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W463 G36 m104 - Slows down on hills?
- Thread starter amgfan
- Start date
Try owning a "pedestrian" M104 model with 217 HP !!
Your best bet is to get a V-8 model. The six cylinder M104s (even the AMG models) paired with the four-speed transmission unfortunately don't have much "low end" torque, so you either have to press the gas pedal to down-shift, or manually down-shift the lever. The transmission's gear shift points are not well matched to the M104, particularly for such a heavy 5,000+ pound G-wagen. The earlier 177HP M103 engine with the manual transmission allows the driver to make much better use of the engine's low-end torque (which is higher than the M104 at low revs anyway).
The M104 was really built as a "revving" engine, so you don't start coming on cam and getting the horsepower out of it until 2,500 RPM and higher. There just isn't a lot of grunt at low revs with these engines, even the AMG variants. With the AMG, the extra 60+ HP is more toward the middle and top end of the rev range.
There were turbo kits that were marketed for the M104 engine years ago, but I do not know if they are still available and/or perhaps can be purchased used. These turbo kits were much more frequently seen and used in Europe - they are rare here where I am in the US.
The V-8 engine really transforms the G-wagen, though.
The inline-six M103/M104 G-wagens were really the last of the line of the "old school" G-wagens, where they were designed and made more for their off-road use and not designed to be fast vehicles. Once MB figured out in the mid-90s that G-wagens were more of a status symbol and not so much used for off-road use, they installed first the M112 V-6 (which has nearly identical specs to the M104 inline-six) and the M113 V-8, then supercharged G55, and so on after that. But the M112/M113 engined G-wagens used the 722.6 transmission, which had more gears and was better matched gearing range-wise to the engine (not to mention smoother).
In the US, MB only officially began importing G-wagens with the M113 for the 2002 model year, so for the US market only V-8 and (torquey) diesel engines have ever been available from the factory. All earlier G-wagens than 2002 in the US were "gray market" vehicles that were imported from Europe or Japan.
Interesting, the majority of M104 G36 models (as well as "pedestrian" G320 models) were sent to Japan for that market. Consequently, we are seeing in recent years many G320s and G36s imported from Japan into the US.
Your best bet is to get a V-8 model. The six cylinder M104s (even the AMG models) paired with the four-speed transmission unfortunately don't have much "low end" torque, so you either have to press the gas pedal to down-shift, or manually down-shift the lever. The transmission's gear shift points are not well matched to the M104, particularly for such a heavy 5,000+ pound G-wagen. The earlier 177HP M103 engine with the manual transmission allows the driver to make much better use of the engine's low-end torque (which is higher than the M104 at low revs anyway).
The M104 was really built as a "revving" engine, so you don't start coming on cam and getting the horsepower out of it until 2,500 RPM and higher. There just isn't a lot of grunt at low revs with these engines, even the AMG variants. With the AMG, the extra 60+ HP is more toward the middle and top end of the rev range.
There were turbo kits that were marketed for the M104 engine years ago, but I do not know if they are still available and/or perhaps can be purchased used. These turbo kits were much more frequently seen and used in Europe - they are rare here where I am in the US.
The V-8 engine really transforms the G-wagen, though.
The inline-six M103/M104 G-wagens were really the last of the line of the "old school" G-wagens, where they were designed and made more for their off-road use and not designed to be fast vehicles. Once MB figured out in the mid-90s that G-wagens were more of a status symbol and not so much used for off-road use, they installed first the M112 V-6 (which has nearly identical specs to the M104 inline-six) and the M113 V-8, then supercharged G55, and so on after that. But the M112/M113 engined G-wagens used the 722.6 transmission, which had more gears and was better matched gearing range-wise to the engine (not to mention smoother).
In the US, MB only officially began importing G-wagens with the M113 for the 2002 model year, so for the US market only V-8 and (torquey) diesel engines have ever been available from the factory. All earlier G-wagens than 2002 in the US were "gray market" vehicles that were imported from Europe or Japan.
Interesting, the majority of M104 G36 models (as well as "pedestrian" G320 models) were sent to Japan for that market. Consequently, we are seeing in recent years many G320s and G36s imported from Japan into the US.
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I've noticed this about the M104, not sure how the torque curve looks like on this engine.
The 36 M104 is a strong and robust engine, and the intake system provides an unexpected but pleasant engine characteristic. The engine comes alive above 3000 RPM. I think Porsche Carrera and M3 drivers would find this engine rewarding, not sure its ideal for a G-class.
The 36 M104 is a strong and robust engine, and the intake system provides an unexpected but pleasant engine characteristic. The engine comes alive above 3000 RPM. I think Porsche Carrera and M3 drivers would find this engine rewarding, not sure its ideal for a G-class.
It's probably question of torque, not HP. What RPM is the truck cruising at up the hill, when it needs a downshift to 3rd gear? Remember that power ratings are the peak, and at high RPM... the engine may not produce enough midrange torque to maintain speed up the hill at low RPM.
Forced induction or V8 conversion will likely be the only ways to get a substantial increase in low-end torque.
The M273 V8 (382hp/391tq) coupled to the 7 speed obviously had no issues with the rolling hilly terrain in my area. But a more relevant data point comes from my 100 Series Land Cruisers:
We had an '02, 5200lbs, with a 230hp/320tq and a 4 speed auto. That pig would struggle going up one of our larger hills at highway speed. The downshift to 3rd just wasn't quite enough, and 2nd wouldn't allow enough revs. Now we have an '04 Land Cruiser, same weight, a tiny power bump 235hp/320tq but with a 5 speed. Night and day difference. 5th to 3rd and she motors right up without much drama. Gearing FTW.
We had an '02, 5200lbs, with a 230hp/320tq and a 4 speed auto. That pig would struggle going up one of our larger hills at highway speed. The downshift to 3rd just wasn't quite enough, and 2nd wouldn't allow enough revs. Now we have an '04 Land Cruiser, same weight, a tiny power bump 235hp/320tq but with a 5 speed. Night and day difference. 5th to 3rd and she motors right up without much drama. Gearing FTW.
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