Supercharged 1993 500E

[gerryvz]

Hello all:

Today I had the honor of being invited to the annual Oktoberfest celebration that is put on by the Texas German Autohaus (TGA), one of the largest indy MB repair shops in the Houston area.

I had heard through Dr. No that one of the two co-owners of the shop, Hans Richter, has owned a 500E for some years. Indeed, Hans' 500E was one of the first things I saw when I came into the shop for my first visit.

When I saw the car, it looked like an ordinary, stock 500E with Evo II wheels, with one exception. This was a row of obvious cooling holes drilled in the front spoiler of the car. It was only a small outer indicator of what was to come, once the shop foreman there opened the hood for me to see.

The car has an Albrex supercharger!!

Here are some photos of this beast. The first supercharged 500E that I've seen here in the US. And it's right here in Houston. TGA's owners told me that they have around 6-7 customers with 500Es, including a couple of red cars and a white one.

Enjoy the photos.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[chicky]

Thank you for sharing the pics Gerry, I've always wanted that system for my M119 960 + NO2

 

[Alpina]

Really great

ps,,, is there any information on engine output ,,, hp and tq

 

[maggot]

Looks lovely...any pics of the body mods ? I need all the extra cooling I can get.

 

[G Man]

Wish I could have seen that in person. Call me next time....

 

[G Man]

Just looked up their address. They are literally less than a mile from my office. I'll have to swing by and check it out.

 

[zman]

Sweet, nice to see there is one on this side of the pond.. Gerry, do you think Hans knows the specifics of dimensions regarding crank pulley, bracketry for blower ,etc..I would at some point go with a rotrex charger setup and having some machining specs would be killer information to facilitate installation..on a side note, is that the mass air relocated in the piping and did he do anything with the LH and injectors? peace.

 

[gerryvz]

GMan - I'm really sorry that I didn't think to call you. Next time I certainly will. Definitely stop in and speak with Hans. He's a nice guy - VERY German. Old-school German.

I'll get some more tech specs and details when I stop in again, which will be soon. There were so many people at Oktoberfest that I only got slices of Hans' time here and there throughout the day.

Here are more photos that I took at the event:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3 ... 8ecfb55d48

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[need2speed]

Any idea how me managed the fuel and ignition?

 

[500AMM]

Wow - great pics of the Albrex set-up! I have never seen detail pics of it before. Would be nice to see the performance numbers.

-arnt-

 

[J-Sauce]

Gerry, when you get a chance, please inquire about the price for installation and tuning of this kit! NOS is all fine and dandy, but more power ALLL the time, now that would be nice.

 

[gerryvz]

I haven't been back downtown (which is 30 miles -- albeit only a stone's throw by Tejas standards -- from my house) since I took these. I'm planning to go back to visit soon and ask Hans much more in terms of questions.

I'd think, from what I saw with regard to the custom-nature of this installation/adaptation, that it would be several thousand dollars on top of the cost of the hardware, for the install. Wouldn't be surprised to hear that the total was north of $7-8K in total.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[126v8]

7-8k$ is cheaper than a 6.0 isnt it?

 

[gsxr]

7-8k$ is cheaper than a 6.0 isnt it?

Yeah, by at least half. I've been more interested in supercharging (especially since used 5.0's are dirt cheap these days) but it requires far more custom fabrication, whereas the 6.0L uses off-the-shelf parts you can purchase (albeit at exorbitant prices).

 

[195910]

Any Dyno figures for this setup? 7-8K is not too bad, but with the added weight and piping hasssle it should be pumping out +370-90 on the rolling road.

 

[gsxr]

Any Dyno figures for this setup? 7-8K is not too bad, but with the added weight and piping hasssle it should be pumping out +370-90 on the rolling road.

I've never seen *any* dyno figures from a supercharged M119, just claimed power gains from the vendors selling the kits (Albrex, etc). Sure would be nice to get one on the dyno and see what it really does. I'd want a 30-40% gain to make it worth it (420-450hp at the crank).

 

[195910]

Yeah, 420-450Ps at the crank would beat most SRT8's, SS, and even C6 vettes. Thats the criteria to participate in the
DAWN RUN : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW3trMGoMdw

Last time I went with the SRT group (1:08).

 

[DerFuror]

...to participate in the DAWN RUN ...

I dreamed last night of a straightaway that had no end until the final shutdown. Now I know it exists! Nice!

That run also looks like the perfect place to prove if a performance chip does what the manufacturer claims...

 

[michel]

Gerry, when you get a chance, please inquire about the price for installation and tuning of this kit! NOS is all fine and dandy, but more power ALLL the time, now that would be nice.

The Konig kit would cost between 15.000 and 20.000 euro´s to get it installed on your 500e

Its cheaper to get a 6.0 liter in your car, I payed 4000 for that to adjust a 5.0 to 6.0 (its done by friends of me)

 

[gsxr]

Its cheaper to get a 6.0 liter in your car, I payed 4000 for that to adjust a 5.0 to 6.0 (its done by friends of me)

It's only cheaper if you can locate a good used 6.0L engine like you did... that's not an option in the USA, but in Europe it's definitely worth searching for!

 

[gerryvz]

I'll check with Hans to see what the power ratings are at. He's an old-school German engineer type, so there is no doubt that he has indeed dyno'd the car. To me there is no question that the car is pulling north of 400 HP at the crank though, if not well above that. I need to go down there and perhaps I'll take a lunchtime next Monday or Tuesday to do that. It's 15 miles from my office each way to get downtown so not the easiest thing to do (this is Texas, you know).

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Alpina]

I'll check with Hans to see what the power ratings are at. He's an old-school German engineer type, so there is no doubt that he has indeed dyno'd the car. To me there is no question that the car is pulling north of 400 HP at the crank though, if not well above that. I need to go down there and perhaps I'll take a lunchtime next Monday or Tuesday to do that. It's 15 miles from my office each way to get downtown so not the easiest thing to do (this is Texas, you know).

Cheers,
Gerry

I think Texas is bigger vs Europe

 

[G Man]

Any Dyno figures for this setup? 7-8K is not too bad, but with the added weight and piping hasssle it should be pumping out +370-90 on the rolling road.

I had the E55 in today for a little work and I got to spend quite a bit of time with Hans. He told me the S/C 500E dyno'd at 457hp. They had to mill down the pistons to reduce the compression. The car has gone through 2 resprays and currently has 247,000 miles on the odometer. He says that everywhere he goes, someone offers to buy it. I get the distinct feeling that he will be keeping it. He also told me about the superchargered 190 16v that he had previously owned. He said that car was running 1.5 bar and was nearly undriveable on the street. Sounds like a fun problem to have.

 

[gsxr]

Wow. I assume that's 457hp at the crank, correct? Which would be roughly 375hp at the wheels? That's crazy strong. Any idea what boost level he's running in the 500?

 

[gerryvz]

I happen to be heading into downtown to visit TGA later this week, so I'll ask Hans some additional questions. Thanks for the update Gary. Ya wanna get together soon?

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[195910]

I had the E55 in today for a little work and I got to spend quite a bit of time with Hans. He told me the S/C 500E dyno'd at 457hp. They had to mill down the pistons to reduce the compression. The car has gone through 2 resprays and currently has 247,000 miles on the odometer. He says that everywhere he goes, someone offers to buy it. I get the distinct feeling that he will be keeping it. He also told me about the superchargered 190 16v that he had previously owned. He said that car was running 1.5 bar and was nearly undriveable on the street. Sounds like a fun problem to have.

457hp is sweet. and with almost 400,000 Km its holding up fine.

I think it will be close with your EE5K, right ?

Gerry. Some more get us some more info please!

Regards

 

[126v8]

I called and talked to someone at TGA who said the supercharging required a new oil system (amongst other things like the low compression pistons) otherwise the crankcase is sucked dry.It is a big job, surely more than the $8k we thought but worth every penny for 475bhp!!The look of disbelief on peoples faces when you whip them in a debadged 124 .. priceless.

 

[gsxr]

Would TGA offer a supercharger installation on a 500E (with standard compression, so less power output)? If so, any idea on a cost for parts and/or labor? I wonder what had to be done for the oiling system. That sounds a bit odd... never heard of the M119 needing the oil system beefed up before!

 

[G Man]

I happen to be heading into downtown to visit TGA later this week, so I'll ask Hans some additional questions. Thanks for the update Gary. Ya wanna get together soon?

Cheers,
Gerry

Gerry
I'll be around this weekend and next as well. I'm only taking off the Friday before Festivus, and the Friday before New Years. Let me know.

 

[need2speed]

LOL, can we do "feats of acceleration" too?

 

[gerryvz]

Gary, sounds good. It's a small window but perhaps the day or two after Christmas would be best for me. I'll call you.

 

[ERASE]

wow what news

 

[chappardababbar]

Wow, guys this IS great news....

Also has anyone noticed that red pinstripe line on the left front fender, with the mercedes symbol, on the car above (first photo). I've never seen that before - it's pretty cool.

 

[gerryvz]

The red pinstripe on the fender is one of Hans Richter's personal "trademarks" -- he has put this on his cars for many years, even back in Germany.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[500AMM]

I called and talked to someone at TGA who said the supercharging required a new oil system (amongst other things like the low compression pistons) otherwise the crankcase is sucked dry.It is a big job, surely more than the $8k we thought but worth every penny for 475bhp!!The look of disbelief on peoples faces when you whip them in a debadged 124 .. priceless.

Hi.

I don't believe the crankcase will be sucked dry, but the oil sump ventilation must be changed to withstand the high vacuum on the inlet side. On mine it is installed a cyclone filter unit on the inlet hose on the charger. It's an OEM part A111 018 03 35. You can see the same filter unit used on the Albrex set-up too. (The König kit is in fact based on an Albrex kit.)

The charger inlet sucks air at high speed from the oil sump and the oil vapor leaves the oil moist in the cyclone filter and it runs down to the sump again. It functions very well and the inlet side on the charger is dry and clean. (the enclosed pdf. at bottom shows the cyclone filter set-up.)

-arnt-

 

[need2speed]

What's up with Conrad Gruber?

I recently emailed Conrad Gruber, the principal for Albrex Superchargers. Here is our conversation:

Albrex manufactured a supercharger kit for the Mercedes M119 5.0 litre engine used in the 500E and 500SL models of 1990-98. Do you still offer this kit? If yes, can you please provide details regarding components, performance and price?


Hello Mr. Albrecht

Yes we produce this kit and thanks for your interest.

The power goes up to 440 HP an the torque increase 150 Nm.

The kit includes about 120 parts , plates, pullys belt, supercharger, pipes. Houses. Intercooler, elektronic and a lot of other parts.

Also is a instrukionmanuell include.

The price oft he kit is for the export 9800.- euro without transport.

For further questions blease contact us again.

Best regards to Canada

Conrad Gruber


I followed-up with an email requesting more details on components and installation, but received no reply. Another email requesting a copy of the installation manual, list of components, or both, was met with silence as well. Has anyone of our German friends been able to visit his facility?

 

[500AMM]

Hi Dean.

Ha, Ha - this didn't surprise me. I've only spoken to Mr.Gruber on phone a couple of times. In fact he seemed to be very busy?! But I've also spoken to other people trying to get something out of that man, without luck. I've heard about a guy who drove from Germany to Austria, up in the mountains, just to visit Grubers workshop. Mr.Gruber knew about this long drive, but he hardly spoke to the person at all! Send the money - and you get the items, deal done with that guy. I would rather inquire König Specials, they do at least give you a nice conversation.


-arnt-

 

[gsxr]

Could be he doesn't want to provide more details so people can copy his work without actually buying the kit from him. Still, $10k EUR is less than previous estimates... and I sure like the power numbers.

 

[jano]

"elektronic" -- does that imply changes to the computer?

Hmmm..... that's not a bad price, about $13k usd.

 

[126v8]

I emailed a company in Japan that sells and installs theses schargers and the cost came to $44,444.00 at the exchange rate last month.This does include installation of low compression pistons though.Wonder what the cost of installing would be in the US?

 

[need2speed]

You would think that someone retailing a kit would have an info package prepared. Ideally the installation manual should be available for purchase, even if stripped of technical specs, so you can gauge what you are getting for your money and the amount of skill and time involved.

 

[RocketeerPerformance]

LOL. You sell your first kit and the "secrets" are out...the best way to protect your ideas in this day and age is not to sell a kit...

 

[gerryvz]

Went back to this year's edition of the Texas-German Autohaus "Oktoberfest" party today. Plenty of great German food, Flensburger Weissbier and cars. The event was co-sponsored by MBCA's Houston section.

Took my E500 again, and was invited by owner Hans Richter to give a "tech session" for the assembled group of about 75 folks on the 500E. The topic I did was about the history of the 500E and performance modifications available for the car. I had a RENNtech airbox, three different aftermarket EEPROMs, a BergWerks FGS box, and my Ingenieurburo Wilhelm V-Max removal box (TuV approved) on hand as props for my 20-minute speech.

Hans' supercharged 500E and C63 AMG were, of course, on premises as well.

Hans was hosting a nice contest for those present who wanted to try it: timing the removal and re-installation of the four spark plugs from an M116 cylinder head that was bolted down to a work bench. Most of the folks attending tried it, as well as Hans and his mechanics.

Hans himself took first place at 1 minute 17 seconds. One of his mechanics got second place with 1 minute 50 seconds. I got third place with 1 minute 51 seconds. Everyone else was well over two minutes to do the job. That tells you how good of a mechanic Hans is, that he beat the nearest folks by more than 30 seconds. He obviously earned the "Meisterbrief" that is proudly displayed on the wall of the TGA waiting room.

GVZ did the 500E community proud today

 

[126v8]

We needed info on the supercharger install.Maybe we can sell a kidney or something.Please see if you can wring out every drop of info about the setup ie price, harware,longetivity,pros and cons etc.Please, please.

 

[Miziev]

"elektronic" -- does that imply changes to the computer?

Hmmm..... that's not a bad price, about $13k usd.

Not bad, comparing to Koenig's price. I've wrote them а couple of months ago and here is what they said: "The Supercharger kit for 500E is Euro 15.000,--, producing 450 HP with 650 NM torque".

 

[gerryvz]

Hans told me last weekend, at the annual Oktoberfest celebration that his shop TGA puts on, that he has 265K on his supercharged 500E and that it's his daily driver (he also owns a C63 AMG). The 500E is his favorite MB of all time.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[195910]

GVZ any new info on the supercharging? price? kit availability ? ECU ?

 

[Jelmer]

I'll never be able to afford it, but each time I see this thread (or pics of Arnts car) I start drooling. Any more information very welcome.

Has he taken the time to dyno it? It strikes me as odd to invest so much money into a project, and not show accurate results.

 

[gerryvz]

Yes, he's dyno'd the car. To be honest though, I've never explicitly asked him what the figures are.

But.....I think it's already been reported already what the dyno stats are.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Jelmer]

That's a "he told me", followed up by an "I assume...". I meant the graphs