500E w124 e50/ w210e50

[ahmat19]

Hi all I have question about the m119 engine the 036 e50 and the w210 e50 engine how are they different or are they? can someone please explain I recently bought 1996 E50 in w210 body and was thinking on how problematic will it be to put w210 M119 engine in to w124 E500E how much work will it take especially electrical wiring. thanks in advance

 

[2phast]

The W210 motor does not use distributor caps/rotors, so transplanting it into a 92-93 model would be more complicated. An easier swap would be to a 94 E500. I don't know much more about said swap though.

 

[gerryvz]

Different generations of the M119. The M119 as used in the W124 is the 119.974 version. The M119 as used in the W210 is the 119.98X version. The 124 uses (as 2phast says) distributor caps and rotors, and the Bosch LH-Jetronic EFI system. The W210 M119 uses coil packs (no caps and rotors) and the more integrated and capable Bosch ME EFI system.

It would be very problematic (and IMHO near impossible) to retrofit an ME motor into an LH car, because of the very different computer systems and wiring involved. Just like replacing the first-generation Bosch KE-Jet M119 from the 1992 500SL into a 500E/E500. Very very difficult because of the completely different wiring and computer control systems involved.

You would have to have ALL of the wiring harnesses and computers. The W210 is considerably more integrated electronically than the W124 in terms of the instrument cluster and other electro-mechanical instrument signals, so it would be a job just to wire up a 124 instrument cluster with W210 feeds coming from an M119.98X. I don't know where the W210 puts its computers (underhood?) but retrofitting that CAN system would also be a nightmare both from a physical perspective and a wiring perspective.

Anything can be done with enough time, expertise and parts, but that is one job that would NOT make much sense, in my opinion.

 

[gsxr]

@ahmat19, this has been done before, a forum member in Europe (was it @Taxi Driver ?) did the conversion. You have to swap a lot of top-end parts from the .97x engine over to the .980 engine, to transfer the dual distributors. And either modify the .980 intake for the required temp sensors & EGR, or port/polish the .97x intake. This keeps the AMG goodies from the E50 engine (camshafts, heads, higher compression) but uses the LH-SFI injection. All plug & play, but quite a bit of work.

As Gerry said, it would be nearly impossible to retrofit the complete ME 1.0 controls into a W124. It could probably be done, but the ROI would be horrendous. I'd only consider this if also swapping in the 722.6 transmission. I don't know if it would be possible to retain ASR in the 500E, or if you could transfer the ESP components from the 210 into the 124. Huge, huge project.

BTW, what was the total cost to get the E50 delivered in the USA?

 

[ahmat19]

@ahmat19, this has been done before, a forum member in Europe (was it @Taxi Driver ?) did the conversion. You have to swap a lot of top-end parts from the .97x engine over to the .980 engine, to transfer the dual distributors. And either modify the .980 intake for the required temp sensors & EGR, or port/polish the .97x intake. This keeps the AMG goodies from the E50 engine (camshafts, heads, higher compression) but uses the LH-SFI injection. All plug & play, but quite a bit of work.

As Gerry said, it would be nearly impossible to retrofit the complete ME 1.0 controls into a W124. It could probably be done, but the ROI would be horrendous. I'd only consider this if also swapping in the 722.6 transmission. I don't know if it would be possible to retain ASR in the 500E, or if you could transfer the ESP components from the 210 into the 124. Huge, huge project.

BTW, what was the total cost to get the E50 delivered in the USA?

Hey @gsxr so I got this w210 it has a low mileage 62k kilometers I'm not going to use this as a donor this one will be for sale soon I'm looking at other one that has higher mileage will cost me about 10k-12k delivered to USA

 

[ahmat19]

@ahmat19, this has been done before, a forum member in Europe (was it @Taxi Driver ?) did the conversion. You have to swap a lot of top-end parts from the .97x engine over to the .980 engine, to transfer the dual distributors. And either modify the .980 intake for the required temp sensors & EGR, or port/polish the .97x intake. This keeps the AMG goodies from the E50 engine (camshafts, heads, higher compression) but uses the LH-SFI injection. All plug & play, but quite a bit of work.

As Gerry said, it would be nearly impossible to retrofit the complete ME 1.0 controls into a W124. It could probably be done, but the ROI would be horrendous. I'd only consider this if also swapping in the 722.6 transmission. I don't know if it would be possible to retain ASR in the 500E, or if you could transfer the ESP components from the 210 into the 124. Huge, huge project.

BTW, what was the total cost to get the E50 delivered in the USA?

One more thing @gsxr is the transmission same as as E500 will it fit if I'm going to do the swap I would like to have 5 speed transmission

 

[Markus-MD]

But it does .I have doe this swap but only for me .The Mentionen was the Bulletproof 5speed Tranny to use. Not with exeternal ECU.In my Car is not old Cabel cut or drill one add hole in the body.But when you have an early E50 up to96 he as only ASR and an Lucky switch for defeat ASR.Later ESP is the next Challange to fit in my Coupe.But is going well.
You have two Problems .DAS System/Immobilizer and Can Communication with ASR to the Rest.The EGS computer need canspeed signals to work.
That maybe all . And Can to instument cluster
for Information i have over two years to collect Info and tech doc over all.And you need min an W210 e420 for Cabel an Electronic Equipment and and E50 Engine for mech Parts and so on and on .and you fix one Prob zack next Prob is there
One big advantage no more dust in the Rotorcaps yeah but Ingnition burning trough. Really no joke but after 8 NGK Coils now is quiet.
Will say new system other Probs .But is better for diagnostic on star diagnose.

 

[ahmat19]

But it does .I have doe this swap but only for me .The Mentionen was the Bulletproof 5speed Tranny to use. Not with exeternal ECU.In my Car is not old Cabel cut or drill one add hole in the body.But when you have an early E50 up to96 he as only ASR and an Lucky switch for defeat ASR.Later ESP is the next Challange to fit in my Coupe.But is going well.
You have two Problems .DAS System/Immobilizer and Can Communication with ASR to the Rest.The EGS computer need canspeed signals to work.
That maybe all . And Can to instument cluster
for Information i have over two years to collect Info and tech doc over all.And you need min an W210 e420 for Cabel an Electronic Equipment and and E50 Engine for mech Parts and so on and on .and you fix one Prob zack next Prob is there
One big advantage no more dust in the Rotorcaps yeah but Ingnition burning trough. Really no joke but after 8 NGK Coils now is quiet.
Will say new system other Probs .But is better for diagnostic on star diagnose.

Hi @Markus-MD thanks for the info if ill get the donor car can I reach out to you for the information I already bought the w210 donor that is seating in Japan when it gets here I will have to see if it's worth to use it as a donor or fix it and sell it but thanks for the information I think this would be a great project for me and then having a 036 E50 with 5 speed sounds like a lot of fun.

 

[ahmat19]

Here some pictures

 

[gsxr]

One more thing @gsxr is the transmission same as as E500 will it fit if I'm going to do the swap I would like to have 5 speed transmission

The transmissions are completely different. E500E has the fully mechanical 722.3 while the E50 has the electronic 722.6 five-speed. Yes it will "fit", but then you have to decide if you'll use an aftermarket controller, or attempt to swap in the factory TCU, which is another electronic nightmare.

Note that what Markus described is different than what I described. Markus is talking about transferring all the W210 ECU's complete with DAS, which as I said will be an absolute nightmare. I was talking about converting the E50 engine to the old-school LH-SFI injection with EZL and dual distributors etc etc.

 

[Markus-MD]

you Cant slaugter This car for this. The e 50 is most understand per amg Mercedes that Made .