What happens when you don't change your oil regularly

[gerryvz]

I was visiting a local mechanic friend over the weekend, and they were working on this 2007 BMW 3-Series that had recently come into their shop.

I was casually glancing at the motor when the tech was working on it, and then I realized what was happening.




Some of it was a full 1/4" thick.

Jono ought to know this well.....

 

[texas993]

That is nasty. Did you catch how many miles were on it?

Sad part is, someone probably bought it recently and discovered it after purchase. What a mess.

 

[036]

Bring Mich Werkstatt....

I knew one Honda Civic which done 98.000 kilometers without oil change....no other car can do that....

 

[gsxr]

I was visiting a local mechanic friend over the weekend, and they were working on this 2007 BMW 3-Series that had recently come into their shop.

Any idea what brand/type of oil had been used in the Z3?

I knew one Honda Civic which done 98.000 kilometers without oil change....no other car can do that....

It's not the car, it's the oil. Cheap dino stuff would have failed well before 98kkm. Good synthetic could survive that long. Either way, I bet multiple quarts of oil were added along the way. No engine goes nearly 100kkm while consuming zero oil.

 

[gerryvz]

I think the car is a 325 or 328i sedan, not a sports model.

The car had around 80,000 miles on it. The mechanic said the customer had used dino oil.

The car had a Washington license plate with June 2014 sticker expiration date; they are a recent (late summer) transplant to the Houston area from Washington State. Evidently the customer had owned the car for some time.

The mechanic said that to be properly cleaned, the head would have to come off the car. Trying to clean the engine with various chemicals, he said, could further jeopardize the engine simply because the crud loosened could get caught and carried elsewhere in the engine, clogging passages or clogging the oil pump pickup down in the oil pan. Head removal and a chemical dip he said was the only realistic solution to get this cylinder head clean. It did not seem that the customer wanted to do this.

 

[gsxr]

The mechanic said that to be properly cleaned, the head would have to come off the car. .... It did not seem that the customer wanted to do this.

Nice. It's amazing how foolish people can be. The only other option would be multiple Auto-RX treatments but that would require many oil changes at 1500 mile intervals, which this owner seems allergic to. Bet they tell him to button up the motor and they keep driving it until it dies, then trade it in to some unsuspecting dealer, and the cycle continues.

 

[Roma_500E]

I think it is not problem with oil and car . My friend bought 2012 BMW 328ix for his wife which is under warranty and free service. So he took it for oil change and guess what dealer said. They said that BMW recommends to change engine oil every 18 000 MILES !! Which sounds ridiculous .

Moreover at 18 000 miles he found little kick at the signals , very little . Took it to dealer they said it is special software for fuel efficiency bla bla bla. He asked them to replace transfer case fluid and they said BMW said it is lifetime no need change. He replaced transfer case fluid himself which was BLACK !!! So this slight kick disappeared . He came back to dealer to tell them that and what they did , they took transfercase out off warranty , loool.

So .... whatever car is on a pic I guess it the consequence of BMW recommendations .

 

[Bondavi]

Reminds me of the story about the E46 with 60K that went without an oil change (ie quarts added over time):

 

[gsxr]

My friend bought 2012 BMW 328ix for his wife which is under warranty and free service. So he took it for oil change and guess what dealer said. They said that BMW recommends to change engine oil every 18 000 MILES !! Which sounds ridiculous .

MB has similar policies on the newer cars with FSS. 18kmi is ok for light service but ONLY with the correct (i.e., certain synthetic) oils. If you use dino and try to go 18k, well, sludge happens.

MB's FSS will trigger a light to request an "early" oil change if the computer decides the engine has encountered "severe service", i.e. lots of cold starts, stop & go traffic, etc. Dunno what BMW does.

 

[szvook]

Some people should not own cars - now could anyone do that to their car?

Dealers are douchebags, period.

If I do not change my oil every 5-6K, I get antsy and I know I can extend the oil change intervals with using good synthetics, but I still prefer to change my oil before I reach 7K, and I don't mind that my oil is not cheap to begin with - my car deserves the best care I can afford.

 

[Roma_500E]

MB has similar policies on the newer cars with FSS. 18kmi is ok for light service but ONLY with the correct (i.e., certain synthetic) oils. If you use dino and try to go 18k, well, sludge happens.

MB's FSS will trigger a light to request an "early" oil change if the computer decides the engine has encountered "severe service", i.e. lots of cold starts, stop & go traffic, etc. Dunno what BMW does.

Honestly I do not care about what MB/BMW?Lexus say , there are engineering laws and formulas so I follow them. I change oil every 2000 on those cars that are driven hard , for DDs gently driven - every 5000K , no matter if it is 1992 car or 2013 . Plus I use Mobil 1, Motul and RedLine products that are one of the best ones .

I remember MB said lifetime fluid in tranny 722.5 . So when I took CL500 C140 5 years ago at 89 000 miles for tranny fluid change it was darker even than used engine oil instead of pinkish color.

I learnt that lesson that those freaks lie. Recently had to fight with "super expert" manager at MB in Indiana when I requested to replace transfer case fluid in W221 S550 4 matic , a guy gave me the same crap "MB does NOT recommend to replace fluid in differential and transfer case for the whole life of a car", the same is for AMG cars !!! that are abused a lot !!! .

Have those guys ever gone to school or ever had a bicycle that needs lubrication ?

 

[szvook]

Recently had to fight with "super expert" manager at MB

Stop going to the dealerships, it's a waste of your time and patience.

 

[Glen]

It's really hard to believe than anyone can neglect an engine for so long.

 

[gsxr]

Honestly I do not care about what MB/BMW?Lexus say , there are engineering laws and formulas so I follow them. I change oil every 2000 on those cars that are driven hard , for DDs gently driven - every 5000K , no matter if it is 1992 car or 2013 . Plus I use Mobil 1, Motul and RedLine products that are one of the best ones .

Changing Red Line at 2kmi (for anything other than serious racetrack use) is dumping money down the drain. If I lived near you, I'd take your 2kmi drained oil and use it in something! Even 5k for normal service is a waste of $$$. Oil should be changed when it's worn out, typically when the additive package is depleted (TBN number below approx 2.0), assuming wear metals are ok and viscosity is in spec. Only way to tell is to get an oil analysis and find out. Note that almost all Mobil-1 products are no longer a true synthetic like Red Line, and only certain Motul products are true synthetics. The fake/cheap stuff needs to be changed more often and generally treated like dino oil. Be careful out there.

I remember MB said lifetime fluid in tranny 722.5 . So when I took CL500 C140 5 years ago at 89 000 miles for tranny fluid change it was darker even than used engine oil instead of pinkish color.

Yeah, MB really screwed up on that one. I'm assuming you mean 722.6 (not 722.5), as the 722.6 was the first trans with the lifetime fill claim. IIRC, MB later quietly stopped claiming it was a lifetime fill. You also don't need to use the expensive OE dealer fluid, there are a number of aftermarket fluids which work fine, including Red Line D4.

I learnt that lesson that those freaks lie. Recently had to fight with "super expert" manager at MB in Indiana when I requested to replace transfer case fluid in W221 S550 4 matic , a guy gave me the same crap "MB does NOT recommend to replace fluid in differential and transfer case for the whole life of a car", the same is for AMG cars !!! that are abused a lot !!! .

Yeah, these guys are just disseminating the corporate crap fed to them. Good synthetic fluids can last a very long time, but under severe service, or over a very long period of time (100kmi? 200kmi? More?), the fluid will need to be changed eventually.

 

[036]

No engine goes nearly 100kkm while consuming zero oil.

I see you never owned japanese Honda... I had 2 cars, many years, and you know how i drive... and i don´t live in a country with speed limits...Never ever i had to put ANY DROP of oil between services, 12 to 15000 km. No other car can do that.
Germans ALWAYS use too much oil, even on a brand new M3 is an ugly sign right on dashboard- ALWAYS CHECK ENGINE OIL!!! Funny this.....

PS Cheap oil is not automatically bad... I have a special prizes, and best oil i´m buying for not more than 3 Euro a liter... never had any problems...

PS2 Germans are using so much oil, so it actually makes nearly no sense to change it

 

[gsxr]

12-15kkm is very different than 90-100kkm.

I've had at least one MB engine that went about 20kkm (by accident) between oil changes, and the level was still above the MIN mark, zero oil had been added during that time... this was with Amsoil 15W-40, a known-good Group IV/V synthetic. Dino oil would have been turning to sludge by that time, same as it would in a Honda.

 

[samiam44]

I'd pull the head too! Maybe the pan and replace the timing chain and tensioner. Yuck.

Beyond the scope of cleaners.

 

[036]

Ha, after 20 tkm it was on MIN, Honda would have same anount as filled up before...no mercedes or BMW could drive 100.000 km on same oil, honda can.
What i´m trying to say- story with this broken BMW is just bmw, not an oil or forgotten change...

PS I drove my Legend 890km once... without any cooling fluid... Radiator was broken due to bad HiFi instllation.... Put some cold (!!) whater in it, drove back 890 km...fast. Used this car another 200.000 km without any damages...
No MB or BMW can do that.....

PS2 Once i forgot to change spark plugs, so i drove 200.000 on same plugs.. no difference... MB can´t do that...

 

[gsxr]

...no mercedes or BMW could drive 100.000 km on same oil, honda can.

Bullcrap.

PS I drove my Legend 890km once... without any cooling fluid... Radiator was broken due to bad HiFi instllation.... No MB or BMW can do that.....

You should sell your 500E and only drive nice, reliable Japanese cars. NO, really.

 

[036]

Bullcrap.

Wanna bet?

You should sell your 500E and only drive nice, reliable Japanese cars. NO, really.

I got my 036 for fun. Small Lexus does the rest. Perfect combination of passion and reliability.

 

[DerFuror]

You can´t treat a car like a human.
You must love it. (c) Walter Röhrl.



Where is the Love??
​

 

[gsxr]

Wanna bet?

Yep. No normal street engine will go 100kkm (62kmi) on the same oil without consuming any. Next thing you'll be saying Honda will do that on plain cheap dino oil. Puh-leeeeze.

:lol:

 

[gerryvz]

 

[gsxr]

 

[Maui]

Man, those look terrible!

I'm pretty fanatical about oil changes. My toys see new oil about every three months whether I drive them or not.

 

[500AMM]

.
No oil changes at all on no matter age and type of the car?!? I don't see the point, except for saving money if the car is old crap and ready for the breakers. Those pics are really shocking.

As for the RED Line - it is a tuning shop nearby me selling those products. Both my cars shall have tranny oil change now and the SuperMerc engine and diff oil too, so what do you recommend?
http://www.protrim.no/produkter_redlineoil_index.shtml

....just a bit, related though..

 

[zman]

Wanna bet?



I got my 036 for fun. Small Lexus does the rest. Perfect combination of passion and reliability.

I will agree to a point with this one. I have a 2000 Honda crv for winter and all the utilitarian ventures with almost 400,000 kms on it. Runs like a champ, no leaks, blah, blah, blah. However, it does consume 1 litre of oil every 5000kms, and I do very frequent oil changes. So I don't buy the rest of that story.

On the other hand, no other car provides such enjoyment and driver feedback like the 036. I am a 036er' for life and then my kids.

As for that bimmer, no surprise to see that. That particular generation of cars from 2003 were notorious for issues with crankcase ventilation system in which the end result was those pics( combined of course with the lack of maintenance and neglegt.

 

[gsxr]

As for the RED Line - it is a tuning shop nearby me selling those products. Both my cars shall have tranny oil change now and the SuperMerc engine and diff oil too, so what do you recommend?
http://www.protrim.no/produkter_redlineoil_index.shtml

I am using Red Line in almost all my vehicles now. 10W-40 for the engine, High Temp ATF for the transmission (D4 is also ok). I use either Red Line 75W-90 gear oil, or Amsoil SVG, for stock (open) and Quaife differentials. For factory clutch-type LSD, I still use the OE MB fluid ($$!). Red Line is top-notch, still a Group IV/V (PAO / ester) base stock. The 10W-40 engine oil has lots of ZDDP and also a bunch of moly. VOA is here. I should have my first oil analysis with severe service (2 full racing seasons) in a few months.

Note that Red Line diesel products (5W-40 and 15W-40) no longer have moly, which is a shame. It was removed to meet emissions requirements for newer diesel engines.

 

[Roma_500E]

Changing Red Line at 2kmi (for anything other than serious racetrack use) is dumping money down the drain. If I lived near you, I'd take your 2kmi drained oil and use it in something! Even 5k for normal service is a waste of $$$. Oil should be changed when it's worn out, typically when the additive package is depleted (TBN number below approx 2.0), assuming wear metals are ok and viscosity is in spec. Only way to tell is to get an oil analysis and find out. Note that almost all Mobil-1 products are no longer a true synthetic like Red Line, and only certain Motul products are true synthetics. The fake/cheap stuff needs to be changed more often and generally treated like dino oil. Be careful out there.

For the engine oil here in the US I run Mobil 1 , which is supposedly synthetic (at least it says on a bottle). Overseas I used to go with Motul and Mobil products. I do not know where to get Motul here in the US so stick with Mobil 1 engine/gear and Redline for tranny.

Do you think it is good idea to switch to Motul for engine oil (I do not race it or anything like that, it just makes me happier to get high-end/best products for my car ) ?

Based on fact that I drive it 4 months a year only and very few miles, wasting money does not really bother me even if it is expensive products like Motul.

Do you know any good place where I can get Motul ? (genuine one)

Yeah, MB really screwed up on that one. I'm assuming you mean 722.6 (not 722.5), as the 722.6 was the first trans with the lifetime fill claim. IIRC, MB later quietly stopped claiming it was a lifetime fill. You also don't need to use the expensive OE dealer fluid, there are a number of aftermarket fluids which work fine, including Red Line D4.

I believe so , that was 1998 CL500 so I think it is 722.6. Back that time I do not know this wonderful board of people so I went with MB stuff.

Yeah, these guys are just disseminating the corporate crap fed to them. Good synthetic fluids can last a very long time, but under severe service, or over a very long period of time (100kmi? 200kmi? More?), the fluid will need to be changed eventually.

I just cannot believe how come one will not change fluid in differentials in AMG product if he/she races it like crazy ? Most of the AMG cars are really abused so tranny/diff fluid MUST be replaced once in year or two. IMHO. Even regular MBZs , especially 4-matic cars do require change of transfer case fluid.

Well nothing to be surprised of , dealership is a business organization which has a main goal of profit maximization. So they achieve it by doing anything they can.

 

[Roma_500E]

Stop going to the dealerships, it's a waste of your time and patience.

The S550 is godfathers DD so he does not have time to go to nice mechanics. However, I had a fun arguing with the jerks at dealerships.
As for me I take my 500E to dealer just for fun to hang out with folks over there and grab free cookies and coffee
otherwise only to get some serious job or alignment.

 

[szvook]

Roma, I chime in regarding Motul, before Dave jumps in.

Swithing to a better oil can only be a good thing and Motul is one of the better oils made, period. Not all oils from Motul are for racing and even their racing oils are made to be used for DD without any problems. Their racing oil (300v series, which I use) has a purpose for a DD, the ability to handle high heat without much consumption and shearing and in SoCal I need that extra protection. You can also get a non racing oil, the 8100 series would be a good choice and it has a MB-Approval 229.51, if it helps. Since you are ok with paying a bit more for good oil, then do so and get better protection than most oils out there. Mobil 1 is no longer 100% synthetic (at least it's not for what we can get in the U.S.) and I walked away from Mobile when I heard that.

Motul is not sold in auto stores in this country, so you can buy it online or google for Motul in retail stores in your area - that's how I found a few shops in Los Angeles that can get Motul at will, as a back up. Otherwise, my tuner has all of the Motul products so I just buy from him and at a great price.

You can also try motorcycle stores, but they might not carry large quantities, or not carry the grade you want and they change top dollar for Motul products.

All but the transmission in my car uses Motul and I'm very happy with Motul so far and have no need to switch to anything else. I have yet to boil my brake fuild at the track and I'm not even runnig racing brake fuild and the last track events all have been in very hot weather.

 

[Hollybrook]

Note that Red Line diesel products (5W-40 and 15W-40) no longer have moly, which is a shame. It was removed to meet emissions requirements for newer diesel engines.

Do you use a moly additive with Red Line?

 

[gsxr]

Do you use a moly additive with Red Line?

No. The 10W-40 already has moly as part of the additive package engineered by Red Line. That's partly why I prefer the 10W-40 instead of the 5W-40 or 15W-40, I like the moly additive (along with the high ZDDP amounts).

In general, I do not like ANY engine oil additives... if you select an oil with the additives you need in the first place, there's no need to put in extra stuff.

 

[szvook]

Hey Dave, I read somewhere that Red Line oils are generally thicker than what they advertise, like the w5-40 is more like w5-50. Any truth to that?

 

[gsxr]

A note about Motul... similar to Amsoil, only some of their products are a true Group IV/V synthetic. Do your homework and make sure you're selecting the right stuff for your needs. IIRC, the Motul 300V that Vookster is using is the good stuff... and you'll pay a premium for it (approx $15/qt). A quick look around the interwebs shows the 300V has good levels of ZDDP and also moly.

Here's a snippet about moly from post 40 on the really long oil thread here:

As far as how moly works, I don't know where my post was but here's a quick rundown.

Moly bonds with any metallic surface it's exposed to especially where there's some heat and pressure involved. It fills in surface asperities (roughness) and creates a very, very smooth surface reducing friction. It also acts somewhat similar to graphite in the sense that the molecules shingle. One way folks have described the way moly works is like sliding something over a bunch of playing cards. The cards slide over each other creating low friction.

Moly however bonds pretty strongly to the metal. In fact some folks testing it have said that after moly bonds to the metal surface, the only real way to get it off is to grind it off. I had my bearings dry-film moly coated, but the coaters didn't take precautions to avoid coating the bearing ends (at least they made sure not to coat the bearings backs). I had to scrape the moly coating off the bearings ends to avoid affecting the bearing crush specs and after scraping the coating off (only some of the bearings had the overspray), the ends were left a dull gray and there was no way to change that (since I sure as heck wasn't going to grind the bearing ends).

Moly's bond and friction modifier characteristics can withstand pressures up to 500,000 psi. Althugh this sounds like the Prolong/Zmax etc. BS, the company conducted some tests on the effectiveness of moly (to see if they wanted to use it on their equipment) had a small 3HP engine coated with moly. It ran with no lubrication at all, and when they tore the engine apart, it showed practically no wear.

One of the newer EP/FM/AW additives is Boron. You'll see it in some oils. It works in a similar fashion to Moly and once it bonds to the surface, it supposedly lasts for a good long time. Not sure if it will withstand the pressures moly is good for.​

 

[gsxr]

Hey Dave, I read somewhere that Red Line oils are generally thicker than what they advertise, like the w5-40 is more like w5-50. Any truth to that?

Good question. A given viscosity falls within a certain range. Red Line may lean towards the thicker side of the range for a given spec. I vaguely recall this being mentioned before but I can't remember specifics. Regardless, I'm ok with their 10W-40 even if it leans towards one side of the range or t'other.

 

[500AMM]

A note about Motul... similar to Amsoil, only some of their products are a true Group IV/V synthetic. Do your homework and make sure you're selecting the right stuff for your needs. IIRC, the Motul 300V that Vookster is using is the good stuff... and you'll pay a premium for it (approx $15/qt). A quick look around the interwebs shows the 300V has good levels of ZDDP and also moly.

Here's a snippet about moly from post 40 on the really long oil thread here:

As far as how moly works, I don't know where my post was but here's a quick rundown.

Moly bonds with any metallic surface it's exposed to especially where there's some heat and pressure involved. It fills in surface asperities (roughness) and creates a very, very smooth surface reducing friction. It also acts somewhat similar to graphite in the sense that the molecules shingle. One way folks have described the way moly works is like sliding something over a bunch of playing cards. The cards slide over each other creating low friction.

Moly however bonds pretty strongly to the metal. In fact some folks testing it have said that after moly bonds to the metal surface, the only real way to get it off is to grind it off...........................posedly lasts for a good long time. Not sure if it will withstand the pressures moly is good for.

​

​

Interesting reading, but well known in the metallurgy, also occures with other alloys. Both Molybdenum and Graphite penetrates into the metal structure along the metal grain boundaries, hence it is locked up below the material surface and won't go off. It requires special application techniques to achieve a lubrication effect. Additionally, and as described in that post, those alloy elements fill in all "potholes" in a regular steel surface - seen in a microscope, and makes it smoother. Especially for Moly and Graphite is their stability in high heat and pressure.

(I have to read the thread on that forum..)

-a-