Transmission problem -- VERY reluctant to upshift

[Maui]

Sounds vaguely sexual.....

You're always attacking my hobbies.

 

[Maui]

Well, I spoke to Mike at Burback Motors and he told me they have run into this exact same issue a number of times. He said if the shift rod has a little different bend on it that it will mess with the way the car goes into gear. He recommended I reinstall the old shifter and see if it fixes the problem. I will try this tonight and see.

 

[gerryvz]

Dont throw out your back ... need to stay in good shape for those "other" activities.

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[Maui]

Dont throw out your back ... need to stay in good shape for those "other" activities.

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I appreciate your looking out for me. Swapping out the shifter from the driver's seat is not that bad. Sort of like having sex in the back seat, but not as rewarding.

 

[gerryvz]

Sort of like having sex in the back seat, but not as rewarding.

You should try it in a 560SEL ... with both heated and reclining rear seat. V126 FTW !!!

 

[Maui]

I reinstalled the old shifter tonight and the exact same result. Does not want to go into fourth unless I bump it up to neutral and back to drive. I am wondering if I didn't booger up the FGS module and its just wants to stay in low. Very strange considering I drove it 200 miles one day and worked perfectly. The next day for no apparent reason it does this.

I know where there's an R129 trannie with 45k on it for $500. Starting to think I should grab it.

 

[Maui]

I took my car the trannie shop today expecting the worst. The guy looks at the shift gate, sticks a philips in it, clicks something and says ho drive it. I take it for a spin and it shifts perfectly. So, I danced away like snoopy catching snowflakes on his togue.


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[gerryvz]

Good it's resolved. Evidently something got out of alignment when you installed that shift knob. Didn't think it would be a major issue.

 

[vatc5637]

Did the gentleman at the transmission shop ever explain to you what he actually did? or how that resolved your 3-4 upshift issue?

 

[Maui]

He said the fgs was forcing the trannie into down shift


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[gsxr]

Bizarre. I've had the BergWerks FGS "stick" on and the result is very, very weird behavior... not at all what you described with normal operation other than lack of 4th gear. Hmmm. You do have a different FGS controller though.

 

[Maui]

I'm tickled that it was so simply. I always felt it would be just because of well it was shifting. Now I can't wait ti get back from Vegas just to drive it again.

 

[Maui]

Back from Vegas. I attended the SEMA show and the Cigar Aficionado Big Smoke event. Great time catching up with old friends, great food, lots of mojitos and cigars. Back to work tomorrow. Planning to drive the 500E.

 

[Stevester 500E]

Gerry,

Does the crossover pipe have to be removed for the transmission service.
I am planning on doing a service soon.
Do I the parts list correct?
Fluid, Filter, and pan gasket.
Does the TC drain plug/bolt have to be replaced?

Thanks

 

[gerryvz]

I think a couple of people here have done it without removing the pipe. I don't see how, honestly. It is NOT a huge deal to do -- much less daunting that it seems. It's only four bolts. The last time I did it, I had ordered brand new bolts (though you can certainly re-use your old ones).

Transmission fluid
Filter -- this is specific to the E500E and R129 -- has a 129 part number. My spare filter is an Elring brand
Pan gasket -- get a factory or quality aftermarket rubber unit. NOT cheap.
Drain plugs/washers -- at minimum get 2 new washers for the torque converter and pan drain plugs. While you're at it, buy a couple of new plugs too. Often the hex head is stripped from loser mechanics.

I advise you to use a LARGE drain pan, and put down at minimum a 4' x 4' square of newspaper under the car, at least 3-4 layers thick. I use a disposable plastic painting drop-cloth - works well. Use a cheap plastic or paper funnel to catch the stream of fluid draining from the TC or pan, helps minimize splashing.

 

[Stevester 500E]

Gerry, You weren't too happy to find a Meyle filter. I imagine they use very low quality filters at Jiffy Lubes right?
Is there ever a time to use a cheap filter?

 

[gerryvz]

Gerry, You weren't too happy to find a Meyle filter. I imagine they use very low quality filters at Jiffy Lubes right?
Is there ever a time to use a cheap filter?

I have never once in my life gone to a jiffy lube, so I wouldn't know. Considering the price of a MANN transmission filter is $15 or under, I can't imagine why someone would use a "cheap" filter. AHAZ and Amazon sell the good quality filters for pretty cheap.

 

[Stevester 500E]

I didn't realize the MANN filters were that inepensive. Thanks.

 

[gerryvz]

A proper Elring transmission filter for the E500E (which is different from those that fit regular 722.3s...although they will fit and work on the E500E) is here, for $22.50:

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pr...ransaxle System&gid=10964@Transmission Filter

You can see here that the regular 722.3 Mann filter is $11 and change, and even the regular MB filter is under $30.

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pr...ransaxle System&gid=10964@Transmission Filter

If/when you replace the transmission filter, BE SURE to replace the pan gasket at the same time (Woco aftermarket or OE are best) as well as the copper washers for the pan and torque converter drain plugs.

Cheers,
Gerry

 

[Mish_Mish]

Greetings from piping hot Ohio! I got my German market '91 500e out of storage and going through all the post storage maintenance. It appears that I am experiencing some of the same transmission shifting symptoms. The vehicle would drive fine before full warm up, however shifting while timely, is a little on the firm side. After full warm up, a totally different story, transmission would not upshift past the second gear, today it even downshifted into first and stayed there. Also, I am experiencing a delay between D and R and wise versa, which increases as the fluid gets hotter.
Things that I did:
- flushed fluid with Amsoil OEM (Dexron 2-3), twice drain and fill
- changed filter (Mann that came out of my trans was in near perfect shape, but I had no knowledge of the age. In the pan I found very little metallic residue and no metal shavings in the filter paper. Only a few tiny shred of some no metal black material. There was some metallic in the the fluid, but nothing more than typical.
- I took out valve body and checked layers for excessive metal accumulation (very little residue). For some reason there were no magnets in the oil pan, is this normal? I put couple of good ones in there.
- reassembled everything, used Amsoil again and things did not get better.

I checked vacuum line, all tight.
Next step I am thinking of using old school mineral Dexron II, perhaps a high mileage vehicle version, to see if viscosity will help. My mileage is 77k km, but the age is 34 However, I recently rebuilt a 722.3 in my G36, which lost reverse seal and I used Amsoil OEM fluid. that car has 179k km and shifts flawlessly after the rebuild (which was theoretically easy but very tedious and hard for a first timer).

What do you gentlemen think, is another 722.3 rebuild party upon me, or perhaps and early transmission simply hates thin fluids?

 

[gsxr]

Viscosity change won't help.

Magnets were not used on the 722.3/.4/.5 transmissions, magnets didn't show up until the 722.6 IIRC. Always good to add them.

Delay into reverse may indicate worn reverse clutch discs; however a delay into drive is odd.

Overall it sounds like possibly a valvebody issue. Did you take off all of the side covers to inspect for broken springs? Any chance you have a spare VB to swap in?

 

[Mish_Mish]

Viscosity change won't help.

Magnets were not used on the 722.3/.4/.5 transmissions, magnets didn't show up until the 722.6 IIRC. Always good to add them.

Delay into reverse may indicate worn reverse clutch discs; however a delay into drive is odd.

Overall it sounds like possibly a valvebody issue. Did you take off all of the side covers to inspect for broken springs? Any chance you have a spare VB to swap in?

Thank you for your reply. It sure seems that I am dealing with lack pf pressure for modulation. First I thought it had to do with clogged filter, or clogged internal valve body filter, but it is no it. Now I am thinking viscosity is the issue, so I might have weak pump. Which meant that 722 has to come out ;(

 

[gsxr]

I've never heard of a weak pump. There aren't pump components that wear out. I'm suspicious something else is going on, but I'm not sure what.

Long shot would be a failing vacuum modulator.

@Klink? Any ideas?

 

[Mish_Mish]

I've never heard of a weak pump. There aren't pump components that wear out. I'm suspicious something else is going on, but I'm not sure what.

Long shot would be a failing vacuum modulator.

@Klink? Any ideas?

Thanks again. It sure seems that something is not sealing well in the valve body, since I have no slippage or any noticeable debris in the the pan. Perhaps it is time for valve body off 420e?

 

[Mish_Mish]

Little update. I have drained Amsoil fluid, what I could from pan and by removing filter, came up to about 4 liters. Instead I used mineral Valvoline Dexron 2-3, cheapest kind at Autozone and Dex 2-3 compatible Lucas friction modifier (to compensate for the rest of thin Amsoil fluid). She started shifting as good, or little better as before. Very pleasant 3-4 transition and excellent shift point, though little bumpy from 1-2, as always. There is a little pause between D - R - D on a fully warmed up vehicle, about one second. Now I am thinking if the top end of the box is fine, will replacing a valve body help? Does 722.365 interchange with 722.4 valve body? Thanks again.

 

[gsxr]

722.3 and 722.4 valve bodies do not interchange. And, they are all different based on the engine as well.

You need a valvebody from a 722.3 with M119 engine.

 

[Klink]

I just wrote you a great message and accidentally zapped it. I do not have the time to redo it right now. The extremely shortened version is this: Severe malfunctions like the ones you're describing are almost never caused by the valve bodies, and that statement would be even more accurate if I removed the "almost" Before you do anything else, unplug the kickdown solenoid and drive the car. Let me know the result.

 

[gsxr]

Thank you for the info, Klink!