Re: OWNER - KarlC - 3rd times the charm ?
This will be my last post on the topic, but I want to back up my earlier points, where questioned.
I don't understand where you're getting "blame" and "unhappy" from. I'm well aware of how negotiations and sales work; this wasn't my first car, nor was it my first nice old Mercedes, nor the first car I had sold. I never said anyone held a gun to my head, and I'm not "blaming" anyone for anything. I'm just expressing my views, which, I'm sure you'll agree, is protected by the First Amendment and all. You're being way too defensive about this, unfortunately.
Here are your exact words from your Benzworld post:
There was even a thread started on this topic a few months back (though maybe it was on the 500E board, not here -- can't remember).
Having sold my pristine, low-mileage 500E a few months ago, I've had some recent experience with being beaten up on pricing by fellow forum members. While there were a number of helpful comments, there were also some people who didn't just nit-pick everything, but also jumped to incorrect conclusions with such self-assuredness at times that I found myself a bit disoriented. Example: they mistook a shadow on the coolant reservoir for "low coolant level" and just ran with that as if it were a fact. In the end, I think all the criticism did have an effect on how flexible I was with my asking price, but at least my 500E went to a good home.
You were DIRECTLY referring to this forum (you even named it by name), and you were obviously unhappy with the comments made here about your car. You also directly stated that the comments (criticism?) posted here did negatively affect your asking/final negotiated price. Obviously since you brought it up, you were unhappy about it -- your asking price expectations weren't met. I am not upset or defensive about this at all, as you claim I am. In actuality, I am happy and proud that we have members here who care enough, and know enough, about the cars that they care to post cars here that they come across for sale, and knowledgeable members chime in with their observations and comments. Boy, I don't think you'd like to see the database of about 700 500Es that I've maintained for the past 10+ years that have come up for sale, with my comments about them.
Furthermore, you stated that there was a "lukewarm" reception to your car both here and at Benzworld. Do you think this could have been because your description of the car, lack of detailed photos and information, and other selling strategy didn't meet the needs and expectations of potential buyers? If a car is truly pristine (and I'm not judging yours because I've not seen it personally for about 9 years), wouldn't you want to show that off photographically as much as possible in a forum post or advertisement? Or on a web page with a few dozen photos of your car? Conversely to your situation, I have seen PLENTY of mediocre cars get TOP DOLLAR simply because they were completely documented textually and with excellent photography, and sold in the right venues.
The "blame" comment comes from your Benzworld post, and your previous comments about the issues that caused you to come down off of your initial asking price. You can't blame any factors for contributing to that -- you made the decision, solely yourself, as to what the price would be. You are unhappy because you thought (in your heart of hearts) that you should have received more money for your car. In short, your initial expectations were not met. It is human nature to try to attribute that reality and those dashed expectations to factors seemingly beyond one's control.
Lastly, you should be damn happy that such as venue like 500Eboard.com exists, which allowed your car to get free publicity among the very people, worldwide, who care most about these cars. I can certainly tell you that 98% of the people on the other "general" forums like Benzworld and PeachParts don't care a whit about the 500E, and if you go via eBay or Craigslist, well, those venues have their own associated issues I won't get into. I don't, nor will I ever, charge people to use this forum. If you want to control the message and have a venue where people can't comment about your car, then buy an advertisement in Hemmings, or list the car on eBay, or such. But if you post on a forum, you'd better (per your First Amendment statement) be prepared to take some heat.
I have no issues with nit-picking and constructive criticism when it's based in reality. What ruffles my feathers (IN GENERGAL, not specifically with my car's sale, though I used my car's sale as an example because it did happen in that context, too, to a small extent) is when people make stuff up and assume the worst. But to be clear, what's saved you, and me, and other buyers from "costly mistakes" weren't the nit-picky made-up comments, but the careful, fact-based critical comments by knowledgeable and eagle-eyed forum members that are thankfully more common. My issue is with the former, not the latter -- and this really isn't such a radical opinion to have, right?
Nobody likes seeing their "baby" disparaged whether deserving or not. You'd have had a LOT more "knowledgable" and "fact-based" comments if you'd have posted more and better photos, and provided more information. Tons of sellers (and I'm talking dealers and private sellers, here) post fuzzy, small or just a couple of photos and then expect top dollar for their car. Life doesn't work that way. The most knowledgeable people about the 500E on the planet hang out at this site, and many of them are the most vociferous and knowledgeable commenters on cars for sale. I'd think that if a non-factual comment was made, you'd gently correct it, or follow up with additional photos or documentation that clarified the matter, rather than getting defensive.
NOBODY sits around here with the express opinion that "I'm going to comment negatively on this car for sale so i can take satisfaction in beating the shit out of the seller and knocking him down off of his asking price." However when a car is misrepresented, or a "pristine" car is scantily documented, or a car is going for a seemingly high (i.e. not generally market-correct) asking price, it certainly does raise eyebrows and invites a higher than normal level of scrutiny. Same with super pristine or rare cars like E60 AMGs, E500 Limiteds and the like, or a car like the Shatner car that has "star provenance." It better be documented or have believable details, or it's going to get picked apart.
Anyway, I hate making such a big issue about this, especially with regards to specific things like THIS forum and my OWN car. Those were just examples. My comments on Benzworld were intended to be more general observations about human psychology and there's really no need to take it so personally and be so sensitive about it. This is a great forum, you're all good people, I'm very happy Karl has my car now, and I have no desire to antagonize any of you.
It's not taken personally, but the issue has been lightly touched upon in the past and I think it's something that has needed to be more actively discussed. When my forum is accused (or inferred) of doing something wrong, and I see no wrong done, then I'm sure as heck going to debate it. I understand that feelings can get hurt when a car is "put down" and money is seemingly lost, but you have to look at a transaction on its merits, and not place blame here. Bottom line with life (putting religion aside for a moment, for those who are Christ followers) is that we are all in control of our own destiny on this earth - we have free will. We make our own reality, and this applies to buying and selling cars too.
