get it up and running again.

For weeks now I've been researching these cars and their history. I've never come across a car which has so much conflicting information. The story around the Sultans cars make it all the more complex but also all the more interesting!

Your research regarding the engines is fascinating. Until now everything I've read tells me the SL70 was the 'base' model and the 72 and 73 were effectively the same car with a badge change around 1995.


Does anyone have information relating to how many of these cars were made? I've read a total of 85, of which 35 were SL72 and 50 were SL73. But the info on here re the engines would seem to blow that theory apart.

To confuse matters even more, the Sultan of Brunei cars are sometimes referred to as SL730 and have a more powerful engine fitted (565bhp). Are these included within the numbers above?

The Sultan apparently ordered somewhere between 25 and 52 SL73's/SL730's with the more powerful engine, but I only know of two and another two which are called Argento and have been butchered with nasty Honda concept car bodywork. All of these are RHD.

Personally I don't think the numbers are correct. I believe the confusion comes about as he owned between 25 and 52 Mercedes with that specific engine, not all of which are SL73's. Certainly he ordered ten S Class estates with this engine.

Would love to hear any other info you guys can provide.

Thanks,

Chris

Sir, I am curious if you did a personal inspection of the vehicle (or somehow an International PPI) before purchase? Not to be a spoil sport, but I'd heard the Brunei cars were left in pretty rough conditions after the 2008 "bubble". I hope it pans out for sure; love the M120. Mine (when running correctly) have the smoothest powerbands I've ever experienced from 50-130 MPH. I know Renntech was the builder of the SL74. I believe the last one of those in the US (outside of Matt Garret's perfect example in Houston) was exported from British Columbia to Poland (after an NBA goof ran it off a cliff).......

 

[89speedster]

Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

Sir, I am curious if you did a personal inspection of the vehicle (or somehow an International PPI) before purchase? Not to be a spoil sport, but I'd heard the Brunei cars were left in pretty rough conditions after the 2008 "bubble". I hope it pans out for sure; love the M120. Mine (when running correctly) have the smoothest powerbands I've ever experienced from 50-130 MPH. I know Renntech was the builder of the SL74. I believe the last one of those in the US (outside of Matt Garret's perfect example in Houston) was exported from British Columbia to Poland (after an NBA goof ran it off a cliff).......

Not a personal inspection, but a trusted friend from whom I've purchased other cars has inspected it and sent lots of photos. The big issue was ensuring the car was an SL73 and not one of the many 600SL's the Sultan purchased.

Condition wise, it's nowhere near as bad as some of the reports of foam and leather having disintegrated in the hot sun, but despite having covered only 4000 miles, the state of the car is poor and it will need a light restoration to get it back up and running.

All adds to the fun!

 

[PurpleDog]

This is how I see it...

[TABLE="width: 802"][TR][TD]SL72 AMG 7,055cc (Distributor/LH only)[/TD][TD="colspan: 2"]Engine designation is M120.981[/TD][TD]525bhp / 4 Speed[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]SL70 AMG 7,055cc (Coil Packs/ME only)[/TD][TD="colspan: 2"]Engine designation is M120.983[/TD][TD]489bhp / 5 Speed[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]SL73 AMG 7,291cc (Coil Packs/ME only)[/TD][TD="colspan: 2"]Engine designation is M120.983[/TD][TD]525bhp / 5 Speed[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]

Chris,

See #32 above. First pic shows a 510PS of my car which I agree with weide1 that its a SL70. But that translates into 503bhp?

Attached is more info.

 

[89speedster]

Chris,

See #32 above. First pic shows a 510PS of my car which I agree with weide1 that its a SL70. But that translates into 503bhp?

Attached is more info.

Firstly, beautiful car, Sir!

Good question.

Does it have a catalyst? I wonder if the Japanese cars have more power simply because they don't have a catalyst?

 

[89speedster]

That very car is the opening post in this topic.

That car now up for auction again with Bonhams at their Goodwood Festival of Speed sale. Now correctly described as an SL72 with a guide price of £70,000 - £100,000.

 

[jhodg5ck]

Ooo...Goodwood!

Hope she performs well @ Auction...

 

[weide1]

That car now up for auction again with Bonhams at their Goodwood Festival of Speed sale. Now correctly described as an SL72 with a guide price of £70,000 - £100,000.

Thanks for putting this into our view.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24120/preview_lot/5067419/

 

[weide1]

Chris,

See #32 above. First pic shows a 510PS of my car which I agree with weide1 that its a SL70. But that translates into 503bhp?

Attached is more info.

Is Frank Lang here saying the car with VIN WDB1290761F134374 has a 7.2 engine? Or is this my misinterpretation?

 

[PurpleDog]

Is Frank Lang here saying the car with VIN WDB1290761F134374 has a 7.2 engine? Or is this my misinterpretation?

As far as I can tell, it's 7,055 cc and a SL70


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[weide1]

As far as I can tell, it's 7,055 cc and a SL70

The 7,055 cc can also be a 7.2 engine. Since the 7.0 and the 7.2 have the same displacement.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3922257/1996-mercedes-benz-cl-class/

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140-s-class/1598496-amg-s72-coupe-v12-1996-green.html

These two cars both have a ME V12 engine. Both have a 5 speed auto transmission. And both have a 7.2 stamp.

Confusing stuff since that green C140 also has a 7.0 and 015 plate on top of the engine. But at the same time has a 0018 7.2 stamp.
Owner Alyehli put a short video of the engine on fb late 2015. Where that 0018 7.2 stamp is shown.

 

[weide1]

So your SL 70 could well be equipped with a 7.2 ME engine.
Best is to look for an engine stamp. That should prove it, i suppose?

Since a plate like this is not on the engine. A stamp is.



And here i read AMG Motornumber 0029, i suppose that number should be stamped in the engine.



Confusing stuff.

 

[PurpleDog]

So your SL 70 could well be equipped with a 7.2 ME engine.
Best is to look for an engine stamp. That should prove it, i suppose?

Since a plate like this is not on the engine. A stamp is.

View attachment 62796

And here i read AMG Motornumber 0029, i suppose that number should be stamped in the engine.

View attachment 62797

Confusing stuff.

Thanks Weide1! Will check


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[weide1]

I found this SL 72. Some 10 years ago at Autosalon Singen. And via France and UK back in die Heimat. No AMG but a Lorinser. However, AMG is related since the engine was made by MKB. According to the (partial printscreen of the) Fahrzeugbrief.

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...,106,164,165&pageNumber=2&scopeId=C&fnai=prev





i will ask MKB soon for bore and stroke numbers.
Like i did some days ago with Väth and Koenig.
And what appeared, the Koenig M120 7.2 was at the time made by Väth. No inhouse M120 7.2 production of Willy and Walter Koenig, like i always thought.




In post no. 57 of this topic, i published a car registration document which turns out to be the UK registration of the SL 72 Lorinser. I had it in my archive some while without knowing it was the Lorinser.

Makes me think, looking at this image. What if the AMG CL600 7.2 in fact has a MKB 7180 ccm engine. With 515 PS.

 

[weide1]

Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

I found this info in my archives... not sure how accurate the info is:
============================================
6.0L (5,987cc) = 89.0 x 80.2 (stock SL600)
7.0L (6,947cc) = 90.0 x 91.0 (RENNtech SL70)
7.4L (7,414cc) = 91.0 x 95.0 (RENNtech SL74)

Did RENNtech make TWO 7.0L versions? Two images.

First image - from C140 S 700 pdf - reads 90 x 91.

Second image - from R129 SL 700 test - reads 90 (one mm bigger holes) x 92 (80.2 + 11.8 Michigan made stroker crankshaft).




I make that 6947 ccm and 7023 ccm.

 

[weide1]

And then there is this issue for me. That RENNtech 6947/6944*ccm engine with 90 x 91 bore and stroke is also in this MKB 70 TE S124.
Some years ago i asked MKB via Email if they had used a RENNtech engine. NO NO NO NO WAY, Avramidis responded. A pure MKB product, he firmly proclaimed.

* depends on counting how accurate.

http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6715

 

[weide1]

I found this SL 72. Some 10 years ago at Autosalon Singen. And via France and UK back in die Heimat. No AMG but a Lorinser. However, AMG is related since the engine was made by MKB. According to the (partial printscreen of the) Fahrzeugbrief.

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...,106,164,165&pageNumber=2&scopeId=C&fnai=prev

View attachment 63351

View attachment 63352

i will ask MKB soon for bore and stroke numbers.

In my archive i had this fax from 2010.



That 7.3 engine is published with these specs on the MKB site.



It all fits. Just like Koenig Specials M120 7.2 engines were made by Väth, MKB made engines for Lorinser. And perhaps even for AMG. Who will tell?

 

[weide1]

Finally, what to do with Hagmann. Here i read about a 7.3L M120.



And here about a 7.0L M120.

http://hagmann-autosporting.de/inde...=65&category_id=9&option=com_phpshop&Itemid=6

 

[jhodg5ck]

Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

Did RENNtech make TWO 7.0L versions? Two images.

First image - from C140 S 700 pdf - reads 90 x 91.

Second image - from R129 SL 700 test - reads 90 (one mm bigger holes) x 92 (80.2 + 11.8 Michigan made stroker crankshaft).

View attachment 63657
View attachment 63658

I make that 6947 ccm and 7023 ccm.

I believe that bottom bit is from the girl that resides here now...

 

[gsxr]

Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

I believe that bottom bit is from the girl that resides here now...

 

[jhodg5ck]

Re: R129 SL 72 AMG

it is a pretty darn good time

 

[weide1]

Just received from Maria Winkler, After Sales AMG-Technik, the AMG M120 E73 Einführungsschrift für den AMG-Kundendienst von August 1996.

View attachment M120_E73 Einführungsschrift.pdf

Remarkable. It has 408 kW. First time i see this in an official AMG document. And it has 408 kW in august 1996. So the 7291 ccm was already there in august 1996. I thought from april 1999. When it had 386 kW.

I learn every day. Exciting.

 

[weide1]

And from july 1996 is this M120 E70 Einführungsschrift.

View attachment ES_M 120 E 70.pdf

And then there is this M120 E72 from 20/12/1994.

View attachment SL 600 AMG M120 E72 mit LH Steuergerät.pdf

Exciting to complete the information bit by bit.

 

[89speedster]

Just received from Maria Winkler, After Sales AMG-Technik, the AMG M120 E73 Einführungsschrift für den AMG-Kundendienst von August 1996.

View attachment 66163

Remarkable. It has 408 kW. First time i see this in an official AMG document. And it has 408 kW in august 1996. So the 7291 ccm was already there in august 1996. I thought from april 1999. When it had 386 kW.

I learn every day. Exciting.

Great info, thank you.
My own SL73 is a very late 96 car, so the date makes sense.

 

[whatever]

Come on, guys.
There's nothing much confusing between SL70 and SL72 and other 7.0/7.2 typos with the same 7055cm3 displacement.
The key difference are the cams and valve springs.
If you have only the displacement => you got "7.0 L" engine.
If you got the displacement with cams and valve springs => you get a "7.2 L" engine with more horsepower.

Although before, I thought that 7.2/7.3 was the same thing, just LH/ME difference, I was wrong...

 

[gsxr]

It's confusing because these models were sold during the late 90's, when the badge number almost always matched displacement. Sure, today we know the badge is just a jumble of letters and numbers, but back then 72 was supposed to mean 7.2 liters, not 7.0. It wasn't supposed to indicate a difference in power output, which is really what they meant.

 

[8899]

One just came up for sale:

http://germancarsforsaleblog.com/1999-mercedes-benz-sl73-amg-2/

 

[weide1]

Vehicle with VIN WDB1400571A329972 is interesting too. Since it shows the engine has 346 kW at 5500 rpm. Whereas the AMG Einführungsschrift M 120 E 70 says 365 kW.

Maybe because of the Switzerland origin?

It is this engine.



Further images on instagram. And many more on facebook.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BelcKJNAd1Q/?taken-by=investmentsonwheels

and

https://www.instagram.com/p/BeYMF0rgtGl/?taken-by=investmentsonwheels

 

[weide1]

And i am also trying to figure out what engine this Italian S 280 2.0 might have been. As listed below.



So i compare the straight 6 cylinder M 104 E 28 specs ( 89,9 x 73,5 mm ) to the straight 4 cylinder M 111 E 20 specs ( 89,9 x 78,7 mm ). Quite comparible.
M 111 even looks like M 104.

And maybe Brabus put a twin turbo on it.



But forget to adjust the brochure. Since here i read, toward the end, "il due litri quattro cilindri sedici valvole". AutoCapital 2/94.

 

[weide1]

M 104 E 20



According to an Italian Mercedesforum, it has 1991 ccm and 170 kW.
Maybe Brabus shortened the stroke of the M 104 E 28 ( 89,9 x 73,5 mm ) by 21,2 mm to 52,3 mm.
Since that would make 1991 ccm, when using the 89,9 mm bore.

 

[PurpleDog]

This just came up for sale


http://www.bulldogbros.com/car-listing/now-stock-1997-mercedes-sl70-amg/

VIN = WDB1290761F148044

¥6,900,000 ($65k USD)

Now in stock: 1997 Mercedes SL70 AMG (Tokyo, Japan)

Now available, 1997 Mercedes Benz SL70 AMG

Now is your chance to own a true rarity, the legendary Mercedes Benz SL70 AMG. Powered by a 7.0L AMG V12 engine, this one is sure to impress! Includes books/service history. Only 112,000 km! Please contact us for more info.

Only 6,900,000 JPY FOB (not including shipping)​

 

[fudgitive]

Might that be this white R129?

 

[PurpleDog]

Looks like it..same mileage. Hefty premium being asked...

 

[fudgitive]

No surprises there...

 

[weide1]

This one is up for sale again.



https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/...searchId=43c72218-6437-198d-f9e5-3b92964ad163



But now i have a stamped engine number. And that, combined with the further information and images in the advertisement, proves a LH 7.0 does really exist.

The Fahrzeugbrief rates it at 525 PS. This car has 525 PS too.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3879438/1995-mercedes-benz-s-class/photo-gallery/

And guess what, both cars have 7055 cm³. Both cars have a 722.3xx 4 speed auto transmission. Both have a LH motormanagement.

However, one engine stamp reads AMG 0103 7.0, the other reads AMG 0049 7.2.
They have a lot in commom. I wonder what the difference is.

 

[jhodg5ck]

This one is up for sale again.

https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/...searchId=43c72218-6437-198d-f9e5-3b92964ad163

But now i have a stamped engine number. And that, combined with the further information and images in the advertisement, proves a LH 7.0 does really exist.

The Fahrzeugbrief rates it at 525 PS. This car has 525 PS too.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3879438/1995-mercedes-benz-s-class/photo-gallery/

And guess what, both cars have 7055 cm³. Both cars have a 722.3xx 4 speed auto transmission. Both have a LH motormanagement.

However, one engine stamp reads AMG 0103 7.0, the other reads AMG 0049 7.2.
They have a lot in commom. I wonder what the difference is.

I'd love to gave a 7.x 140....giggity.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[weide1]

And from july 1996 is this M120 E70 Einführungsschrift.

View attachment 59196

And then there is this M120 E72 from 20/12/1994.

View attachment 59197

Exciting to complete the information bit by bit.

I add this pdf. M120 E72 ME version.

 

[gsxr]

In case anyone missed it:

1999 Mercedes-Benz SL 7.3S Brabus

Bid for the chance to own a 1999 Mercedes-Benz SL 7.3S Brabus at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #30,405.

bringatrailer.com

 

[kwontumspeed]

The more I look at this car the more I fall in love with it.

 

[jhodg5ck]

The more I look at this car the more I fall in love with it.

You should get it...we can race...

 

[weide1]

Is it only a matter of different kW and Nm? I also wonder why the first is well known and the second hardly.