Who still makes an exhaust and does ecu tunes on these?

[Benzmannyc]

I asked renntech a few weeks back and no luck.

i saw magnaflow has a cat midpipe system anyone try it?

as for tunes do these boxes need to get sent to germany? Im looking at buying a 500e and def want ti play a bit

 

[gsxr]

Remus and Eisenmann may still offer a 500E-specific muffler. RENNtech does not. No aftermarket muffler will provide a power gain. Same for adding a Y-pipe in place of the middle muffler, that will shed ~15 lbs and sound nice, but it doesn't make any power. Ditto for the cats. The stock exhaust is oversized for the 5.0L engine. Aftermarket 500E mufflers are for looks and sound, not power.

There is basically nothing you can do for a 'tune' on these older engine management systems. If you buy a 1992 model, there really is nothing available, period. If you buy a 1993-94 model, you can install a 1992 LH (engine computer) module and this will give you approx 10hp gain at full throttle. That's it.

There is very, very little you can do to get more power from the 500E/E500 without installing NOS, forced induction, or a 6.0L engine. You can however make chassis modifications such as larger brakes (Silver Arrow setup), larger front sway bar (RENNtech, $600), wider wheels/tires, etc.

 

[Benzmannyc]

What version engine ecu do these cars have? Im looking at 93-94 models

i always wanted one of these cars. My daily driver is a new c63 and i have a lingenfelter ctsv

its been 20 years since i drove a 500e, no idea how i will feel about the power and dynamics compared to my other cars

 

[NIGHT RAIDER]

i dont know why i dont feel the power in this car,but when i make arace i surprised that i won with new cars,last one was 5.0 mustang 2013 420 hp,)) we start from 30 speed till 160 the i won with around finder in front,and the mustang driver was playing with gear,im only in d with kick down.

 

[gsxr]

What version engine ecu do these cars have? Im looking at 93-94 models

All the 500E's have Bosch LH fuel injection with separate EZL ignition computers. If you get a 93-94, and it doesn't already have a '92 LH module as an upgrade, you can buy one to install... it's simple plug & play.

i always wanted one of these cars. My daily driver is a new c63 and i have a lingenfelter ctsv

its been 20 years since i drove a 500e, no idea how i will feel about the power and dynamics compared to my other cars

I would be very curious to hear what you think of the 500E compared to the C63 or Lingenfelter CTS-V. I can promise you the 500E will be quite a bit slower. You'd need to get a 6.0L motor, or NOS, to get anywhere near the straight-line performance of those two. Remember a stock 500E does the 1/4 mile in about 14.1 sec @ 99mph at sea level (give or take a bit). With NOS on the stock 5.0 you can bump that into high 12's at around 110mph. A strong 6.0L should do about the same. I'm guessing your C63 and CTS-V are easily low 12's if not quicker... I found some specs indicating the C63 does a 12.1 time in stock form, which is amazing. The 500E may ride a lot nicer though.

 

[gsxr]

i dont know why i dont feel the power in this car,but when i make arace i surprised that i won with new cars,last one was 5.0 mustang 2013 420 hp,)) we start from 30 speed till 160 the i won with around finder in front,and the mustang driver was playing with gear,im only in d with kick down.

If you race against a car with a manual transmission, and the driver doesn't know how to get the maximum out of it (i.e., being in the right gear, shifting at the right time, etc) you can often win a race with a "slower" car. With a better driver in the other car, the result could be quite different...

 

[Jelmer]

Now, now, don't take away his winnings

The cool thing with our cars is that losing isn't bad. We have comfortable highway cruisers that still pack a punch, despite being 20 years old. So what if your brand new, purpose-built, organ shaker is faster?

 

[gsxr]

Now, now, don't take away his winnings

The cool thing with our cars is that losing isn't bad. We have comfortable highway cruisers that still pack a punch, despite being 20 years old. So what if your brand new, purpose-built, organ shaker is faster?

+1 on both counts!!

 

[Benzmannyc]

Guys im not looking to buy a 500 for speed as i have plenty of fast cars. I also have quite a few vintage cars so they all drive horrible but i still love them. Buying a 500e is more of a personal thing as i wanted this car when i was in my teens believe it or not. Im a car enthusiast to no end. The 500e is so special and marks an era of properly built german cars unlike the junk we get today with rattles in the doors, plastic everywhere, leather that is water based dyed that cracks and fades in. 2 years i can go on. New cars are so disposable but back in the 80's and 90's these cars were built to last. My dad owns a new s550 and he told me last night his favorite benz was his 88 560sel it was a tank. My c63 is a cool car but to be honest I leased it because its already falling apart and squeaks and rattles like. Gmc truck, best part of my c63 is the engine and front seats. My ctsv kills the benz m every department and feels much better built, point made from experience.

 

[Jelmer]

Guys im not looking to buy a 500 for speed as i have plenty of fast cars. I also have quite a few vintage cars so they all drive horrible but i still love them. Buying a 500e is more of a personal thing as i wanted this car when i was in my teens believe it or not. Im a car enthusiast to no end. The 500e is so special and marks an era of properly built german cars unlike the junk we get today with rattles in the doors, plastic everywhere, leather that is water based dyed that cracks and fades in. 2 years i can go on. New cars are so disposable but back in the 80's and 90's these cars were built to last. My dad owns a new s550 and he told me last night his favorite benz was his 88 560sel it was a tank. My c63 is a cool car but to be honest I leased it because its already falling apart and squeaks and rattles like. Gmc truck, best part of my c63 is the engine and front seats. My ctsv kills the benz m every department and feels much better built, point made from experience.

Heh, how's THAT for a "why should I get a .036"-talk?

If you could add some more info to your profile (i.e., country), we might be able to suggest more...

 

[126v8]

Cars with more torque than horsepower like the 500E etc are supposed to make "big" horses.Also the old (dare I say ) proper Benzes are have good midrange power(torque?) esp the v8s.

 

[Benzmannyc]

Heh, how's THAT for a "why should I get a .036"-talk?

If you could add some more info to your profile (i.e., country), we might be able to suggest more...

i am from the USA, NYC area. The city that destroys every car within months however these old Benzes never got disrupted on the roads back in the day like new cars do today. My favorite benz of all time was my 98brabus e420, my 99e55 shortly after i switched away from mercedes to jaguar r's and bmw m's all of which become complex junk today. I love simplicity of performance cars who will ever want to own any of todays super sedans in 20 years, you would have screws loose can you imagine the repairs and computer failures. Not a chance. This is the main reason i bought a ctsv its simple, it does everything awesome and you turn the key and go no bs. The ctsv is what cars used to be but technology and our lazy society have made them complex cars with no feedback and constant shop visits

to me the most important dynamic of any car is steering feedback and high speed stability all of which is haRd to find today. The new amg models wander all over the roads and their feedback simply sucks if you ask me its like steering an overpowered sponge

 

[126v8]

"*The new amg models wander all over the roads and their feedback simply sucks if you ask me its like steering an overpowered sponge"

Really? I thought the nrw AMGs had better steering cos the old benzez were always criticized for having poor steering feel so could never win comparative tests with BMWs.However the old Benzes had rock solid high speed stability usually you have to look at your speedo to before you realise how fast you werer going

 

[Benzmannyc]

"*The new amg models wander all over the roads and their feedback simply sucks if you ask me its like steering an overpowered sponge"

Really? I thought the nrw AMGs had better steering cos the old benzez were always criticized for having poor steering feel so could never win comparative tests with BMWs.However the old Benzes had rock solid high speed stability usually you have to look at your speedo to before you realise how fast you werer going

this is my opinion based n all the carsni have owned. My wife has. 2011 Sl 550 sport, beautiful car but we both hate the car, so bumpy, terrible seats and it just rides horrible like an old jeep wrangler around ny. The roof rattles so bad and worse than my 45 year old american classic cars We bend rims and get tire bubbles like crazy. We have been trying to get rid of it for a year but its a huge loss. ,my c63 is super quick but i do not feel confident pushing it i the turns as i do with my ctsv the steering is vague and springs back through turn inputs. My c63 lease ends this June which i can not wait. we might take a huge loss on the Sl because my wife and i never drive it.

 

[Zuffenhausen]

RENNtech still makes the sway bar?

Remus and Eisenmann may still offer a 500E-specific muffler. RENNtech does not. No aftermarket muffler will provide a power gain. Same for adding a Y-pipe in place of the middle muffler, that will shed ~15 lbs and sound nice, but it doesn't make any power. Ditto for the cats. The stock exhaust is oversized for the 5.0L engine. Aftermarket 500E mufflers are for looks and sound, not power.

There is basically nothing you can do for a 'tune' on these older engine management systems. If you buy a 1992 model, there really is nothing available, period. If you buy a 1993-94 model, you can install a 1992 LH (engine computer) module and this will give you approx 10hp gain at full throttle. That's it.

There is very, very little you can do to get more power from the 500E/E500 without installing NOS, forced induction, or a 6.0L engine. You can however make chassis modifications such as larger brakes (Silver Arrow setup), larger front sway bar (RENNtech, $600), wider wheels/tires, etc.

 

[gsxr]

RENNtech still makes the sway bar?

I believe so, yes... at least someone bought a new one from them a couple years ago. It's 32mm, btw, and $600 plus S&H.

 

[samiam44]

" It's 32mm, btw, and $600 plus S&H."


is the 32 mm constant between the middle 2 bushings? I thought Uncle Gerry was going to make a special run of bars sometime. WOW- $600- I didn't think you could get anything out of Renntech that cheap.


Michael

 

[szvook]

The stock exhaust is oversized for the 5.0L engine.

Are you referring to the pipes diameter?

 

[gerryvz]

I thought Uncle Gerry was going to make a special run of bars sometime.

This is still in my plans. I just have had other priorities these days (including president of Houston section MBCA) so have had to "back burner" some of these projects....

 

[bgalakazam]

Now, now, don't take away his winnings

The cool thing with our cars is that losing isn't bad. We have comfortable highway cruisers that still pack a punch, despite being 20 years old. So what if your brand new, purpose-built, organ shaker is faster?

1+++++++++++++++++++
well said

 

[gsxr]

is the [RENNtech sway bar] 32 mm constant between the middle 2 bushings? I thought Uncle Gerry was going to make a special run of bars sometime. WOW- $600- I didn't think you could get anything out of Renntech that cheap.

Yes, 32mm all the way to the ends where it drops to 22mm at the LCA connection. Detailed photos are on my website. Having custom bars made is easier said than done which I think it partly why it hasn't happened yet, along with the likely minimum order of 10-25 to make it worth it, $$$$. RENNtech even includes new OE bushings for the $600, just hope they don't fall out of the box during shipment like when Dean bought his...!

 

[gsxr]

Are you referring to the pipes diameter?

Not specifically, no. But the fact remains that the 5.0L engine simply does not respond with power increases when any mods are done to the exhaust.

Also, the W124 AMG 6.0L cars all use the exact same exhaust system. If AMG didn't think the stock exhaust was restricting 380-400hp, it certainly isn't restricting 315-330hp.

 

[195910]

If AMG didn't think the stock exhaust was restricting 380-400hp, it certainly isn't restricting 315-330hp.

Same with Brabus, they used sport catalytic converters and end exhaust muffler...rest is stock 036.

Dave, the 036 OE non-cat pipes have a small muffler..is it a crossover ?

Who has installed these pipes?

 

[gsxr]

Dave, the 036 OE non-cat pipes have a small muffler..is it a crossover? Who has installed these pipes?

It appears to be a crossover but straight-through design, similar to the resonator. No restriction to flow. I installed this on my car and did back to back testing vs the stock catalyst pipe. I found zero power gain at both the dyno and dragstrip. Nothing, zilch, nada. I still believe that anyone who gets a power gain from removing or replacing their catalysts, likely had partly plugged catalysts. Just my $0.02...

 

[195910]

So is it an H-pipe muffler ?
A mistake that is made when emptying out the cats or removing them, is that the change in pipe dimensions causing turbulence in the exhaust stream which causes power lose.
an empty chamber causes sound waves to bounce back, will also cause flow issues..

 

[gsxr]

Correct. And yes, I think it is an "H" design, but it's really hard to say for sure without cutting it open!!

 

[195910]

Actually Getting one for the Red 6.5 (along with a bunch of new stuff). The original cats were cut off and replaced with mufflers back when it was first imported..but now its rusted through and rattling..wasn't the best of work.

 

[NIGHT RAIDER]

you r right but in my case the mustang was automatic not manual,and i do the race 3 times,the 500e500 if its full maintaine its really astrong fast car,i do many races no body catch me or run behind me only infinity g37s coupe manual with some modifications,one day i will try with c63 but not from zero.

 

[gsxr]

you r right but in my case the mustang was automatic not manual,and i do the race 3 times,the 500e500 if its full maintaine its really astrong fast car....

Ah, got it, thanks for clarifying! Are you sure the Mustang was the 420hp version...? I'd expect that to be roughly on par with an E60, but not a stock 500E. But as Jelmer said, a win is a win!

 

[500AMM]

RENNtech still makes the sway bar?

I believe so, yes... at least someone bought a new one from them a couple years ago. It's 32mm, btw, and $600 plus S&H.

" It's 32mm, btw, and $600 plus S&H."

is the 32 mm constant between the middle 2 bushings? I thought Uncle Gerry was going to make a special run of bars sometime. WOW- $600- I didn't think you could get anything out of Renntech that cheap.

Michael

Well, I inquired RENNtech for a swaybar 2-3 months ago but they have still not answered. So, I don't know whether they deliver or not. How long is it since Dean ordered his?

 

[gsxr]

It's been several years. I would have sworn that someone else bought one since then. Part of the problem might be if you are inquiring about shipping overseas. You may want to email them and ask for price & availability, without mentioning where you live, or a shipping destination.

 

[500AMM]

It's been several years. I would have sworn that someone else bought one since then. Part of the problem might be if you are inquiring about shipping overseas. You may want to email them and ask for price & availability, without mentioning where you live, or a shipping destination.

Yes, you're probably right. I'll contact them again.

 

[500AMM]

Remus and Eisenmann may still offer a 500E-specific muffler. RENNtech does not. No aftermarket muffler will provide a power gain. Same for adding a Y-pipe in place of the middle muffler, that will shed ~15 lbs and sound nice, but it doesn't make any power. Ditto for the cats. The stock exhaust is oversized for the 5.0L engine. Aftermarket 500E mufflers are for looks and sound, not power.

There is basically nothing you can do for a 'tune' on these older engine management systems. If you buy a 1992 model, there really is nothing available, period. If you buy a 1993-94 model, you can install a 1992 LH (engine computer) module and this will give you approx 10hp gain at full throttle. That's it.

There is very, very little you can do to get more power from the 500E/E500 without installing NOS, forced induction, or a 6.0L engine. You can however make chassis modifications such as larger brakes (Silver Arrow setup), larger front sway bar (RENNtech, $600), wider wheels/tires, etc.

I like to add some supporting thoughts on exhaust mods. Making a optimized exhaust system is a complex task. We are talking about advanced thermodynamics on a high level, which again depends on exact known data on the specific engine. That data is not comparable between different engine types and brands.

We had another discussion going here some time ago about exhaust systems. I remember Christian did some good research on that too, and along with your testing Dave, it seems like the standard exhaust is quite sufficient for the M119 in the 036. This seems to be both for regular driving and drag racing, as you and some others here have done. I haven't seen any numbers from JONO, who do track racing, right? And which exhaust mods he uses.

I think we have to see all exhaust mods like down tube headers and exh.systems, in a much smaller perspective. The big gains from such mods is mainly appointed to race engines. Those engines fights at high temps and high loads, they need to get rid of temp build-up, and they need to balance the combustion and breathing characteristics on high revs and squeeze out the last percentage available. If this was done on a M119 too, I'm sure we'd see a noticable difference with an optimized exhaust system. But then we talk more about racing performance where the exhaust system counts as a part in the calculations.

Once I had a very interesting discussion with a motorbike mechanic, educated especially in tuning motorbike engines. I learned; the smaller the engine volume is - and the higher the tuning is - the more does the exhaust system counts in. So what are we talking about on the M119 - a big volume and no additional tuning - so how could it be possible to get any noticable/big gain from only exhaust mods alone then??

So, modifying the exhaust from the headers and back gives a nice sound and weight savings, that's fine of course. The only benefit I see from down tube headers is to get rid of some heat build-up in the engine bay. A small benefit from that again could be that the engine runs cheaper - who knows.. So, besides from these few factors it is mostly wasted money and no big gains. However it is nice to discuss and consider exhaust mods of course.

 

[szvook]

I'm runnig an X pipe and although I didn't dyno my car, I did notice a slight pep in the car's speed. http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/12343/car_parts/exhaust_x_pipes_for_more_power.html

 

[Jelmer]

I'm runnig an X pipe and although I didn't dyno my car, I did notice a slight pep in the car's speed. http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/12343/car_parts/exhaust_x_pipes_for_more_power.html

Would be great to get figures about your noticed increased speed....
(No, I'm not doubting your statement, I'm just really curious what the EXACT improvement would be).

 

[500AMM]

I'm runnig an X pipe and although I didn't dyno my car, I did notice a slight pep in the car's speed. http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/12343/car_parts/exhaust_x_pipes_for_more_power.html

Sure you did, Steve, and probably from bottom on and up in the mid range?

It is a difference, but it's no BIG gains as many hope they'll get. If the exhaust flow is reliefed a bit, then it's important to follow up with less restriction on the inlet side like free flow air filters, other filter box etc... Hopefully do the LH compensate for that minor increase in flow and you get some better response in the bottom and push in the mid range.

If I get time I'll add some formulas for calculation of exhaust systems to motorbikes. Could be used for a rough consideration, however, it is based on specific and measured data in the engine.

Ciao

 

[samiam44]

you r right but in my case the mustang was automatic not manual,and i do the race 3 times,the 500e500 if its full maintaine its really astrong fast car,i do many races no body catch me or run behind me only infinity g37s coupe manual with some modifications,one day i will try with c63 but not from zero.

Interesting in deed- the auto's are faster than the manual. If it is a 5.0 liter and not the 4.6, it should hit 1/4 in 110 which is 10 mph faster than the 500e500. I believe above 100 mph, the 500e500 is faster as it has a smaller frontal area and nearly the same drag coefficient. So, you should take him 100-150 mph. Car and driver's comment is the mustang was aerodynamically limited to about 155 mph.



Michael

 

[szvook]

The increase in performance is slight, maybe 6-8hp, but I do feel it – from steady 1500 rpm, the car surges ahead with a bit more eagerness then before my cat-back exhaust went on, same results at freeway speeds. At the track’s, I really haven’t paid much attention to the exhaust’s performance. From a dead still, my FGS valve body interferes with what the cat-back exhaust is doing…all I know, in first gear car pulls quite hard.

I’m pretty good at picking up even the slightest changes from the time I got the car and up to now. There will be more butt-dyno testing when I get long tube headers and 100 cell cats added to the car in a few months, so I’ll truly have a dual exhaust from the headers down vs. a dual exhaust set up from the OEM cats down. For best results for a V8 engine, a dual exhaust is preferred.

If I had time to dyno my car, I might try to measure every mod I could, but I just don’t have the time. That and I’m not a purist like some of you are, so to me my butt-dyno is good enough – if anything, once the ¼ mile drags are back, I'll just have my time slips tell the story. So far, my ¼ mile time slips have been low and that’s for a car in full trim with wider wheels/tires (more drag), heavier brakes (Sliver Arrow front and rear), 30lbs of added weight in a form of a sub-woofer in the trunk and the spare wheel/tire. When I broke 14 seconds, my gas tank was exactly ¼ full – so I would say my car is getting a few ponies out of the cat-back exhaust to put up those ¼ mile ET times.

 

[Jelmer]

I don't think this is about being a purist or not. Having dyno numbers from your car can help other people make up their mind if they want to invest money in a modified exhaust system or not.

Too bad about the lack of time, hopefully one day you'll be able to make it

 

[szvook]

I don't think this is about being a purist or not. Having dyno numbers from your car can help other people make up their mind if they want to invest money in a modified exhaust system or not.

Yeah, I know.

Too bad about the lack of time, hopefully one day you'll be able to make it

I wish, even trying to make time for the track nowadays (or to see my girly) is tough to come by...too much work.

 

[Jimbo]

Eisenmann still will make you a 500E rear exhaust...you just have to pay for it up front as they are made to order; and crazy expensive (IMO).

Like the Brabus , RennTECH, & Remus cans , for example,...they fit/look best when there is a cut-out in the bumper cover for the tips (some folks might not like the idea of that) Otherwise they have to be angled downward to clear the plastic out back and that ends up looking kinda cheap (again , IMO)

Truth is, as real world test here have shown, the factory engineers did an excellent job on the .036's exhaust. There's just not much room for improvement (in a street application at least)

 

[gsxr]

FWIW... the Remus fits perfect without cutting the rear bumper. I have one on my '94. Dunno about the others. Someone asked Remus for a quote, IIRC they said minimum order of 10 at $1300 each, but I think that included free shipping, woo-hoo!