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The "Verboten Topics" Mother of All Threads

gerryvz

Site Honcho
Staff member
With my recent firearms posts here in my OWNER thread, I got a few PMs from people here on the forum who are extremely offended and emotionally upset by all things related to guns and weapons. It seems that all of my firearm discussion hurt some feelings and "triggered" some emotional reactions about the inherent evils of guns and how dangerous they are, how I'm glorifying a device that has no purpose in civil society, that guns are made only for killing people, and so forth.

So, to avoid further stomping on anyone's feelings, I guess I'll have to stop mentioning anything relating to guns, and keep my discussions strictly to cars and mechanical tools. :sniper:

Just got this link via an e-mail from MB Classic today.


The cover car looks VERY SUSPICIOUSLY like my old 300SEL 6.3 -- gray-blue metallic (DB906) exterior over a red leather interior. I guess I'll see for sure when I get the magazine in a couple of weeks in the mail. Only one or two of these cars were made in this color combination, so they are exceedingly rare. Originally my former car was the demo 6.3 for the MB San Francisco dealership (Van Ness), before being shipped up to Don Rasmussen Co. Mercedes in Portland, and sold to the original owner with a few thousand miles on the odometer.

From the front turn signals, this is very definitely a 1968 or 1969 model (mine was a 1969). The 15-inch "bundt" wheels are incorrect for the car, as they were not introduced until late in 1970, and are typically found on 1971 and 1972 6.3 models. However, they can be forgiven, because the up-sized 15" diameter affords a lot better choices of rubber than the stock 14" steel wheels with hub caps, found on the early 6.3s.

View attachment 119094


The latest issue of Mercedes Classic Magazine is out. Several interesting topics like interview of Mr. Aufrecht and Mr. Melcher from Affalterbach. In Marketplace there are one spread full of E500E adds.
Mercedes-Benz Classic Magazine.
@Efraim's post and link led me to click through to the cover article, and it shows that the gray-blue metallic (DB906) 300SEL 6.3 is NOT my former car, as it has a [more conventional] black leather interior rather than my car's red. Whew. Thanks Efraim for posting the link. Haven't received my copy yet, but I'm sure it's on its way. When I get it, I'll scan the E500E related classifieds and post.

The reversed gear-lever (with PARK at the BOTTOM of the shift gate) indicates that it is a much earlier 6.3 in the 1969 model year than my former car, which was made in July 1969, and had PARK at the TOP of the shift gate. This was a mid-year running change for the 1969 models, as were the window switches being moved from the doors to the center console. See image below for the shift-gate and window-switch reference.

assic-magazine-with-a-tank-full-of-blues-2560x2200.jpg
 
I'm offended by people being offended by the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution.

We cannot pick and choose which human/civil rights are "good" or "bad." It's a package deal. Part and parcel of living in this country.
That's not a political statement. That's a statement of fact.




Anyway, sounds like you need to invest in some humidity control equipment. Else the rust monster is going to continue attacking your belongings.
 
I'm offended by people being offended by the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution.

We cannot pick and choose which human/civil rights are "good" or "bad." It's a package deal. Part and parcel of living in this country.
That's not a political statement. That's a statement of fact.




Anyway, sounds like you need to invest in some humidity control equipment. Else the rust monster is going to continue attacking your belongings.
Yes, it does appear that there are some in the US (and on this forum) who feel that the second amendment should be repealed yesterday, and that no one in the US has the right to own a firearm. Because, Kumbaya.

Everything is stored in a humidity controlled environment (we had a humidifier and control system put in the house about 2 years ago), so I'm good. It was the 7 years in Texas that did a number on things, but those days are over :) The Maryland climate is also MUCH easier on my tools, too.

:tejas:
 
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Not repealed... just again limited to "a well regulated militia", like it was before a group of Reagan and Bush SCOTUS appointees construed the 2nd Amendment as if those words were no longer there... I'm often shocked by how many supposed 2nd Amendment advocates don't even realize that it didn't always grant private citizens ANY rights... the gun rights were strictly and consistently limited to "a well regulated militia" until as I pointed out earlier, SCOTUS in 2008 changed 70 years of precedent... and now we have yahoos roaming the streets with guns and MAGA hats... oh well, it is what it is, as @ace10 points out... see, Second Amendment, if interested.

But this is @gerryvz page, so I haven't bothered to comment on his other hobbies, much like I don't care for anyone commenting on mine.

BTW, congrats on your coming nuptials, @gerryvz ... it is written, "It is not good that man should live alone."

Cheers,

maw
 
Yes, it does appear that there are some in the US (and on this forum) who feel that the second amendment should be repealed yesterday, and that no one in the US has the right to own a firearm. Because, Kumbaya.
Just to illustrate how much things have changed .... I remember a long long loooooooong time ago when my dad went to K-mart .... in his brown Dodge Swinger with a white vinyl roof and slant-six ...... to buy his first .38 revolver!! I was probably preoccupied with the blue plate special at the time ..... and I’m fairly certain we did not avail ourselves of using the layaway plan.

I am not sure if this is possible anymore 🤣😂🤣😂🤣.... that was certainly a kumbaya-free time!
 
I think you meant "blue light special" although Kmart may have served lunch as well. Hurry over to aisle 3...

drew
 
Actually, Sears used to be one of the biggest sellers of firearms in the US, and they sold some pretty darned nice guns. This was back in the 50s, 60s and 70s. They sold FN (Belgian) manufactured Mauser rifles, and lots more. High quality stuff.

This, of course, was in the good old days. When people all over the US would drive around with guns in their truck's gun rack. When target shooting with REAL guns was commonly taught in public schools everywhere in America. When parents would give their kids guns and ammunition, and completely trust them with it. And before the Reagan and Bush SCOTUS appointees began ignoring the Second Amendment's "a well regulated militia" provision, because as we all know, people before that decision was made only owned guns for militia purposes. Because we were only a nation of "Minute-Men" gun owners until the Reagan-Bush SCOTUS era. Right? :stickpoke:
 
A trip down Americana lane...
The Kmart in my hometown is long gone. So is the Woolworths. And the Mammoth Mart. Ann & Hope, too. Benny's just folded this past year. Hardly any department stores remain there or anywhere.

Not to go on a full tangent... but one thing most of these stores had in common was an eatery/cafeteria.

I can't help but to ponder whether that's perhaps the key to getting in-store shopping back to some marginal state of health. Nordstrom continues to do it. Are they the last hold outs?

Why not offer decent quality cafe foods with perhaps a somewhat-healthy focus? Not a food court. Just a proper sit down meal service. It feels like with such a massive shake out of restaurants this year, why not try to bring back something that once worked so well in an attempt to save retail shopping?
 
This, of course, was in the good old days. When people all over the US would drive around with guns in their truck's gun rack. When target shooting with REAL guns was commonly taught in public schools everywhere in America. When parents would give their kids guns and ammunition, and completely trust them with it. And before the Reagan and Bush SCOTUS appointees began ignoring the Second Amendment's "a well regulated militia" provision, because as we all know, people before that decision was made only owned guns for militia purposes.

I don't know .... things seem so extreme these days.
  1. One the one hand you have folks that think that guns are an unspeakable evil and basically the devil incarnate.
  2. On the other hand you have wingnuts that play "solider" and walk around with open-carry AR-15s and body armor, intentionally "expressing" their right to bear arms and quite obviously trying to intimidate people.
There has to be a society that is willing to get back to a happy medium instead of being focused on thinking the other "side" is terrible. How do we get back to middle? How do we get back to a "civil society" happy with the pendulum swung back to the middle?

I posit that "unification" is built on some kind of shared background. In lots of countries, a shared ethnicity or a shared religion is the basis for this. In the USA (and in other places like the UK, and Australia), a shared ethnicity might have worked long ago, but this is no longer the case. In the absence of shared ethnicity, the next closest thing seems to be "shared trauma" --- i.e. shared perceived enemies. That's unfortunate ---- it seems like the lowest common denominator.

Anyways, I remember going to YMCA for summer camp as a young boy and shooting BB-guns. My family immigrated to the USA, and we were drinking up US culture ..... we didn't know what was "normal" and what wasn't "normal." For quite some time, I thought YMCA was the coolest place ever because I got to shoot BB-guns and practice archery!
 
A trip down Americana lane...
The Kmart in my hometown is long gone. So is the Woolworths. And the Mammoth Mart. Ann & Hope, too. Benny's just folded this past year. Hardly any department stores remain there or anywhere.

Not to go on a full tangent... but one thing most of these stores had in common was an eatery/cafeteria.

I can't help but to ponder whether that's perhaps the key to getting in-store shopping back to some marginal state of health. Nordstrom continues to do it. Are they the last hold outs?

Why not offer decent quality cafe foods with perhaps a somewhat-healthy focus? Not a food court. Just a proper sit down meal service. It feels like with such a massive shake out of restaurants this year, why not try to bring back something that once worked so well in an attempt to save retail shopping?
@ace10 I think you are on to something.

My local mall, Stonestown Galleria in San Francisco, has been undergoing massive change over the past several years. C19 seems to have put a pause to it, but it is undergoing big changes no less.

The two big department-store anchors, Macy's and Nordstrom, have closed. Clothing retailers like Banana Republic and Gap are closing. Olive Garden just closed.

New stores that have come in that are doing quite well are Trader Joe's (specialty grocer), Whole Foods (coming to take over Macy's space), Marugame Udon (from Japan / Hawaii --- super long lines), Blaze Pizza (build your own pizza - long lines), 85*C Bakery (From Taiwan --- long lines), Gram Cafe & Pancakes (from Japan), Cafe Maiko Premium Matcha (From Japan), Rooster & Rice (Chicken Rice Dishes), Yi Fang Fruit Teas (From Taiwan - Long lines), Uncle Tetsu (from Japan), Shihlin Street Snacks (from Taiwan), etc.

It seems very much that people go to the mall now for the food. The food selections are obviously biased towards catering to the tastes of the local populace (of course very very very heavy Asian influence here) but my point is that 20 years ago, this kind of hyper-targeting effort wasn't the case. 20 years ago it was all generic Sbarros, Great Steak Place, etc. 20 Years ago, the focus was retail #1, food #2.

Today it feels like people are going to the mall for food #1, and then retail #2. And the retail is stuff like Apple Store, Sees Candies (Berkshire Hathaway company, my favorite company in the whole world. :) ), Sports Basement (coming), Uni-Qlo (from Japan --- its basically the Gap of Japan and it is super duper popular), Zara, etc.
 
I do not feel that a shared ethnicity is an issue at all. It's a divergence in shared VALUES that has become the problem. It used to be that we were taught to love our country, its values, the Constitution, and the shared experience and the good fortunes of being born an (or an legal immigrant) American. In the last 4 years, publicly expressing any type of love for America is grounds for getting beat up in the street, or worse. Note what often happens to people who wear red MAGA hats.

The phrase "MAGA" was actually coined by Ronald Reagan in the 1980s. Back when it was cool to love your country. It was NOT invented in 2015-2016 by our outgoing President.

There is no longer any sense of community in this country, unless you are with members of your own "tribe." The media, social media, and politicians deliberately play to the worst instincts of human beings, to DIVIDE people based on their race, gender, ethnicity, sexuality, income, location, employment, social status/class, and many other ways. People bubble-up in their "tribal" echo chambers, which reinforces what they already see and believe.

This lack of any sense of coherence of the country, outside of pillared "tribes" of like-minded people, is why I have made the statement that we are headed for a Civil War. There are two very very different philosophies that have taken hold in this country, and increasingly we are seeing people fighting each other over them. Up to now, most of these battles have taken place in large, coastal cities.

But the eventuality of these battles to migrate outside of the cities, where they are not welcome, is what I am very very watchful of. Millions of Americans outside of the large coastal cities, are quietly prepared, and preparing, for this eventuality, when it comes. If the perpetrators keep their battles in the large cities, then the likelihood of a second Civil War lessens.

If you think what I'm saying is somehow radical, you would be shocked at what I heard from the gun store owner in the town of King George, Virginia last Friday (this just 70 miles south of Washington DC). Even I walked out of there and was whistling to myself under my breath. These people mean business, are dead serious, and they will not put up with city people trying to foist their will on them, riot and loot their stores, destroy their property and livelihoods, and so forth. These people will die for what they believe in. At least in Virginia, there is no love for the politicians in the counties around Wash DC and in Richmond. 10 years living in Texas, and now 3 years in Maryland, also reinforces this belief. People in western, northern, and southern Maryland think very very differently from people in Baltimore City, Baltimore County, and Prince Georges, Montgomery and Howard counties.
 
I do not feel that a shared ethnicity is an issue at all. It's a divergence in shared VALUES that has become the problem.
Right. I'm with you that there are not enough shared values in this country.

The observation that I am making is that if a country is mostly of one ethnicity/culture or mostly of one religion, then it is easier to have shared values.

Fifty years ago, this country had fairly strong shared values because:
1) Shared trauma (much of population were WW2/Korean War Veterans)
2) Shared ethnicity/culture (WASP was the one game in town ... and in the media)

These days, it is much harder to build a common foundation for shared values.

Up to now, most of these battles have taken place in large, coastal cities.

But the eventuality of these battles to migrate outside of the cities, where they are not welcome, is what I am very very watchful of.

Hey..... I am IN A COASTAL CITY and even I don't care for these stupid battles! 🤣 The hyper-woke have taken over here! 🤣
 
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You see what is going on right now in Portland? They have their own "Autonomous Zone" now. Within walking distance from my old house when I lived there.

That 13.5% income tax y'all fork over out there pays for a LOT of wokeness !!
 
I didn't go to K-Mart much when I was growing up,
The following stores were staples of my childhood - K-Mart, Value City, Zayre’s, Swallens, Kroger’s, Sears & Roebuck, and .... a little later, when we got a little more “bougie,” Service Merchandise. I was always fascinated with the way you had to wait for your items to appear on the conveyor belt at Service Merchandise.

All these stores represented America 🇺🇸 101 to me.

“Luxury” retailers like LS Ayers and Parisian were always out of reach.
 
A trip down Americana lane...
The Kmart in my hometown is long gone. So is the Woolworths. And the Mammoth Mart. Ann & Hope, too. Benny's just folded this past year. Hardly any department stores remain there or anywhere.

Not to go on a full tangent... but one thing most of these stores had in common was an eatery/cafeteria.

I can't help but to ponder whether that's perhaps the key to getting in-store shopping back to some marginal state of health. Nordstrom continues to do it. Are they the last hold outs?

Why not offer decent quality cafe foods with perhaps a somewhat-healthy focus? Not a food court. Just a proper sit down meal service. It feels like with such a massive shake out of restaurants this year, why not try to bring back something that once worked so well in an attempt to save retail shopping?
Growing up in New Orleans, we had a chain of Schwegmann Bros. grocery stores that had a 'Shoppers Bar' in the back. The stores were large and had anything and everything you could want including a full service bar. Ah, the good ol' days...

5d24e203b177a.image.jpg
 
The following stores were staples of my childhood - K-Mart, Value City, Zayre’s, Swallens, Kroger’s, Sears & Roebuck, and .... a little later, when we got a little more “bougie,” Service Merchandise. I was always fascinated with the way you had to wait for your items to appear on the conveyor belt at Service Merchandise.

All these stores represented America 🇺🇸 101 to me.

“Luxury” retailers like LS Ayers and Parisian were always out of reach.

Zayre's... damn, forgot all about them. They had the 2nd largest box at the local mall growing up. At an early age, perhaps 7 or 8 years old, I passed out inside the store. Something about the fluorescent lights in that particular store would trigger the reaction. Couldn't really ever go back in there.

Can't remember if they had any food service. Seems like they didn't.


And yeah, the smell of popcorn in Kmart. Absolutely the first thing that hit you when you opened the doors.


There was a one-off department store in the city. Saltmarsh's. It started off as a bookstore in the mid 1800s. Eventually became a multi-story department store during the middle of the last century. Long gone now. But they had a huge diner right inside the store. Seems like more stores had dining than didn't.
 
I don’t see any civil wars coming any time soon, quite frankly. I just see growing pains, from an era where “WASP was the only game in town” to a time where that isn’t and won’t be the case. Whether the country gracefully transitions there is the only real question. Those who are OK with that know America is already great, and that transition — evidenced by the Statue of Liberty — makes it so. The others, basically new century confederates, are having trouble. But change is inevitable... just ask Darwin. America will be fine. Most of us are the 80% within 2 standard deviations from the mean. It just so happens that the fringe folks make more noise, better “news” ... but even that grows old, as is happening this very moment. And as it does, the commonality of the 80% (the middle) becomes once again the dominant voice.

maw

PS Schwegmann and KMart threw me down memory lane... I grew up in Detroit, where I would see the elevator steward at JLHudsons and Mark “The Bird” Fidrych on the same weekend... I also watched them blow up that Hudson’s from my office to make way for new stadiums on land I helped acquire for the City... and today that space is what all “New Detroiters” rave about... change is inevitable, and when it’s done right it’s all to the good.
 
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C and in Richmond. 10 years living in Texas, and now 3 years in Maryland, also reinforces this belief. People in western, northern, and southern Maryland think very very differently from people in Baltimore City, Baltimore County, and Prince Georges, Montgomery and Howard counties.
Growing up in New Orleans, we had a chain of Schwegmann Bros. grocery stores that had a 'Shoppers Bar' in the back. The stores were large and had anything and everything you could want including a full service bar. Ah, the good ol' days...

View attachment 120073

@Kip, My Stepmom shocked my wife in Schwegmann's when she picked up a 6 pack of Dixie Beer and drank a couple of them while she was shopping.

@gerryvz, I think your on to something with the "Civil War".
Unfortunately, I do believe that some big event will happen in the near future that will change the course of America and it will end all of the far left liberalism and move back to the center or more to the right.

@Jlaa, We still have some huge shopping centers in Orange County but there are a lot of empty vendors now. We still have Macys and Nordstroms anchor stores here.
 
The following stores were staples of my childhood - K-Mart, Value City, Zayre’s, Swallens, Kroger’s, Sears & Roebuck, and .... a little later, when we got a little more “bougie,” Service Merchandise. I was always fascinated with the way you had to wait for your items to appear on the conveyor belt at Service Merchandise.

All these stores represented America 🇺🇸 101 to me.

“Luxury” retailers like LS Ayers and Parisian were always out of reach.

Many of the same for me growing up in the Midwest. Every major appliance in our house was from Sears or Kenmore brand. All of Dad's tools were Craftsman. We didn't patronize Zayre's or Kmart much, but I do recall them. L.S. Ayres was a staple for my Mom (yes, we were definitely part of their demographic) and I always loved going to the store in downtown Indianapolis because it had an escalator that went up/down three floors (cool!) and we got to eat at the Tea Room. I had totally forgotten about Service Merchandise.

I do agree that as we no longer have a common enemy as a country/society we've seemed to turn inward towards each other. Today, many people seem to view others through a lens of politics or a personal position. In the past this was present, no doubt, but it didn't seem to carry the weight that it does today. I have family members who are diametrically opposed in this area, and I've had to step in on more than one occasion to separate them and try to point out that we're family members FIRST, not political party members. In other words, respect the person and their right to hold whatever position they choose. Disagree, if you must, but do it respectfully. One family member in particular will immediately judge a person or question who they are based on their political orientation. I've cut that out on the spot, and told them to knock it off. I also point out the person's other traits - "Are those ways you want to judge people, too?"

It makes me sad. I have many good friends who hold views that don't align with mine. I don't care, that's not why we're friends. In nearly every case, our individual views don't matter, as that's not what we have in common. We might even joke about our differences...

Dan
 
There’s far left liberalism in America? I missed that one. All I see is the rich getting richer and everyone else pissed off.

maw
Yes there is. SF has lots of progressive “Democratic Socialists” running the show.
The current national situation is infuriating to middle-of-the-road folks like me because the uglier things get at a national level, the more severe the overreaction is at a local level.

As an example, hyper locally, there was a guy running for local office in Nov. He was a “moderate” democrat, and also gay. His platform was all about fiscal responsibility, reducing crime, and improving city services. He was leading the race until the last minute when he was targeted by a far left smear campaign, accusing him of being a monster heartless republican DINO (democrat in name only). He lost and now we have a Social Justice Warrior in office who was quoted on record for wanting to DISBAND (not just defund) the police. 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

I wish things would settle down nationally and that folks would stop being so angry with each other ..... because all this toxicity makes local politics go haywire.
 
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@LWB250 has nailed it for me... and @Jlaa what is a SJW?...

Part of why I focus on the commonality of the middle is because what you learn over history is Dem or Rep doesn't matter actually... whoever speaks to that 80% wins... the rest is just a power grab... one administration will pass the same laws they didn't let their opponent pass, just so they can take credit and their opponent cannot... it's all a BS trap for the unwary who just vote for whatever extremist view is closest to their own... so Warren/Sanders/AOC become the answer to Palin/Gingrich/McConnel, and on and on it goes... fringe issues driving fringe politics... none of it resonates with me... you do much better in life without extremist views, I've learned... you can't productively lead anything from a fringe, except a fringe.

maw
 
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I wish things would settle down nationally and that folks would stop being so angry with each other ..... because all this toxicity makes local politics go haywire.
Good luck.

As I said, there are two very different philosophies that have emerged in America, and that people are coalescing around. I'm just observing, I'm not proselytizing. I talk to A LOT of people from different backgrounds, I read A LOT of stuff from all across the spectrum, and I keep my eyes open as to what is happening out there.

I was just talking with my Mom yesterday about what has been happening in my hometown of Seattle (where she still lives). She was lamenting that she doesn't even recognize the city anymore, how it is run, its values, and so forth. I have to agree with her.

I once got a ticket for jaywalking in downtown Seattle, back in 1984. It cost me $13 to pay that infraction. But I never jaywalked again, basically even to this day. Today, they let a huge list of misdemeanors go in Seattle -- things like shoplifting and such. Jaywalking? Not even worth the time for a cop to stop someone for.

If having basic law and order, and not tolerating things like jaywalking or shoplifting or breaking into cars or assaulting cops or beatiung up other people (things which are actively dismissed in places like Seattle and Portland, if not prosecuted in the first place), are remnants of the "old" WASP society, and we have "evolved" beyond needing to prosecute people for these things as a society, then I don't want any part of it. I want a society that has laws that separates right from wrong, and if you mess up, you pay an (appropriate) consequence. No matter your color, sexuality, race, gender, caste, income, occupation, location, and so on. The law should be applied equally to all.

I do not know where this "extreme tolerance" philosophy comes from. But what I do know, from raising two kids, is that if you "tolerate" things as a parent, then it does not teach right from wrong, and encourages greater and greater efforts to push the boundaries and "tolerate" further, more egregious, behavior.

There is one political mentality, and philosophy, that allows this. As @Jlaa says, it is endemic in many of our large coastal cities and a few in the central US. There is another political mentality, and philosophy, that does not subscribe to this. And people are being forced to choose one or the other, or they are social-media-ridiculed, beaten or cancelled into submission.
 
Listen to LESS NEWS and you will be
LESS ANGRY:)

For the last few years all you get on the news is opinions from BOBBLEHEADS that want to control you or frighten the hell out of us.

95% of the news is NEGATIVE:mad:. The local news in LA is a JOKE. We seldom see GOOD NEWS anymore.

We get a couple of murders and sometimes a two hour car chase and the same weather every 15 minutes starting at 4:00 PM in the afternoon until 6:30 PM with all sorts of chit-chat and meaningless information instead of news. For a while we got LA Mayor Garsetti for a half hour talking about the Covid Pandemic.

IMOP, Your better off NOT WATCHING NEWS You will see LESS STRESS in your LIFE:giggle:

Enough Said
 
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@gerryvz This speaks to the very heart of our problems today. Weather it be children or unscrupulous adults, if no consequences are delivered for bad behavior things get out of hand exponentially quickly. One person that chooses to disregard the rules and the values that lead to those rules and they affect a thousand. This condition has played out many times over through history. I have experienced a 180 degree change in my lifetime of morals and values and the way society looks upon these changes. This goes beyond politics. Todays young adults have seen that immoral behavior pays. This always ends the same. Combine this issue with a populace that puts little value on learning and gets most of its' information from the same propaganda sources and we have real trouble that's not going away soon. I have always been an optimist but a realist first.

I want to add... This subject is most important to me. I have been reading alternative information sources for 15 years. I feel it is everybody's responsibility to pay attention and learn. Engage in critical thinking. We owe it to our children (I have none) and to ourselves. Turn off your television and read. Talk to your friends.

drew
 
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Listen to LESS NEWS and you will be
LESS ANGRY:)........IMOP, Your better off NOT WATCHING NEWS You will see LESS STRESS in your LIFE:giggle:
Ain't that the truth. When I was a kid, I was encouraged to read the local paper, Newsweek, Time Magazine, etc. Now ...... I read "The Economist" and that's pretty much it. But geez, its so dry. What am I supposed to encourage my kids to read? I'm at a loss :-(

I have always been an optimist but a realist first.
I am not naturally an optimist, but one quality of American culture that I have always admired is near-unbridled-optimism. This is in contrast to say, German culture, which I find has pessimism permeated throughout. 🤣 Anyways, I find Americans are generally optimistic (I hope we don't lose this optimism given the current very-challenging-political-climate) and I would like to see our new president-elect select advisors / cabinet members that are moderates from both sides of the political aisle.

I would like to see both R and D in positions of authority at the national level .....

I think that would be a great step in ratcheting down the extremism on display.
 
Ha! Apparently I don't watch enough news... in reality I probably read too much business news and not much of any other kind.

I see two basic world views at play... one views the US as the Titanic sinking, and thinks its time to start rationing out the life boats... while the other is sitting there saying "what TF are you talking about? We're ship builders, not a sinking ship. Ship building is what we do, not ration life boats. We've been building ships since the beginning and this isn't the year we stop."

How you view this depends upon which camp you're in. I'm certainly not in the former. Never have been and never will be.

maw
 
Ha! Apparently I don't watch enough news... I see two basic world views at play... one views the US as the Titanic sinking, and thinks its time to start rationing out the life boats... while the other is sitting there saying "what TF are you talking about? We're ship builders, not a sinking ship. Ship building is what we do, not ration life boats. We've been building ships since the beginning and this isn't the year we stop."

How you view this depends upon which camp you're in. I'm certainly not in the former. Never have been and never will be.

maw

+ sixty gazillion. We need more of @maw1124's attitude. Everywhere. Regardless of how wrong he is with that w220 of his. Everyone makes mistakes. :stickpoke:
 
As a non American living in the US (15+ years), the one thing that sticks out to me is the two party system. It's gotten the country this far, so I get the desire to keep it, but it seems to serve the two main parties more so than the populace at large. Other countries with multi party systems (and proportional representation, ranked choice, etc) seem to have more cooperation and less polarization, as it's hard for any one party to accomplish things without substantial help from other sides, and there's more incentive to get things done so you have a list of accomplishments to point to vs being able to blame the other side for grid lock. Of course, Q Anon is now popular in Germany so what do I know...
 
Other countries with multi party systems (and proportional representation, ranked choice, etc) seem to have more cooperation and less polarization, as it's hard for any one party to accomplish things without substantial help from other sides,
OMG @dionphaneuf ranked-choice-elections are EXACTLY what has gotten our local politics here in SF into the absurd state that it is in. RCVoting is so complex that 99.99% of the voters don't understand it, and this is what caused, locally, a gay-middle-of-the-road fiscally conservative democrat who won the most number of 1st place votes to lose to a socialist who did not get the most number of first place votes..... because the "progressive socialists" figured out how to game the RCV system by throwing up multiple candidates every election, who then convince the befuddled electorate to give eachother their 2nd, 3rd, 4th choice votes....

To everyone out there --- DO NOT implement ranked choice voting. Places like Maine are trying to implement it. It is pox on society. DANGER. (OK I'll get off my soapbox now)....
 
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Congrats, Gerry!

To continue the discussion while not sounding like the old duffer on the corner yelling at the neighbor kids to keep off his grass, I have great concerns about the younger folks in our society. They've been raised on a much different set of values that many of us were (I'm a Baby Boomer, like a number of folks here) which seem far different than the ones I have.

That being said, we worked hard to impress upon our children the value of hard work, being honest, and treating others fairly and with compassion. When they were little the question would often come up, "Why can't I do what so and so is doing?" and the response would be, "Because we have higher standards" or Because we have different values". That would be followed with an explanation. It wasn't welcome in many instances, but I'm pleased to see some 20+ years later the both have turned out to be pretty good people for the most part. I would like to think I had a significant part in that. My favorite anecdote is when a fellow teacher I worked with at my son's school said to me, "He's so polite - Yes ma'am, no ma'am, and he opens the door for me." My response? "Thank you for the complement. And if you ever see him not doing those things, I need to be the first to know, because there will be consequences." :)

I didn't see much of this when we were raising our kids. Accepting responsibility, recognizing that one doesn't always come out ahead, and that failure is acceptable as long as you use it as a means of learning. I think the lack of these in our moral fiber has weakened the country as a whole.

The ability to think independently is another one. Portions of the media are engaging those who are less inclined to think independently and whipping them into a frenzy. These folks are easily swayed and as a result accept a given media's angle as gospel without applying any logical thought process. The term "sheeple" comes into play here.

I have a family member who is a hard core Fox News follower. We've had numerous discussions with them about things they've seen that are clearly not true and can be easily dispelled. However, when we've simply asked them to consider the offsetting data, they immediately retreat behind "fake news" or some other bizarre deferral. Pretty tough to deal with that.

I think we'll be OK in the long run. Democracies are regularly tested in many ways, and those that endure do so for a reason.

Dan
 
I’m glad you’re so optimistic, Dan.

That same attitude you talk about that is so endemic to and now ingrained in today’s youth, I see in my own children (21 and 17). I tried very hard to set a good example and live & demonstrate the values I was taught.

Unfortunately my ex-wife actively worked to undermine this. She and I were not aligned, as parents need to be. 50% my fault. My children chose the easy (“do what you want to do”) path of my ex-wife upon our divorce some years ago, and told me (literally and figuratively) where to stick it. Fully aided and abetted by their aunt (mom’s sister). And so, I have no (zero) relationship with them. Despite the fact that I still support them (child support for my daughter and medical insurance for my son and daughter). But that gravy train will end soon enough. They EXPECT what I give them, never expressing thanks or gratefulness, only the anger and hate they learned from my ex-wife.

I figure that if by the time they turn 30 that there is no relationship with them, their disownment by me will be complete. I am not one for third and fourth chances when one goes way out of their way to disrespect a parent. I maintain dignity — and standards — and will not bend.
 
Sheesh! I was going to comment on how much, while not being a ‘gun guy’, I appreciated your ‘rifle-resto’ post honch, but that was like 50 posts ago now! 🤣 The history and detail coupled with a window and insight into high build quality will always pull me in. Well done!

A couple of observations to make on the current dialog:
1) I think a lot of the furor and exasperation you see being expressed is directly related to a real 'awakening' (if you will) regarding the fact that dynamic that currently exists, (and has existed now for centuries in this country) does not treat everyone equally. that fact. As a WASP male myself, I'll admit I was blind to that for a long time, but the events of the last year specifically have (or at least started to) open my eyes to the fact that we don't all begin life on the same START line. This is quite hard to accept, as I think most of us have been raised to respect and believe that in the US: 'Well... if you just work hard enough, you'll make it'. In my opinion, this overlooks and trivializes all of the additional work required by some individuals who started behind the rest of us in this race and eventually pulled even, and leaves those that wern't given the right opportunities or gifted with the rightr skillset to 'catch up' as easy targets for demonization. This unfortunately is going to be a lot of hard work to make adjustments to attempt to level the playing field there, and its not going to be fun or pretty for anyone. I do not have any good solutions.
2) I personally struggle to understand the perspective of those individuals that have a viewpoint opposed to mine, and I don't think I am alone in that feeling based on the current national tenor of conversation, supplanted by the replies from a lot of you in this thread above. I certainly don't know how we got here, but to me (personally) it feels like we've gotten to the point where the items and subjects we are discussing are so self-evident in their acceptability or repulsiveness that there is very little to be gained from further conversations on the subject. It's quite a depressing place to be given the fact that if discussions aren't productive, then what else is there?

Anyway, I want to add that I really appreciate all the sharing here, regardless of whether or not we're politically aligned. Its hard and uncomfortable to contribute to these conversations, but they are essential, and possibly the only way to reverse my morose observations in Number 2 above. lol. You gents are a fine bunch!
 
Sheesh! I was going to comment on how much, while not being a ‘gun guy’, I appreciated your ‘rifle-resto’ post honch, but that was like 50 posts ago now! 🤣 The history and detail coupled with a window and insight into high build quality will always pull me in. Well done!
Interestingly, the US military did some stress-testing on the Arisaka rifles after the war, along with other common bolt-action rifles such as the US M1903 Springfield and the German Kar98K Mauser. They found that the Japanese Arisaka was by far the STRONGEST and most robust bolt-action rifle ever made, in terms of being able to handle very "hot" (over-loaded with gunpowder) bullets. A testament to early 20th Century Japanese engineering.

1) I think a lot of the furor and exasperation you see being expressed is directly related to a real 'awakening' (if you will) regarding the fact that dynamic that currently exists, (and has existed now for centuries in this country) does not treat everyone equally. that fact. As a WASP male myself, I'll admit I was blind to that for a long time, but the events of the last year specifically have (or at least started to) open my eyes to the fact that we don't all begin life on the same START line. This is quite hard to accept, as I think most of us have been raised to respect and believe that in the US: 'Well... if you just work hard enough, you'll make it'. In my opinion, this overlooks and trivializes all of the additional work required by some individuals who started behind the rest of us in this race and eventually pulled even, and leaves those that wern't given the right opportunities or gifted with the rightr skillset to 'catch up' as easy targets for demonization. This unfortunately is going to be a lot of hard work to make adjustments to attempt to level the playing field there, and its not going to be fun or pretty for anyone. I do not have any good solutions.
Some of my earliest memories are of growing up in small-town Philadephia, Mississippi, where we moved when I was a year old (I was born in Tacoma, and my father was transferred from Weyerhaeuser's Tacoma HQ to run a sawmill in rural Mississippi). If you ever saw the movie "Mississippi Burning," it took place literally in the small town where we lived. One of the Neshoba County sheriff's deputys who was guilty of Federal crimes lived just a few houses down the street from us. He was in Federal Penitentiary while we lived there, but my folks knew his wife, and my older sister played with his son. We lived there until I was six years old, in 1973, when we moved BACK to Federal Way, WA, where I grew up and into the home where my mother still lives.

This was just a few years after the South was de-segregated. We were Yankees living in the Deep South, and as such deeply suspect. We were not particularly welcome among the natives, though we were white, of course. I remember as a very young boy that when my mother and I would walk down the street, that people of color would cross the street and walk on the other side (or in the middle of the street). I remember asking my mom why that was. There were Klansmen who worked in my father's sawmill. The bodies of the civil rights workers who were killed in Mississippi Burning were found in an earthen dam, on Weyerhaeuser property (before we moved there, of course).

It is a fact of life, that life does not treat everyone equally. I am not as rich as Bill Gates or my boss Larry Ellison. Or even a fraction as rich as our resident high-tech tycoon @Jlaa or our investment genius @maw1124. Not all of us have 170 level IQs. I accept that. I also did not work as hard as I could have, to get into a prestigious taxpayer-funded University such as the US Naval Academy, located just 1.5 miles from where I sit. I am OK with that. My grandfather grew up on a farm in rural Fruitland, Idaho (not too far from the @gsxr global headquarters), quite poor, but yet my grandfather qualified for and attended the USNA, MIT, and University of Washington (where he met my grandmother).

That said, I am also not ashamed of, and will NEVER be cowed by, people who say that I am the beneficiary of "white privilege" and do not deserve what I have rightfully earned in my life. Nor that I should be mandated to give some of what I have, or what my parents and ancestors rightfully earned, to others less fortunate than I as "reparations." Nope. If some people want to do this, fine. Do we see Warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Elon Musk, Steve Ballmer, Barack Obama, and others giving their earned fortunes away as "reparations" to minority communities? Perhaps they give to some charities, perhaps to some organization who create cures for nasty diseases, perhaps to fight the global pandemic, but they do not give their fortunes away as reparations because they feel guilty to be well-off.

As I said, I will give away what I want to, to organizations I want to, to causes I care about and/or that are impactful. But I will NEVER NEVER NEVER part with money as a mandated "reparation" or as a "guilt payment" to something that I had nothing to do with. Do folks like Gates and Bezos and Obama (remember that Obama is the son of a privileged Kenyan father and American mother from a relatively wealthy white family, not a descendent of African-American slaves) pay reparations to descendents of Southern slaves? As a present-day German, should you feel direct guilt for something that happened generations before you? As a present-day American, should you feel direct guilt for something that happened many generations before you?

Only you can answer this question, in a very personal sense. But for me, I will not feel guilt about something that I had nothing to do with, that is for sure.

Does the fact that person A has a 170 level IQ, and is able to make a good living with it, make him "liable" to pay reparations to someone with a 100-level IQ? The 170 and 100 IQ people didn't have control over their IQ -- they were born with it. But where does it say that someone who is naturally advantaged should "owe" something to those who aren't.

What about someone who has MS, or Alzheimer's. Should people who don't get these diseases "owe" something to people who do? Or what about drug addicts, or alcoholics. Does someone who has an alcoholic gene, get "owed" something from those who don't? It's a damned, slippery, slope.

2) I personally struggle to understand the perspective of those individuals that have a viewpoint opposed to mine, and I don't think I am alone in that feeling based on the current national tenor of conversation, supplanted by the replies from a lot of you in this thread above. I certainly don't know how we got here, but to me (personally) it feels like we've gotten to the point where the items and subjects we are discussing are so self-evident in their acceptability or repulsiveness that there is very little to be gained from further conversations on the subject. It's quite a depressing place to be given the fact that if discussions aren't productive, then what else is there?

Anyway, I want to add that I really appreciate all the sharing here, regardless of whether or not we're politically aligned. Its hard and uncomfortable to contribute to these conversations, but they are essential, and possibly the only way to reverse my morose observations in Number 2 above. lol. You gents are a fine bunch!

We all struggle to understand the perspectives of those who have opposing viewpoints to ours. That is human nature.

The key, is to LISTEN, to ACKNOWLEDGE, and to try to find common ground. As opposed to a blanket "shut you down" attitude of invalidity and dismissal as the enemy.

And that is the problem. It used to be that people could find common ground. But the media and social media echo-chambering have caused people to self-insulate into their own bubbles, and reinforce the concept that if you want to try to find common ground, you are basically equivalent to the opposing side....you are just as bad as the other side. And in some circles, they will reinforce this with physical violence, looting, rioting, property destruction. Driven in large part by fomented jealousy and envy.

And this is what some Americans cannot and will not tolerate. And why, if this attitiude spills out of the cities, that there will be a literal Civil War — unfortunately a bloodbath — in this country.
 
I've never felt privileged, maybe because my parents made it clear that we kids had to make our own way, and while they would help us somewhat, the ultimate results were of our own doing.

My Dad was an executive VP at GM in the 1960s, and as a result, did quite well. Pretty much the textbook nuclear family of the 50s-60s. Mom stays home to raise kids, Dad come home every evening to an adult beverage and dinner, etc., etc. There is no doubt my Dad could have paid the way for all of us kids had he chosen to, but he didn't. He did cover our education, if we were so inclined, but after that you were on your own.

We all got a car when we were driving age, but it wasn't anything fancy - my sister's first car was a Renault Dauphine, my brother's a VW Beetle, and mine, a Ford Maverick. All nice cars for the time, but before we got behind the wheel we had read, understood and signed an agreement we help craft that laid out how we were paying for the half of the car's cost we were responsible for. Everybody worked in high school and paid their own expenses. Some of us, like my brother and I, started working at age 14 in agriculture, often before school in the morning and after school and the weekends. There was absolutely nothing that required we do this - it was expected - you want money to spend? Earn it.

Were we privileged? By most standards, I guess we were, but I never felt like it. I had to bust my ass to earn a buck at the time, and that was expected. Had I been in a real pinch for some reason I'm sure my folks would have stepped up and helped out, but that never occurred. I've held the same standards for my own kids for the most part. I don't think they're unreasonable.

That and people tend to appreciate the things they have far more when they were the ones who earned them.
 
Jesus, @LWB250... I guess I know how my kids will talk about me... while I'm no one's corporate executive, kids generally have to earn what they want... I grew up poor so I give them enough to keep them focused... they're not worried about the right shoes, clothes or cars... and of course all tuition and fees have been courtesy of the Bank of Dad... so they can focus on higher level thoughts... but failure to so focus is clearly their problem not mine.

I'm gonna go back to ... "America will be fine"... as long as we just keep making ships (opportunities, allegorically).

maw
 

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